Well i just got this book after a poster was saying how good it is and i have to agree with it, infact i am sorry to say i that i may give up on PF and try to support Arcana evolved. the classes are well balanced, the magic system is great and it allows melee and caster classes to play nice with each other. Overall its what i wanted from PF but all i got was a power up of all classes and while some things seems to be getting fix, too many other things are being changed that should not be. I know this is beta still but i dont think there will be much change from beta to final, the same as there was little change from alpha 3 to beta. this is all IMO, i think jason should look at this book and now with Monte onboard should get some of the stuff from it into PF, it can only make it better.
Poking around their web site I got the impression that Monte Cook had more or less abandoned Arcana Evolved. The website hasn't been updated in something like 2 years. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
I haven't bought the books but I probably would have if I thought they had any future. I've heard a lot of positive things about them.
Malhavoc Press is pretty much out of publishing new gaming products (BoXM and BoXM II notwithstanding). Arcana Evolved support continues with a few third party publishers, most notably Fiery Dragon, who just put out an adventure, and Rite Publishing, who have just released a couple short supplements. There's a press release due from Rite Publishing Monday that will be pretty cool.
That said, AE is probably compatible with Pathfinder and the world of Golarion with just a few tweaks. However, I'd be very surprised to find Paizo supporting it in any official way. They're busy enough with all this cool Pathfinder stuff!
Edit: I have personally met a lot of people who like to use AE classes and races in either homebrew settings or in the default setting of the Diamond Throne. YMMV.
As advertised, it's an "alternate Player's Handbook" and you can use almost any aspect of it in a 3rd Ed. game, and so it shouldn't be a problem with PF either.
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Steven, I'm completely on board with you. I didn't like the (ever so slight) increase in power level of the new PF core classes, and I've all too long neglected my Arcana Evolved. It's an awesome product.
Never mind the the shortage of published adventures, there are two novels/collections of short stories set in the Diamond Throne written by great adventure writers (including Wolfgang Baur and Eric Boyd). These should give you a head start on adventure ideas for the Diamond Throne. The books are called "Children of the Rune" and "The Dragons Return". Both are edited (naturally) by Monte himself.
Be sure to check out the Arcana Evolved boards on OkayYourTurn - lots of adventure ideas there as well. Also, Monte integrated his world with his city setting Ptolus, for which he wrote three (!) campaigns, two of which take you from level 1 to level 20. I daresay if you go with that you won't run out of adventure material in years.
I agree.
On my point on view Monte's rules development are one of the best ever. Sadly he seemed to fall behind of the development of adventures and products.
Sadly I think Monte's better on developing rules than flavour. Of course he has many GREAT adventures on his name!
Cheers Monte on whatever you are doing now
thanks and i just read about multiclassing and fell off my chair!! it actually fixes all the yells about multclassing caster in a simple way
Spellcasting: If a character has two spellcasting classes, add
the spell slot and spells readied at one time totals together. If the
two different classes use different key ability scores for their spellcasting,
the player should simply choose which of the abilities to
use; once made, the choice can’t be altered. The caster gains
bonus spells based on only one ability score (not both)wow simple and to the point, am sorry PF but it looks like i am going this way, i may try to merge the 2 as i do like parts of PF but my plans to help betatest for then next year have just fallen apart with this better IMO product.
So I'm missing something here... when you multi-class caster levels you just add additional spells to your spell list? What about spells/day progression? Just assume for a minute it's a wizard 5/ cleric 2, how many spells/day would she have and of which classes? What about caster level?
I'm the one who first brought up Arcana Evolved, I think. I'm not that big a fan--I don't like the built-in flavor of the "Diamond Throne" setting (except the Oathsworn, who are straight out of Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant), the races and such--but it's a very well-designed alternate version of 3.5 mechanically. Very well-balanced. Monte Cook doesn't always do great work, but this is one of his best.
I like to use Arcana Evolved to make points about D&D balance, because I hear people say, for example, "it's impossible to make spellcasters balanced, they use MAGIC, magic can do anything!"
In short, many of the problems Pathfinder is or should be trying to fix haphazardly, Arcana Evolved fixed years ago in a coherent, built-into-the-design manner. I recommend that people take a look at it. And by "people" I mean "especially Jason & Co".
I've been playing Arcana Evolved for a couple years now, back when it was Arcana Unearthed. It's a great system: Well thought out, great magic system, great class system, among others. Problem is most people don't seem to like it's flavor. I can't figure out why.
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Just wanted to add a quick "kudos!" to the Arcana Evolved and Arcana Unearthed books. I've never been able to run AE, to my regret. People around here are in a total love affair with D&D. But, I own all of AU/AE's products and I love them all. It is a great system with terrific classes and a great magic system. I like the Diamond Throne as a setting, too.
I encourage anyone to try it out if they have a group willing to go off the beaten path.
Off-topic, but I think AU/AE is Mr. Cook's best work. His d20 World of Darkness effort was the low point in his gaming career.
Speaking of adventures for AE, there are a number both on Monte's site and on www.diamondthrone.com. These are all free for download.
Also, for the fans, you might want to note that after many years in the making, the Lands of the Jade Oath supplement has found an aggressive publisher to bring it to market:
http://www.ritepublishing.com/landsofthejadeoath.html
I love AE. I bought it few years ago but sadly only ran a couple of sessions. Players found it a bit funny (especially with the game missing staple enemies like Orcs), and as a DM I found it a bit more complicated to run (especially the magic part because of all the different spells and new feats that modify spells)
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I've been GMing a Ptolus / AE campaign for a little over two years now and my players absolutely love it.
The combination of Ptolus with its wealth of detail and information with the well-balanced AE races & classes have made for the best campaign I've ever run.
(We've been playing together for 15+ years.)
When my current campaign ends (mid next year), I'm planning to run a Ptolus / AE / Pathfinder campaign -- with Ptolus set as the city of Absalom.
Should be lots of fun. I encourage anyone who hasn't done it to give AE a try.
Arcana Evolved has a lot of really great stuff. I share the general dislike of jackal-people and lion-people, etc. as PC races, but the faen are pretty cool -- and the overall game mechanics are indeed superlative.
The world itself didn't interest me but the magic has alot of potential.
I have added the spell templates to my spells that are in Thassilonian. I never felt they were "special" enough to be these rare, not heard of spells with a -10 on the roll, but end up being a normal spell in all other respects. I wanted the players to feel that the magic of these ancient people was powerful and different then what is available now. The templates really help with that. Plus the spells that are castable at three different power levels also makes for just added neatness. Why use your magic missile when you have flaming missiles of Kakatal. I added Fire, Runic, Eldritch to the spell, just to give it some fun. It does take some time to make them up and get the exact feel you want but it adds something really neat and my players seem to enjoy it, esp the Wizards.
Cheers Monte on whatever you are doing now
Last think I heard he helps a bunch of nutjobs to develop their own 3.5e+. Some loony company with a name like Pie Zoo or something... ;-P
(or without the friendly banter: He's helping with the development of Pathfinder RPG right now)
Regarding the comments about a lack of support for Arcana Evolved; has anyone here seen the announcement about Lands of the Jade Oath to be published by Rite Publishing? I apologize for being so brazen as to be tooting my own horn, but I think that anyone interested in AE might also be interested in Lands of the Jade Oath. It is an oriental setting that uses AE as the basis for its game mechanics, utilizing all of AEs rules and incorporating elements from the core rules as well as new and original game elements all its own. The setting focuses on many of the various cultures of Asia - much as Kara Tur did - with an emphasis on Chinese culture and mythology. It already has a landscape triptych painting by Wayne Reynolds that will serve as cover art.
The first PDF to be released for this setting will be "Heroes of the Jade Oath". It is basically like a player's guide for the setting with new classes like the Enlightened Scholar, Demon Hunter, Kensai, and Kusa; new races such as the Mandragorans, Bakemono, Hushen, and Shenxue; variant races from AE and the core rules; variant classes from the core rules; and over 150 new feats. It is a patronage project for which the initial manuscript is already done. Patrons can get special priveleges and senior patrons can get playest access to the manuscript as well as contribute input for decisions on the full color interior art. Later PDFs will be "Arts of the Jade Oath" and "Secrets of the Jade Oath".
If you are interested and would like to know more you can check out the public announcement and setting description at the publisher's website at www.ritepublishing.com. Be sure to check out the page for Lands of the Jade Oath once you get there.
My group loves the AE system, but hates the classes. Most of them: I love the classes -- so much power and fluff. They think the AE classes are too pigeon holed and can't be altered to fit their own themes, while 3.5 are so generic they can make whatever stories they want.
Now that they've seen and played 4e, though, I think they will like AE a bit more.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'll add the Jade Oath stuff to my reading list. liek most Gaijin I'm a sucker for things Asian*.
Is it just Japan-centric or China/India/Korea, etc.
I do like the races, I'm itching to play a Dracha fighter type. Big noble dragon warrior.
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Cheers Monte on whatever you are doing nowLast think I heard he helps a bunch of nutjobs to develop their own 3.5e+. Some loony company with a name like Pie Zoo or something... ;-P
(or without the friendly banter: He's helping with the development of Pathfinder RPG right now)
He's also writing a (non-fiction, non-gaming) book about conspiracy theories, which I am going to snap up as soon as it hits shelves.
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He's also writing a (non-fiction, non-gaming) book about conspiracy theories, which I am going to snap up as soon as it hits shelves.I heard he has a ghost wrtier, and some member of the Templars is the actual publisher.
Will that affect the release of the hardcover special edition with pull-out tinfoil hat?
I'll add the Jade Oath stuff to my reading list. liek most Gaijin I'm a sucker for things Asian*.
Is it just Japan-centric or China/India/Korea, etc.
I do like the races, I'm itching to play a Dracha fighter type. Big noble dragon warrior.
** spoiler omitted **
It focuses primarily on Chinese fantasy, but also takes a broader look at most of the Asian cultures including Korea, India, Mongolia, Tibet, Thai, Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, Nepal, Burma, Japan, and others. In scope and focus, I have tried to keep the project headed in the same general direction that Kara-Tur went. Though, the first PDF really focuses on character creation and options, including information for adapting the classes and races of AE and the core rules to the setting and the orient in general. So, even though there is a lot of focus in that first PDF on character creation and options, there is still a lot of story, theme, genre flavor and elements in it. For example, I spent 2,560 words (2 pages at size 9 times new roman font) to explain how giants from AE and their culture fit into the setting without writing a single thing concerning rules mechanics for them. So, while there is a lot of "crunch to be had in this first PDF, it is also full of fantasy, Asian setting "flavor".
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We loved AUand then AE when it hit the shelves
we liked both the classes and the races... and I DID force my players to play... but using humans, they liked the classes so far, then the party ended for different reasons...
i liked the setting, but i was very agresive against giagiant rule :P
and most importantly... after seeing 3.5 magic and having played 3.0 magic... i saw how AE magic got its soul back...
magic its both powerful, flexible and arcane... a spellcaster can modify his spells in alot of ways, make them more or elss pwoerful, True Names affect the game
i feel so MUCH in love with that magic system taht i converted enteriely.... from AE i jumped to PF because it was a retake in the classic races and clases
but i would want tohave AE style of magic implemented in PF
i know this is not going to happen ebcause of backward compatibility (and not all people like the "complicated" rules of magic...)
but... for my own game, given the time i will translate the AE Magic System to PF, linking the ebst of the 2 and sending to hell what doesn't works...
now... if i just could sit down and do it :P
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We loved AUand then AE when it hit the shelves
we liked both the classes and the races... and I DID force my players to play... but using humans, they liked the classes so far, then the party ended for different reasons...i liked the setting, but i was very agresive against giagiant rule :P
and most importantly... after seeing 3.5 magic and having played 3.0 magic... i saw how AE magic got its soul back...
magic its both powerful, flexible and arcane... a spellcaster can modify his spells in alot of ways, make them more or elss pwoerful, True Names affect the game
i feel so MUCH in love with that magic system taht i converted enteriely.... from AE i jumped to PF because it was a retake in the classic races and clases
but i would want tohave AE style of magic implemented in PF
i know this is not going to happen ebcause of backward compatibility (and not all people like the "complicated" rules of magic...)
but... for my own game, given the time i will translate the AE Magic System to PF, linking the ebst of the 2 and sending to hell what doesn't works...
now... if i just could sit down and do it :P
mate if you get the time then please share :) my problem is finding people that will use best of both PF and AE, i am finding it hard to get players that want to use 2 3rd party books, PF has done alot of good with skills and feats and rules but i love the magic system and classes in AE(not so much the races or setting) i just need to find a few players willing to bear with me and combine both systems to make a truely interesting game(any takers heh)
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I like to use Arcana Evolved to make points about D&D balance, because I hear people say, for example, "it's impossible to make spellcasters balanced, they use MAGIC, magic can do anything!"
I played AE for a year and a half. Its a great system, and I liked it alot.
But its still not balanced at high levels. Mages still get to do everything, and they are even more flexible than in the core book. I think the gap is narrowed in AE, but its still pretty wide.
well i believe that if they DM does his job well then he can still keep the mages in check at high lvls, but it take a dm that is willing to punch out the rules lawyers in his group when they do dumb ass things with their 18th lvl mages :) i already had to kick out 2 players that just couldnt understand that i was the DM not them.
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I approve of this message.
No, seriously. As far as system balance goes Arcana Evolved is as far as it gets under 3e rules. The spellcasters aren't quite as overt as in D&D 3e and the martial classes actually seem interesting to play.
I could actually imagine PF being fully balanced if they ditched Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger and Monk and replaced them with the Warmain, Unfettered, Totem Warrior and the Monky-thingy-guy. It would be a bit too much of a stretch, though, as Pathfinder RPG still needs to keep a semblance of backwards compatibility.
'Tis a dilemma.