yoda8myhead wrote: James Jacobs wrote: Of coruse, even well before this date she was still fully capable of granting spells to her faithful. Demon lords = gods in Golarion, after all. They're just not at the same power level as the core 20 gods. Is this why they have only 4 domains and the core 20 (and other full gods) have 5? It is.
P. 149 “The Worldwound (Dyinglight)” wrote: …who hunt the Crown of the World and clash with the warclans of the Hold of the Mammoth Lords. Facing the great emptiness of the western tundra between the two lands, the demons have shown little interest in pressing for westward expansion. ‘Ummmm’: Is the ‘western’ actually necessary, or does it even make sense here? I think I might prefer for the latter part of this section something like: ‘Faced with the great emptiness of the tundra west of Dyinglight, the demons have however shown little interest in pressing for expansion in that direction.’
P. 150 “The Worldwound(Gundrun)” wrote: …In truth, the demon hordes of the Worldwound turn their eyes primarily toward Mendev and pay little mind to their far southwestern frontier, but Gundrun and the surrounding lands are not without danger… Observation: It doesn’t invalidate the section I just cited, but looking at the world map Gundrun is (relatively speaking) some distance from the far southwest border of the territory indicated (by national borders) as being held by the demons.
P. 152 “Casmaron” wrote: …along the Golden Path, an informal trade route leading from Qadira’s capital in Katheer through the hostile central steppes and deserts… Comment: I’m unsure exactly what is meant here by describing the trade route as ‘informal’.
DM Reference queries:
“Casmaron” wrote: …among foreboding pine forests rivaling the primeval Arthfell… What exactly was/is ‘the primeval Arthfell’? Was this a forest in Golarion’s past? If so where was it located, and do any remnants survive to the current day? (Possibly interesting notion, was it destroyed during The Earthfall?)
P. 153 “Casmaron” wrote: The vast, landlocked Castrovin Sea… Is this sea freshwater or saltwater?
Sorry, my attention seems to have been slipping towards the end of the main country entries. Another error I missed:
P. 146 Varisia(Kaer-Maga) wrote: ...the grisly augurs - troll soothsayers who use their own entrails to prophesize with questionably accuracy. The last few words seem to make no sense; should they instead be either 'with unquestionable accuracy', or perhaps 'with questionable accuracy'?
*Link for reference material thread about Ustalav*
Edit:
Further to my earlier query on the subject of Ustalav's nobility, I see that (P. 143), Bishop Yarsmardin Senir has 'forsaken one title for another', which I take to be a reference to his formerly being a noble? Since the titles are 'ancestral' however, take them to be heridtary, and surely if he [the bishop] renounces his claim to the title of Count of Ulcazar, the title & position of Count of Ulcazar simply pass on to someone else?
From the Ustalav Thread:
F. Wesley Schneider wrote: Charles Evans 25 wrote: Now if you could just see your way to answering my query which I recently posted on the Campaign Setting thread regarding the small matter of who exactly is the current Count of Ulcazar, if a recent Count gave up his title to go into the church?.... :D Nope. Can't be bothered. I'll answer it here, though.
Bishop Yarsmardin Senir. Although he does not use the title he did not give up the authority of count. The state, the people, and the Monastery of the Veil still acknowledge him as lord. Many thanks for the clarification.
Hi,
I have two question regarding PFCS :
- I have not seen any mention of the "total population per State / Country", and it annoyed me a little. For example, I know Absalom is a huge city-state, so my guess is that there are not much more population on the territory around. However, what about Osirion, Cheliax and others ?
It seems pretty difficult to make a quick guess, and it would help for the density of the population, the "potential" military strength of countries, and so on...
- When will we have the errata for PFCS ?
I also have one other question : will we find a compiled file of the feats found here or there (players' guides, PFCS, PF AP or modules...) in the coming final version of the PFRG.
Or will we find those somewhere else ?
It would really help to have all the new feats compiled in one of the coming books !
Thanks !
silenttimo wrote: - I have not seen any mention of the "total population per State / Country", and it annoyed me a little. For example, I know Absalom is a huge city-state, so my guess is that there are not much more population on the territory around. However, what about Osirion, Cheliax and others ? This information was not part of our design goals for the book. It probably WOULD be a cool addition to the info about each nation, but that also gets complicated when you get to regions that have unusual population models, like Varisia or the Worldwound or the Mwangi Expanse. That said... we'll be slowly but surely covering the other nations in other products, so we'll have plenty of chances to address this additional info I suspect.
silenttimo wrote: - When will we have the errata for PFCS ? This isn't something that we've got on the schedule yet. Things are pretty hectic right now schedule wise, and time taken out to compile and format an errata sheet and make sure that all the errata is accurate and indeed errors... it's a bit more complicated than just typing up a list and posting it as a messageboard post, is what I'm saying.
silenttimo wrote: I also have one other question : will we find a compiled file of the feats found here or there (players' guides, PFCS, PF AP or modules...) in the coming final version of the PFRG. The PF RPG is not Golarion-only—it's the base book for the game, be that a game in Golarion or Faerun or Eberron or Greyhawk or any number of home-brews. The feats in the Pathfinder campaign setting don't really have a place in the PF RPG as a result. That book needs to provide the standard baseline feats; stuff like Power Attack and Combat Reflexes. We may compile the Pathfinder feats into a book later, though... but again, that's a while down the road.
Thanks for your answers James !
James Jacobs wrote: silenttimo wrote: I also have one other question : will we find a compiled file of the feats found here or there (players' guides, PFCS, PF AP or modules...) in the coming final version of the PFRG. The PF RPG is not Golarion-only—it's the base book for the game, be that a game in Golarion or Faerun or Eberron or Greyhawk or any number of home-brews. The feats in the Pathfinder campaign setting don't really have a place in the PF RPG as a result. That book needs to provide the standard baseline feats; stuff like Power Attack and Combat Reflexes. We may compile the Pathfinder feats into a book later, though... but again, that's a while down the road.
Right, I do understand.
What would be pretty useful is a kind of downloadable file (PDF or else) of a consolidated list.
Name of feat / type of feat (regional, racial, general, metamagic...) / Book and page / pre-requisites / short sentence to explain it
Maybe has somebody done such a work that could be shared with others ?!
silenttimo wrote: Thanks for your answers James !
James Jacobs wrote: silenttimo wrote: I also have one other question : will we find a compiled file of the feats found here or there (players' guides, PFCS, PF AP or modules...) in the coming final version of the PFRG. The PF RPG is not Golarion-only—it's the base book for the game, be that a game in Golarion or Faerun or Eberron or Greyhawk or any number of home-brews. The feats in the Pathfinder campaign setting don't really have a place in the PF RPG as a result. That book needs to provide the standard baseline feats; stuff like Power Attack and Combat Reflexes. We may compile the Pathfinder feats into a book later, though... but again, that's a while down the road.
Right, I do understand.
What would be pretty useful is a kind of downloadable file (PDF or else) of a consolidated list.
Name of feat / type of feat (regional, racial, general, metamagic...) / Book and page / pre-requisites / short sentence to explain it
Maybe has somebody done such a work that could be shared with others ?!
I believe that one of the Paizo messageboards regulars, yoda8myhead has been compiling a Wikipedia here, although it is still in the early stages of assembly: *link*
P. 153 “Casmaron(Padishah Empire of Kelesh)” wrote: …The influence of Kelesh spreads even into Avistan, where its puppet-state of Qadira keeps watch on the Inner Sea… Quibble: I personally wouldn’t describe Qadira as a ‘puppet-state’, but rather as a ‘province’. The whole tone of the Qadira entry, earlier in the Campaign Setting, leaves me with a sense that the population of Qadira think of themselves as being integrated into the Padishah Empire of Kelesh at a level that goes way beyond what I would expect in a puppet-state.
“Casmaron(Windswept Wastes)” wrote: …The yawning chasm spans 20 miles from edge to edge, and seems to cut down into the very heart of Golarion. Those who brave the strange gales and savage inhabitants of the region to peer over the portal’s side speak of a vague dull glow at the apparent bottom of the pit… Query: I am confused here by the use of the word ‘portal’ in this description of the Pit of Gormuz. Is it actually a physical hole, a vast ‘constantly open’ magical gate, or some combination of the two?
“Casmaron(Windswept Wastes)” wrote: …The Tarrasque that destroyed Ninshabur and thundered into Avistan at the close of the Age of Destiny… Observation: The Age of Destiny (according to the timeline (Page 201)) was approximately 3470 years long, with the Tarrasque showing up (and ostensibly heading straight into Avistan after destroying Ninshabur?) 632 years before the next Age started. How precise the Tarrasque data given in the timeline is, I’m not sure (after all it may have spent several centuries wandering around after the initial appearance in -632, before it finally headed into Avistan). The point I’m trying to get around to making is I don’t know if six centuries off from the start of the next Age counts as being ‘at the close of the Age of Destiny’; looked at as a proportion of the whole age, the emergence is in the last fifth or so of the Age of Destiny, and is the second from last event for that Age mentioned on the current timeline. (The last, the establishment of Valenhall, occurs 149 years after the Tarrasque emerges from the Pit of Gormuz.)
Just to add a reminder that, as was raised on *this thread* the orcs of the Brimstone Haruspex (Campaign Setting, Hold of Belkzen, Page 64) are monks as well as clerics according to an official James Jacobs ruling and information in Pathfinder #11.
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Query: I am confused here by the use of the word ‘portal’ in this description of the Pit of Gormuz. Is it actually a physical hole, a vast ‘constantly open’ magical gate, or some combination of the two? The word "portal" can mean magical gate, but it doesn't have to. Here, the word portal is merely a synonym for "opening in the ground." The Pit is not a magical gate, but a physical hole that leads down to the deep Darklands. Actually... there MAY be a magic portal down at the bottom, but no one knows for sure.
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Observation: The Age of Destiny (according to the timeline (Page 201)) was approximately 3470 years long, with the Tarrasque showing up (and ostensibly heading straight into Avistan after destroying Ninshabur?) 632 years before the next Age started. How precise the Tarrasque data given in the timeline is, I’m not sure (after all it may have spent several centuries wandering around after the initial appearance in -632, before it finally headed into Avistan). The point I’m trying to get around to making is I don’t know if six centuries off from the start of the next Age counts as being ‘at the close of the Age of Destiny’; looked at as a proportion of the whole age, the emergence is in the last fifth or so of the Age of Destiny, and is the second from last event for that Age mentioned on the current timeline. (The last, the establishment of Valenhall, occurs 149 years after the Tarrasque emerges from the Pit of Gormuz.) We haven't yet worked out the full details of how long the tarrasque was running amok on Golarion. What it was doing, if it was following the classic "rampage for a week and then sleep for a decade" Tarrasque behavior is also unrevealed at this point.
As for the wording: In my opinion, appearing in the last fifth of an age IS appearing at the age's close, especially considering the amount of years involved. If said age was only 5 years long and something appeared in the last year, that's just as "at the close of the age" as if it was a 50,000 year age and it appeared at the 10,000 year mark for the purposes of semantics, really.
James Jacobs wrote:
...We haven't yet worked out the full details of how long the tarrasque was running amok on Golarion. What it was doing, if it was following the classic "rampage for a week and then sleep for a decade" Tarrasque behavior is also unrevealed at this point.
As for the wording: In my opinion, appearing in the last fifth of an age IS appearing at the age's close, especially considering the amount of years involved. If said age was only 5 years long and something appeared in the last year, that's just as "at the close of the age" as if it was a 50,000 year age and it appeared at the 10,000 year mark for the purposes of semantics, really. Ah, semantics... :D
The trouble is, in terms of human lifespans, 600+ years just seems a bit of a while...
In terms of ages <finger-snap> nothing.
:D (again)
P. 154 “Casmaron(Iobaria)” wrote: …Iobaria blossomed into an empire whose colonies stretched into Avistan in the form of Issia (now Brevoy) and Mendev… Minor Quibble: Issia is now part of Brevoy, given that it was joined with Rostland to make that country. The sentence can be read as indicating that Issia on its own became Brevoy.
By the way, on the subject of Brevoy, another one I missed earlier:
P. 66 “Brevoy” wrote: Brevoy
Power Stuggle Between Feuding Noble Houses
‘Stuggle’ should be ‘Struggle’?
Back to Casmaron:
P. 154 “Casmaron(Iobaria)” wrote: …the blocks reached above the treeline, serving as a sort of directional marker for Iolavai’s Iobarian Guides… Query: Is what is meant here that the blocks are piled up so high that they are visible above the treetops?
P. 154 “Casmaron(Ninshabur)” wrote: …The adventurers of the Pathfinder Society have not forgotten… This is one of those lines in the print version of the Campaign Setting where the words are all squashed up together.
“Casmaron(Ninshabur)” wrote: … and no fewer than four volumes of the Pathfinder Chronicles contain accounts of exploits engaged on that nation’s distant soil… Should ‘exploits engaged on’ be ‘exploits engaged in on’?
P. 155 “Casmaron(Vudra)” wrote: …Vudra is a massive peninsula extending from southeastern… This is one of those lines in the print version of the Campaign Setting where the words are squashed up close together.
Query:
Several references have been made in the Campaign Setting to the Lens of Galundari, an artefact (sorry, UK spelling) which Durvin Gest claimed to have retrieved from Tabsagal in Ninshabur on the continent of Casmaron, but apparently felt the need to travel to Osibu in the Mwangi Expanse on the continent of Garund to get rid of it by putting it into the 'Nemesis Well'. Will we be given any more information on either the Lens or Nemesis Well at any point in the near future?
P. 155 “Azlant” wrote: …The mysterious Mordent Spire sea elves still ply the cutways of continental ruin… “Azlant” wrote: …the towering cutways that remain are shot through with ancient subterranean passages and complexes still visible from the frothing sea… What is a ‘cutway’, please? I have tried googling for a definition and also checking to see if it is US spelling of a UK word, but have drawn a blank on both counts.
“Azlant” wrote: …Crumbling towers and statues regaling the unparalleled splendour of Old Azlant perch at odd angles atop the ocean ravines… Uncertainty: Should ‘regaling’ be ‘regaling of’? I take it that regaling is being used as a more poetic (?) form here for ‘telling’? (Although it could as easily be that 'regaling' has been used instead of 'recalling', which would fit the 'of' being absent?)
P. 155 “Azlant(The Sun Temple Colony)” wrote: …Instead, the explorers salvaged what they could from the wreckage and trecked 3 miles up a natural rise to the peak of a large tor… ‘trecked’ should be ‘trekked’?
P. 156 “Arcadia” wrote: …Ulfen longships sworn to the Linnorm Kings first discovered Arcadia 5,000 years ago establishing a community called Valenhall on the rocky northwest shores… Assuming that the Linnorm Kings sailed west across the Arcadian Ocean to reach Arcadia, and didn’t do anything like sail through a magical portal or across the top of the world, is there any reason why they didn’t settle on the northeast shores of Arcadia, since I would have thought that they would otherwise have come to these first? Or is this an east/west mix up?
“Arcadia(Valenhall)” wrote: …Guarded by einherar and valkyries and ministered to by a trio of reclusive norns… Uncertainty: I have consulted my second edition Planescape material, and find mention in that of spirits known as ‘einheriar’; is ‘einherar’ a spelling mistake version of ‘einheriar’?
Charles Evans 25 wrote: What is a ‘cutway’, please? A cutway is a sheer valley, most accurately one that refers to the deep trench-like cliff along the side of a road that slices through a hill or along a cliff rather than under or around it. In the case of Azlant, though, it refers to the deep cliffs that plunge into the sea, creating a network of cliffs and canyons and turning the ocean into a maze.
James Jacobs wrote: Charles Evans 25 wrote: What is a ‘cutway’, please? A cutway is a sheer valley, most accurately one that refers to the deep trench-like cliff along the side of a road that slices through a hill or along a cliff rather than under or around it. In the case of Azlant, though, it refers to the deep cliffs that plunge into the sea, creating a network of cliffs and canyons and turning the ocean into a maze. Ahhh. Thank you. The closest my googling got me was a residents association memo about a garage in Clapham.... :D
P. 156 The Crown of the World wrote: ...frost giants, remorhazes, arctic worms, and worse, the Crown... This is one of those sentences where in the print version the words seem to be squashed up close to one another (although the multiple commas make it relatively easy to read, anyway).
Query, Regarding creatures:
'Are 'ice dragons' a linnorm variant, and 'arctic worms' a local purple worm variant?
Charles Evans 25 wrote: P. 156The Crown of the World wrote: ...frost giants, remorhazes, arctic worms, and worse, the Crown... This is one of those sentences where in the print version the words seem to be squashed up close to one another (although the multiple commas make it relatively easy to read, anyway).
Query, Regarding creatures:
'Are 'ice dragons' a linnorm variant, and 'arctic worms' a local purple worm variant?
Ice dragons could be anything, from white dragons to snow linnorms to something else entirely. Likewise the arctic worm; that could be a purple worm variant, a frost worm, or who knows what? Until we get more into the Crown of the World, we won't know for sure.
P. 157 “Tian Xia” wrote: …come from Tian Xia, a northern continent in the planet’s eastern hemisphere… On Earth, the northern and southern hemispheres can be defined relative to the equator, and the axis about which the Earth spins. Since the climate zones on the Campaign Setting world map seem to me to indicate that Golarion rotates in an approximately earthlike-manner, Golarion’s equator would not appear to be available as an option to define anything other than north and south hemispheres. So what other borders does Golarion have which can be used to split the world into an east hemisphere (and presumably a west hemisphere, too)? Vortices to the elemental plane of air perhaps, at the centre of the ‘eastern’ and ‘western’ hemispheres where winds come from?
Or an ancient line, maybe, drawn by an empire so long ago that nobody can remember who did it and why?
Where does this concept of east (and west?) hemispheres come from, and is the delineation generally recognised? Is it physically marked anywhere, or indicated upon maps? Or is it an Avistan-centric (or possibly Azlant-centric) notion come up with by egotistical scholars who think (or thought) that their continent is (was) the metaphysical (?) centre of the world?
“Tian Xia(Xa Hoi)” wrote: …and like his fathers before him he maintains an active and well-trained army made up of compulsory conscripts… Is the ‘compulsory’ necessary here? As far as I know conscription is compulsory military service, by definition.
By the way, on page 220 in the modern languages section, Tien is listed before Skald, which seems a little odd since the list otherwise appears to be in alphabetical order.
Hmm. I find nothing to currently report or query regarding Sarusan. Chapter two done for now!
Sorry; back on page 4 of this thread: Charles Evans 25 wrote: “Ustalav(BishopYarsmardin Senir)” wrote: …the secluded cloister of an order of silent Pharasmin monks… Query: Is ‘Pharasmin’ the correct form to use for a group of monks who worship Pharasma?
I should have left a space between 'Bishop' and 'Yarsmardin', to quote the Campaign Setting entirely accurately. Sorry for the misquote. (On the version of Word which I composed the post on, the gap between a 'p' and 'Y' in the font which I was using is sufficient to make it appear as if the words have had a space left between them, even when they have not.)
Pages 158-159 (Religion, Domains)
Artifice Domain wrote: Granted Power: You gain a +4 bonus on Craft checks.... Is this an untyped bonus? If not, what type should it have? (The Community domain grants a +2 competence bonus to Diplomacy checks, for comparison.)
Charm Domain wrote: Granted Power: You can boost your Charisma by 4 points once per day. Activating this power is a free action. The Charisma increase lasts 1 minute. Does this 'increase' stack with regular bonuses to Charisma?
Madness Domain wrote: Granted Power: Once per day, you may add +4 on any one Will save, Wisdom-based skill check, or Wisdom check. You must choose to use this power before you roll. Is this a bonus, increase, or just completely unspecified +4?
(My personal inclination would be to make it either an insight bonus (a moment of 'insane clarity') or an unholy/holy bonus (depending on the nature of the deity granting the domain).)
Both the '(7) Sunbeam' spell in the Glory Domain, and the '(8) Whirlwind' spell in the Weather Domain have been marked with an asterisk, supposedly indicating that they are detailed in Chapter 5. Neither are detailed in Chapter 5, although they are both spells in the 3.5 PHB- as are all the spells unmarked by asterisks.
On another thread, Rob McCreary posted the following comment/question, which as far as I can see has not yet been answered on the Paizo forums:
Rob McCreary wrote: Here's a question about the Hamatulatsu feat on p.83 of the campaign setting:
The feat lists as a prerequisite that you must be female.
BUT...
In the flavor text about Isgeri Orphans on the same page, it says the Sisters of the Golden Erinyes trains rescued "youths" in Hamatulatsu, with females joining the Sisterhood while males join the Hellknights or clergy of Asmodeus.
Furthermore, J1 Entombed with the Pharaohs gives us Chelish legionnaires, both male AND female, who are trained in Hamatulatsu.
So is the feat restricted to females, or is the female prerequisite a holdover from an earlier version of the feat that was missed in editing?
Further Queries: (these ones holding up reading)
When (in Chapter 2) religions are listed in entries for countries in the 'key info' block on the first page of any country entry, is there any significance to the order in which the religions are listed? (EG are they listed in order of popularity of worship with the locals, supposed to be listed alphabetically, listed in terms of leverage that they have in government, listed in terms of spell-casting level of most powerful cleric, supposed to be listed in order that they arrived in the country, or listed in order by any other means?)
When 'Centers of Worship' are listed in Chapter 2 for the 20 major deities, the order appears to be alphabetical; are only centers of worship of major significance, either to the country or to the religion, given?
I'm inquiring because I started cross-referencing between Chapters 2 & 3 and noticed that Iomedae was listed amongst the Religions for Absalom (Chapter 2, Page 54), but that in Chapter 3 (Page 164) no mention is made of Iomedae having any 'center of worship' in Absalom.
Here comes the bad news from my cross-referencing of national entries and deity entries…
The following Countries had the following deities listed in the ‘key info’ section, under religion, but the deities/belief systems did not admit in their entries to having any centre (or ‘center’ in US English) of worship there:
Absalom – Iomedae
Alkenstar – Torag, Abadar, Erastil, Irori
Isger – Diabolism (belief system)
Mwangi Expanse – Gozreh
Nidal – Diabolism (belief system)
Osirion – Abadar
Varisia – Cayden Cailean, Urgathoa
Also on the subject of the key info blocks in country entries, Realm of the Mammoth Lords lists ‘Minderhal’ as a religion, but this is the ONLY mention (apart from how to pronounce the name on Page 247) that I have so far found regarding either this deity or his church in the Campaign Setting. Minderhal is touched upon in Pathfinder #1 on Page 78 in the ‘Thassilon’ section, and covered in slightly more detail in Pathfinder #4 on pages 56-57 in the section about Stone Giants, although he apparently breaks from tradition in that despite his LE alignment, he does not grant his clerics access to the Evil domain.
As a quibble, Hermea lists as a religion ‘Secular ideology (Mengkare and the Glorious Endeavour)’, but unlike Rahadoum, where an unusual belief system (or rather lack of belief system) is in practice, does not include the direction ‘see below’ to indicate that it is explained in the main text for the country entry. Also on this theme, Razmiran gives a religion of ‘Ramzir (false god)’, but lacks a direction ‘see below’ to indicate that this is explained in the main text for the country entry.
Jalmeray lists amongst its religions ‘elementalism’ and ‘mysterious eastern religions’. There are some hints about these, spread between the main text of the Jalmeray entry and the ‘Vudra’ entry on pages 154-155 but very little of substance.
Mediogalti Island gives the religion as ‘Red Mantis God’, but leaves it at that, despite the fact that Achaekek (the Mantis God) is named in the ‘Other Gods’ section on pages 170-171.
The following Deities had the following countries indicated as centres (centers) of worship, but the ‘key info’ sections for the respective countries made no acknowledgement of that fact:
Abadar – Cheliax
Asmodeus – Cheliax, Isger, Nidal (but see below)
Calistria – Nex
Gozreh – Sodden Lands
Lamashtu – Worldwound (but see below)
Cheliax, Isger, and Nidal all mention ‘Diabolism’ in their religion sections of their key info blocks, which could be taken to include Asmodeus, BUT the Diabolism entry on Page 176 is very careful to draw a distinction between the belief system of Diabolism and the religion of Asmodeus worship. Given that this distinction IS made, it is my opinion that the church of Asmodeus could do with being listed as a Religion in the country entries for Cheliax, Isger, and Nidal.
Likewise, the Worldwound entry mentions ‘demon-worship’ in the religion section of the key info block, which could be taken to include Lamashtu. However, in this case, in the beliefs section on pages 176-177, there is not even a mention of demon-worship as a ‘belief system’, further adding uncertainty to this situation.
Also on the subject of the deity entries, Gorum and Rovagug both give ‘Hold of the Mammoth Lords’ as a centre (center) of worship, whereas the actual country is ‘Realm of the Mammoth Lords’.
The following ‘Philosophies’ had the following countries indicated as centres (centers) of belief, but the ‘key info’ sections for the respective countries made no acknowledgement of that fact:
The Green Faith – Andoran, Nirmathas
The Whispering Way – Geb, Ustalav
Minor Quibbles:
Whereas I had been led to believe by a Pathfinder Chat that the religions are listed in the 'key info' sections for countries in order of importance, the key info section in the entry for Osirion lists the 8 religions for that country in alphabetical order; it seems improbable to me that the relative importance of the country’s religions happens to be alphabetical, although I suppose that if several are ‘tied’ for any particular position of importance (and in that situation alphabetical listing becomes a default position), it becomes more likely.
Religions for the Shackles are likewise suspiciously alphabetical, except in this case, Besmara (a minor deity with an interest in piracy, strife, and sea monsters) appears to have been tacked on at the end.
Ustalav’s religions are arranged in alphabetical order, but given that there are only three of them, it seems much more probable to me than in Osirion’s case that this could correspond with the religions’ actual order of importance.
Hey, let me see if I can answer some of your questions!
Now, remember, I'm just a freelancer - a HUGE fan of Pathfinder, certainly, but not in any way an employee of Paizo or privy in to the dark secrets of the PFS staff.
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
The following Countries had the following deities listed in the ‘key info’ section, under religion, but the deities/belief systems did not admit in their entries to having any centre (or ‘center’ in US English) of worship there:
Mwangi Expanse – Gozreh
Nidal – Diabolism (belief system)
Having written up these two entries, I'll try to summarize:
Within the Mwangi Expanse, I centered the worship of Gozreh in Senghor - as you may have noticed, almost no information regarding the city of Senghor exists in the PCCS. This is my fault: I wrote almost 4300 words for a section that was supposed to be 3400 words, and something had to be cut. With a little luck, my write-up of Senghor, the House of Kind & Also Unkind Waves, and even the Beautiful Cruelness Raki-Kakiki will someday see print!
As for within Nidal, diabolists HAVE no center of worship - theirs is truly and deeply forbidden and illegal practice. The punishment for spreading the false faith of any god but Zon-Kuthon is excruciating & harrowing to even contemplate; apostates to the God of Shadows & Loss are the rarest of breeds within Nidal, and they do not congregate for fear of discovery. If there are some within Nidal who trade with devils, they are always careful.
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Jalmeray lists amongst its religions ‘elementalism’ and ‘mysterious eastern religions’. There are some hints about these, spread between the main text of the Jalmeray entry and the ‘Vudra’ entry on pages 154-155 but very little of substance.
This was on purpose - a mysterious eastern religion is not very mysterious if I give away all the secrets! My hope was to evoke the deepest kind of curiosity, and to leave the question open for each GM to invent esoteric practices of their own.
Boomer:
I had already noticed (and noted on page 3 of this thread), that the Senghor settlement received no write-up. :)
Word count being responsible for its being 'cut' explains where it went, anyway. It might be nice to some day see a 'directors cut' web-enhancement of the bits and pieces which due to space restrictions for the print copy didn't make it into the Campaign Setting. :D
The omission of the mention of the Mwangi Expanse as a centre (center) of worship in Gozreh’s entry (on Page 163) seems to me to be one of those things which may well have been missed in the rush to print for GenCon.
I'm not certain what to make of the idea that although Diabolism is a philosophy that is at least covertly supported in Nidal, it is logical that it is not mentioned as a centre (center) of belief on Page 176 in the 'Diabolism' entry. (Pardon me, if I ramble a little here, before eventually wending my way back to my point.) Diabolism is not worship of any particular god as such (in fact the Diabolism entry states that it is specifically NOT the worship of any deity, but an admiration of the structure and tenets of Hell) and espouses a similar LE outlook (including an interest in pain and suffering) to that of the church of Zon-Kuthon.
Desna is also listed as a religion in Nidal; on Page 110 (in the Nidal entry) the text makes reference that: '...among the unnamed foothills near Conqueror's Bay, hidden agents of the goddess Desna toil ceaselessly to undo the black works of Zon-Kuthon's faithful...', and the Desna entry (Page 162) lists Nidal as a centre (center) of worship. I would have thought that worshippers of a CG goddess opposed to Zon-Kuthon would have more to worry about than adherents of Diabolism.
Then again, given some of the edition wars which these and other messageboards have seen between people who ostensibly play different versions of the same ‘Role-Playing game’, maybe it’s not far fetched that Diabolists might be viewed as more of a threat than the church of Desna by followers of Zon-Kuthon. Either way, if it is not an error of omission (or inclusion!) that a religion/belief system is important enough to register in a country entry, but not to be listed as a centre (center) of worship/belief, I start trying to find an explanation…
As ever, thank-you Boomer for taking the time to stop and post on this thread.
Charles Evans 25 wrote: As ever, thank-you Boomer for taking the time to stop and post on this thread. Glad to be of help! And remember: NOTHING said here is canon. I'm just a guy. A guy who loves Pathfinder, and who was lucky enough to get to write some stuff for Paizo. Stuff which, might I add, DID go through editors & was changed in a NUMBER of instances.
My $0.02 is worth EXACTLY as much as your own!
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Word count being responsible for its being 'cut' explains where it went, anyway. It might be nice to some day see a 'directors cut' web-enhancement of the bits and pieces which due to space restrictions for the print copy didn't make it into the Campaign Setting. :D
I've no doubt that detailed information on Senghor is on its way - the city is simply too big and too cool-sounding to NOT get a full write-up! I wouldn't be surprised, honestly, to see it become the centerpiece of an entire adventure or plot arc!
As such, I just hope that SOME of my ideas - now the property of Paizo LLC - make it into the final version ... because then I would be at a real advantage during an adventure set there!
Charles Evans 25 wrote: The omission of the mention of the Mwangi Expanse as a centre (center) of worship in Gozreh’s entry (on Page 163) seems to me to be one of those things which may well have been missed in the rush to print for GenCon. I doubt, honestly, that it was an oversight - the "nationality" of Gozreh is listed as Mwangi, but it may actually be that the god is not worshipped in any 'centralized' way within the Expanse - another mystery that adds to the setting, as far as I'm concerned.
NOTE: on the map on pg. 105, the appearance of something called "Gozreh's Pool" south of the Jasut Flow and north-east of the Ocota River. Interesting?
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Diabolism is not worship of any particular god as such (in fact the Diabolism entry states that it is specifically NOT the worship of any deity, but an admiration of the structure and tenets of Hell) and espouses a similar LE outlook (including an interest in pain and suffering) to that of the church of Zon-Kuthon. Good point! Therefore, diabolism is seen as a serious threat to the fascist, theocratic military dictatorship of Nidal: all power, and all order, flows directly from the Black Will of Zon-Kuthon. Those who worship or serve Hell cannot be trusted, for their loyalties lie to a false and evil faith.
The fact that the two religions are so similar (in tenet as well as methods & ideology) is actually one of the reasons for their antagonistic relationship - both are philosophies of jack-booted betrayers, torturers, schemers and poisoners, each at the other's throat.
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Desna is also listed as a religion in Nidal; on Page 110 (in the Nidal entry) the text makes reference that: '...among the unnamed foothills near Conqueror's Bay, hidden agents of the goddess Desna toil ceaselessly to undo the black works of Zon-Kuthon's faithful...', and the Desna entry (Page 162) lists Nidal as a centre (center) of worship. I would have thought that worshippers of a CG goddess opposed to Zon-Kuthon would have more to worry about than adherents of Diabolism. The worship of Desna in Nidal is differentiated from that of diabolists due to a number of concerns, the biggest one being the reprecussions for discovery:
A fool-hardy diabolist, caught in Pangolais & executed by order of the Black Triune, can expect nothing but an eternity of torment for failing his masters at bringing the Shadow to the heel and whim of Hell.
The brave & questing faithful of Desna, however, if martyred in the same way can expect to be remembered in song for ages; theirs was the ultimate sacrifice, broken on the racks of the Foul One for attempting to sweep aside the darkness that blocks the stars.
Charles Evans 25 wrote: Then again, given some of the edition wars which these and other messageboards have seen between people who ostensibly play different versions of the same ‘Role-Playing game’, maybe it’s not far fetched that Diabolists might be viewed as more of a threat than the church of Desna by followers of Zon-Kuthon. Either way, if it is not an error of omission (or inclusion!) that a religion/belief system is important enough to register in a country entry, but not to be listed as a centre (center) of worship/belief, I start trying to find an explanation… I think you're right on the money with that!
Clinton Boomer wrote: The brave & questing faithful of Desna, however, if martyred in the same way can expect to be remembered in song for ages; theirs was the ultimate sacrifice, broken on the racks of the Foul One for attempting to sweep aside the darkness that blocks the stars. Nice!
James Jacobs:
Query:
The Norgorber entry on page 166 mentions of his church being split into four groups- Thieves, Politicians & spies, assassins, and Skinsaw.
I was wondering if:
(1) are these groups representative of alignment splits (roughly speaking), and if so how? (Are the politicians & spies mostly LE, the thieves mostly N, etc?)
(2) if these are alignment splits along the basis of NE and the three 'adjacent' alignments, does the 'True' Neutral group have any clerics under 3.5 rules? (If I understand correctly, under 3.5 rules, clerics can not be 'true' neutral unless their deity is; of course Golarion could be an exception to this generally, in which case it could say so in the cleric section (Page 43), or Norgorber could be an exception specifically (in which case it could state so in his entry).) As a further note, under PFRPG, the restriction on neutrality seems to have disappeared, (at least in the Beta) meaning this problem is moot anyway.
If he has not already considered and dealt with it, this latter point may be of interest to Mr. Frost, since it has ramifications for Pathfinder Society characters, and the pdf guide for players.
Charles Evans 25 wrote: James Jacobs:
Query:
The Norgorber entry on page 166 mentions of his church being split into four groups- Thieves, Politicians & spies, assassins, and Skinsaw.
I was wondering if:
(1) are these groups representative of alignment splits (roughly speaking), and if so how? (Are the politicians & spies mostly LE, the thieves mostly N, etc?)
(2) if these are alignment splits along the basis of NE and the three 'adjacent' alignments, does the 'True' Neutral group have any clerics under 3.5 rules? (If I understand correctly, under 3.5 rules, clerics can not be 'true' neutral unless their deity is; of course Golarion could be an exception to this generally, in which case it could say so in the cleric section (Page 43), or Norgorber could be an exception specifically (in which case it could state so in his entry).) As a further note, under PFRPG, the restriction on neutrality seems to have disappeared, (at least in the Beta) meaning this problem is moot anyway.
If he has not already considered and dealt with it, this latter point may be of interest to Mr. Frost, since it has ramifications for Pathfinder Society characters, and the pdf guide for players.
They aren't really alignment splits. The majority of Norgorber's clerics are neutral evil, and that carrie over among his four religious factions' clerics. In any case, Norgorber doesn't have any neutral clerics. Whether or not we keep or kill the restriction on neutral clerics is up in the air; my preference is to kill it. It won't matter for the Patfhinder Society until August 2009, in any event.
Page 68 details Cheliax's severed connection from Korvosa/ Varisia due to Molthune's rebellion, but also lists Nidal's support. Molthune is NE of CHeliax and out of the way from Varisia, whereas Nidal is NW and closer to Korvosa/ Varisia. Since Nidal is supportive, what hinders Cheliax from a naval or land route to Korvosa since Molthune seems out of the way. Is the rebellion drawing away enough resources that Cheliax simply can't afford to pay Korvosa any attention, despite Nidal being strategically located just a little south of Varisia?
I'm only a player in the C.o.t.C.T., and if any of this info is a spoiler, than I don't need to know the answer . . . for now.
DarkArt wrote: Page 68 details Cheliax's severed connection from Korvosa/ Varisia due to Molthune's rebellion, but also lists Nidal's support. Molthune is NE of CHeliax and out of the way from Varisia, whereas Nidal is NW and closer to Korvosa/ Varisia. Since Nidal is supportive, what hinders Cheliax from a naval or land route to Korvosa since Molthune seems out of the way. Is the rebellion drawing away enough resources that Cheliax simply can't afford to pay Korvosa any attention, despite Nidal being strategically located just a little south of Varisia?
I'm only a player in the C.o.t.C.T., and if any of this info is a spoiler, than I don't need to know the answer . . . for now.
Cheliax has no interest in invading Varisia; that's the main reason they don't pay Korvosa attention. Cheliax made a MAJOR expansion move in recent history, and overextended its resources, and then the core of their religious society died and the whole nation was plunged into chaos. Cheliax now is more timid than it was during its expansion days as a result, and while they do maintain trade relations with Varisia, for now Cheliax isn't interested in returning to a more aggressive stance northword. Cost too much resources for too little gain.
That makes sense. I think the key misunderstanding for me was the intent. I was thinking trade, and maintaining simple ties to Korvosa, but "invasion" was the meat of the matter.
When I started playing C.o.t.C.T., my impression was that Korvosa was cut off, and that no successful contact had been made to Cheliax, and vice-versa, and with the Campaign Setting's reference, I was misunderstanding the big picture.
I can clearly see, that, if invasion was the scope of Cheliax' interest, that Varisia would be small potatoes.
Thank you for the reply.
In addition to what James Jacobs has posted, with regard to land invasion by Cheliax into Varisia (if Cheliax felt so inclined), the major route over the Mindspin Mountains, if I understand the situation correctly, is The Bloodsworn Vale, to which Nirmathas controls the eastern access.
In a Golarion-style fantasy setting I think it would usually be difficult for most armies to cross major mountain ranges (and to keep their supply lines flowing unless magical gates are available) except via such significant passes.
The Inner Sea, and the major civilisation centres there (and what naval attention Andoran doesn't get is probably focused on the Shackles pirates who had the nerve to help Sargava rebel and who attack and loot vessels indiscriminately including Chelish ones) I imagine is so much more interesting to Cheliax than a grubby frontier region, with only a handful of settlements of note (one of which, Korvosa, has a strong pro-Cheliax sentiment anyway, if Chelish trade or political interests need somewhere 'safe' in Varisia to operate from).
Gah! Ones I thought I’d covered earlier, but checking the thread, missed; I think it must have been one of those occasions where the original post was swallowed by the thread slaad, and I didn’t have a backup copy, so rewrote from scratch and ended up missing some things in the rewrite…
P. 72 “Druma” wrote: …adherants to the Prophecies of Kalistrade… ‘adherants’ should be ‘adherents’?
“Druma” wrote: …and lavishly well equipped in its protection of the Kallistocrats and their most valued possessions… Query:
Druma is a ‘Kalistocracy’. The principle belief system of the country rotates around the Prophecies of Kalistrade. In both of these forms, the ‘l’ of ‘Kalistocracy’ and of ‘Kalistrade’ is single. Is it correct that it should be doubled to ‘ll’ for ‘Kallistocrat’?
In addition to any previously unanswered questions, is it possible that the Earthfall event took out one or more of the Star Towers? (See Pathfinder #11, Page 52 for Star Towers).
Do Rovagug's followers roam Golarion actively seeking for Star Towers and the means to destroy them, or are sufficient 'knocked out' now for their specific needs?
Apologies, but owing to various events and distractions I am uncertain when/if I may be posting here next.
Some Varisian errata/typos I missed earlier:
P. 144 “Varisia” wrote: ..misplaced. The runelords wrested… This is one of those lines in the print version of the Campaign Setting where the words are squashed up close together.
“Varisia” wrote: …arbiters, and a monarchy of kings and… This is one of those lines in the print version of the Campaign Setting where the words are squashed up close together.
“Varisia” wrote: …Chelaxian soldiers drove the warlike Shoanti into the rugged regions to the northeast… Query: Was ‘Chelaxian’ actually the word intended, highlighting the racial stock of the soldiers, or is this a case where ‘Chelish’ was meant?
P. 145 “Varisia” wrote: …until leaders strong enough to unite several tribes at once take hold. Minor Quibble: I would prefer ‘emerge’ to ‘take hold’, as ‘take hold’ makes such leaders seem like a flu virus to me… :D
P. 146 “Varisia” wrote: Kaer-Maga: Varisia’s most notorious city, Kaer-Maga perches atop one of the highest runs of the Storval Rise, overlooking the verdant lands to the south. Built into and onto the ruins of an immense Thassilonian fortress, the denizens of Kaer-Maga enjoy anarchy in its purest form. All manner of strange factions hold court in Kaer-Maga’s halls, from the bloodthirsty bloatmages to the militant monks of the Brothers of the Seal to the grisly augurs- troll soothsayers who use their own entrails to prophesize with questionably accuracy. Kaer Maga is repeatedly hyphenated in this subentry, but is not hyphenated in the key info summary at the start of the Varisia entry, is not hyphenated on either the Varisia local map (Page 145) or on the ‘world map’ at the back of the Campaign setting, and is not hyphenated in the ‘Pathfinder Journal’ on Pages 72-79 of Pathfinder #3 (the latter concerning a visit to Kaer Maga, and repeatedly mentioning the city’s name). Should it be ‘Kaer-Maga’, ‘Kaer Maga’ or are the two freely interchangeable?
Quibble: Are bloatmages in Kaer Maga actually ‘bloodthirsty’, enjoying violence and gore, or was something else meant?
Minor layout problem in Ustalav …
P. 140 “Ustalav” wrote: …territory and familial rights. In the… This line is one of the ones in the print version of the Campaign Setting where the words are very close to one another. There are several others nearly as badly cramped in the same section on the left-hand side of the key info block.
DM Reference question:
P. 140 “Ustalav” wrote: …In the face of civil war, the country was divided into 16 counties, formally establishing the domains of the land’s most influential families… I can only find reference to fourteen counties in the Ustalav entry, at best: Amaans, Ardeal, Barstoi, Caliphas, Canterwall (palatinate, formerly county of Tamrivena?), Grodlych (now part of ‘Virlych’), Lozeri (palatinate), Odranto, Sinaria, Ulcazar, Varno, Versex, Vieland (palatinate) and Virholt (now part of ‘Virlych’). As far as I can make out, from the Count Aericnein Neska subentry on Page 143, the area now known as ‘The Furrows’, was part of the counties of Ardeal and Barstoi before it was laid waste in the recent civil war.
However, I do find, in the Lastwall entry, on Page 90, the following quote: “Lastwall” wrote: …Commandeering the Ustalavan town of Vellumis, the forces of Taldor, aided by the dwarven kingdom of Kraggoddan and the knights of Ozem… The town of Vellumis, if accurately placed on the world map, seems to be well over fifty miles from the current Ustalav border, as the crow flies. Were either one or both these ‘missing’ Ustalav counties incorporated into Lastwall?
P. 165 “Nethys” wrote: …Nethys is not known for showing favor or wrath to his followers or enemies, a fact that many of his worshipers hold with some pride – they are quick to point out to other faiths that their god does not patronize them or coddle them with frustrating dreams or bizarre omens – traits that generally do not endear the faithful to members of other churches. This quote seems to me to imply that Nethys is exclusive in not showing either favour (sorry, UK spelling) or displeasure. However, for the record, the following deities do not have examples of how they show favour and/or displeasure indicated in their Campaign Setting entries in the Religion chapter:
Asmodeus – page 160. (No favour or displeasure indicated).
Desna – page 162. (Favour is indicated, displeasure absent).
Iomedae – page 164. (No favour or displeasure indicated).
Irori – page 164. (No favour or displeasure indicated).
Lamashtu – page 165. (Favour is indicated, displeasure absent).
Norgorber – page 166. (No favour or displeasure indicated).
Rovagug – page 167. (No favour or displeasure indicated).
Torag – page 168. (Details sketchy on favour, mention restricted (I surmise) to ‘surviving an earthquake’; displeasure is indicated).
Urgathoa – page 168. (Details sketchy on favour, mention restricted to transformation into undead; displeasure absent).
Zon-Kuthon – page 169. (No favour or displeasure indicated).
Whilst Pathfinder # 2’s article on Desna goes into greater detail regarding signs of Desna’s favour (and mentions signs of her displeasure such as sore feet or unrefreshing sleep), and Pathfinder #5’s article on Lamashtu gives details of her displeasure (aching joints, nightmares, etc) the article in Pathfinder #11 on Zon-Kuthon makes no mention of favour or displeasure that I could determine on a quick read through.
I appreciate that it may be for reasons of space, that some of these may have been cut or left out of the Campaign Setting, and I do not currently possess a copy of the deities book with which I could check up on details in there; for the ease of DMs, would it be possible to have a quick summary here of a couple of examples of favour/displeasure for any such signs/omens omitted from the Campaign Setting entries, please?
Sorry for the gap in posting but I have been busy trying to grapple with an OC Submission for PFS #19 & #20. I hope to be able to resume shortly. As an additional note, I now have a copy of Gods & Magic and may be able to skim through that to locate some of the points raised in my previous post, if official posters are too busy.
*Link* to the DM Reference/Errata thread for Gods and Magic which I have posted.
P. 161 “Calistria” wrote: …and only tertially a place for carnal release… ‘tertially’ seems a very obscure word (and I cannot locate it in a quick trawl through online dictionaries); is it spelt correctly?
Also, as a minor quibble, in the context of what goes before it, I would prefer to see an ‘as’ added: ‘...tertially’ (or any word you wish to substitute) ‘as a place for...’.
P. 162 “Desna” wrote: …Since that day, all those who look up to the stars find themselves wandering in the endless mysteries of the sky… Should ‘wandering’ be ‘wondering’?
“Desna” wrote: …as do caravaneers and those who travel for business… Comment: I wasn’t too certain on the use of ‘caravaneers’ as a word, but it reads more romantically than ‘camel drivers’ and has been used in Faerûn books.
“Desna” wrote: …palace called Cynosure, visibile in the northern night sky… ‘visibile’ should be ‘visible’?
“Erastil” wrote: …Erastil’s followers often mount about their fireplace a carven wooden placard depicting their god’s image… The dictionaries which I have consulted have all agreed that a placard (noun) is something like a sign/notice for public display, or a small plaque, such as a small name plaque on a door. I am not certain how either of these can be mounted ‘about’ a fireplace; ‘above’, yes, ‘about’, no.
It is possible that I just need a bigger or more archiac dictionary! :)
Comment: No mention is made in the Erastil entry that according to the article on Stone Giants in Pathfinder #3, Erastil is also a deity of (and venerated by) giants. I'm not sure if this is a problem, and mention it in case Erastil’s veneration by giants is something so important it ought to be touched upon in his deity entry. Whilst the Calistria entry mentions her connecton to elves, the Gorum entry makes no reference to his veneration by half-orcs (covered in the half orc racial entry on pages 14-15, so there seems to be some flexibility existing elsewhere on whether or not a deity being venerated by a non-human race gets mentioned in that deity's entry.
“Gozreh” wrote: …Gozreh’s temples always open to the sky above and often contain some sort of pool or open water at their heart… Uncertainty: Something about this sentence simply strikes me as jarring. It could be a lack of ‘are’ before ‘always’ or it might be that I would normally expect to see ‘…always open to the skies above…’. Either and/or both of these are really only quibbles.
“Gozreh” wrote: …Travelers preparing for a long ocean journey frequently seek the council of his clerics… In UK English, I would say that this should be ‘counsel’ (advice) rather than ‘council’ (collection of elders/officials), but I don't know if US English uses ‘council’ for both forms.
I am uncertain if with regard to ocean voyages, it should be ‘…of her clerics…’ since “Gozreh” wrote: …When at sea, or over water, Gozreh is a woman… although if you are setting off from some distance inland to reach the start point of your voyage “Gozreh” wrote: …In the sky and over land, Gozreh appears as an aged man… they would more likely be ‘his clerics’…
“Gozreh” wrote: …druids do turn to deities for guidance and inspiration. Of these… This line starts looking mysteriously squashed up in word spacing towards the end of it in the print version of the Campaign Setting. (It could be the fault of the ‘f’ in ‘of these’.)
“Gozreh” wrote: …Of these, Gozreh is easilly the most common choice… ‘easilly’ should be ‘easily’?
For DM Reference:
Some updates on Zon-Kuthon that I’ve edited together from recent Pathfinder Chats:
Regarding Star-towers:
“James Jacobs” wrote: Zon-Kuthon put in the star towers before he "went away" if I remember correctly... he did the towers before his transformation, and they started falling apart after he got back, and he hasn't neglected them but he's no longer as interested in what they were originally for. But they're still sacred or special to him, so he does have guardians there.
The whole thing isn't 100% worked out yet regarding the Star Towers. I had it mostly figured out somewhere, but haven't thought about it for a long time.
<There was a question for James Jacobs here asking if the deflected prayers [deflected by the star towers] benefit Zon-Kuthon directly in anyway?>
Unknown.
I'd have to go back and re-read what was in Pathfinder 11 to spur my memory.
We'll probably not say much more about the Star Towers until Pathfinder #23, I suspect, when we do the big article about Rovagug.
On the subject of how Zon-Kuthon shows favour/displeasure: “James Jacobs” wrote: Zon-Kuthon is never pleased. He's always pissed off.
<James Jacobs consulted personal files at this point…>
Alas... no news about Zon-Kuthon's methods of showing displeasure. I suspect he'd show it by having the unlucky soul suddenly bleed from an unexpected orifice, or suddenly manifest hideous painful wounds, or suddenly go blind.
P. 165 “Lamashtu” wrote: …typically venerated by monstrous races, such as gnolls, medusas, and goblins… Query: ‘medusas’ is to be the official plural form of ‘medusa’ for use in Golarion?
“Nethys” wrote: …Formal ceremonies in the church require an elaborate robe, skullcap, mozzetta, and hood, all in similar… As far as I can determine, the definition of a ‘mozzetta’ is a ‘short cape with an ornamental hood’, so do the clerics actually wear an additional hood as well as the one which comes as part of the mozzetta- as the Nethys entry seems to indicate- or is this an error?
P. 166 “Norgorber” wrote: …Those who call him the Reaper of Reputation venerate him primarilly as the god of secrets… ‘primarilly’ should be ‘primarily’?
For DM Reference
Golarion’s version of Leng and the Dreamlands:
The following is something I’ve edited together from a recent Pathfinder Chat:
“James Jacobs” wrote: Leng is a region inside of the Dreamlands, and the Dreamlands are like the ethereal plane. They're more properly termed a "dimension" that overlays the real world.
Dream probably overlays each planet; each planet has its own dreamlands, and in some cases, they share Dreamlands with other planets. I suspect Golarion's Dreamlands and Earth's Dreamlands are the same.
Leng is a region IN the Dreamlands. Each planet has its own Dreamlands, but in some cases, they share those dreamlands with other planets. Earth and Golarion's Dreamlands are the same, I think.
The dreamlands are VERY difficult to visit physically. Normally, you can only get there if you're a skilled dreamer.
Gate works though. You could certainly plane shift to the Dreamlands, but I bet it's tough, since I bet the tuning fork focus only exists as a dream and that makes it hard to pick up in reality.
<A question was asked regarding Lovecraftian-style ghouls in Golarion, which might travel between the Dreamlands and the material plane>
Lovecraftian ghouls exist in Golarion. They live in the middle Darklands of Sekamina under Osirion, and certainly exist in the Dreamlands as well.
Query, James Jacobs:
Is it possible that Golarion’s ‘lost continent’ of Sarusan may either partially or entirely exist within Golarion’s Dreamlands, having either been ‘lost’ there via some catastrophe, or in fact having always been a part of it?
In the case of Sarusan existing entirely within Golarion’s Dreamlands, the explorers who occasionally ‘discover’ Sarusan might reach it by travelling (without realising it) through a non-obvious planar rift or conduit, resulting in it never occurring to them that they have left Golarion (or returned if they make it back in one piece)?
P. 167 “Rovagug” wrote: …Many of his faithful believe that the Earthfall awoke their god, and that the time of his freedom is fast approaching. Foremost among his stirrings are the so-called spawn of Rovagug… Quibble: I get the sense, I think, of what the writer is trying to convey, but could it not be phrased more elegantly than ‘…Foremost among his stirrings…’? Maybe ‘…Foremost amongst the signs of his stirrings…’?
“Sarenrae” wrote: …Temples are open-air buildings (with satellite buildings having ceilings) open to the sky, sometimes with large brass or gold mirrors on high points to reflect more light toward the altar… Comment: In contrast to the Gozreh entry the reference to ‘open to the sky’ doesn’t bother me nearly so much here, possibly because there is no ‘above’ following it. It’s peculiar.
Query: If a temple is one of those where there are large brass or gold mirrors reflecting light towards the altar, do priests officiating in ceremonies at the altar at that temple have any means (spells, granted abilities, special sacred equipment?) to avoid being constantly dazzled on sunny days? If not, might being constantly dazzled be considered some important test of devotion to the goddess, or a holy sacrament?
(I will copy this last query to the Gods and Magic thread too, since the text in 'Gods and Magic' describing temples is practically identical.)
P. 168 “Torag” wrote: …Temples tend to be circular, built around a large central and fully-functional forge and satellite anvils used for even mundane tasks, for every act of smelting and smithing is considered a prayer to Torag… Would it be possible for someone to look again at the punctuation and structure of this sentence? At the very least I think it would be helpful to replace the comma after ‘mundane tasks’ with a dash or perhaps a semicolon, and replacing ‘forge and satellite anvils’ with ‘forge with satellite anvils’ might read better.
“Torag” wrote: …Yet despite this loathing, Torag’s followers do not get on well with those of Sarenrae, since their willingness to forgive and their devotion to the sun seem to many dwarves an indication of weakness. Quibble: The ‘since their’ seems to me to be indeterminate. Is it the followers of Sarenrae’s willingness to forgive and their devotion to the sun that seems to be an indication of weakness or the followers of Torag’s willingness to forgive and their devotion to the sun? From information elsewhere, it seems likely to me that the ‘…since their willingness to forgive…’ in fact means ‘…since the latter’s willingness to forgive…’ in which case why not use those words?
P. 169
One I seem to have missed when I was going over the Zon-Kuthon entry earlier in the thread: “Zon-Kuthon” wrote: …He came back to a world benighted by in the Age of Darkness, weeping tears of hateful joy at the prize he found before him… ‘…benighted by in the…’ seems a peculiar turn of phrase; would it be possible to drop either the ‘by’ or the ‘in’ since it seems to me to be confusing to use both when one of them would do?
By the way; the heading for the Zon-Kuthon entry at the top of page 169 seems to use a lower case ‘k’ for ‘kuthon’, whereas in the entry itself he is consistently referred to as ‘Zon-Kuthon’, not ‘Zon-kuthon’.
P. 170 “Achaekek (He Who Walks in Blood)” wrote: …The Mantis God itself does not actively seek worshipers, but it has them nonetheless – He Who Walks in Blood is the divine patron… Minor Quibble: Achaekek is refered to with ‘itself’ and ‘it’, but then later with the male ‘He’, so Achaekek could be referred to with ‘himself’ and ‘he’ in place of ‘itself’ and ‘it’ in the first part of the sentence that I quote above. I realise that this may have been a matter of style though, trying to convey a sense of alien insectness.
“Achaekek (He Who Walks in Blood)” wrote: …Achaekek’s symbol is a pair of red manits claws… ‘manits’ should be ‘mantis’?
“Aroden (The Last Azlanti)” wrote: …Aroden’s symobl is of a… ‘symobl’ should be ‘symbol’?
“Ghlaunder (The Gossamer King)” wrote: …Often, as the parasites they venerate, a cultist of Ghlaunder will serve a village as priest, posing as the faithful of an obscure cult or pagan religion while slowly encouraging worship practices that bring the locals unknowing closer to the Gossamer King… For a start, should ‘unknowing’ be ‘unknowingly’? Even assuming that that is so, there still seems to me to be something wrong with the first part of this sentence, as I cannot make sense of it except by removing the ‘as the parasites they venerate’ part of it.
“Groetus (God of the End Times)” wrote: …world, Groetus has no organized faith. Most of his worshipers are… This is one of those lines which in the print version of the Campaign Setting has the words squashed up close together.
P. 171 As has been mentioned elsewhere, Groetus’ ability to grant the ‘Void’ domain is omitted from the table of ‘Ten Other Gods’.
P. 172 “Sivanah (The Seventh Veil)” wrote: …; she can appear as any of those races while wearing the appropriate veil, but that she herself is an unknown seventh that masks her true race… Quibble: The latter part of this sentence doesn’t seem to make any sense to me. I would prefer ‘…but she herself is the unknown seventh veil that masks her true race…’ or to see it moved in front of the semicolon at the start of the passage I quote above to join preceding information (not quoted by me here) which talks about the first six veils.
“Zyphus (The Grim Harvestman)” wrote: …can only be explained by the influence of a malevolent, hateful force, something that seeks to bring ruin and sadness into the world. Unfortunately, there is some truth to this belief in the godling known as Zyphus… Quibble: I would prefer to see a dash perhaps substituted for the comma between ‘hateful force’ and ‘something’?
Minor quibble: ‘Zyphus’ is not actually named (save for in the heading) in the entry up until the latter part of the quote above. It seems rather sudden, and I would prefer something like: ‘…Unfortunately, there is some truth to this belief, in the shape of the godling known as Zyphus…’
Hey Charles - when you're ready to leave your high paying job, sell your home, and move near PAIZO - there is an internship waiting for you;)
Girt your loins, take up thy staff - and follow James and Erik!
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Creative Director
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