Hey Folks,
I've been wonder what most people do to generate their abilities scores. Do you keep the same method, or do you change it up depending on the situation?
One of my favorite is,
Roll 21d6, remove three dice. With the 18d6 arrange them into groups of three. Add up the groups of three and these are your scores. If all of your abilities added together are below a sum of 60, start over.
It's a fun method and seems to give you a lot of power, but in reality you are still going to mostly get average/above average stats. It's a mix of rolling and point buy.
How about you?
Roll 3d6 36 times, note the numbers in a 6x6 grid. Select any one row or column.
(I love love love rolling dice, so this method pleased me greatly. I would guess it's designed mostly for high-powered games.)
One of my favorite is,
Roll 21d6, remove three dice. With the 18d6 arrange them into groups of three. Add up the groups of three and these are your scores. If all of your abilities added together are below a sum of 60, start over.
How about you?
One of my favorites (though I typically offer several options):
Dice Buy: Take 28d6 and assign them to each ability score, then roll and record the sum of the top three. Typically minimum 3 dice, maximum 6, but it's not required.
For instance, you could assign 6 dice to Str, Dex, & Con, 3 to Int and Cha, 4 to Wisdom.
It can push a character towards one class, while still leaving it very much up to chance (and Charisma is less often a total dump stat).
Hey Folks,
I've been wonder what most people do to generate their abilities scores. Do you keep the same method, or do you change it up depending on the situation?
One of my favorite is,
Roll 21d6, remove three dice. With the 18d6 arrange them into groups of three. Add up the groups of three and these are your scores. If all of your abilities added together are below a sum of 60, start over.
It's a fun method and seems to give you a lot of power, but in reality you are still going to mostly get average/above average stats. It's a mix of rolling and point buy.
How about you?
WOW Neceros, I guess GMTA. I have the same system except it's 24d6, drop 6 lowest, arrange 3 dice for each ability score. Totals less than 75 are rerolled. Works EXTREMELY WELL!
Granted, I like players to feel like they have more powerful characters to start out with.
Roll 3d6 36 times, note the numbers in a 6x6 grid. Select any one row or column.
(I love love love rolling dice, so this method pleased me greatly. I would guess it's designed mostly for high-powered games.)
That, my good woman, is a very cool system.
My group uses a system we call "3 chances".
- Reroll all 1's
- Roll 4d6, drop the lowest roll
- Roll seven times, dropping the lowest overall score.
So, roll 4d6 seven times, each time dropping the lowest and rerolling all 1's. The lowest score of the seven is also dropped.
This tends to generate characters that are more powerful than average, although luck is still a factor.
My friends and I quite enjoy the "ability score" draft. It is much more involved than most systems, but I post it below for anyone interested. I posted it first for DM Jeff in another thread.
Marnak
First, every player (lets say there are four) plus the DM rolls 4d6 (drop lowest) six times.
Second, all players announce their results and total up the ability score modifiers. I will roll up some scores as examples.
Player One: 16 (+3), 15 (+2), 14 (+2), 14 (+2), 9 (-1), 14 (+2). Wow, really high rolls! Total bonus is: +10.
Player Two: 11 (+0), 11 (+0), 12 (+1), 7 (-2), 7 (-2), 14 (+2). Wow, really low rolls! Roll again because bonus is -1 in total.
Player Two Re-roll: 16 (+3), 15 (+2), 11 (+0), 8 (-1), 16 (+3), 12 (+1). Total modifiers: +8
Player Three: 4 (-3), 14 (+2), 16 (+3), 16 (+3), 17 (+3), 14 (+2). Total: +10
Player Four: 14 (+2), 12 (+1), 16 (+3), 11 (+0), 13 (+1), 13 (+1). Total: +8
DM: 10 (+0), 10 (+0), 7 (-2), 14 (+2), 6 (-2), 13 (+1). Another negative character. Crazy. Roll again.
DM Roll #2: 7 (-2), 13 (+1), 17 (+3), 11 (+0), 13 (+1), 12 (+1). Total: +4
Third, DM divides all the total bonus numbers by the number of rollers and comes up with an average total bonus (rounding to nearest whole number). In the above example, the average is: +8 (+40 divided by 5). The "cap" for all four characters becomes +8. A character cannot exceed +8 when drafting their ability scores. (As soon as they reach the cap, all remaining scores yet to be filled become 10s.)
Fourth, all rolls are collected together, separated from the player who rolled them and placed on a central board like this (added things up quickly so forgive any errors):
17 x 2
16 x 6
15 x 2
14 x 6
13 x 4
12 x 2
11 x 3
10 x 1
9 x 1
8 x 1
7 x 1
4 x 1
Fifth, the players roll a d20 and highest gets to draft first, second goes next, etc. However, it is a "snake draft" so person to go last in the "first round" goes first in the "second round" and so on. Players continue drafting until they have six scores. They then distribute them as they see fit and create their characters! Note that the DM rolls in order to insure that at least six scores will be left over at the end.
Reasons I love this system:
1. It involves rolling dice!
2. It creates balanced characters!
3. It lets other players fully cheer for their fellow players during character creation. Everyone wants a higher "average" so everyone benefits from the good rolls, not just the player getting lucky.
4. It creates unique ability score spreads instead of the cookie cutterish ones that you get with the array system and even the point buy system.
5. It encourages people to take negative stats because this helps with your "cap." Thus, lots of characters have a weak spot, and it has been chosen with love by the player. I must give up this in order to be stronger in this....
6. It allows me to reward certain builds during character creation without unbalancing the characters. For example, my coming campaign has a no evil characters rule, but I would also like to have good characters. Any player declaring that their character will be good gets an extra d6 to roll replacing a low die roll at any time during the rolling up process. This boost helps the entire group by bumping up the average while still encouraging particular players to go in directions I would like them to. No penalty, however, for those who don't do this (well other than party member bitterness "why didn't you become good? you could have re-rolled and impoved that 6,6,1,1!!!"
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Dice Buy: Take 28d6 and assign them to each ability score, then roll and record the sum of the top three. Typically minimum 3 dice, maximum 6, but it's not required.
that's pretty much my method, too, with some wonkiness.
- I offer 27 dice rather than 28
- I allow up to 8d6 for a stat, because the typical roll for 6d6 is still 'only' a result of 15.
- Players may assign "2d6" to a stat, which is "roll 4d6 and drop the highest" (so far, nobody's taken me up on that.)
- When a roll includes more than three '6's, those additional '6's add 1 to the result. So a 6d6 roll of " 2,3,6,6,6,6" becomes a "19".
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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My friends and I quite enjoy the "ability score" draft. It is much more involved than most systems, but I post it below for anyone interested. I posted it first for DM Jeff in another thread.
Marnak
That sounds like a lot of fun, Marnak. Do you find that players try to negotiate with one another for particular draft picks?
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My first eaten post. :( Preview, you are a fickle mistress.
Anyway, we don't use any dice. Instead, I let them assign whatever scores they want, where they want them, up to a max total bonus of +10.
This probably wouldn't work for players who would find five ways from Sunday to abuse it, but it's been great for us. They get to create the character concepts they have in their heads, without random luck affecting it, and the max bonus keeps everything to a pretty level playing field.
They can dip into the negatives still, if they want a high score somewhere else, but there haven't been any obvious dump stats like 6 Charisma, yet. If there was, I'd take a second look at the character concept, because how do you even roleplay that? :)
Most of the time, like for a recent baby rogue, it's more like "Str 13 (+1), Dex 16 (+3), Con 14 (+2), Int 15 (+2), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 13 (+1)". He was small but quick, very bright and fast-talking, and while perhaps a bit more powerful then a standard point buy, totally reasonable to me.
Chris,
Players haven't negotiated too much so far because there have usually been multiples of most scores. I am waiting still for our first 18, which could lead to some serious negotiating and trading!
Marnak
OK, our method. I think I posted this once before...
3d6 + 1d8; roll 6x; reroll lowest; assign as needed.
Yes, I've had 3's with this option...and 20's.
It is slightly skewed to higher scores, but still tends to produce average/heroic level stats.
We just get 72 ability points, assign them how you wish. It was tough for my husband to give up the random coolness of dice rolling for ability scores, but since I defy the laws of probability, it was totally necessary if I was ever going to have a playable character:)
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I usually use a point buy system. Players can create their PCs at home before a game session without any trust issues, and and I can be sure that all characters are balanced. If my group really wants to try a game where we roll, I'll allow it. Rolling dice is a lot of fun. However, I don't think there should be too many second chances when we do. Rolling is a gamble, and sometimes it doesn't go your way. When that happens, you have to accept those consequences.
OK, our method. I think I posted this once before...
3d6 + 1d8; roll 6x; reroll lowest; assign as needed.
Yes, I've had 3's with this option...and 20's.
It is slightly skewed to higher scores, but still tends to produce average/heroic level stats.
Ooops.
That's 3d6 +1d8; *drop lowest die*; roll 6x; reroll lowest; assign as needed.
I think for my next game I will not roll any dice, but will instead just assign a +modifier that everyone can build with.
Even characters, creative people will get what they want and it's not too powerful.
Probably +10 total bonus.
I've always stuck with the 'six rolls of 4d6 (drop lowest, arrange to taste' method although for my upcoming campaign I might experiment with point buy system.
Cheers
Mark
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My group uses 3 methods;
1) Each stat starts off at 6 and then you roll 2d6, re-rolling Snake Eyes. makes for a pretty "average" spread and guarantee's you get no neg stats, racial's take place after, so if you play a goblin you aren't too borked.
2) Roll 1d10 add 9 - only used when a char is offed or the campaign is starting above 4th level
3) 78 point buy - this is often the most used in our group, allows the most customization, although 1 guy did put 13's across the board (me, hehe)
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Roll 3d6 36 times, note the numbers in a 6x6 grid. Select any one row or column.
(I love love love rolling dice, so this method pleased me greatly. I would guess it's designed mostly for high-powered games.)
Nice, I like this, but I don't think my players would want to take the time to do this.
My friends and I quite enjoy the "ability score" draft. It is much more involved than most systems, but I post it below for anyone interested. I posted it first for DM Jeff in another thread.
Marnak
[spoiler]
Oww.... that makes my brain hurt, but neat idea if it works for you guys.
Dice Buy: Take 28d6 and assign them to each ability score, then roll and record the sum of the top three. Typically minimum 3 dice, maximum 6, but it's not required.
that's pretty much my method, too, with some wonkiness.
- I offer 27 dice rather than 28
- I allow up to 8d6 for a stat, because the typical roll for 6d6 is still 'only' a result of 15.
- Players may assign "2d6" to a stat, which is "roll 4d6 and drop the highest" (so far, nobody's taken me up on that.)
- When a roll includes more than three '6's, those additional '6's add 1 to the result. So a 6d6 roll of " 2,3,6,6,6,6" becomes a "19".
I initially offered 26d6, but it seemed too low - and 28d6 matched the 28 point-buy too well not to do it :). Of course the person who used it ended up with horrible stats (an 8 where he used 6d6).
I like your "2d6", that's pretty good. Could do that or 3d6, drop the lowest. I'll have to check which is better/worse.
On the "how many dice to "ensure" an 18 front, here's the average result, and % reaching at least 18, 16, and 14:
4d6 average: 12.2, 18: 1.7% 16+: 13.2% 14+: 35.8%
4d6 w/rerolls*: 12.5, 18: 1.9% 16+: 14.6% 14+: 38.9%
5d6 average: 13.4, 18: 3.5% 16+: 23.7% 14+: 52.9%
6d6 average: 14.3, 18: 6.2% 16+: 34.5% 14+: 66.2%
7d6 average: 14.9
8d6 average: 15.4
9d6 average: 15.8
I didn't do the calculation over 6d6, but it goes up fairly fast. But there are very heavily diminishing returns on the *average* roll.
* With rerolls means accounting for if the total of the stats is under <+2 mods (DMG reroll rule), and ignoring the result.
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Roll 3d6 36 times, note the numbers in a 6x6 grid. Select any one row or column.
(I love love love rolling dice, so this method pleased me greatly. I would guess it's designed mostly for high-powered games.)
I've done this. It is probably the most time consuming but ultimately the most fair method for low-power campaigns. Plus, rolling is fun!
I've also planned a dice-buy method, rolling is done after all dice are assigned:
- good Base Attack: +1d6 Str
- good Reflex save: +1d6 Dex
- good Fort save: +1d6 Con
- any Knowledge skill: +1d6 Int
- good Will save: +1d6 Wis
- any character: +1d6 Cha
Oh, how much I love point buy 25. ^^
I really like some of these methods. The one my DM used before he shipped off with the peace corps was:
(4d6, reroll all 1s once, drop lowest) x7, drop lowest, highest goes to 18 if it isn't already.
It can result in some pretty high, scores but he abused us pretty good so it balanced out. One character I had (a warlock who got eaten by a balor at level 8 when he should have ran with everyone else (failed a knowledge planes and wasn't that intimidated until it was too late)) had 18, 18, 16, 15, 14, 14.
Normally I my players roll 4d6, dropping one lowest dice.
My next game I am having the players use start at elite, plus 1d6 to be divided in any stat.
We just get 72 ability points, assign them how you wish. It was tough for my husband to give up the random coolness of dice rolling for ability scores, but since I defy the laws of probability, it was totally necessary if I was ever going to have a playable character:)
Lol.. Yeah my group has stopped rolling dice because even if I rolled in front of the guys they still thought I was cheating :) (though the other players were quick to borrow my dice when rolling up their own stats, and usualy rolled even higher) So now we do the typical point buy systems, 32 or 28, though with the new rules it's 25. Don't mind it since we have a nice sized group and usually we balance each other out where needed.
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I'm writing an Excel script to do this, and I'm not sure how your players "group [their dice] into 6 groups of 48". Do they choose, or is it random?group them into 6 groups of 48 each,
I let them choose, but only after they hang, bat-like, from a basement rafter for 8 minutes and 14 seconds of course.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I let them choose, but only after they hang, bat-like, from a basement rafter for 8 minutes and 14 seconds of course.
So I'll let the program try to maximize the scores, with a built-in 11% randomization to model the vision impairment from the blood-rush. Does that sound about right?
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I make all of my players have a 8 in every stat and then they get to pick one stat to have a 10 in (but only if they take a 3 in another stat), just to be fair, and my group likes an ultra-gritty hyper-realistic campaign, plus it gives us a way to tie ability scores to roleplaying.
;)
I still get players who min/max by doing Str 10, Cha 3.
1) The "Roll all you want" system
One GM lets us roll 4d6 and drop the lowest and do this 6 times to get your result of 6 stats. THEN, if you dont like them, re-roll. Do this as MANY times as you want. Yes, that means you can just keep rolling sets of stats until you are satisfied, even if that means you roll for 7 hours. We find that 99% of the time, people take one of their first 3 or 4 columns. About the only exception was when someone wanted to play a half-orc warmage. The -2 int and -2 cha hammer half-orcs, so some extensive re-rolling was done.
2) The "3 columns, d4 point shuffle" system
You basically do 3 columns of "4d6 drop lowest" arrange to taste. Take the best of the 3 columns. Adjust for race. Roll a d4 and you can move that many individual points between stats (rolling a 3 could let you move 2 from str to int, and then 1 from wis to int).
Lewis
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Currently we're in a game that we had to roll 6d4 for each score, reroll 1s, and keep any 'yahtzee'.. which makes a minimum of 10 and a potential maximum of 24..
a bit more powerful, yes, then again, in this campaign it's assumed that the Devils won the blood war, took over the material plane, you know.. that whole thing..
Normally, we do it thus:
Roll 4d6 drop lowest six times. Repeat three times. Pick the stat group you like the most, and haggle with the DM for gaining a little higher stats if still unsatisfactorily. And if you roll four "1"s, you have a stat of 19.
Stefan
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So I'll let the program try to maximize the scores, with a built-in 11% randomization to model the vision impairment from the blood-rush. Does that sound about right?I let them choose, but only after they hang, bat-like, from a basement rafter for 8 minutes and 14 seconds of course.
Dude, I was pulling your leg. My group doesn't own close to 500 d6's each. We usually do the traditional methods of 4d6 drop lowest, although I have used 2d6+6, 5d4, 2d8+2, 1d10+8 and a slew of others. I also like this method, culled from these boards way back when.....
Assign each ability score a number from 1 to 6, each one starts with 6 points in it. Roll 40d6 and for every one you roll add a point the corresponding ability score(usually strength if numbered in order), for every 2 you roll add a point to that ability (usually dex, to follow strength), etc.That method has some room also, you can reduce the number of d6's rolled and give a few extra points for the players to add as they see fit or whatever.
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I'm writing an Excel script to do this, and I'm not sure how your players "group [their dice] into 6 groups of 48". Do they choose, or is it random?group them into 6 groups of 48 each,
I let them choose, but only after they hang, bat-like, from a basement rafter for 8 minutes and 14 seconds of course.
Our group has found comfort in the 2d6+6 method, only after each dice roll, you have to take a shot of Jack (or the equivelent. one night it was straight Absolut). by the time they have to assign their scores, it sounds awesome to put that 18 into wisdom for the wizard because then he'll be playing the "wisest old douce ever (insert giggle friom a dude). I'm gonna get him a giant turtle and he'll walk around and make with the fancy talk and the stuff." that was a direct quote from the last character making session. we may have to reconsider our rolling method.
I use the method "32 (or 28) point buy, or I roll 4d6 (drop lowest) for you". I've never had anyone take me up on the rolling. :)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Dude, I was pulling your leg. My group doesn't own close to 500 d6's each.
Yep. And I don't know how to write Excel scripts. Although your method as described does actually give a stat block with a lot of 13's, so it gives reasonable results.
But man, the rush of five people each rolling 416 d6's, all at once. And it must suck when people get their piles of dice confused.
Assign each ability score a number from 1 to 6, each one starts with 6 points in it. Roll 40d6 and for every one you roll add a point the corresponding ability score(usually strength if numbered in order), for every 2 you roll add a point to that ability (usually dex, to follow strength), etc.
Hmm. Tried that. Got:
Character 1, perhaps a SorcererStrength......10
Dexterity.....13
Constitution..12
Intelligence..13
Wisdom........12
Charisma......16
Character 2, perhaps a Rogue
Strength......12
Dexterity.....14
Constitution..16
Intelligence..14
Wisdom.........9
Charisma......11
It seems to give reasonable characters, with stats averaging 12.67, and with stats of '18'+ (rolling the same result on at least 12 out of 40 dice) being very rare. (I rolled up 28 more characters, in the midst of whom there were two rolls of '18' (an Intelligence and a Dexterity) and single character with a Constitution of '19'.) A score of '12' is *very* common, coming up 50 out of those 168 rolls (about 30% of the time).
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stuff
Interesting. Now I want to try it for myself.
Also, as a general question, am I the only DM who's group experimented with the 3-dragon ante method that came out in dragon a while ago? that also seemed to give some decent scores, maybe a little high, and my players were able to read all kinds of fluff into the readings. we may end up going back to that.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Also, as a general question, am I the only DM who's group experimented with the 3-dragon ante method that came out in dragon a while ago? that also seemed to give some decent scores, maybe a little high, and my players were able to read all kinds of fluff into the readings. we may end up going back to that.
The 3-Dragon-Ante reading shuffles the scores around, but doesn't actually make them any higher or lower than whatever point-buy method you'd choose to start with. It gives a character's pre-adventuring history, though, and a lot of players like that.
We have been using the point buy system for ages now, but this leads to very average characters. We used to use the classic 4d6 6 times, drop the lowest dice and assign where you want. But that gave issues with someone rolling up a super character and someone else rolling an average one.
I must say i am very intrigued by the draft system, I like that a lot.
We will be ages away from our next campaign, so I need to save that somewhere to remind me.
Another generation method I was considering is thus:
For every dollar you give the GM he or she allows you a +1 to an ability score. This transaction may occur so long as dollars are continued to be offered, or until the other players pummel you for giving the GM too much money.
I'm old school. In my homebrew we use the classic, organic 3d6 six times, in order. Players may reject the character and reroll as often as they would like, within reason, but generally three or four times is sufficient. This system serves the theme and style of our homebrew, and it makes the racial modifiers far more significant, which I like.
In our Pathfinder campaign we use the standard point buy, however.
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Option for mature players: Just pick your scores based on your character concept. This option should be reserved for groups that would never abuse this trust.
Standard Option (what I use regularly): 4d6, drop the lowest die, re-roll any "1"s
Hero Array: (used to give munchkins what they want, and give role-players some teeth behind their choices) 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13 (move two points (+/- 2) once))