Having seen the Cheliax book now, I was wondering if the description of the Chelaxian government on Page 70 of the Campaign setting is quite accurate/up to date?
In particular, Abrogail II is described as '...a petulant child ruler with an infernal regent...' in the Campaign Setting.
From the Cheliax book, I get the impression that Abrogail II is much more of a veteran political fighter and strong ruler than it seems to me that someone described as a child could be.
I would also like some clarification over whether or not a regency situation actually exists, as the Cheliax book seems to imply the general is an advisor, not a regent?
I suppose it is possible that Abrogail II may have 'come of age' in between the Campaign Setting being published (4708 AR) and the Cheliax book (4709 AR?), and I assume the petulant spoiled young woman act is mostly a front intended to keep enemies off guard.
Ah. I see that Sean mentions on the Abrogail II thread that she is in her early to mid twenties.
So will the Cheliax government section on page 70 of the Campaign Setting get a rewrite (or at least a rewording) at some point?
P. 188 Organizations wrote: ...In some cases, such as with Cheliax's Hellknights, sovereign nations go so far as to rely upon the powerful groups from time to time. In other cases, such as with the Red Mantis, even nations bow to their power... I'm confused that an organisation which specialises in the elimination of individuals, specifically for money or favours, should be mentioned as apparently commanding respect on a level that whole nations fear them - unless there are a lot of very confused stories around about who the Red Mantis actually are/what they actually do. (Stories, for example, being in circulation that the Red Mantis frequently turn up and rampage around killing hundreds of people at random for no reason whatsoever, before disappearing again....)
P. 189 Aspis Consortium wrote: ...It's a question often asked, if rarely in the open, for worry that the Consortium's fingers and ears run wide and deep... This reads to me as a very badly mixed metaphor, whose meaning is nowhere near immediately clear. May I suggest that the latter part of the sentence be rephrased to something along the lines of '...for worry that the Consortium's agents and spies might be anywhere...' for better clarity?
Charles Evans 25 (edited) wrote: Ah. I see that Sean mentions on the Abrogail II thread that she is in her early to mid twenties.
So will the Cheliax government section on page 70 of the Campaign Setting get a rewrite (or at least a rewording) at some point?
Quoting myself here, I have edited the link in the quote in this post, so that it should work even if the Abrogail II thread comes out of the archives. (Too late for me to edit the original post, and with the PMG on holiday at the moment, I'm not sure if I can ask and get the original post fixed.)
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Ah. I see that Sean mentions on the Abrogail II thread that she is in her early to mid twenties.
So will the Cheliax government section on page 70 of the Campaign Setting get a rewrite (or at least a rewording) at some point?
I've long ago noted in my copy of this book to delete the word "child" from that description. We should have done that during editing, of course... especially since the image of her on the same page makes it pretty apparent that she's not a child. Of course... that image also seems to suggest that an erinyes has a life-draining kiss, so you can't trust everything in art, I guess.
(AKA I'd like to replace that image with something different in the reprint.)
But yeah. Abrogail is not a kid.
I never got the impression that Abrogail was a
"child". I read it more as if she were child-like or immature. Kind of like an evil Paris Hilton.
Matt Gwinn wrote: Kind of evil like Paris Hilton. Fixed that for you.
(Cross-posted also to Gods & Magic reference thread)
Update on Nethys' holy days from last week's chat:
James Jacobs wrote: Nethys's holy days are probably mostly go to the library days and group readings of spells and spellcasting duels.
Errors logged to this point.
Hmm. I'm finding multiple problems with the Eagle Knights entry. I'll start off with one which might not be an error, in case an official explanation does exist:
P. 190 Structure and Activities (Eagle Knights of Andoran) wrote: ...The column itself is ancient, and prior to its restoration 150 years ago, it was part of a sprawling, cyclopean ruin discovered and explored by Eagle Knights who carried the column back, piecemeal, as a spoil of conquest to the greater glory of Andoran... P. 202The World: Timeline wrote: ...4081 Chelish King Aspex the Even-Tongued breaks from Taldor, claiming Andoran and the winged folk of the Devil's Perch by diplomacy... P. 203The World: Timeline wrote: ...4669 The People's Revolt transforms Andoran...
...4708 The current year.
So the situation, if I understand correctly, is that the column which is currently the home of the Eagle Knights was erected 'as a spoil of conquest to the greater glory of Andoran' in approximately 4558, despite the fact that this was well over five centuries after Andoran had been subsumed into the Chelish empire, and more than a hundred years before Andoran revolts against Chelish rule and becomes independent?
Is there an official explanation for this, or is there an error in the dating and/or other details here?
A more serious grumble/comment:
P. 190 Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: Alignment: LG...
...The common impression of an Eagle Knight is that of a soldier or paladin...
...The order's current leader is General Reginald Cormoth, paladin of Iomedae and a sitting Executive Consul of the Andoran People's Council...
So, the Eagle Knights are a LG organisation thought of as paladins, with an overall alignment that matches that of paladins, and led by a paladin. As a reminder of what Iomedae (General Reginald Cormoth's patron) stands for:
P. 164Iomedae The Inheritor wrote: Goddess of valor, rulership, justice, and honor
Alignment: LG
Now:
P.190Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: ...Rogues, bards, and rangers find equal opportunity alongside fighters and paladins so long as they hold to the same philosophical and nationalistic beliefs... Bards under the 3.5 rules-set (which was in operation when the Campaign Setting was released) specifically can't be of lawful alignment. So how are such bards supposed to hold to 'the same philosophical beliefs' (if, as I assume, that is supposed to include a general match up of alignment)? At best, allowing the same sort of flexibility as with priests of deities, (that is to say 'one step removed') this would seem to indicate to me that only bards of NG alignment would be countenanced for membership. However the disappearance of alignment restrictions from bards under PFRPG makes this less of an issue.
P. 190-191 Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: ...Although the Steel Falcons do not openly acknowledge it, their foreign activities include guerilla, shadow, and proxy warfare directed against groups threatening Andoran security and those holding hostile ideologies... P.191Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: ...Operating without acknowledgement of their existence, the Twilight Talons are the Eagle Knights' spies, saboteurs, deep cover agentsd, and - at times - its assassins...
...Known only to to General Cormoth and Marshal Helena Trellis but widely speculated upon with paranoia by their affected targets, the Twilight Talons have agents among the governments and militaries of Andoran's rivals of...
So the Eagle Knights, an ostensibly LG organisation, has a leader who not only signs off on covert activities including spying but (assuming he actually knows the full extent of what is going on in the organisation nominally under his control) who also authorises sabotage and assassination.
This is a leader who is stated to be a paladin of a goddess who espouses justice and honour amongst other things.
Granted there are (prestige) classes of LG assassins around, such as the Slayers of Domiel from the Book of Exalted Deeds, but I am curious as to how a paladin who is a member of a government gets to control an organisation the activities of two branches of which are skewed towards blatantly disregarding the laws of other nations and rights afforded by them to their nationals? Aren't there any international agreements, treaties, or conventions?
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Bards under the 3.5 rules-set (which was in operation when the Campaign Setting was released) specifically can't be of lawful alignment. So how are such bards supposed to hold to 'the same philosophical beliefs' (if, as I assume, that is supposed to include a general match up of alignment)? At best, allowing the same sort of flexibility as with priests of deities, (that is to say 'one step removed') this would seem to indicate to me that only bards of NG alignment would be countenanced for membership. However the disappearance of alignment restrictions from bards under PFRPG makes this less of an issue. The "no lawful" restriction on bards is as about as silly as those types of things get in the d20 rules. It's up there with not allowing full multiclassing for paladins or monks. It's a rule that almost ALWAYS got houseruled in games I saw, and that includes several run at WotC. It's certainly something that we abandoned in the flavor sections of developing Golairon early on, knowing that when we finally got to reboot the rules this'd be one change we'd certainly make.
And now that Golarion's under the PRPG rules, it's no longer a problem. (Thank Desna!)
As for the rest of the worries about lawful good and all the associated alignment concerns... I simply don't have the energy right now to get into a huge internet argument about alignment. Let's leave it at this: Alignment is NOT a hard and fast rule. It's a handy way to summarize something's general philosophy and personality using two letters. When you get into the gritty details, there has to be shades and variations, otherwise it's boring and unrealistic.
Cheliax is a LE nation, but that doesn't mean everyone in Cheliax is LE.
Same goes for the Eagle Knights; they're a LG organization in practice and as a general rule, but they're also made out of mortals who have free will and aren't all LG. Certainly the machinations of the entire Eagle Knight organization isn't all under the total control of one guy... and sometimes spying and assassination and the like is necessary for the greater good. It's how one works to atone and make up for things like this that keep someone LG, to a certain extent.
Anyway, alignment is frustrating. I'm gonna go work on something less complicated. Like trying to make Council of Thieves' 250 different loose ends tie up nice and neat.
Well thanks anyway, for for trying to clarify what on Golarion's going on there at Eagle Knights HQ, with regard to the dodgier side of their activities.
At the moment I should probably be writing/editing something for Wayfinder #2, but have hit a brick wall, so I will post instead a couple of snippets from the chat of earlier this week:
In response to an enquiry as to whether or not the 'empires' (Cheliax, Taldor, the eastern empires, for example) have some sort of official courier system for government use?
James Jacobs wrote: Probably. A different one for each nation, I suspect. In response to an enquiry if any nations have a postage/courier system for public use?
James Jacobs wrote: Probably. No stamps, though.
More Eagle Knights of Andoran errata...
Cases where it appears to me that 'Andoran' has been incorrectly used instead of 'Andoren':
P. 190 Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: ...stands among the best of the Andoran military from which most of their number are initially recruited...
...nor are they all recruited from the upper tiers of the Andoran military...
...and a sitting Executive Consul of the Andoran People's Council...
...Before that he served as a high-ranking member of the Andoran military...
P. 191Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: ...compromised by loyalties divided between Andoran nationalism and their founding philosophy...
P. 190
Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: ...the Eagle Knights' headquarters is a massive, seven-story column of white marble... 'story' should be 'storey'?
Query:
By the way, I'm curious as to why Osirion is absent from the 'watchlist' given on page 191 of the Twilight Talons? Cheliax, Taldor, Katapesh, the Shackles, and Nidal are all places where the Twilight Talons apparently have agents among the governments and militaries, but for some reason Osirion, whose current leader is a powerful thaumaturgist who is building up Osirion's armies for an as of yet undetermined reason gets ignored?
Charles Evans 25 wrote: More Eagle Knights of Andoran errata...
Cases where it appears to me that 'Andoran' has been incorrectly used instead of 'Andoren':
All of those look to be legitimate - or at least intentional - uses of the proper name of the country as an adjective, a not-uncommon speech formation, particularly in American English.
Charles Evans 25 wrote: P. 190
Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: ...the Eagle Knights' headquarters is a massive, seven-story column of white marble... 'story' should be 'storey'?
Not on this side of the Atlantic.
(edited)
Hmm. MS Word and at least one online american-english dictionary (*link*) tell me that 'storey' is an american form too. However, I grant that I have no information on which is the regular version used across the US or if usage varies by region/employment.
If story and storey are both acceptable versions across the US, it would be nice if 'storey' could be used as a concession to those of us who walk on pavements, not sidewalks, who start counting floors of buildings in terms of '1st above ground level, etc' and who scratch our heads over some of the eccentricities of word-shortening (from the UK english point of view) in use in american english. :)
Shisumo wrote: Charles Evans 25 wrote: More Eagle Knights of Andoran errata...
Cases where it appears to me that 'Andoran' has been incorrectly used instead of 'Andoren':
All of those look to be legitimate - or at least intentional - uses of the proper name of the country as an adjective, a not-uncommon speech formation, particularly in American English... Except elsewhere in the article what I understand to be Paizo's official adjective form, 'Andoren', is used: there are examples of 'Andoren people', 'Andoren countryside', and even of 'Andoren military' on Page 190. I would expect to see consistency of use, although I can understand, given the similarities of spelling of Andoran and Andoren, how incorrect use might arise.
Storey is not standard American English. It's CERTAINLY not the standard for Paizo, which in the end is the one that matters to Paizo! :)
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Just noticed this:
Campaign Setting p. 216 wrote: Brinestump clover patches grow throughout Brinestump Marsh, in the eastern wilderness of the River Kingdom. So there's a second Brinestump Marsh in the River Kingdoms, in addition to the one near Sandpoint in Varisia (p. 22 of The Skinsaw Murders)? Or is the location a typo and it's referring to the latter?
Branding Opportunity wrote: Just noticed this:
Campaign Setting p. 216 wrote: Brinestump clover patches grow throughout Brinestump Marsh, in the eastern wilderness of the River Kingdom. So there's a second Brinestump Marsh in the River Kingdoms, in addition to the one near Sandpoint in Varisia (p. 22 of The Skinsaw Murders)? Or is the location a typo and it's referring to the latter?
I suspect that's parallel design. We had that happen with Tanglebriar too, with two different authors coming up with a similar name for the same location. We killed the second one since the Tanglebriar south of Kyonin is much more important. In this case, we'll probably change the name of the Brinestump Marsh in the River Kingdom as well because it's not been around as long as the one south of Sandpoint. (And because calling a swamp "BrineANYTHING" makes more sense for a coastal swamp than it does a landlocked swamp, of course...)
The Brinestump Marsh in the River Kingdoms might feature brine as a result of an unusual saline hydrothermal spring, if you have some sort of geological activity in the region. (And being dependent on a very particular environment could tie in with why Brinestump Clover is unique to just one spot.)
Could several geographical locations have the same name? Tricky. With settlements, yes - if someone finds a feature important enough to name a place after, chances are someone else somewhere else wth a similar feature may get exactly the same idea. There are scattered around the British Isles various 'Newtowns' and 'Newcastles' (or variants thereof) for example. Even with geographical features, there are some names repeated - In the english Lake District in terms of major fells there are two High Pikes, two High Raises, and two Red Pikes for example. At least ten fells sport a 'Black Crag'.
As to 'Brinestump Marsh' specifically, whilst my instinct is that humans might not go to the extent of naming marshes such, or at least not identically in two places, what if the Brinestump Marshes are named so by boggards, and for some reason stumps are regarded as items of significance to them? I think a case could be made (if I am correct in assuming boggards near Sandpoint, too), for boggards finding reasons to call a place 'Brinestump' in at least two seperate locations (assuming there is brine and whatever a boggard regards of significance and names a 'stump' in each place) and of humans adopting the boggard names for convenience's sake. Conceivably Brinestump might even be a corruption/mispronunciation by humans of another word or phrase altogether in the tongue that boggards use.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
This is very minor, but on p. 170, under the short description of the goddess Besmara, she is listed as making raids on the plane of "Olympus". That should obviously be "Elysium", the equivalent plane of the Great Beyond.
Branding Opportunity wrote: This is very minor, but on p. 170, under the short description of the goddess Besmara, she is listed as making raids on the plane of "Olympus". That should obviously be "Elysium", the equivalent plane of the Great Beyond. Maybe.
The Great Beyond is a big place. Even though we can't say so in print... the intent is that it not only encompasses the entire universe at its heart in the form of the Material Plane, but that the Great Beyond itself, so unimaginably vast, contains ALL outer planes for EVERY campaign system, and from EVERY real-world myth.
In other words, Olympus is out there somewhere. The Olympians just don't have much to do with Golarion's Inner Sea region. They might have something to do with other parts of Golarion though!
James Jacobs wrote: In other words, Olympus is out there somewhere. The Olympians just don't have much to do with Golarion's Inner Sea region. They might have something to do with other parts of Golarion though! Ahh, and let the speculation commence.
baron arem heshvaun wrote: James Jacobs wrote: In other words, Olympus is out there somewhere. The Olympians just don't have much to do with Golarion's Inner Sea region. They might have something to do with other parts of Golarion though! Ahh, and let the speculation commence. Arcadia.
Besides being the name of a continent on Golarion, it is a name with links to ancient Greek mythology.
(1+1=seven million, five hundred and eighty six thousand, seven hundred and sixty. Or alternatively, just 2?) :D
Comment:
'feared', 'feared', 'fear'.
There seems to be a lot of fear going around in a couple of paragraphs on page 191.
Eagle Knights of Andoran wrote: ...Realms such as Cheliax and Nidal are feared...
...a return to its ancient days of conquest and cultural assimilation would be feared by all of its neighbors...
...It is this threat that many of Andoran's imperial and aristocratic neighbors fear...
This is only really a minor concern I have as to if this semi-regular use of 'feared'/'fear' so close together is a good idea or starts to get repetitive and thus loses impact? And is the Andoren nation actually that scared of its neighbours? Do they genuinely see themselves as underdogs who could be overwhelmed at any moment, or is it more a case of 'concerned about' than 'afraid of'?
Nit-picking, I know... ;)
Yay! That's the Eagle Knights done with for now...
P. 193 Hellknight Titles (sidebar) wrote: ...and exemplary enforcement of their order's tenants... 'tenants' should be 'tenets'?
This isn't really errata, but recently we've been gaming at the office, and my copy of the Campaign Setting has been living there as a result. Some of my co-workers pointed out the other day that the cover art is not actually at print resolution, and you can see signs of compression artifacts against the blue-green background (look against the edges of Valeros's sword for an easy-to-spot example).
The Branding looks fine and the Pathfinder Chronicler on the back is very crisp, but they're right: something's up with that cover painting.
Jer wrote: This isn't really errata, but recently we've been gaming at the office, and my copy of the Campaign Setting has been living there as a result. Some of my co-workers pointed out the other day that the cover art is not actually at print resolution, and you can see signs of compression artifacts against the blue-green background (look against the edges of Valeros's sword for an easy-to-spot example).
The Branding looks fine and the Pathfinder Chronicler on the back is very crisp, but they're right: something's up with that cover painting.
This is one of a bazillion things we're gonna be fixing if/when we reprint. Honestly, this error is the tied with the "Reigon" typo on the poster map for "Most Embarrassing Error in a Pathfinder Product" as far as I'm concerned, and that they're both in the same product is shameful. Neither error is one we talk much about. But yeah... they're errors. (cries)
James Jacobs wrote:
This is one of a bazillion things we're gonna be fixing if/when we reprint. Honestly, this error is the tied with the "Reigon" typo on the poster map for "Most Embarrassing Error in a Pathfinder Product" as far as I'm concerned, and that they're both in the same product is shameful. Neither error is one we talk much about. But yeah... they're errors. (cries)
Don't worry, they'll soon become a charming collectors item!
James Jacobs wrote: This is one of a bazillion things we're gonna be fixing if/when we reprint. Honestly, this error is the tied with the "Reigon" typo on the poster map for "Most Embarrassing Error in a Pathfinder Product" as far as I'm concerned, and that they're both in the same product is shameful. Neither error is one we talk much about. But yeah... they're errors. (cries) Don't cry! I just wanted to make sure you knew ... Knowing is half the battle (sadly, it's usually the easier half, before you get to the tanks at the back, but half the battle nonetheless ;)).
(Cross-posted also to Gods & Magic reference thread)
A summary (questions edited for conciseness) of some of the discussion from last night’s Pathfinder chat, regarding stars and deities.
“James Jacobs” wrote: Stars in Golarion function exactly the same as in the real world. But that doesn't mean there aren't some stars out there that work differently.
Golarion's sun works the same as our sun for sure.
“Question” wrote: So, do deities have the power to seriously mess with stars? As in remove inconvenient build ups of heavier elements, bring in fresh hydrogen fuel for them to burn? Can deities basically carry out maintenance on stars to keep them 'in service' and supporting solar systems for however long they like? “James Jacobs” wrote: Some do, and some could. But they wouldn't have to; the universe pretty much runs on its own. And messing with stars begins to mess with ecological balance of things, so most deities know better than to tinker. “Question” wrote: Going in the other direction, can deities overload stars and cause them to go nova? (There was specific reference by some chatters to Groetus and Rovagug.) “James Jacobs” wrote: Groetus is not really interested in messing with stars. He's on his own schedule far away.
Rovagug would certainly be a deity who would get a kick out of blowing up a star. I suspect he's done things like that before, in fact.
Of the core 20 deities, only Rovagug has so little respect for his worshipers that he wouldn't balk at blowing them all up. But that said, Rovagug likes to be hands-on with the devastation. He can't feel the death and pain if he's 93 million miles away.
“Question” wrote: Couldn’t Rovagug trigger a nova then hop from planet to planet enjoying the destruction as it hit? “James Jacobs” wrote: Maybe. We don't really quantify what a god can or cannot do yet.
Back to the errata…
P. 192 “Hellknight Orders (The Order of the Chain)” wrote: …is the former slave of the order’s Orsirion-born Lictor… ‘Orsirion’ should be ‘Osirion’?
“Hellknight Orders (the Order of the God Claw)” wrote: The pentomic Order of the God Claw extols variations and virtues of five lawful deities, distilling select tenants into a dogma… ‘tenants’ should be ‘tenets’?
I also have doubts over the use of the word ‘pentomic’. I was not familiar with this word and had to look it up in an online dictionary. The impression I am left with is that it is a US military technical term, and it apparently describes a military organisation system whose reason for existence is that it was specifically designed to function in a possible nuclear warfare environment.
Given that even the word itself carries the marks of its origins, being derived from ‘Pent + (at)omic’, I am unconvinced of the appropriateness of applying it to an Order of Golarion Hellknights. :(
All that said, ‘pentomic’ is an interesting word, I grant, and if Paizo wishes to keep it for use in Golarion, would a sidebar at some point acknowledging the origins and redefinition be possible?
One of the things that all of us at Paizo are pleased with is how growing up playing and reading D&D stuff increased our vocabularies. As a result, we often try to find obscure words and insert them into the text of a product. We don't do this all the time, but when we DO do it, it's always on purpose.
I for one am ALWAYS pleased to learn a new word while reading an author's manuscript. Less pleased when I look it up and find out that the author used the word wrong, of course, but in cases where the word is used correctly or imaginatively, which is certainly the case with the word "pentomic."
James Jacobs wrote: One of the things that all of us at Paizo are pleased with is how growing up playing and reading D&D stuff increased our vocabularies. As a result, we often try to find obscure words and insert them into the text of a product. We don't do this all the time, but when we DO do it, it's always on purpose.
I for one am ALWAYS pleased to learn a new word while reading an author's manuscript. Less pleased when I look it up and find out that the author used the word wrong, of course, but in cases where the word is used correctly or imaginatively, which is certainly the case with the word "pentomic."
Ah well. I'm looking forward to seeing the occasional future jokes/outraged posts about the Order of the God Claw... :)
Edit:
I was tempted to rush down to the OTD section and post a fan art order for the atomic kitten group posing as members of the Order of the God Claw, but sadly there are only three atomic kittens (or four, counting Kerry) so I made my Will save this time...
Question:
In Chapter 4, what exactly is the 'scope' of an organization meant to entail?
On Page 194 I see the scope of the Pathfinder Society designated as 'global', which is why I ask. Everything thus far that I have read about the Pathfinder Society indicates to me that its origins, heartlands, places where it may have political influence, and bases are around the Inner Sea Region specifically. If scope is intended to indicate power and significant presence of an organization, it seems to me that the Pathfinder Society would rate 'continental' rather than 'global'. Avistan is a particularly small continent by Golarion standards to the best of my knowledge and I assume that Pathfinder Society outposts notably thin out the further away across Garund (or Casmaron) that one gets from the Inner Sea.
If on the other hand 'scope' is intended to indicate 'where a wandering member might possibly be encountered on official business', then I am less inclined to dispute the 'global' for the Pathfinder Society, as it seems to me that a wandering Pathfinder, out on a limb with no backup or resources other than what he/she is carrying, might be encountered almost anywhere on, under, or above Golarion.
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Question:
In Chapter 4, what exactly is the 'scope' of an organization meant to entail?
A convenient one-word indication of how far-flung the organization is. It has no game mechanics attached to it whatsoever.
There are, in any case, Pathfinder agents in Tien Xia and Arcadia and all of the other continents in the world.
The Hellknights, though, are pretty much only interested in Cheliax (with a minor exception in the order of the Nail in Korvosa).
The Red Mantis, though, has stuff going on throughout the Inner Sea region, and thus they have a "regional" scope. They don't have a presence on areas off the core map.
James Jacobs wrote: Charles Evans 25 wrote: Question:
In Chapter 4, what exactly is the 'scope' of an organization meant to entail?
A convenient one-word indication of how far-flung the organization is. It has no game mechanics attached to it whatsoever.
There are, in any case, Pathfinder agents in Tien Xia and Arcadia and all of the other continents in the world.
The Hellknights, though, are pretty much only interested in Cheliax (with a minor exception in the order of the Nail in Korvosa).
The Red Mantis, though, has stuff going on throughout the Inner Sea region, and thus they have a "regional" scope. They don't have a presence on areas off the core map. (edited, spelling & grammar tidied up)
Thanks for the clarification. :)
Although I am now curious as to why (if Achaekek serves all (?) the gods as their 'problem solver') the Red Mantis is purely regional in scope? Or does the Red Mantis have counterpart organsiations in Tian-Xia and Casmaron who follow Achaekek but with completely different styles of operation (and in game term mechanics different prestige classes attached)? Does Achaekek have a group of ninja-themed followers who serve him in the Minkai area, for example?
Edit:
Anyway, enjoy your weekend. :D
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Although I am now curious as to why (if Achaekek serves all(?) the gods as their 'problem solver') the Red Mantis is purely regional? Or does the Red Manis have counterpart organsiations in Tian-Xia and Casmaron who follow Achaekek but with more completely different styles (and in game term mechanics different prestige classes attached)? Does Achaekek have a group of ninja-themed followers who serve him in the Minkai area, for example? Achaekek has been around for a Long, Long time. The Red Mantis has only been around for a blink of an eye, comparatively. That they worship and emulate him and built their society in honor of him doesn't mean that they're as widespread as Achaekek's cult.
I'm sure there are worshipers of Achekek who aren't members of the Red Mantis, just as I'm sure there are worshipers of Iomedae who aren't crusaders in Mendev or worshipers of Asmodeus who don't live in Cheliax.
The gods we've detailed so far are overwhelmingly the gods of the Inner Sea region, in any event. While some of them might be worshiped in other regions, those other regions have their own pantheon of deities.
I'd say that there's no Achaekek worshipers in Minkai, in any event. That region already HAS ninjas and they've already got a cool pre-built mythology to riff off of.
(Cross-posted also to Gods & Magic reference thread)
*Link* to post by James Jacobs on another thread, giving details of the animals sacred to some of the deities in his home campaign.*
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Guide to Darkmoon Vale p. 46 wrote: Upon King Narven’s death, in 4491, his body was given a proper druidic burial PC Campaign Setting p. 203, and Gazetteer p. 21 wrote: 4508: The Forest King Narven dies in the Arthfell Forest. Which is correct? Inquiring Pathfinder Wiki chroniclers want to know.
Thanks
Branding Opportunity wrote: Guide to Darkmoon Vale p. 46 wrote: Upon King Narven’s death, in 4491, his body was given a proper druidic burial PC Campaign Setting p. 203, and Gazetteer p. 21 wrote: 4508: The Forest King Narven dies in the Arthfell Forest. Which is correct? Inquiring Pathfinder Wiki chroniclers want to know.
Thanks PC Campaign setting is correct.
Assuming that the new 'Death Curse' feature (which I love) of linnorms from the PFRPG bestiary carries over into Golarion, this would seem to me to have some interesting implications for rulers in the Land of The Linnorm Kings, where (amongst other things) a pre-requisite for rulership is that they must carry the head of a linnorm through the city gates.
If I understand the reading of the Death Curse correctly, you only get one save, normally, when you kill the linnorm, and if you fail that then you're stuck with the curse permanently, or at least stuck with it in the absence of a lot of clerical/bardic remove curse assistance.
So: are any of the rulers of the Land of the Linnorm Kings ruling under curses from linnorms that they have killed during their lives, are they allowed to let a very loyal henchman/retainer deal the death-blow to a linnorm during a hunt and take the curse but claim the rule for themselves, and are there special means to evade or obviate linnorm curses? (For example, as discussed earlier on this thread, White Estrid has a linnorm pet/advisor: Do linnorms themselves possess any form of complete immunity to the death curses of other linnorms (or at least to those of linnorms of either lower CR or with a Death Curse of lower DC), and are they able to convey any immunity or at least greater resistance to death curses to associates?)
It seems to me that there's a lot of flavour relating to the Lands of the Linnorm Kings on this topic waiting for development...
:)
Okay, back to the Hellknights:
P. 192 Hellknights wrote: ...Leader: Varied... If I understand correctly that there is no particular Hellknight with overall charge, then should 'Varied' be 'Varies by order'?
The Order of the Chain wrote: ...Unlike many of its brethren, the Order of the Chain rarely executes those who offend its code... This reads clumsily to me. May I suggest something like 'Unlike many of their brethren, Order of the Chain Hellknights rarely execute those who offend against their order's code'?
Now a couple of general questions:
1) When the areas of interest of two or more Hellknight orders overlap, who has seniority for Hellknight operations? For example when a brigand gang is using dangerous knowledge to assist their criminal actions, does the Order of the Rack or the Order of the Nail have seniority if both are after the same brigands?
2) Given the existence of the Order of the Rack, what is the Hellknight stance with regard to gunpowder weapons? Are these viewed as the fruits of dangerous knowledge?
Question:
P. 193 The Order of the Nail wrote: The only order of Hellknights with headquarters outside of Cheliax... Lesser Orders wrote: Numerous lesser orders of Hellknights exist, although few are known outside the borders of Cheliax... Is it safe to assume that (as of 4708 AR, in terms of official canon) all Lesser Orders of Hellknights, even if they operate outside of Cheliax, have their headquarters in Cheliax - given that the Order of the Nail is specifically described as the 'only' Order with headquarters outside of Cheliax?
James Jacobs:
A reminder that on another thread (*link*) a query additional to those already posted on here was raised about why on Page 203 White Estrid is described as a 'Linnorm Queen' in the entry for the year 4704 AR, and comment was made about her raid on Nisroch and trip down to Absalom which are not mentioned in that entry for the year but which are apparently indicated for it (if you do the maths) by information in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings entry?
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Creative Director
