abominable snowman
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As it's intended to be the core monster book and replace the MM. It needs to include most of the same monsters. Exceptions:
1. Monsters that are the IP of Wotc.
2. Exceptionally stupid monsters.
Then, add monsters that should've been in the MM, but weren't.
Perhaps later monster books could be the Tome of Horrors and new Golarion Monsters.
There. That's all I ask. :)
I'm not sure who said it, or exactly where it was on these boards, but I'm 100% sure that one of the Paizo staff said, with regard to cutting 'stupid monsters' Pathfinder monster book that; "no one gets left behind". I think the plan is to include *all* of the SRD monsters because they're free to use and each one probably has at least one fan in the community.
Whatever happens, I can't for for this book - think of the art!
:D
Peace,
tfad
But with no tojanida, how can Prince Zeech serve tojbassarirge at his dinner parties?
Modrons would be great but maybe not in the 1st book.
Director of Games
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Someone else said it a long while back, but I'm going to second it: sea serpents. Seriously, how have sea serpents been overlooked as core monsters for so long?
Sea Serpents are a good idea.. and they would be a great replacement for some less fortunate monsters (as Erik might have hinted at... poor poor sea-soccer ball of doom)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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god, i hated modrons. ok, i hated my geometry teacher, and modrons reminded me of that a**munch.
plus, they were some of david sutherland's WORST illustrations in D&D. almost as bad as his picture of the swanmay...
(and i liked DCSIII - not as much as trampier, but a tad more than erol otus - but it was a close thing between dcs and eo...)
I'm a little disappointed, as I really liked the idea that all of the SRD monsters would make it in. I also kind of liked the idea that the "main" monster manual, whatever it would be called, would stick mainly to SRD monsters, leaving "Pathfinder" monsters for later monster books.
Plus, if its going to be useful for people running all kinds of 3rd and 3.5 adventures, or running games in other campaign settings, some of those monsters might be referenced and not have stats in a given adventure or sourcebook.
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And herein I make my likely to be ignored plea to revive the poor modrons and get rid of those stupid formians. Seriously, ants as the paragon of Law? Boo. Return us to the era of Platonic Automatons esconced in Nirvana. Seriously, there's actually some cool philosophical analogies there.
Plus, modrons are a doddle to make figures for.
Stick matchsticks to some marbles and spare dice, and 'hey, presto!', instant Axiomatic Horde!
How "open" is the great wheel? can you make demons and devils etc even WoTC ones?
How "open" is the great wheel? can you make demons and devils etc even WoTC ones?
This site should be a pretty good guide to what monsters are "open"
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Creative Director
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How "open" is the great wheel? can you make demons and devils etc even WoTC ones?
All of the demons and devils in the 3.5 Monster Manual are 100% open. And you can bet they'll all be in the book.
What monsters make the cut and what ones don't will be a tough set of choices in some cases... Sea Serpents, for example, SHOULD be in the core book, but I'm not sure delvers should be.
In any event... there'll absolutely be more than one monster book. Anything that doesn't make the first round, in other words, will have more than one chance at it eventually...
The goal is, though, to have as many of the core SRD monsters in there as we can fit.
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Serious point now (honest!).
Please can swarms be re-envisioned, so the stats reflect the creatures in a single 5-foot space?
I've been running a certain 1st-level chapter of a certain AP (by Eric), and it is clear there are issues with the current approach (where a swarm is 4 squares).
Area attacks on one end of the swarm can officially destroy the other creatures with total cover, which seems odd, unless you assume the hidden creatures are 'drawn' into the blast.
Barriers (such as a wall of flaming oil) can leave creatures on either side. What to do in this situation? Are they forced to maintain unit coherency, leaping into the flames to do so? If so, do they take damage per 5' base, as it crosses, or are they already assumed to have suffered the damage as a whole entity, and thus, can cross with impunity?
I think all these issues can be solved by changing base size to 5', quartering the HP, and having each base operate independently. It also allows the PCs to chip away at the mass, reducing its size (and possible attacks) by individual elements, instead of 4-square chunks.
Thoughts?
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- Linnorms – How can we have a Land of the Linnorm Kings without linnorms?
- Let’s get some Lovecraft in there – add a few of the Lovecraftian beasties we’ve seen in Pathfinder (hound of Tindalos, gug), plus maybe a few more: deep ones, nightgaunts, etc.
- Demons & Devils - not a big user of them personally, but maybe one or two new ones, particularly low CR ones, so low-level PCs can fight more than just dretches, quasits, imps, & lemures
- Maybe a few more fey, especially some “darker” or unseelie fey
- An extra giant or two, either from Pathfinder or new
- Upgrade the ogre mage!
"Sacrifices"
- Tojanida – fine
- Yrthak – good to go, as well
- Digester – seriously?
- Delver and Thoqqua and other goofy-looking burrowing creatures (aren’t the xorns enough?)
No, we're going to have to cut some monsters. I prefer to think of them as sacrifices.
Boo!
No, we're going to have to cut some monsters. I prefer to think of them as sacrifices.
The tojanida is quivering in its shell, I can tell you.
Ok first of all...Why must some monsters be cut? What happened to the battlecry of "No Monster left behind!" James would exclaim and make me very happy?
Second....The Tojanida is part of a set. If you check out the Monster Manual, the Arrowhawk, Tojanida, Salamander and Xorn are paralels.
All 4 come in small, medium and large, and all 4 have the same challenge rating. So why keep the fire, earth and air creatures and axe the water? Makes no sence.
And no need to cut a MM monster for a sea serpent. Its just a Giant Constrictor Snake's stats. Or a Giant Constrictor Snake advanced to Gargantuan size.
Im with KaeYoss and I say Boo!
Make elementals interesting. Don't make them seem like T-Shirts that can be ordered in any size from Small to Huge but are otherwise the same.
Delver? No.
Tojanida? Not as drawn.
Tendriculos? Stupid name.
Poodle Overlords? Definitely.
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Linnorms – How can we have a Land of the Linnorm Kings without linnorms?
Absolutely - I'd dearly love to see Paizo's take on the linnnorms, since I've never been completely satified with the ones done so far.
Let’s get some Lovecraft in there – add a few of the Lovecraftian beasties we’ve seen in Pathfinder (hound of Tindalos, gug), plus maybe a few more: deep ones, nightgaunts, etc.
I'd love to see the nightgaunts in their, and maybe Paizo's take on the dreamland ghouls. As for Deep Ones, I always just used kuo-toa.
Maybe a few more fey, especially some “darker” or unseelie fey.
Indeed, I've enjoyed some of the fey aspects of areas of Golarion (such as Darkmoon Vale), and would love to see Paizo really run with the idea of the Seelie and Unseelie courts.
Upgrade the ogre mage!
YES!
As for cutting the tojanida, I say - good riddance. I always thought it looked idiotic.
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The Tojanida is part of a set. If you check out the Monster Manual, the Arrowhawk, Tojanida, Salamander and Xorn are paralels.
All 4 come in small, medium and large, and all 4 have the same challenge rating. So why keep the fire, earth and air creatures and axe the water? Makes no sence.
Ditch Tojanida and replace it with the Water Weird, the original part of 'the set.' 'Cause the original was way better than the three-armed magnetohydrodynamic mini-Gamera.
Some of the 3.0 monsters felt like they were thrown in because someone realized, 'Hey, we need a monster with a Sonic attack!' and somebody else said, 'Siren? Some Harpy variant? Banshee? Doombat? That Dune Stalker thing from Fiend Folio?' and got shouted down by a crazy person who said, 'No! Like a Wyvern with a unicorn horn that shoots a sonic lance, only with an unpronounceable name!' Then someone else said, 'Well, we did need more monsters to pad out the letter 'Y...''
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Digester – seriously?
I love those things. But I would rather that Paizo just admit they are supposed to be Jurassic-park-style Dilophosauri.
While we're at it, how about ditching Pikachu?
Count me in for more Linnorns. Those things are crazy!
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Maybe a few more fey, especially some “darker” or unseelie fey.
While fey have a long history in folklore, and can be characterful and fun to run or face, I always felt that, in every edition of the game, there were far too many species with few significant differences.
Most of the fey (in game, or in folklore) could only be told apart by their spell-like abilities, which begs the question, are so many races necessary? Most are encountered singly or in small numbers, so can the even be considered a viable, genetically distinct 'race'?
It would be like arguing that a human illusionist cannot breed with a human conjuror, because they have a different spell list.
Why not have fewer fey races, and assume that the individuals differ due to their class levels?
Tendriculos? Stupid name.
Stupid name yes, but not a bad monster.
I found out no one in my group had ever seen one deployed in a game prior to HMM.
After a good look at it for the first time, it's not that bad of a design, and I think there is a place for a lower level plant/tree monster than compared to say- a treant.
I'd consider renaming it with maybe a sleight retooling versus a complete deletion.
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While we're at it, how about ditching Pikachu (shocker lizards)?
I'm thinking they need to keep monsters they have already used in their existing APs.
It would be pretty bad if someone picks up RotR a few years down the line and can't run the shocker lizards because they don't appear in Paizo's monster book.
Back in the day we had 5 Genie types - 1 for each element, and Jann (who were native to the prime). I remember the water ones as Marids, I can't even remember what the earth ones were called. D+D 3.x only has 3, and one of them is the useless Jann (and they're especially silly, since Jann is actually the plural of (D)Jinni).
Water and earth are Marids and Dao. And they are in Manual of the Planes.
4th edition is even worse and only Efreeti are in the Monster Manual.
Still really dont like this whole "were cutting some monsters" angle.
My list for Additions: Anything that Paizo wants is good. I'd especially like monsters/templates that are often used in Pathfinder (the template that makes undead "dread," for example), and many monsters previously published in v3.5 through the Pathfinder Bestiary.
My list for Sacrifices (if any must be made for the purposes of space): Achaierai, Allip, Arrowhawk, Assassin Vine, Athach, Barghest, Behir, Belker, Bodak, Choker, Chuul, Cloaker, Couatl, Darkmantle, Destrachan, Derro, Devourer, Digester, Dinosaurs, Dragon Turtle, Dragonne, Ethereal Filcher, Etheral Marauder, Formian, Frost Worm, Gibbering Mouther, Girallon, Gorgon, Gray Render, Grick, Grig, Howler, Inevitable, Krenshar, Lammasu, Lillend, Locathah, Magmin, Mephit, Mohrg, Nightshade, Owlbear, Phantom Fungus, Phase Spider, Phasm, Rast, Ravic, Remorhaz, Roper, Shadow Mastiff, Shambling Mound, Shield Guardian, Shrieker, Skum (unless Paizo's using them in the Darklands, which I think I heard somewhere), Slaad (I think that they're WotC IP, anyway), Tendriculos, Thoqqua, Tojanida, Umber Hulk, Vargouille, Violet Fungus, Will-o'-Wisp, Xill, Zorn, Yeth Hound, and Yrthak. I know that a lot of these have long histories in D&D but, quite frankly, have you ever used any of them more than once or twice? Best case scenario is that any of these that do end up getting cut can find space in Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary Volume 2.
I sometimes used these :
Allip, Athach, Behir, Bodak, Cloaker, Couatl, Dragon Turtle, Dragonne, Ethereal Filcher, Etheral Marauder, Frost Worm, Gorgon, Lammasu, Lillend, Phase Spider, Remorhaz, Shadow Mastiff, Shield Guardian, Shrieker, Slaad, Umber Hulk, Will-o'-Wisp.And i quite often use these :
Assassin Vine, Barghest, Derro, Dinosaurs, Mephit, Owlbear, Shambling Mound and Yeth Hound.
Does anyone out there remember the Giant Slug? It was a huge, acid spitting, slime covered adventurer's nightmare. It could squeeze through small openings/doors, and as I recall it was immune to at least one type of weapon (I just can't remember which without digging out my old MM's. As I recall it was in the 1st ed. MM, and it may have made it into the 2nd ed. as well, but by 3.0 it had vanished. So if it's not WotC IP, bring it back! It would make a grand beastie for the deeper tunnels of the Darklands...
Does anyone out there remember the Giant Slug? It was a huge, acid spitting, slime covered adventurer's nightmare. It could squeeze through small openings/doors, and as I recall it was immune to at least one type of weapon (I just can't remember which without digging out my old MM's. As I recall it was in the 1st ed. MM, and it may have made it into the 2nd ed. as well, but by 3.0 it had vanished. So if it's not WotC IP, bring it back! It would make a grand beastie for the deeper tunnels of the Darklands...
Heck yeah I remember Giant Slugs. Im pretty sure they were immune to bludgeoning weapons.
One appeared in the Dragonlance Chronicles.
They are in Tome of Horrors to if you want them for 3rd edition :)
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Keep all from the 3.5 MM except WotC IP and the following:
Achaierai (lame), Arrowhawk (somewhat silly), Delver (blargh), Destrachan (lame, I’m sure Paizo can come up with a better idea for a monster that uses sonic attacks), Digester (OMG), Magmin (do we need these guys when we have Mephits), Phantom Fungus (I don’t get it), Phasm (anyone ever used this?), Sea Cat (not calling it a Sea Lion didn’t make it any cooler), Thoqqua (Um…), Tojanida (Oh my. A sea serpent or even just a giant turtle would be a better choice), Yrthak (again with a better sonic monster).
Can we change the following: Athach (change to Giant type), Derro (change to humanoid type), Hellcat (make it not a devil but a separate monster like a Hellhound), Dire Animals (maybe make it a template … and do we really need Dire badgers?), Dwarf (What’s the difference between Hill Dwarves and Mountain Dwarves really?), Elf (I’m unconvinced that we need a Wood Elf and a Wild Elf both in the core monster book), Genie (maybe give Djinn the chaotic and/or good subtypes and Efreet the lawful and/or evil subtypes?), Ghoul (do them as a template maybe?), Titan (maybe it’s just me, but I’ve always felt that each titan should be unique rather than a generic monster manual entry…).
Can we come up with new subtypes or groupings for “gaurdinals” and “Eladrin”?
Some or all of the following from the ToH would be great (alright, for a couple I might be joking);
Al’mi’raj, Amphisbeana, Atomie (as a type of pixie), Aurumvorax, Brownie, Buckawn, Bunyip (with much better art), Crab, Monstrous, Crypt Thing, Daemon, Cacodaemon, Charonadaemon, Derghodaemon, Hydrodaemon, Piscodaemon, Dark Creeper, Dark Stalker, Death Dog, Demodand, Shaggy, Demodand, Slime, Demodand, Tarry, Demon, Nabasu, Demon, Shadow, Dire Corby, Flail Snail, Flumph, Gloomwing, Hippocampus, Heucuva, Leprechaun, Moondog, Necrophidius, Nereid, Slug, Giant, Spriggan, Troll, Two Headed, Vegepygmy, Wolf-In-Sheep’s Clothing, Terrianthrope (excluding asswere of course), Zombie, JuJu.
Plus we need; more daemons, more dinosaurs, Ogre-kin, Revenants, Red Caps, some Lamia variants, Nosferatu …. and more.
I dont want any monsters cut at all. But please keep the ones WotC made miniatures for. Id still like to use them in future Pathfinder adventures.
Achaierai, Destrachans (which are really cool anyway), Digesters, and Magmin need to stay please.
Ok this tread is making me very sad.
Cut the really dumb monsters like Toejamnidas and Yerthaks and put some Yetis and Redcaps up in there.
I dont want any monsters cut at all. But please keep the ones WotC made miniatures for. Id still like to use them in future Pathfinder adventures.
Achaierai, Destrachans (which are really cool anyway), Digesters, and Magmin need to stay please.
Ok this tread is making me very sad.
I'm with you. I have a lot of things I'm not a fan of, but I'm fairly certain someone else is, and I'd hate to start having to figure out what monsters are "cool" enough to exist.
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I'm with you. I have a lot of things I'm not a fan of, but I'm fairly certain someone else is, and I'd hate to start having to figure out what monsters are "cool" enough to exist.I dont want any monsters cut at all. But please keep the ones WotC made miniatures for. Id still like to use them in future Pathfinder adventures.
Achaierai, Destrachans (which are really cool anyway), Digesters, and Magmin need to stay please.
Ok this tread is making me very sad.
From the sounds of it, it's not 'cool enough to exist,' so much as 'cool enough to be in the first monster book.'