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Hey, I was called "Blaze-jay" every which way at PaizoCon! You should be able to put up with a little giggling! :)And as far as "proof is in the pudding," I direct you to this link
And to all you snickerers at the Paizo banquet who thought I mispronounced "Bestiary" because I didn't say it like "BEAST-e-airy," I direct you to this link.
Be sure to click the little speaker. :)
I've always thought it Central/Eastern European kind of thing, something like "Blah-zezj"...
I was very pleased at the PaizoCon banquet when Jason Bulmahn held up the actual printed copy and everyone gasped at the sheer size of it.
I heard two people at the table behind me say "Holy s*%!, I thought it would be a ripoff but look how huge it is! I am totally getting that!"
Isn't the 'Pathfinder Core Rules' basically the PHB and DMG smashed into one book? Unless you plan on mimicing WotC and putting out 3, 600 page books for every single core book, the size is actually appropriate. Some folks are easily impressed I suppose.
All you need for an example of this is the (minor) uproar surrounding the race lineup. The one in the Beta was among the most controversial elements in that book, with far more people saying they disliked it than liked it. We sort of agreed, so we got a new piece by Steve Prescott that better fit our (and likely your) expectations for that kind of a piece.
So now, of course, people are coming out of the woodwork complaining about the NEW art because they preferred the old.
Hey now! I was a supporter... uh, bad choice of words... I liked the old race line-up and made it known. Especially the Dwarf, but the rest of the slackers out there just let it sssslllliiiddddeeee on by laying in their hammocks with their margaritas on the beach... passing the damn day away. Damn woodworkers, need a union or some crap to unite them in the future!
Like, for example, how bad Star Trek Voyager sucks.
LOL! Hopefully you weren't looking for an arguement. >.>
You misread me, MDT. I would consider "high hundreds" depressingly low at this point. I am not depressed in the slightest.
WOOHOO! SO we're into the thousands? Hot dog!
<Notes he has never been involved in the publishing business, so is pulling numbers out of a nether region> :)
Yes, they confirmed almost all of it will be OGL (except some proper names and the deities).Will there be a free SRD for PFRPG once the book comes out?
That is about the only way I am going to bother looking it over (well that and paging through it in a book store while waiting on my wife).
Artwork definitely is not going to sell me on it.
Thank you, that wasn't exactly what I was asking (a free SRD would indicate OGL, OGL doesn't necessarily imply that a free SRD will be available), but Erik did say that he expected that a fan would set one up fairly quickly so, I just look at that. Thanks.
Not sure if you guys saw the Paizocon announcement, but the subscription will be going live very shortly, very probably by the end of this week.
And another WOOHOO for you. You should collect those things. :)
Already pre-ordered main book and beastiary, waiting for the subscription so I can switch those pre-orders over. Then I'll be pre-ordering a second base book so I have two for passing around at the table. My players are kind of money hungry atm. I'm sure they'll scrimp and save for a core book as they can, once we switch.
Already pre-ordered main book and beastiary, waiting for the subscription so I can switch those pre-orders over.As I understand it the subscription will do this automatically.
*nod*
But I want my subscription discount on the second one. :)
So you get to talk s*#~ about Paizo, but can't take a little good natured ribbing?
And this is exactly the kind of professional response I have come to expect from the Paizo staff to a paying customer (just not a PFRPG fanboy).
Let's see, I suggest I am not going to purchase the item and then decide if it is worth paying for, and you make a personal attack on me. You are right, you were acting totally professional in that situation and I am the one out of line. I apologize to you for stepping out of line.
Thank you again for your generous endorsement of the game! I am really shocked! You've always seemed like such a grumpus up until now.Damn you Eric Mona! That's some funny stuff.
I was getting ready to ping him for 1 damage, but that's a Wumpus.
Like, for example, how bad Star Trek Voyager sucks.
But we don't agree on this. (It was "light years" better then Enterprise.)
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Let's see, I suggest I am not going to purchase the item and then decide if it is worth paying for, and you make a personal attack on me. You are right, you were acting totally professional in that situation and I am the one out of line. I apologize to you for stepping out of line.
No, you dismiss the art and say that you might "bother" to look at it if it's free online. This after months of frankly pretty cranky posts and all-around grumpusness, and then you fall to the ground like a soccer player faking a foul when I push back a little.
But thanks for the apology. It is much appreciated.
I've always thought it Central/Eastern European kind of thing, something like "Blah-zezj"...Hey, I was called "Blaze-jay" every which way at PaizoCon! You should be able to put up with a little giggling! :)And as far as "proof is in the pudding," I direct you to this link
And to all you snickerers at the Paizo banquet who thought I mispronounced "Bestiary" because I didn't say it like "BEAST-e-airy," I direct you to this link.
Be sure to click the little speaker. :)
Maybe the "J" is silent... "Blazay" - feeling lazy and unmotivated. A warcry used before kicking someone in the nuts.
Let's see, I suggest I am not going to purchase the item and then decide if it is worth paying for, and you make a personal attack on me. You are right, you were acting totally professional in that situation and I am the one out of line. I apologize to you for stepping out of line.No, you dismiss the art and say that you might "bother" to look at it if it's free online. This after months of frankly pretty cranky posts and all-around grumpusness, and then you fall to the ground like a soccer player faking a foul when I push back a little.
But thanks for the apology. It is much appreciated.
Sorry I have not lived up to your expectations of me.
All you need for an example of this is the (minor) uproar surrounding the race lineup. The one in the Beta was among the most controversial elements in that book, with far more people saying they disliked it than liked it. We sort of agreed, so we got a new piece by Steve Prescott that better fit our (and likely your) expectations for that kind of a piece.
Exactly!
If there had been another phase/round of the Beta (and I am not even suggesting it was viable, since I know it wasn't with your deadline) those who liked the way things were in the Beta could have spoken up and been heard.
I am not deluded enough to think anything would change, but we would have had a chance to rally for some of the Beta changes.
Unnecessary anecdote
Too bad that by the time I found out how great they were, the torches and pitchforks were already handed out.
I wonder where the preachers of patience and "wait and see" were then?
I wonder where the preachers of patience and “wait and see” were then?
...laying in their hammocks with their margaritas on the beach... passing the damn day away. Slacking woodworkers I tell you!
Or pinging their Wumpus', but that just doesn't sound right.
I wonder where the preachers of patience and “wait and see” were then?...laying in their hammocks with their margaritas on the beach... passing the damn day away. Slacking woodworkers I tell you!
Or pinging their Wumpus', but that just doesn't sound right.
I may be slow... But I am sensing a grudge here... ;-)
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...and then you fall to the ground like a soccer player faking a foul when I push back a little.
ZOMG! You're insulting all the European Pathfinder fans by inserting American-isms into your analogies Mona! I'm so offended I'm just going to take my toys and go pre-order a copy of the PFRPG.
(Yeah, spent way too much time today talking nice to f*@$-wits today. Your candor and ruthless sarcasm is much appreciated, so you get some money.)
...and then you fall to the ground like a soccer player faking a foul when I push back a little.ZOMG! You're insulting all the European Pathfinder fans by inserting American-isms into your analogies Mona! I'm so offended I'm just going to take my toys and go pre-order a copy of the PFRPG.
(Yeah, spent way too much time today talking nice to f*@$-wits today. Your candor and ruthless sarcasm is much appreciated, so you get some money.)
Yup, I'm glad I was able to give him a chance to score some points. Good job.
I may be slow... But I am sensing a grudge here... ;-)
Nah, I'm actually "trying" to be funny and I'm horribly bored at work with no work left and 3 hours to go.
I'll explain, making it less funny, even to me. Erik Mona mentioned folks coming out of the "woodwork" to complain... these are obviously woodworkers and lazy ones, so they need a union to rally them into action!
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The term 'Grumpus' did literally remind me of Magic Cards, but only because the Thrashing 'Wumpus' was one of my favorite cards in multiplayer and my friends would target it exclusively to remove it from the battlefield. At which point you spitefully dump all your mana into it and kill everyone ending the game, muhahaha! Making them all Grumpus. XD
Maybe the "J" is silent... "Blazay" - feeling lazy and unmotivated. A warcry used before kicking someone in the nuts.I've always thought it Central/Eastern European kind of thing, something like "Blah-zezj"...Hey, I was called "Blaze-jay" every which way at PaizoCon! You should be able to put up with a little giggling! :)And as far as "proof is in the pudding," I direct you to this link
And to all you snickerers at the Paizo banquet who thought I mispronounced "Bestiary" because I didn't say it like "BEAST-e-airy," I direct you to this link.
Be sure to click the little speaker. :)
Yes. I pretty much accept most pronounciations [bley-zee, blah-zay] as "correct" if the 'j' is silent.
Although I have not kicked anyone in the nuts.
Core Rulebook and Bestiary pre-ordered. Please have them enscribed "For the love of pres" with an appropriate illustration from Sean.
Scored another! Good job.
I see pathfinder as the bright spot in a dismal RPG market.
If you cant say something good, dont say anything at all. Just my 2 cents.
You assume much with such a simple statement.
Core Rulebook and Bestiary pre-ordered. Please have them enscribed "For the love of pres" with an appropriate illustration from Sean.Scored another! Good job.
I don't know how you're scoring, but I think this is the same one.
I see pathfinder as the bright spot in a dismal RPG market.
If you cant say something good, dont say anything at all. Just my 2 cents.
This i agree with. Had more people followed suit, nothing would have changed from the Beta.
Core Rulebook and Bestiary pre-ordered. Please have them enscribed "For the love of pres" with an appropriate illustration from Sean.Scored another! Good job.I don't know how you're scoring, but I think this is the same one.
This i agree with. Had more people followed suit, nothing would have changed from the Beta.I see pathfinder as the bright spot in a dismal RPG market.
If you cant say something good, dont say anything at all. Just my 2 cents.
Then play beta...its free and u can print out till your sick.
So you get to talk s@@! about Paizo, but can't take a little good natured ribbing?
And this is exactly the kind of professional response I have come to expect from the Paizo staff to a paying customer (just not a PFRPG fanboy).
See now if there were an ignore function...
Then play beta...its free and u can print out till your sick.
Yes, but if one keeps quiet about things you don't like, how are you going to expect it to ever get better for you?
Then play beta...its free and u can print out till your sick.Yes, but if one keeps quiet about things you don't like, how are you going to expect it to ever get better for you?
I think he is saying that you shouldn't expect anything to get better for you. You should either take it or leave it, attempting to influence the direction is out of line.
Then play beta...its free and u can print out till your sick.Yes, but if one keeps quiet about things you don't like, how are you going to expect it to ever get better for you?
If you can do it by either explaining why you don't like it, or, even better, what you would actually prefer, that is the best way to make things better.
As long as it's not:
<SPITTLE>
Oh noes! See now that's why you can't take Badger folk anywhere! You don't see Sahuagin spittling everywhere.
Ok my real biggest disappointment. No photo of Erik, James and the rest of the boys oiled up in under sized speedo's.
*recalls pictures of the people in question*
James? No. Erik? No. Wes & Sutter? ...ok good point. It wouldn't be *all* bad.
Not that the staff don't generally seem like fun and friendly people, of course. Just...must...bleach brain...
Then play beta...its free and u can print out till your sick.Yes, but if one keeps quiet about things you don't like, how are you going to expect it to ever get better for you?
But its all said and done. Now you are just spitting in someones soup. If its not your cup of soup, dont buy it.
Geting on a message board and just saying you don't like a finished product others are looking foward to, and good people have worked hard on, just makes you seem unappreciative and a spoilsport.
Geting on a message board and just saying you don't like a finished product others are looking foward to, and good people have worked hard on, just makes you seem unappreciative and a spoilsport.
So then no one should have spoken up about their disappointment in the Map Folios either...
I'm glad Paizo doesn't necessarily agree with you. They actually have a chance to grow and thrive their way.
And this is exactly the kind of professional response I have come to expect from the Paizo staff to a paying customer (just not a PFRPG fanboy).Will there be a free SRD for PFRPG once the book comes out?
That is about the only way I am going to bother looking it over (well that and paging through it in a book store while waiting on my wife).
Artwork definitely is not going to sell me on it.
Well, I really appreciate you so generously "bothering" to look over the game! Thanks for the show of support, Pres Man! Your free Pathfinder RPG Launch Poster is in the mail!*
There is a free fan-created SRD for the Beta online now, and I imagine a final version will follow very shortly after release. I'm not sure if we will be able to get our own out in time before an enterprising fan sets one up, but I fully expect it to happen soon after the game is released.
Thank you again for your generous endorsement of the game! I am really shocked! You've always seemed like such a grumpus up until now.
--Erik
* Ok, not really.
What other response would you expect?
You demean a product that Paizo has been working on for over a year now (is it two years yet?) by dismissing it down to "paging through it in a book store while waiting on my wife".
Fine, you're entitled to do exactly that if you want. But how should Paizo respond?
Erik has poured his time and energy and creativity into this very product that you demean. What should he do?
1. Defend his product vehemently?
2. Break down in tears?
3. Attack you for crazy opinion?
4. Joke with you and take your offhand dismassal like a grownup?
I can see he chose number 4 (maybe secretly also number 2) but his choice didn't suit you? In fact, it warranted further criticism of how he handled it?
So, please, tell me what "kind of professional response you would expect as a paying customer"?
But its all said and done. Now you are just spitting in someones soup. If its not your cup of soup, dont buy it.
Geting on a message board and just saying you don't like a finished product others are looking foward to, and good people have worked hard on, just makes you seem unappreciative and a spoilsport.
There are things I'm not thrilled about, and things I really like. I've always been very careful to show my appreciation for the work that went into this book, as I know its been considerable.
Paizo listens to its customers, and I'm one of their customers, so I'm going to point out what I like and what I don't. It won't change the PFRPG book coming out in August, but that doesn't mean it won't give Paizo an idea of what direction to take the game in over time.
As long as its done respectfully, I don't think its a reasonable assumption to conclude that dissent equals disrespect. Please don't confuse people that have some legitimate concerns with people that might be prone to nit pick every decision Paizo has made over the last year or so.
Geting on a message board and just saying you don't like a finished product others are looking foward to, and good people have worked hard on, just makes you seem unappreciative and a spoilsport.So then no one should have spoken up about their disappointment in the Map Folios either...
I'm glad Paizo doesn't necessarily agree with you. They actually have a chance to grow and thrive their way.
No just make a informational post.
What I would change in the core, or maybe what my home rules will look Like.
Instead of why I am Disappointed.
If you don't like don't buy it. I hate alot of RPGs. I hate most of the RPGs my wife plays. I keep my mouth shut, those are not for me and were not created with me in mind.
I don't get on there message boards and try to spoil there fun, telling them that the d10 system is flawed or the d6 system is to limited.
I just let people have fun and be as contructive as I can.
What other response would you expect?
From a professional? None I guess.
You demean a product that Paizo has been working on for over a year now (is it two years yet?) by dismissing it down to "paging through it in a book store while waiting on my wife".
So when people say, "Wait till you see it to decide." They mean, "Purchase it, take it home and then decide to see if it is worth it." That seems counter-intuitive to me. I would think that if you want me to look at it before I decide, then you'd want to give me a chance to ... you know ... look at it before I buy it. If there was an SRD, then I could look at that, otherwise I will only have a chance to look at it while my wife is shopping. I am sorry if that fact is upsetting to you, but it is a fact. I don't work in a game store, nor do I spend hours in one, so my ability to look at the rules in depth is limited.
Fine, you're entitled to do exactly that if you want. But how should Paizo respond?
To a paying customer? By being rude, I guess.
Erik has poured his time and energy and creativity into this very product that you demean. What should he do?
1. Defend his product vehemently?
2. Break down in tears?
3. Attack you for crazy opinion?
4. Joke with you and take your offhand dismassal like a grownup?I can see he chose number 4 (maybe secretly also number 2) but his choice didn't suit you? In fact, it warranted further criticism of how he handled it?
Maybe he could have answered my question (will there be a free SRD?) and not infer an attack that was not present. I did not call the artwork crap, I said it was not going to influence my decision (i.e. looking at the rules in a text format was the only thing meaningful). I didn't say PFRPG was crap, I said the only way I was going to take a meaningful look at it (which is what I assume people mean when they say look at it before you decide mean) was if there was a free SRD.
So, please, tell me what "kind of professional response you would expect as a paying customer"?
Take some lessons from Lisa. I have never seen her try to score points by belittling her customers.
Will there be a free SRD for PFRPG once the book comes out?
That is about the only way I am going to bother looking it over (well that and paging through it in a book store while waiting on my wife).
Artwork definitely is not going to sell me on it.
I suspect the best way to get your request filled is to do exactly what you postulated here, to judge the product on its own merits, as it appeals to your gaming sensibilities (so to speak). Paizo is under no specific obligation to release a $50 book as a free downloadable PDF. That would be the same thing as asking any other game company to release their equivalents of the core rules for their game systems as free PDFs just so you can be bothered to take a look at their product.
I suspect the best way to get your request filled is to do exactly what you postulated here, to judge the product on its own merits, as it appeals to your gaming sensibilities (so to speak). Paizo is under no specific obligation to release a $50 book as a free downloadable PDF. That would be the same thing as asking any other game company to release their equivalents of the core rules for their game systems as free PDFs just so you can be bothered to take a look at their product.Will there be a free SRD for PFRPG once the book comes out?
That is about the only way I am going to bother looking it over (well that and paging through it in a book store while waiting on my wife).
Artwork definitely is not going to sell me on it.
Absolutely. I didn't have any expectation, I was just seeking information. People were suggesting to take a look at it before deciding, I was just stating that was much more likely to happen for myself if an SRD was available (much like the d20 SRD) as my time is limited in book stores/game stores.
Admittedly, this may be an unpopular sentiment to express within the context of this thread, but I think the Paizo staff have handled this spectacularly so far.
The whole "I'll flip through this in a bookstore or wait for the SRD" is tantamount to going to a computer game forum and telling the staff "Meh, I'll Torrent it." The latter act will get you banned by a faceless moderator faster than a pre-schooler on a sugar rush can break stuff.
Instead, Erik actually bothers to answer the query and is greeted with more cynicism and hostility stemming from a sense of entitlement granted from a 'paying customer' who has so far indicated his preference NOT to pay for the product.
Regardless of original intent of the poster, I can't see any way in which his post could be construed as a request rather than a bash.
Buzz Aldrin punched a heckler for less...
...from a 'paying customer' who has so far indicated his preference NOT to pay for the product.
You do realize that Paizo is an online store as well as an RPG maker, correct? One can be a customer of the online store without being a customer of their in house RPG, correct?
If that was your original intention, then yeah. I'll admit I jumped to conclusions and concede that point
Regardless, I still stand by my point that one is liable to get a better response while being less acerbic.
I have heard "You draw more flies with honey than with vinegar."
While this may be true, you definitely draw more flies with a big old steaming pile of poo-doo.
Oh, wait, this isn't helping...
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Director of Game Design
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Alright folks.. lets all just take a breather here.
I can certainly understand that some folks have taken a liking to some of the rules in the Beta and do not want to see them changed. I can truly understand that. Take it from the guy who deemed it necessary to change them. It was not always easy.
That said, I kinda feel like the whole "its going to be closer to 3.5 than the Beta" mantra here is a bit overplayed. There are some things we rolled back... a bit. Take the rage points for example (just because they were recently mentioned). We did roll these back... a bit. If you were an active part of the playtest, you saw that system. Now, you might claim that we were responding to folks that complained without considering the silent folks that liked the new system, but you would be mistaken. The compromise we came up with was long considered and in the end, it makes for a smoother system, with less paperwork. You still have rage powers, you can still rage more than once per day, even at first level, but there is a little less math involved, which is a plus in a game as complicated as this.
That said, I can understand that the game has taken some turns that some folks might not like. That is only natural. When this was still in playtest, the final game was a nebulous thing, something that everyone could imagine as the game they wanted it to be. While we worked really hard to ensure that this game appeals to as many folks as possible, I think we all knew that having it appeal to everyone was just about impossible.
So, when we say "give us a chance, take a look at the final rules", that is not a cop out. We are not demanding that you buy the final book just to find out if you might like it. Feel free to read reviews, check it out at your FLGS, keep an eye on our previews. I know that personally I would hope that the game is more than the sum of its parts, which is all we can show right now. Parts. Some of those parts might not suit you as a individual piece, but I believe that the final game works rather well with these individual components working together. That does not mean you can't change things, but it does mean that it can be a little hard to judge without the whole picture.
Of course.. you might disagree, and that is certainly your prerogative. Lets just keep things civil here for a bit. The paladin preview goes up in a few hours and it is sure to tantalize.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Probably because you didn't have to pay for all the art, editing, development, layout, printing, shipping, and distribution.But hey, every viewpoint is important!
I'm not saying you had an easy job of it. Nor that the staff of Paizo did not work their hearts out to release a good product. I know you have worked hard. Yet comparing a new rpg to an old existing one with new rules and don't kid yourselves. Call it what you want PF, 3.75 whatever it still will be seen as a houseruled 3.5. Is not the best comparison.
Nor do I think that the fans on rpg.net should just be discounted out of hand. As I said before don't just go by what is posted on this site. Being the Paizo forums it's going to be overwhlemingly positive. Discounting what is being said becuase it's mostly negative is a mistake. Who knows maybe some might change their minds and buy PF. I have seen too many companies just hear the praise and ignore everything else. It's not as if you can pretend that their is nothing else on the internet besides the Paizo forums.
While i understand that it's never good to read something negative about something you like well all I can say on that is suck it up. Not everyone likes PF or will be satisfied with PF. Demanding no expecting to see only positive stuff is not going to happen and imo is rude. Acting like nothing bad can be said makes some on the board come across as sterotypical fanboys. Do you think that type of behavior encourages new people to come to the boards. It has the opposite effect. I sure as hell have no intention of posting only positive stuff because anything negative said offends some on the board. I would be lying to myself if I did so. If you can't handle negativity ignore the thread and move on. I don't post in every thread that bothers me in some way.
The third paragraph is not directed at you Erik you have handled yourself with class.