Heart of Oblivion
Aura Strong abjuration; CL 15th
Slot necklace; Price 82.000 gp
DESCRIPTION
While the origin of the first Heart of Oblivion is unknown, those who have tasted of its powers swear these items are part of the Abyss itself. A Heart of Oblivion looks like a leather string holding an egg-sized raw stone so black not even light escapes it. At close examination one may notice within what seem like phantom glyphs swimming in liquid blackness.
A Heart of Oblivion allows the user to emulate the effects of Greater Dispel Magic. But the Heart is thirsty. It feeds on life. Each time it is activated, the user must make a Fortitude check DC 20 or take a number of negative levels equal to the target spell level. If the user succeeds, a random victim up to 30 feet away must make the check or suffers the drain. If either the victim saves or perishes before paying the full drain, another random victim is targeted and so on until the cost is met. Otherwise, the dispel fails. Negative level works as per the Enervation spell.
CREATION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Greater Dispel Magic, Enervation
Cost 41.000 gp
This is a great item for your undead lich to give to his buddy minion ... undead are immune to enervation. And if the minion makes his save, the enervation might actually affect the lich's enemies!
Item doesn't say uses per day, based on the cost (1/2 of unlimited use price, I'm assuming the discount is for the negative level penalty) I'm assuming it has no daily limit.
To open for abuse, unclear in its description.
Reject.
Oh me likey!!!!!
This is a great item exactly for the reasons that Sean calls abuse. I call that great use of a cool item!
This is nasty. And it is supposed to be! At about 80k it is approximately the cost of a crystal ball, a well of the worlds or an apparatus of kwal... er, of the crab.
Keep, keep, keep!
(I still wish they would have cut that first sentence. It isnt needed)
Wolfie?
Guys, I really like this one too. Could we please put it in the keep folder for now. I mean, I might golden ticket this item. Seriously, I like it that much.
Kobold Press
|
I like the "thirsty item" premise here, but think it's a bit overwrought in the first paragraph. And Sean's right, there's potential for abuse written all over it.
But what the heck Clark, put it with the keepers for now. I think this designer might blossom, or might fall apart completely in a splatter of purple prose and weird mechanics.
Too soon to tell.
Kept.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Congratulations on making it into RPG Superstar 2009!
The descriptive text is a bit overwrought, but it has a good sound to it anyway. I kind of like it. Besides, my item last year was liquid blackness, so I think I'm honor-bound to give you a thumbs up for having this year's turgid ebon effluvium item.
I like the item concept. It's fun, sinister, and has a sort of literate "yes, I will work for you, but I demand payment" motif that is really kind of cool and hard to pull off well in D&D. What I don't like, and I guess I'm with Sean and Wolf on this one, is this little sentence right here:
Each time it is activated, the user must make a Fortitude check DC 20 or take a number of negative levels equal to the target spell level.
Let me give you an example of the problem with this mechanic.
I just got finished playing the Savage Tide Adventure Path. Due to various high-level preparatory spells (things like mind blank, heroes' feast, status, freedom of movement, death ward, spell turning, moment of prescience, veil, foresight, and the like, not including short-duration spells in the midst of combat, I could easily have had 50+ LEVELS of spells going at any given time.
Greater dispel magic doesn't just target one spell. It CAN (typically if you want to dispel a specific effect that is targeting multiple creatures). When targeted on a creature, it targets ALL of their spell effects. Using this orb, Mr. BBEG targets my character with a GDM and, say, dispels about half of my spells (and let's say for the sake of argument that, knowing the item's properties, he's immune to energy drain by virtue of death ward, being undead, or some other cheat). He now gets to not only cast a high-level GDM out of the item, he also gets to enjoy the mayhem as the item dishes out around 25 NEGATIVE LEVELS to creatures nearby. Heck, if he rolls well it could be FIFTY. Even if he rolls poorly, he probably gets 10-15 negative levels flying around.
If a nearby target saves, the effect just keeps bouncing around from save to save until SOMEBODY gets drained a big pile of negative levels or you eventually run out of potential victims. Sure, the bad guy could in theory endanger his own mooks, but he's probably either: (a) so evil he doesn't care; (b) already undead and so are his minions (or constructs); or (c) used magic to render his minions immune to energy drains.
There is a tipping point - characters get more and more spell levels on them on a regular basis at higher levels, but you go past 15th level casters and the GDM becomes less effective. Still, it seems like the intending balancing mechanism is easily not just circumvented, but redirected into a weapon that is far more powerful than the stated "primary" power of the orb (kind of like the withering hourglass).
You throw a BBEG with this item against the party around that 14th-level spot near the end of an AP, and it's like Jelerak's delayed blast reverberating chain energy drain swarm, with a little GDM cherry on top.
Summary: I do like the idea, but this thing might be too cheap at twice the price. Really, I could see this more as an artifact, but a wondrous item? I dunno. Don't think about items you design just as "how might a typical PC use this," but "how COULD my evil villain use this," because you might get very different answers.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
|
Aye, but here's the rub - and this is why I like the item so darn much:
The DC to save against that energy drain is only 20. And someone HAS to pay it, or the greater dispel magic auto-fails.
If everyone in the room (that is, within 30 ft. of the caster) is undead, death warded, otherwise immune to negative levels or able to crack a DC:20 Fort. save, well ... this item is just a useless hunk of black rock.
The big question for the user is this: is it worth it to me to RISK losing the effect, once the negative levels start bouncing around the room and other people get to make the save, or am I willing to eat all of that energy drain just to cut my enemy's spells?
The user could voluntarily fail the save ... or, I suppose, command a minion to voluntarily fail THEIR save (although I don't know any employer I'm loyal enough to give up 15+ levels for) ... but once the thirsty effect has cut loose around the caster, there's no guarantee that it will find a victim.
Funny enough, even though greater dispel magic has a Medium range (that works out to 250 ft. at CL 15 for this item), it simply can't be used at that distance by an solitary undead - and the lich or death knight in question can't reliably pour negative levels into a single living minion, because ALL of the levels have to be paid for. Sure, the vampire could sacrifice ten of his 1st-level mooks, but the dispel might fail anyway, if the total number of spell-levels dispelled kicks past 11.
The minions, might I note, are still dead.
This a great item - as far as I'm concerned, it's the most elegant build for a complex effect that I've so far seen in the competition. The fact that it's also a very COOL effect is just icing.
Very well done, and I look forward to seeing more as Superstar! continues!
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Aye, but here's the rub - and this is why I like the item so darn much:
The DC to save against that energy drain is only 20. And someone HAS to pay it, or the greater dispel magic auto-fails.
If everyone in the room (that is, within 30 ft. of the caster) is undead, death warded, otherwise immune to negative levels or able to crack a DC:20 Fort. save, well ... this item is just a useless hunk of black rock.
It's true. I think my point was more that the side effect (level draining) ends up overshadowing the primary effect (dispelling). It's more like: "This is my orb of energy draining, and when I energy drain a bunch of people then I also get to dispel spells on this guy over here! Muahahaaahahahaaaaa." Maybe I'm reading too much into the idea of dispelling being the main goal. The fact that it's the initial step doesn't necessarily have to mean it's the primary step.
The big question for the user is this: is it worth it to me to RISK losing the effect, once the negative levels start bouncing around the room and other people get to make the save, or am I willing to eat all of that energy drain just to cut my enemy's spells?
The user could voluntarily fail the save ... or, I suppose, command a minion to voluntarily fail THEIR save (although I don't know any employer I'm loyal enough to give up 15+ levels for) ... but once the thirsty effect has cut loose around the caster, there's no guarantee that it will find a victim.
Funny enough, even though greater dispel magic has a Medium range (that works out to 250 ft. at CL 15 for this item), it simply can't be used at that distance by an solitary undead - and the lich or death knight in question can't reliably pour negative levels into a single living minion, because ALL of the levels have to be paid for. Sure, the vampire could sacrifice ten of his 1st-level mooks, but the dispel might fail anyway, if the total number of spell-levels dispelled kicks past 11.
I just had a thought as I read your comment that makes my head hurt.
What happens to the dispelled spells if you only end up draining enough levels to partially cover the total number?
1. You activate the orb.
2. You dispel, say, 20 levels worth of spells (a 6th, a 4th, 2 3rds, 2 2nds).
3. 20 levels worth of potential draining bounce around the room.
4. Most people save or are immune, but two minotaurs (6 HD each) fail their saves, so you use up 12 levels of draining.
QUESTION: Which spells get dispelled? Since you don't have enough draining to power all of the dispels but you do have enough to get some, how do you determine which get zapped and which don't?
a. Lowest to highest, partial dispel = no dispel (like how a sleep spell works)?
b. Does the whole thing fail if you don't get enough draining to power all of it (which was your example)?
c. Some other idea?
It's a neat effect, but very sticky to implement as written.
The minions, might I note, are still dead.
In the immortal words of Xykon: "Sacrificing minions; is there anything it CAN'T do?" :)
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
|
My read that you HAVE to meet the cost, or all of the dispel auto-fails.
This is, the more I think about it, a GREAT item ... because we're still talking about & rolling it around in our heads, the way I used to do with my friends in High School when we'd come across something unique and awesome in a new book or supplement.
Well done!
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
My read that you HAVE to meet the cost, or all of the dispel auto-fails.
This is, the more I think about it, a GREAT item ... because we're still talking about & rolling it around in our heads, the way I used to do with my friends in High School when we'd come across something unique and awesome in a new book or supplement.
Well done!
Fair point, bro.
I still say artifact, but the fact that it generates enough conversation makes it memorable, and not just for wackiness, and that's good enough to take a place and move on up!
aka Robert G. McCreary
|
Lots of discussion from my fellow guest-judges, and I'll admit my head hurts a little bit now from trying to figure this thing out.
Good evocative name at the start, but ACK! No backstory needed! Interesting item, but I'm not really feeling it. It could certainly be abused with no daily limits or anything. And Jason makes a good point about the number of spell levels available to be dispelled. I, too, think this might be better artifact material. And it seems like we have two extremes - WAY powerful, or completely useless. I'm not sure that's good design.
A few words on your language: I don't know if you're a native speaker or not. But I'm a English language teacher and I'm seeing a few things that point to a non-native speaker. That's not a problem of course - Christine, our first RPG Superstar isn't a native speaker and she won! If you are a native speaker, then be careful. Either way, I think you're going to need to improve your language (and/or writing skills) to go farther in this thing.
Regardless, Congratulations on joining the ranks of RPG Superstar! I'll be interested to see what you come up with in the following rounds.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar
aka Leandra Christine Schneider
|
I read that item a little differently because of the “[..]to the target spell level[..]” part. I understand that the dispel might targets only a single spell (as a targeted dispel not directed at the person)
Targeted Dispel
One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell.
If that is true, it would solve many of the problems we read into the item and ultimately make it more worthwhile in my opinion.
By the way, I think its super that the negative levels don't have a chance to get permanent in case they don’t outright annihilate you.Positive:
Payment effects are always difficult to balance because two variables have to be adjudicated. You linked negative levels to spell-levels which is a neat way to do that in this case.
Negative:
As shown in the discussion above, there are a lot of things unclear with this item.
After reviewing all other items:
I will be obstinate and assume this thing works as I’ve read into it. That way it doesn’t have as many issues to bury itself and I can have a clear conscience when I say that I enjoy this item. I am a little unsure how it places itself in the field, but I wish to see more of you in the RPG Superstar!
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
I read that item a little differently because of the “[..]to the target spell level[..]” part. I understand that the dispel might targets only a single spell (as a targeted dispel not directed at the person)
If that is true, it would solve many of the problems we read into the item and ultimately make it more worthwhile in my opinion.Targeted Dispel
One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell.
You know, I would agree that this would make the item a much better fit if it were stipulated that you could ONLY use the GDM power to target a single spell. That way, we get around the kinds of mega-negative-levels I described above. The most you could possibly get would be 9 (which is, of course, A BUNCH of negative levels), but if you're targeting a 9th level spell your chance to succeed at dispelling it won't be that good in the first place - the item is only CL15, and you'd be going against a minimum of CL17.
That might be the simple fix right there. Limit the item to GDM vs. one spell and a lot of the weirdness disappears (well, at least it gets smaller and more manageable).
Contributor
,
Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
|
Cool item! This is definitely something that could work well on both sides of the DM screen. The only concern I would have is the "bounce the level drain from person to person" idea. That could become tedious with large groups where everyone happens to save.
Congratulations!
I'm torn on this one ... I like the feel and flavor of it, and I cringe at the amount of potential dice rolling only to maybe have to tell a player, "Sorry, we ran out of victims, er, targets in range, and the Heart didn't get enough to finish feeding ... so even though your party took a good hit on levels, the spell isn't dispelled." I can see player linchings over one of these toys.
Now, as an item in the hands of the undead nasty they're facing, that I can see ... but then how would the party ever sell this sucker if they survived it?
I just don't know ...
If the user succeeds, a random victim up to 30 feet away must make the check or suffers the drain. If either the victim saves or perishes before paying the full drain, another random victim is targeted and so on until the cost is met. /QUOTE
First, let me say congrats on advancing. Then, permit me to add that this is my second post to the message boards (my item was the first), and I just discovered the BBCode tags. I'm still working out how to use them and hope the "quote" function works.
Now, to the "Heart" of the matter. Not to confuse the issue further, but is this...
30 feet from the target of the dispel,
30 feet from the Heart's owner, or
30 feet from the last victim to make his save?
Very cool idea, but as it's written this might be a difficult item to DM.
I was going to wait untill I read all the items before commenting, but I couldn't resist commenting right away on this one.
Again, congrats.
Congratulations! One thing to think about with your future submissions is its impact on high level play. Dispels already slow high level play to a crawl as it is. This adds an additional delay on top of that. I second Jason's concerns about the instant death effect of this item at high level play.
OK, the "quote" didnt work.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
,
Dedicated Voter Season 6
|
If I saw this as written in a magic item book, I'd be fairly unhappy with it - it's just too hard to figure out with the text as written. We can see that with several industry pros and freelancers struggling over just what it is supposed to do. It may just be too complex for the word count limit.
I agree it's basically a level draining orb with a dispel magic component, but that does make it a really fun evil undead boss toy. Or even something to give to a quivering minion.
I'll be interested in seeing what's next from this author. There's certainly a lot of imagination at play here.
|
Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7
|
Heart of Oblivion
Aura Strong abjuration; CL 15th
Slot necklace; Price 82.000 gp
DESCRIPTION
While the origin of the first Heart of Oblivion is unknown, those who have tasted of its powers swear these items are part of the Abyss itself. A Heart of Oblivion looks like a leather string holding an egg-sized raw stone so black not even light escapes it. At close examination one may notice within what seem like phantom glyphs swimming in liquid blackness.
A Heart of Oblivion allows the user to emulate the effects of Greater Dispel Magic. But the Heart is thirsty. It feeds on life. Each time it is activated, the user must make a Fortitude check DC 20 or take a number of negative levels equal to the target spell level. If the user succeeds, a random victim up to 30 feet away must make the check or suffers the drain. If either the victim saves or perishes before paying the full drain, another random victim is targeted and so on until the cost is met. Otherwise, the dispel fails. Negative level works as per the Enervation spell.
CREATION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Greater Dispel Magic, Enervation
Cost 41.000 gp
Wouldn't Circle of Death be a better pre-req for this?
Overwritten. Unclear mechanics.
But...
When I got to:
"If the user succeeds, a random victim up to 30 feet away must make the check or suffers the drain."
I COLed (cackled out loud).
The concept of the mechanic is classic.
Tier 1.5 for me.
First, thanks for the chance, everyone. It's great to see everyone here going over the rules, discussing how it work. Yes, it means it is not as clear as it should, but it also shows people care enough to argue about it ;)
About the discussion itself, I first imagined it in one way, but, following your discussion, there is margin for a variant. Say, a minor artifact version.
What I planned was as Christine describes: one spell is targeted. In this way, it would drain at most 9 levels per use.
BUT it would be an interesting (and more powerful) variant that dispelled everything, consuming the lives of everyone around. Though at a higher gp cost.
Also, Boomer is correct on his assumption that all level cost must be paid for. Again, in the original idea, that means at most 'only' 9 levels. In the minor artifact version, it would need an extra line which explains that it 'kills' spells from the lowest to the highest, the other way around or user's choise.
Rob, yes, I'm not native. Im Brazilian and, while I have a good vocabulary (thanks to years of RPG books and SSI gaming, seriously), my grammar is far from perfect. I'll make sure to work on that!
Taig, the bouncing effect was a concern to me too while I designed the item, so I limited it to 30 feet radius. In actual combat (and considering a hex/square grid), there usually isn't that many creatures in said area.
Xaaon, while a Circle of Death would make sense while thinking of concept (a burst spell that drains life around you), the actual effect of the Heart's drain is not the same. It would be like the Heart casts Enervation randomly as free action until the 'charges' are paid for in lifeforce, not a burst of necromantic energy that may instantly slay the living.
What came to mind while writing this was the possibilities of heroic sacrifice, heckless use by someone who did not know/care/understand the price and, of course, its use in the hands of a great villain.
Now, back to working on my villain ;)
To be honest, I wanted to stop reading the Heart of Oblivion when I got to "tasted of its powers". While such prose has a place in fantasy writing, I think magic item descriptions deserve something a bit less flavorful.
On top of being a bit overblown, the writing is a bit too conversational to appeal to me.
The actual item itself has both utility and flavor. I know where this item comes from, I know why it exists in the game world. That puts it above most of the finalist items so far.
The mechanics aren't well thought out however. Greater Dispel Magic has a couple of different ways it can be used, and only rarely is it used to target a single spell. Is that the only variant of Greater Dispel Magic that the Heart is capable of?
(Edit: Oops, I see that my question was answered in the post above mine!)
Let me start by saying that I love the bouncing, hunger-related mechanic, as it adds to the feeling of dread that is already evident from the flavor text. But it is a heavy punishment for players to use this item, because ingame you are constantly surrounded by people you care about, who will react to your actions.
This could turn sore for user and victims. This item makes more sense in the hands of a villain, and I have no problem with that. The Heart offers an interesting effect.
The first sentence of your description really turned me off of this item, but I'm glad I kept reading, because the 'someone must pay' mechanic is actually pretty cool. I'm just not sure if greater dispel magic is really the spell you want to start with (upon reading the judges' comments I agree you should definitely specify that the item only drains one spell, or you'll end up with madness). I can see the chain of required saves bogging down play at high levels if used frequently - I'd almost rather see this as an expensive, one-time use item, so you can give the villain (or martyr) some cool magical mojo without having to go through the series of saving throws every fight. Excellent concept though, and I get the feeling your villain is going to be the stuff of nightmares.
I like the "slaking the thirst of the item" angle in your design, but the manner in which it does it (i.e., draining negative levels equal to the spell it fended off) just seems too risky. You could have made it drain hit points rather than levels and it wouldn't have lost much of its flavor.
Also, as Sean pointed out, an undead lich could make use of this...so to me it feels more like a neat villain item in that regard. But it's limited to a very specific villain. So it feels more like a plot-device item, or as someone else pointed out, more of an artifact than a wondrous item. Just a bit too potent for me in what it does.
But it doesn't matter. You're in the Top 32 and congratulations. Make the most of it into the next round.
My two-cents,
--Neil
This item has a lot of great flavor. The problem I see with it is that at high levels, which is about the only time you'd be able to afford it, it's not very useful. By that point, you've already got access to Greater Dispel Magic, and why would you want this dangerous item when you could have a Staff of Greater Dispel Magic? On the other hand... it's cool that this thing targets random people. It might be fun to stick one of these on the party barbarian and run him into a crowd of enemies.
I would love to see an example of this "potential for abuse" that some of the judges have alluded to. How could this be abused? The negative levels MUST be paid for or the item doesn't function.
I hate dealing with level drain mechanics and keeping track of that, so on the one hand as a DM I hate this.
On the other hand, I love items that have a huge drawback and a useful power, so bonus points on that.
Grats on top 32!
As someone else who tackled a tough concept with a small word count (the temporal bracers), I've got to hand it to you; This is a great idea that's only hampered by lack of word space. My only problem would be the "random" aspect of the energy drain. Let's say you're in a room with 9 people, counting yourself. You can't really roll a d9 (without a computer program) to pick who gets hit with the effect. Aside from that, I like it.
|
RPG Superstar 2013
,
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
|
I think I like where you were going, I just don't like how you got there. I like dangerous items with costs built in. They're great for NPCs. But there is a lot left unclear that the judges are sort of hashing out for you, and that is not Superstar in my opinion.
And like was first pointed out - it automatically goes to a villain who doesn't have to pay the cost, really. It just gets handed to a disposable lackey.
Evil, EEEEEVIL flavor. Mwa-ha-ha-ha. As one with a certain fondness for doomsday devices in my own games, I like this.
I do agree with the posters upthread who feel that this is almost a level-draining item with a dispel as a side effect, though you designed it the other way around. And the prose style, while out of place in a wondrous item, makes me very, VERY excited to see your villain concept.
Congrats on Top 32!
-S
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
,
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
|
While I like items with a cost, I don't like it when that cost can pretty easily be paid by others instead of the user. That turns the cost into a carrier effect as has been pointed out, and this item then becomes a way to get 2 actions in a round (3 if you also quicken a spell of your own.)
Because of this, I think the cost is way too low - while cutting the base cost in half for a limitation/cost is fine, in this case, since that cost is pretty easy to turn into a weapon, it should actually increase the price, not decrease it. I'd like this a lot more if it forced the cost onto the user and in exchange automatically dispelled any one mortal magical effect.
That being said, the creepy stuff you put into both the description and the effect is good and should serve you well in the villain rounds.
|
RPG Superstar 2013
,
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
|
According to it's description wouldn't putting it on undead be pointless since they cannot "pay" the negative level cost thus the Greater Dispel magic fails?
The lich, for example, doesn't wear it. He gives it to a berzerk loyal minion, who then pays the cost on promise of being brought back as something 'greater.'