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I just want to thank James for all his posts this morning and in general throughout this thread. I am not a fan of high level play myself (well at least not of play above say 14th level or so), but I am intrigued by the "Kingmaker" ideas floated by James and look forward to reading and seeing more of them.
Session 3 Legan, Callic, and O'Erik head to Zellara's after trying to contact Tia the Cleric and Mathis the Bard. They leave messages at appropriate places, e.g., the cleric's temple, where the bard performs, the Bailer's Retreat if we think they would come by: "Mission accomplished. Much to tell and discuss. Meet us back where we all found out the location of our objective." Legan, Callic, and Oerik make it all back to Zellara's and begin dividing up the treasure. They decide to hold on to most of it for the time being but venture down to Eodred's Walk and successully sell the ring and the cigar box at Gemshare. They pass on the figurine. Oerik wants to wait to see if the others show up before selling more or investigating the brooch. Despite being occupied most of the day with clerical duties and some sick children, Tia did indeed receive the message and headed to Zellara's place as well. Standing outside the building she raps on the door and waits for an answer. Oerik opens the door and welcomes Tia inside. With great excitement, he tells her about the showdown with Gaedren and is sorry that Tia couldn't be there to see his end. He is worried about the orphans and hopes that they will go to one of the orphanages. Oerik plans to donate some of his portion of the treasure to the city's orphanages. Oerik asks Tia to look at the items they recovered from Gaedren, especially the brooch to see if she knows anything about. The moment Tia sees the brooch she recognizes it as a possession of Queen Ileosa herself, stolen weeks ago from a jeweler who had been contracted to repair a broken clasp on it! She has heard that the brooch was easily worth 1000 gp, but it would be instantly recognized as the Queen's property by any jeweler able to pay such a sum in the city. Callic changes the subject and expresses some concerns about staying at Zellara's and wonders what they will be telling the neighbors. Do they even know Zellara is dead? He finds staying at Zellara's uncomfortable and wonders if another location can be found. It is clear Callic prefers a low profile and he is not sure staying in the house of a dead fortune teller qualifies. Tia agrees with Callic's concerns and seems to ponder over the situation a bit before offering a suggestion. "It seems that from the items you relieved Gaedren of, we have a rather large sum of money on hand. If we have intentions to continue meeting like this and there is no current favorable location, one option may be to pool what money can be made from Gaedren's belongings to purchase or rent something low profile yet convenient for everyone to access." she says. Tia also insists that the holy symbol of Shelyn be returned to the sanctuary instead of sold like most other items found at Gaedren's. Following Tia's advice, the new friends travel to the Sanctuary of Shelyn to return the holy symbol discovered in the lair of Gaedren Lamm. They are surprised by how small the sanctuary is, the smallest of the temples in the city. However, the building is nevertheless one of Korvosa's most beautiful, and they are all glad they came. The square building is located in North Point and engulfs a small courtyard that is decorated with statuary, murals, and beautiful flowering plants. It doesn't feel cluttered even though it is full of artwork and plants. Melvin Reina is the high priest of the sanctuary, and he greets his visitors with warmth. He might even be too friendly for Oerik's tastes. He is very pleased that the party chose to return the holy symbol to him. They clearly belonged to one of his wealthy patrons, and he brings out the following items as a reward: Elixir of love
Melvin also gives each of the members of the party a rose from the sanctuary as a token of thanks and asks them to come again. With the return of the Holy Symbol, Oerik suggests it is time to move out of Zellara's and into the rental house. He suggests doing so this coming weekend at the latest. He asks Legan to try to ask Zellara to manifest herself one more time, so she can wave goodbye to them with neighbors watching so that her subsequent disappearance won't be blamed on the party. In fact, Oerik suggests Callic leave a note from Zellara indicating her desire to leave Korvosa for a less "material life" so that investigators will conclude she has simply abandoned her house. Oerik, Tia, Callic, and Legan begin the process of looking for a house in the city. They have decided to spend the weekend exploring the various options, getting an up close look at several of the possible houses available to rent. Zellara does, indeed, wish them well, giving them as clean a break as possible from their initial base of operations. After looking at their first house, near the University, they begin to notice increased activity in the streets with some of folks in the distance looking clearly anxious and worried. They press on and meet the landlord at another house in the Midlands area. After an extensive tour, they emerge to find that things have gotten much worse in the city. Smoke now arises on the horizon and alarm bells can be heard. Shouting, even screaming, can be heard. As the party tries to wind its way toward the smoke and shouting, things get noticeably and quickly worse. The party now hears the clash of steel on steel along with even a periodic detonation of arcane power mixed with the shouting and screaming. In the air above, griffon-riding Sable Company Marines can be seen. Eventually, they see a Korvosan herald shouting from a scroll, "The king is dead. Long live the Queen." Around the herald are hecklers and a motley crowd. Someone shouts at the herald "Hang the queen!" Another mob member spits "The usurper whore must die!" Shortly thereafter, a contingent of men clad in dark iron armor and wearing horned helms smashes into the mob. Someone in the mob shouts "Hell Knights!" and the angry citizens disperse. Before the party can even process this, a terrible cry is heard overhead and blood lands like rain around the party. A Sable Company Marine's mount has been terribly wounded by something and the rider and griffon are spinning in the sky. In great pain, the griffon totally succumbs and plunges with its rider into a neaby statue. The crunch of bone on stone can be visibly heard from some distance away. The party realizes that their fears have come to pass. The beloved King has died, and the city is divided over the new monarch, his Queen. "So passes Eodred II, second of his honorable name, another victim of the Curse of the Crimson Throne. Korvosans, from poor to rich, from Varisian to Chelaxian, were taken by surprise by Eodred's death. Although his health had been in decline, it was well known that he was receiving care from the priests of Sarenrae and Abadar. Callic uncovers that even priests of Asmodeus had been summoned at the last minute to stave off Eodred's death! So, with some surprise, the monarchy passes to Eodred's lady wife, Queen Ileosa. Many in the city would deny the Queen her seat of power. With his passing, many citizens forget that Eodred had become a spendthrift and had not been able to rejuvenate the city's economy. Nostalgia for Eodred's rule has set in so quickly because of the seething anger that many feel for the Queen. Even the charitable on Korvosa's streets see her as a petulant gold digger. The anger at the King's sudden death and the frustration that the throne passes to the Queen has been stoked by the disappearance of the castle seneschal, allegedly slain in the rioting that broke out near the Castle when word of the King's death was first proclaimed. The rioting that broke out initially has subsided but small gangs and mobs of outlaws still spring up in the streets days after the King's death. Worse, dock workers have abandoned the seafront wards and caravan men refuse to unload wagons arriving at Northgate. Merchant ships and wagon convoys have turned around when they are blocked from unloading their goods. These Korvosan citizens are not helping the city, but they are protesting in the only way they can it appears. Food and staples are being hoarded and already prices have skyrocketed. In a sign of how desperate the times are, the Bank of Abadar has closed its doors and posted armed guards to protect its deposits. The Acadamae has shut its doors and will not allow its students out or visitors in. The Hell Knights have brutally restored order in some parts of the city, but their actions have further alienated some citizens, and many refuse to believe that the Queen actually knows how they are interpreting her orders to restore order. There are even rumors that junior members of the Korvosan Guard have broken under the pressure, abandoning their posts or even becoming part of the problem, aiding in the city's slide into anarchy. Amidst all of this bad news, the party does learn one bit of good news. When they approach some harried members of the Korvosan Guard to inquire about returning the Queen's brooch, they learn that the brooch has been officially registered with the Guard as stolen property and a reward of 1200 gp has been offered for its return. The Guard are happy for this good news and arrange a visit for you with the Queen. However, due to the death of the King, the audience will not take place for one week. The Guard believes that order will be restored by that date and the Queen will have time to meet and thank you properly. During the week that the party waits to meet with the Queen, they move in to their new rental house near the University, check on their family members, and nervously ponder the future of the city. Thankfully, the civil unrest continues to die down, and the streets are relatively safe by the time they set out to meet the Queen. Still, riots, fires, lootings, and similar events are reported in some distant parts of the city. And, even the safe streets are often filled with doomsayers and end-of-the-world lunatics. Most seem harmless but some are causing real mischief in their preaching. On the way to the Queen, a wild haired and sick looking old man fixates on Tia and tells her that she appeared to him in a dream and that she will die during a time of great sickness that is coming and that her death will usher in Korovosa's "darkest hour". Suddenly, the old man rushes at Tia and attempts to grapple her. Tia was unable to throw off the madman, and he spit all over her face. Days later, Tia's fears were confirmed. She had contracted filth fever. Of course, the mad old man was not the only bearer of disease the group encountered on the way to the queen. After meeting up with the bard Mathis, who had been taking care of a sick family member, the party decided on Oerik's suggestion to take a short cut to Castle Korvosa. During this part of the journey, the group was travelling near the underground sewere system when an otyugh burst up from the sewers and attacked, grappling and infecting party members with its own diseases! Callic later noted that he had seen such a creature being corralled into the sewer system. He speculated tha they were actually used by the city to get rid of sewage and garbage. The creature was knocked unconscious and, based on Callic's information, stabilized before it died. The Korvosan Guard was called in and told of the breakout by the creature, and they promised to take care of it, thanking the party for their help. The party pushed on and entered the Castle after leaving their weapons at the entrance. They were met by Sabina Merrin, the Queen's bodyguard, who ushered them in to the throne room. There, the Queen still in mourning thanked them for returning the brooch, paid them 1200 gp, and offered them a position in the Korvosan Guard. The party accepted and were told to report to Field Marshal Cressida Kroft at Citadel Volshyenek. After depositing the party's treasure at the Bank of Abadar, they set out to meet with the Field Marshal. Realizing they were going to be a bit late, they sent Mathis on ahead. On the way to the Citadel, the party came across a band of toughs attacking a young aristocrat. They intervened with force, eventually knocking unconscious all of the toughs. They did not kill any of them thanks to Tia's healing. The Guard was summoned again and thanked the party for their help and for not killing any of the mob. They make it clear that they would have had to prosecute the party if one of them had died. The Guard and the party proceeded to the Citadel where Kroft met with them and offered them official status in the Guard and asked them to take on a special mission, capturing a renegade Guardsman named Verik Vancaskerkin who has been giving out free meat to the poor in an abandoned building in North Point. The party had begun to formulate a plan when Tia became very sick with filth fever. It took the party several days to get her well, even with the purchase of magical healing. Now fully recovered, the party turns again to Mr. Vancaskerkin....
It has been a long time, but I finally found time to post this narrative summary of our campaign so far (for those of you who are interested). We have now had three sessions (character generation/meeting Zellara; against Gaedren Lamm; and Death of the King/Meeting the Queen/City Gone Mad/Casing All the World's Meat). Also, one of the human fighters had to drop out (the one with longsword and Klar). Sesion 2
The great showdown began auspiciously with Legan casting his spell "Color Spray," which knocked out several of the dozen orphans in the loading dock area. The gnome called out the alarm and intimidated the other orphans to attack with their pitchforks. However, Oerik pushed through to the inner hallway and met Yargin and his dog before they could join the main fray. After several rounds of fighting, additional uses of "Color Spray," and the fall of the gnome, the remaining orphans fled. Yargin and the dog were soon dispatched. Callic, who was careful to use his sap so as to make sure none of the orphans were killed, now sprinted forward trying to find Gaedren before he could escape. A quick search turned up another room with orphans being put to work by the half-orc Giggles. Giggles was hit by a constant stream of "Daze" spells from the sorcerer and was killed by Oerik and Callic. The group was momentarily puzzled, still not finding Gaedren but eventually realized that he was probably held up in a semi-secret room below the main floors and accessible only from a pier beneath the back room. They burst into the room to find Gaedren calmly waiting for them, possibly overconfident because of his pet Crocodile, Gobblegut. Oerik engaged the croc and allowed Callic and Legan to advance on Gaedren. The gangster calmy shot Callic as he came on with his hand crossbow, hitting almost every time. Gaedren yelled out that he remembered his attackers and taunted them with stories of how he had murdered Oerik's cousin, killed Callic's parents, and sabotaged the "bastard" Legan's chances of entering the Acadamae. Callic came on in rage, despite being near death after being hit so many times. Legan, casting spells and slahsing with his fingernails, and Callic, using a weapon in each hand, cornered Gaedren and finished him off. Searching Gaedren's chest, numerous treasures were found, including a mysterious but clearly valuable brooch. The group retreated back to the abandoned wharehouse temporarily but needs a better base of operations it is clear.
I like it as well and urge Jason to give this consideration.
I think that taking away the Martial Weapon Proficiency for humans is probably a good thing, and this comes from someone who wants the rules to favor humans over other races! In a number of the Beta Playtest campaigns I have seen posted recently, there seems to be a large number of humans, which I consider a good thing, but I am starting to worry that Beta PfRPG humans might be a tad too good. I also think that the +2 to any ability score might be too tempting for many players. I wonder if +2 to any one ability, +1 to one other ability, and -2 to any one ability would actually be better balanced. Humans would be net +1 instead of net +2 like other races but they would make up for that with their greater flexibility. Not sure about this change as I really do like the way the rules have improved humans.... Marnak
I agree with DM Jeff and his wife that the human cultures in Golorian are very cool, and are a great incentive for players to choose the not-as-boring-as-you-thought human race! Interestingly, the two half-elves in the group were both raised by humans, one Varisian and one Chelaxian, suggesting that they too were attracted by the coolness of Korvosan humans.
Well, today was our first session. I am running Curse of the Crimson Throne as a Pathfinder RPG Beta playtest at our FLGS, and we met today to create characters and get started. There are six characters in the party: Half-Elf Sorcerer (Dragon Bloodline, Harrowed Feat) Half-Elf Bard specializing in enchantments Human Fighter wielding a longsword and Klar and with Endurance, Toughness, and Defensive Combat Training as feats. Human Cleric of Sarenrae Human Rogue Human Fighter specializing in Combat Maneuvers (Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, and Trip) Humans were very popular because they are improved in Pathfinder (favored class is better, martial weapon choice, +2 any Stat, no penalties), and I gave the players a small bonus for choosing human since I wanted to playtest the race a bit. Half-elves were chosen because folks liked the way Pathfinder improved that race's abilities as well. One player had never played a half-elf in 3e before. The other had often played elves but not half-elves.
Adam, First, welcome to the area! Second, you might check out some of the groups on meetup.com. One that might be of interest is: The Center City, Philadelphia Dungeons & Dragons Meetup. The other one that seems to fit is: The Philadelphia Dungeons & Dragons Meetup Group. Third, if none of these closer groups work out, I am located in south Jersey, about a twenty-five minute drive from Center City Philadelphia. I game at The Comic Book Store in Glassboro, NJ. There are currently four DND games being run weekly or biweekly there, including a Pathfinder Beta playtest run by yours truly (Curse of the Crimson Throne). If you want more info, just reply to this message or drop me an email. Spoiler:
carrigan@rowan.edu Marnak
I don't really think Hillary supporters are going to vote for Obama or McCain based on McCain's joke about Hillary and Chelsea, but I do think that the joke was in terrible taste. If I was Chelsea's dad, I would have a hard time with John McCain no matter what he said in his apology. I just find it funny that McCain is now trying to court Hillary voters and to position his campaign as the one to vote for if you want to break down the gender barrier when the "original maverick" had ridiculed the innocent daughter of the President in order to get more money out of his donors.
Wow, now that beats the heck out of my joke as potential bad news for the McCain/Palin campaign.
In 1998, John McCain told the following nasty joke at a Senate fundraiser. I can't imagine any Hillary supporters voting for McCain/Palin if they know about it. I warn you that it is so mean that most media outlets refused to print it. Spoiler:
"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno." For verification (and to read about why the joke hasn't been given more media play), see the salon.com story here: http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
Grognard Perspective I like the new favored class hit point bonus because it gives a strong reason for a race to choose their favored class while not eliminating other options. I also like the fact that it gives humans and half-elves a boost vis-a-vis 3.5 favored class. In earlier versions of DND, certain classes were just completely off limits to certain races. This was too restrictive. I like third edition's opening up of multiclassing, but there were some problems and I like Pathfinder's attempt to steer things back a bit, to reward iconic race/class combos. The problem with 3.5e was that the favored class mechanic didn't give one any incentive to be your favored class, it just gave you a class you could "cherry pick" for a level or two when multiclassing. In other words, favored class didn't really work IMHO in 3.5. I think favored class works much better in PfRPG. For folks who want to ignore multiclassing restrictions, it is one of the easiest things to houserule (and believe me this has been houseruled since 1e). All of this is not to disagree with the OP's comment which is that the "+1 hit point" feels very gamist instead of simulationist. I am open for something other than +1 hit point, something that is more simulationist, as long it is equally strong as an incentive. I also agree with another poster on this thread who mentioned that the "racial preferences" are largely cultural preferences. I don't know how easy this would be to change given the goal of backwards compatibility, but I think that it is worth exploring. Some combination of set and optional "racial characteristics" might work. Marnak
Here is my report on my FLGS in south Jersey: I believe that the store is going to be running two Pathfinder campaigns, a Curse of the Crimson Throne Beta test run by yours truly on Fridays, and a (to be converted from 3.5 campaign) run on Mondays. Despite a healthy order of Beta books, at least ten, the store did not order enough copies of the Beta. They have other Paizo material but mostly Gamemastery material like flipmats, combat pad, etc. They have been ordereing everything that I have asked them to, and I think they are going to be displaying more Paizo products in the future. I can forsee demand and interest building during the coming year as the release of the final rule nears. I am sure that the store will participate in whatever events are put together to mark the release of the final version of the rules. The store has been very supportive of Pathfinder so far, though the owner continues to think that the store will suffer if 4e falters. FYI: The folks who bring in the most money to the store are Warhammer folks. Marnak
I just wanted to add my own congratulations. I consider myself to be a Paizo evangelical, and I will continue to spread the Good News of Pathfinder in my travels and epistles! I am glad that so many other folks recognize the quality of Paizo's products. Marnak
Chris, Players haven't negotiated too much so far because there have usually been multiples of most scores. I am waiting still for our first 18, which could lead to some serious negotiating and trading! Marnak
I agree with the OP that this is a problem, and I agree with others who have said the same problem applies to other races as well. My biggest gripe is the elf who is supposedly a master swordsman but gets no boost in this regard while playing classes with martial weapon proficiency. My preferred solution to this problem is as follows: Give all the races a bonus feat, either Weapon Familiarity or Greater Weapon Familiarity (see below), related to their racial weapons(such as dwarves and axes, humans and their one martial weapon, etc). The choice must be made at first level and cannot be changed. Weapon Familiarity
Effect: Gain proficiency in weapon. Normal: Character is not proficient with weapon. Greater Weapon Familiarity
Effect: Gain +1 unnamed (or racial?) bonus to damage Normal: Character does not get the extra bonus to damage The text in the "races" section could read something along these lines: Humans recieve racial familiarity with any one martial weapon of their choice, and they recieve a bonus weapon familiarity feat (they must meet all pre-requisites). Elves receive racial familiarity with longswords, rapiers, longbows, and shortbows, and they recieve two (could give them more or less here) bonus weapon familiarity feats (they must meet all pre-requisites). Note: if you want to restrict elves to getting one sword and one bow you could do that but I would let them have the flexibility of loading up on one weapon if they were a rogue or wizard. Halflings receive racial familiarity with slings and receive one bonus weapon familiarity feat (they must meet all pre-requisites). Note: This gives all halflings (except for halfling wizards) a +1 to damage with slings! And so on... Thoughts?
My friends and I quite enjoy the "ability score" draft. It is much more involved than most systems, but I post it below for anyone interested. I posted it first for DM Jeff in another thread. Marnak Spoiler: First, every player (lets say there are four) plus the DM rolls 4d6 (drop lowest) six times. Second, all players announce their results and total up the ability score modifiers. I will roll up some scores as examples. Player One: 16 (+3), 15 (+2), 14 (+2), 14 (+2), 9 (-1), 14 (+2). Wow, really high rolls! Total bonus is: +10. Player Two: 11 (+0), 11 (+0), 12 (+1), 7 (-2), 7 (-2), 14 (+2). Wow, really low rolls! Roll again because bonus is -1 in total. Player Two Re-roll: 16 (+3), 15 (+2), 11 (+0), 8 (-1), 16 (+3), 12 (+1). Total modifiers: +8 Player Three: 4 (-3), 14 (+2), 16 (+3), 16 (+3), 17 (+3), 14 (+2). Total: +10 Player Four: 14 (+2), 12 (+1), 16 (+3), 11 (+0), 13 (+1), 13 (+1). Total: +8 DM: 10 (+0), 10 (+0), 7 (-2), 14 (+2), 6 (-2), 13 (+1). Another negative character. Crazy. Roll again. DM Roll #2: 7 (-2), 13 (+1), 17 (+3), 11 (+0), 13 (+1), 12 (+1). Total: +4 Third, DM divides all the total bonus numbers by the number of rollers and comes up with an average total bonus (rounding to nearest whole number). In the above example, the average is: +8 (+40 divided by 5). The "cap" for all four characters becomes +8. A character cannot exceed +8 when drafting their ability scores. (As soon as they reach the cap, all remaining scores yet to be filled become 10s.) Fourth, all rolls are collected together, separated from the player who rolled them and placed on a central board like this (added things up quickly so forgive any errors): 17 x 2
Fifth, the players roll a d20 and highest gets to draft first, second goes next, etc. However, it is a "snake draft" so person to go last in the "first round" goes first in the "second round" and so on. Players continue drafting until they have six scores. They then distribute them as they see fit and create their characters! Note that the DM rolls in order to insure that at least six scores will be left over at the end. Reasons I love this system: 1. It involves rolling dice!
I agree with both points made by toyrobots. There should be a feat chain for low dex sword and boarders. I also think that his idea of improving the main attack of the shield-wielding character instead of a shield bash is a fantastic idea. I would personally like to minimize extra attacks as much as possible because they extend combat at high levels so much. So, a good feat chain such as suggested that is a viable alternative to TWF would be a great addition to PFRPG. I can see several possible feats in this direction, some giving bonuses to hit, others to damage, others giving bonuses to combat maneuvers, others allowing extra 5 foot movements a la fourth edition, etc., etc. So, I second the multiple threads on this topic and call for revision and serious exploration of toyrobots' idea. --Marnak
I am preparing to start a CoCT Beta playtest, and I was considering using this tweak on the starting hit point variant rule. What do folks think? Rule Text: All characters receive an additional number of hit points at first level based on their size and their initial Constitution modifier. This number of bonus hit points is not increased at subsequent levels even if the size or Constitution score of the character changes. Thus, starting Hit Points equal Max HD + Con. Modifier + Size modifier bonus + second bonus equal to Con. Modifier (if positive) In detail: Small Races (Halflings, Gnomes, etc.): +2 hit points + Constitution modifier (min. 0) Medium Races (Humans, Dwarves, etc.) : +4 hit points + Constitution modifier (min. 0) Large Races (Monstrous races, etc.): +6 hit points + Constitution modifier (min. 0) Advantages of the System (1) Retains some of the flavor of the "racial variant" but by moving it to size you now have a generalized rule that can be applied to the races in the splat books. (2) By adding a second Constitution modifier, you bump up gnomes and dwarves a bit so that they effectively float in-between the size categories. You also bump elves down a bit but because they are Medium they aren't penalized as much as they are in the Alpha Three racial variant. Halflings and half-orcs are penalized the most vis-a-vis the Alpha 3 racial variant, but I am ok with that. Plus, the variation allowed by the second Con. bonus helps minimize the racial disparities I think (i.e. halfling could have more bonus hit points than human depending on CON scores of both). My Concerns (1) Is this too complicated? Maybe the +6 for all characters is the way to go because it is just so simple. (2) Does logic require that you give the size modifier bonus to everything with a size? If so, this probably doesn't work. If it doesn't strain logic too much to limit the bonus to PCs (and leveled NPCs), then I think it could be nice solution to the problem. Marnak
My thoughts on the design goal. I think that wizards and other characters should remain relatively fragile at lower levels. That is one of the balancing features of the DND system since first edition. However, I do agree that it would be nice if wizards and related characters were a tad more durable at early levels. It seems overly harsh to have them dropped (or killed) by a single crossbow bolt, so I prefer something that pushes wizard hit points up around the max. damage for a non-crit single hit. Thus, I think wizards should have somewhere between 10 hit points (low end) and 16 hit points (high end) at first level. Note that unusual characters (those with toughness feat or those with negative CON modifiers) would still exist outside of this range. This fits with either the flat + 6 system or the racial bonus system, both of which I think are fine. I still prefer the racial bonus system because I think it feels right flavor wise. Marnak
Just to point out that the "free" knowledge skill I am proposing as an option is not identical to the knowledge (local) skill in the OGL but is restricted and limited to just the ward that the PC was born in. A ward is a fraction of one of the districts of the city. So, a rogue taking knowledge (local) would know a LOT more than a character who takes the variant half-skill I mentioned above. A rogue with this skill would have a good general knowledge of the whole city whereas the PC with the Knowledge (local ward level) skill would only know their own neighborhood. Marnak
No problem. I am glad you liked it, and I will take your suggestion up about mentioning the inhospitable lands nearby. Regarding Diplomacy and Knowledge (local), I agree that those seem to be very important skills. In fact, I have gone ahead and given all of my PCs a free skill rank in either Profession (their choice) or Knowledge (local, their ward of the city only) because I think it will help them flesh out their backgrounds. Knowledge (local) gives them the ability to make rolls for the whole city of Korvosa, which I hope some will take as not all wards of the city will be covered otherwise. Marnak
[QUOTE="sempai33" Don't forget the sanctuary of Shelyn (N8) in North Point. Good catch!
Selecting Skills for a Korvosa Campaign Overview
Acrobatics
Appraise
Bluff
Climb
Craft
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Disguise
Escape Artist
Fly
Handle Animal
Heal
Intimidate
Knowledge (Arcana)
Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
Knowledge (Engineering)
Knowledge (Geography)
Knowledge (History)
Knowledge (Local)
Knowledge (Nature)
Knowledge (Nobility)
Knowledge (Planes)
Knowledge (Religion)
Linguistics
Perception
Perform
Profession
Ride
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Spellcraft
Stealth
Survival
Swim
Use Magic Device
DM Jeff, No problem. I am glad you were interested and hope you give it a try next time you start a campaign. If you do, and you have a chance, drop in on my (yet to be started) Beta playtest thread and let me know what your players thought of it. Marnak
Jeff, I know the timing is bad for lots of folks! Unfortunately, this is my only option given my family duties. In any event, let me go over the character ability score generation system a bit. First, every player (lets say there are four) plus the DM rolls 4d6 (drop lowest) six times. Second, all players announce their results and total up the ability score modifiers. I will roll up some scores as examples. Player One: 16 (+3), 15 (+2), 14 (+2), 14 (+2), 9 (-1), 14 (+2). Wow, really high rolls! Total bonus is: +10. Player Two: 11 (+0), 11 (+0), 12 (+1), 7 (-2), 7 (-2), 14 (+2). Wow, really low rolls! Roll again because bonus is -1 in total. Player Two Re-roll: 16 (+3), 15 (+2), 11 (+0), 8 (-1), 16 (+3), 12 (+1). Total modifiers: +8 Player Three: 4 (-3), 14 (+2), 16 (+3), 16 (+3), 17 (+3), 14 (+2). Total: +10 Player Four: 14 (+2), 12 (+1), 16 (+3), 11 (+0), 13 (+1), 13 (+1). Total: +8 DM: 10 (+0), 10 (+0), 7 (-2), 14 (+2), 6 (-2), 13 (+1). Another negative character. Crazy. Roll again. DM Roll #2: 7 (-2), 13 (+1), 17 (+3), 11 (+0), 13 (+1), 12 (+1). Total: +4 Third, DM divides all the total bonus numbers by the number of rollers and comes up with an average total bonus (rounding to nearest whole number). In the above example, the average is: +8 (+40 divided by 5). The "cap" for all four characters becomes +8. A character cannot exceed +8 when drafting their ability scores. (As soon as they reach the cap, all remaining scores yet to be filled become 10s.) Fourth, all rolls are collected together, separated from the player who rolled them and placed on a central board like this (added things up quickly so forgive any errors): 17 x 2
Fifth, the players roll a d20 and highest gets to draft first, second goes next, etc. However, it is a "snake draft" so person to go last in the "first round" goes first in the "second round" and so on. Players continue drafting until they have six scores. They then distribute them as they see fit and create their characters! Note that the DM rolls in order to insure that at least six scores will be left over at the end. Reasons I love this system: 1. It involves rolling dice!
Thanks for asking Jeff even if you can't make the game! Best, Marnak
Update: There are now two spots available.
Thanks for clarifying this for me (and thanks to Jason for replying in earlier thread). One final thing. Am I correct in assuming that this means one can craft your bonded item for one-quarter market cost (i.e. one-half of the normal price for crafting a magic item)? Marnak
Ok, I might have missed this in another thread, but could someone clarify how arcane bond works with the craft feats? Specifically, is a wizard with a bonded object such as a ring able to use "Forge Ring" on his or her ring ASAP or do they have to wait until they reach the appropriate caster level for Forge Ring (12th), at which point they get the feat for free? My friend and I think that you can start using Forge Ring ASAP, as soon as you meet the pre-requisites for whatever enhancement you want to do. For example, a wizard could probably add protection +1 by third level or so. Is this right? Marnak
Friends, I will be playtesting the Beta rules by running a Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign starting this September at the Comic Book Store in Glassboro, New Jersey. Sessions will be once or twice a month on Fridays from 12:30pm-4:30pm. I realize this time is terrible for most working folks, but I can't swing an evening time due to my family obligations (two young kids at home). In any event, I have three slots available out of six total. For more information, click on the spoiler and/or email me at carrigan@rowan.edu. Spoiler: The Curse of the Crimson Throne
The King is ill and near death, and the city of Korvosa is in chaos! Riots, banditry, monsters, and mayhem are turning the normally safe streets of the city into a war zone. Desperate to regain control of her city, Queen Ileosa seeks heroes to aid her in reclaiming control before the largest city in all Varisia consumes itself from within…. Overview
Time and Place
If you are interested or want more information, feel free to email Alex Mattson at thecomicbookstore@gmail.com or Bill Carrigan at carrigan@rowan.edu. Products Required for Play
Please buy these items from our host, The Comic Book Store! In addition, individuals will be expected, though not required, to put forward $2 per session to underwrite the costs of purchasing miniatures, flip mats, and other products used during gameplay. Such products will be divided up among all the players at the end of the campaign. In addition, each player will receive 100 experience points or one re-roll of any d20 for every $2 contributed. Recommended Product to Purchase
Creating Characters and Rules of the Campaign 1. Due to the limitations of time, no more than six players will be allowed in any game session. Preference will be given to players who are not playing in another DND game at the Comic Book Store. A waiting list will be kept, and individuals on the list will be contacted if a slot opens up. 2. Only the races and classes in the Beta version of the PFRPG are available, and no characters of evil alignment are allowed. 3. 3.5 splat books are compatible with the PFRPG rules and are largely welcomed. I do want to keep the focus on playtesting, however, so please check with me about any thing from a particular splat book that you would like to use. 4. During the first session, character ability scores will be generated through a unique, collective process involving dice rolls and the drafting of ability scores. Each character will have the same ability score modifier total as every other character, but there will be an ability score incentive for the group if it develops a strong, unifying storyline for their working together. Once a player has all of his scores, he or she will be able to assign ability scores as they see fit. Note: this process should produce higher scores than the standard array. 5. Characters begin at first level and possess the average starting gold for a character of their class as detailed in the PHB. Characters joining the campaign after the first session (whether because an experienced player is creating a new character or a new player is joining the campaign) will begin play one level below the lowest level member of the existing party and with starting wealth to be determined by the DM. New characters will be able to draft their ability scores from a pool of scores that will include both those left over from the initial draft and the scores of any characters that have perished or retired from the game. 6. Characters receive maximum hit points at first level plus their Constitution modifier plus the following bonuses depending upon their race: +4 hit points to gnomes, halflings, and elves; +6 hit points to half-elves, humans; +8 hit points to dwarves and half-orcs. At second level and above, characters receive average hit points (rounded down at second level, rounded up at third level, etc.). 7. Characters will advance using the “fast” column on PRPG Table 4.1. In order to fulfill as many of the playtesting goals as possible in limited time, experience points will be distributed in a manner that allows the party to rise from first to twelfth level in about one year of real time, approximately every two sessions. 8. Based on the player’s choice of character background as detailed in the Curse of the Crimson Throne Player’s Guide, characters will receive a small bonus (for example, one background option gives the character a +1 to Will saves). 9. Players who have purchased the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer will be able to use campaign specific rules for each class detailed there. 10. The DM will provide free copies of the PFRPG character sheet. Players should maintain two copies of these sheets and leave one with the DM at the end of every session. In the event that a player cannot make a scheduled session, his character will be run as an NPC by either the DM, a fellow player, or a surrogate player.
First, I like the idea of this ability making healing easier and allowing adventures to continue without as much stoppage. In my campaigns, I imagine this will cut down on the number of cure light wounds scrolls and then wands being carried around. Second, I do think this is a legitimate problem with the system. Doesn't it make an even bigger difference between the Cleric and Druid/Bard in the terms of healing? So far you could be a Bard or a Druid and be fairly proficient in healing when compared to the Cleric, but with this you are not even close. The cleric is already strong enough that you don't need to make it even more powerful vis-a-vis the other possible healers. In terms of ideas about how to fix the problem, I would consider giving Druid's a revised version of the "Vigor" spell that allowed them to heal one person per caster level with that spell. Maybe this could even be made into a supernatural ability that could be used once per three or so levels. This would allow druids to heal more folks in-between encounters. For the bard, I suggest giving a bardic music related power that gives 1d6/2 levels of temporary hit points to allies.
My two coppers: I love the +1 hit point per favored class, as I loathe the idea that the optimal monks in 3.5 are dwarves and half-orcs instead of humans. This mechanic puts human monks more on a par with these races. In general, the boost that this mechanic gives to humans and half-elves is one of my favorite aspects of it, a real way to reward their flexibility. I also like the fact that it gives a small bonus to races that choose to level in their favored classes. Right now, there is no incentive to choose one's favored class, there are only reasons to multiclass and cherry pick that class. For example, why should an elf be a wizard in 3.5? Gnomes or even halflings seem to be a better choice even though elven wizards are supposed to be iconic. There are good reasons, however, for an elven rogue to pick up a level of wizard, which I think is just crazy, not how favored class should work. In th end, I think it is very easy for campaigns who want to encourage multiclassing to house rule the +1 hit point rule away, but I am glad that it is in the rules right now. Marnak
Using Racial Option at the moment, though I am tempted to move gnomes to +6 as another poster mentions. Also, I like Monte's Health/Grace division and would be happy if that made it into the final version of the rules. Marnak
Light Dragon and Others, Thanks for the feedback. I will certainly be making the changes you suggest. Marnak
Dear Folks, I am planning a demo of the Pathfinder RPG later this summer at my FLGS. There are lots of folks there who don't know anything about it, surprising as that is to me. I am hoping the demo will encourage some DMs, espeically those that are sticking with 3.5, to convert to PFRPG. So, I want to realease a one page document to encourage folks to come to the demo. My thought would be to give out a list of the problems that the PFRPG team is trying to fix with 3.5 but not any of the current answers (mostly because I could never fit answers on something folks would read but also to encourage a sense of mystery and anticipation). Does this sound like a good strategy? And, if so, can you help me with my first draft of that list of goals (see below)? I am by no means confident I have summarized all of the design goals or even correctly summarized the goals I touch upon, so I come to the friendly Paizo boards for help. Thanks in advance, Marnak. Spoiler: GOALS OF THE PATHFINDER RPG The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game seeks to correct some of the problems with 3.5e while maintaining backwards compatibility with existing 3.5e products. To quote lead designer Jason Buhlman, “The 3.5 rules set is excellent, but it has its flaws.” What are these flaws that Jason and his fellow designers have identified as needing improvement? 1. Weak Core Classes: The Paizo designers and publishers have stated that they seek to increase the powers of the core classes so that a player that chooses to forego prestige classes or multiclassing is not underpowered vis-à-vis those who do those things. While the powers of all of the core classes have been improved, special attention was given to those classes, like fighter and sorcerer, that seemed particularly troubled by the prestige and multiclassing problem.
To find out Paizo's current answers to these problems, come to my information session on the Pathfinder RPG, visit Paizo.com, or buy the Pathfinder RPG Beta (available in August)!
Dear Folks, I am planning a demo of the Pathfinder RPG later this summer at my FLGS. There are lots of folks there who don't know anything about it, surprising as that is to me. I am hoping the demo will encourage some DMs, espeically those that are sticking with 3.5, to convert to PFRPG. So, I want to realease a one page document to encourage folks to come to the demo. My thought would be to give out a list of the problems that the PFRPG team is trying to fix with 3.5 but not any of the current answers (mostly because I could never fit answers on something folks would read but also to encourage a sense of mystery and anticipation). Does this sound like a good strategy? And, if so, can you help me with my first draft of that list of goals (see below)? I am by no means confident I have summarized all of the design goals or even correctly summarized the goals I touch upon, so I come to the friendly Paizo boards for help. Thanks in advance, Marnak. GOALS OF THE PATHFINDER RPG The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game seeks to correct some of the problems with 3.5e while maintaining backwards compatibility with existing 3.5e products. To quote lead designer Jason Buhlman, “The 3.5 rules set is excellent, but it has its flaws.” What are these flaws that Jason and his fellow designers have identified as needing improvement? 1. Weak Core Classes: The Paizo designers and publishers have stated that they seek to increase the powers of the core classes so that a player that chooses to forego prestige classes or multiclassing is not underpowered vis-à-vis those who do those things. While the powers of all of the core classes have been improved, special attention was given to those classes, like fighter and sorcerer, that seemed particularly troubled by the prestige and multiclassing problem.
To find out Paizo's current answers to these problems, come to my information session on the Pathfinder RPG, visit Paizo.com, or buy the Pathfinder RPG Beta (available in August)!
I appreciate all the feedback so far. I have compiled a list of ideas to share with the owner, and I am hoping that they help. He actually does a pretty good job with the social atmosphere. Lots of folks play as part of the in-house games, so many that restrictions had to be put in place on playing in multiple in-store games. Still, we had 18 or so folks for the last DND session. The problem is that all these players cough up relatively few bucks to the store. The exception are the Warhammer player who, while fewer in number, contribute greatly to the store's economic success. I am hopeful that some of the ideas about encouraging players to spend more (snacks, minis, etc.) will help out. Also, I am thinking about having the store's best GM give a session on "The Art of Running a Game" to encourage players to become GMs, since GMs are the main purchasers of materials and products. Finally, I will certainly see about arranging both an in-store Pathfinder Society game and maybe a separate Pathfinder Beta test game. Thanks for all the ideas, and please continue sharing if you can think of anything else. Marnak
Fourth Edition has not been kind to my FLGS. He hasn't sold that many copies of the core books (35 or so). Many of his customers bought the gift set at Amazon.com for just a few dollars more than he got the set from his distributor. In other words, at a price he couldn't come close to matching and at a price he couldn't really fault the customer. He said he might have done the same if he were just a customer instead of a guy trying to live his dream of running a comic and gaming shop. Complicating matters, of course are that others aren't switching to 4e at all. This wouldn't be bad except that (at least right now) they aren't buying the remaining 3.5e products on his shelf either. I see Pathfinder RPG as a way to help my FLGS, and I have been plugging it to him and other folks around the store, but some of the things that make Pathfinder great (free PDF download) aren't great for him. Obviously, he will have copies of the Beta for sale, but what else can he do, both in the short term and the long term? I have an idea that the Pathfinder Society is designed to help FLGSs, but I am unclear on how it will directly benefit FLGSs. My basic question is: how can he maximize Pathfinder to help his store stay afloat in this confusing time for gamers? Thanks in advance for your help! FYI: He sells comics and games, and he runs in-store games (4e, 3.5e, Warhammer, Heroes, Magic, Axis and Allies) weekly, and you can check out his website at the link below if you want to learn more about the store in particular: http://www.thecomicbookstore.net/ Marnak
I think Robert Brambley's post is very good, and I think his suggested changes are well worth considering. Other good ideas throughout this thread, but I like his ideas the best because the changes are relatively simple and more backwards compatible with 3.5e than some others.
Another Paladin idea after talking with a friend. Assumptions: 1. Paladins are Divine Warriors with High Charisma scores.
Suggestions Paladins gain divine bonuses when demonstrating and following their beliefs in combat. For example, give rewards to paladins that successfully smite evil, paladins that lay hands on others in need, paladins that charge into danger to save their friends, paladins that cover the retreat of their allies at personal risk, etc. These rewards should and could be both for the paladin and the paladin's allies. For example, a paladin that smites evil might get a boost of temporary hit points while simultaneously awarding a morale bonus to attacks to his allies. A paladin that lays hands on others might recieve half as much in healing of his or her own wounds as a bonus for the good act. I am not sure how difficult such ideas would be to integrate into the rules, but what I like about them is the linking of paladin conduct to paladin abilities and powers. Paladins would thus feel mechanically different in play, and the boosts that paladins would give others would make paladins welcome in parties or at least help other party members to put up with the paladin's righteous preachiness, etc. Marnak
My two cents (minted in the early 1980s): 1. Paladins are Lawful Good to me, and this is a sacred cow as far as I am concerned. In fact, the LG paladin is what makes the anti-paladin so cool as a villain. If core rules go away from the LG paladin, the other paladins will not be as cool. The LE and LN paladins need the LG paladin to come first or else their zig and zag from the paladin will be (relatively) flavorless. 2. Paladins in 1E were differentiated from fighters in two ways. First, they had to follow this strict code of conduct. Second, you could only play one if you rolled unbelievably high on your stat rolls (especially Charisma which had to be at least a 17). If you did roll well enough, however, the paladin was way better than a fighter with the same stats. 3E went away from this model with good reason, but I have always wondered if there wasn't something to the original Gygax formulation: rare and powerful but behaviorally restricted. What about giving paladins an ability boost as a "reward" from their God for the sacrifices they are making in following the paladin's code? Perhaps +2 to Charisma at first level with additional increases in Charisma at later levels? Then make their special abilities Charisma related (many already are of course). As an oldtimer, I would even be in favor of setting minimum ability scores for the paladin (and paladin alone). I realize this would go away from 3E's flexible feel, but the paladin is the only class that I ever thought should be restricted. I think the other 3E changes in loosening up earlier restrictions were very good. Also, I wouldn't make the ability score minimums as high as they were in 1E, in fact I would make them low enough that you could build a paladin with the elite array and the 25 point build, but I still like the idea of restricting paladins in this way. It is a game mechanic way of making the player feel their character is "restricted." I know not everyone will agree or like my suggestions, but I have been mulling this over for a while and thought it worth posting for reactions. Marnak
The 15 minute adventuring day can be a problem at times, but it depends upon the nature of the adventure and the DM as much as the rules. Certainly, one could run an entire campaign in which this was never a problem. However, I agree that there can be times when the game mechanics encourage unrealistic or at least unheroic resting and retreat. My preferred solution is to NOT abandon the Vancian system, which I like for its tactical qualities as well as nostalgia. Instead, I might introduce rules that would encourage (though not require) players to continue playing rather than resting after spending significant resources. For example, what do folks think about a 10% experience boost for a party that exceeds a certain total number of ELs during a "day"? I see this as not too much to encourage recklessness yet a nice reward for aggressive parties. One thing I like about parties pushing on when casters are out of major spells is that it restores one of the original balancing aspects in caster vs. non-caster at high levels. I also like that it is a very simple tweak to the rules and thus highly compatible with 3.5E. Finally, I like that it gives the party a game mechanic reason, even if it is a small one, to continue pushing on. I think players want to push on, they are playing to play, not to rest, so any halfway good reason to push on would be enough for many groups I think. Marnak
Gary Gygax entered my mental world in the 1970s, and he was someone that my friends and I talked about all the time. We marveled at his mind and loved his modules. I loved his Dungeon Masters Guide in particular. I read it over and over again. I remember the "sample adventure" section giving me so much inspiration, sparking my imaginiation over and over again. I loved the Dungeon adventure that expanded that map. It was a good adventure in and of itself, but I loved the nostalgia it kindled for me of the days I spent in my room reading Gary's great book. Even before J.K. Rowling used it in the final Harry Potter book, I loved this quote from William Penn about passing on. This is what I feel about Gary Gygax though I never met him. "Death is but crossing the world, as friends do the seas; they live in one another still. For they must needs be present, that love and live in that which is omnipresent. In this divine glass, they see face to face; and their converse is free, as well as pure. This is the comfort of friends, that though they may be said to die, yet their friendship and society are, in the best sense, ever present, because immortal." William Penn, More Fruits of Solitude.
Pax Veritas: I am a player in both campaigns (though I have been a DM in the past), so it is not up to me about the system that we play. However, what I meant my post to indicate is that my campaigns ARE NOT going to change to 4E anytime soon. The DMs and the players for the most part are apathetic, which means that they will not change to the new system. I don't have to fight them on this. They aren't going to change, and it has nothing to do with all of the things you list about 4E. They simply feel that 3.5E works fine enough. We are having fun. Why learn a new system and make a big change? They don't hate 4E. They don't care enough to find out if it is a good system or not. I don't think 4E apathy is good for WoTC. I think the opposite. I think 3E was a big success because there was a genuine demand for a change after the decline of TSR and all of the problems with late 2E. Finally, yes I will buy the 4E books, but this doesn't mean that I am going to start playing 4E. I just want to see how folks have put things together. I enjoy reading game systems that I don't get a chance to play (like Iron Heroes) and 4E may fall into this category. I have little doubt that some of the things in 4E will be good and worth house-ruling into our campaign. In fact, I have already suggested one (static spot numbers instead of "roll spot" everytime a monster shows up) that has received group approval. I am not a 4E hater at all, yet I don't see myself playing 4E for a while. While I might buy the core books, I doubt I will buy the adventures or the splat books if I am not playing the game. This is what I think should worry WoTC.
One of the things that I have noticed with the folks with which I play DND is general apathy about 4E. I play with two non-overlapping groups totaling more than a dozen folks, and most of them know relatively little about 4E and have no real interest in finding out more. This is especially true with my oldest gaming group. This is a group of folks who played DND since first edition but drifted away during late second and came back under third. We now play 3.5E. While I read all the updates on 4E (and find alternating things I like and things I dislike about the changes), the rest of my friends just don't seem to care that much. They like 3.5E and aren't interested in really learning about 4e. They know about it (from me or from coming across discussions of it in other places they visit on the web), but they just don't seem either excited or upset. They just don't care that much. At most, I think they will take some 4e ideas and house-rule them in to our 3.5e game. Maybe there will be a total switchover at some point in the future, but it doesn't seem to be something that will take place very soon. My question: is this experience unusual? Is everyone in your group reading the updates and news on 4E and divided into love/hate camps? Or are my friends more the norm? Reading the boards, I get the feeling that everyone has strong opinions about 4e, but posters are a select breed of course.
Saern: Thanks for the comment, and I hope you and your friends get to play together again soon. GeraintElberion: I like your simple system. If I was in a campaign where we needed to create characters fast, I think I would use your method. Marnak
Ross Byers: Cool. Glad you liked the idea. It is the way our party will go from here on out I think. Marnak
Let me share with you what my group did last time we started a campaign (Savage Tide). It was complex, but we thought that making up our characters was important as we planned/hoped to take them to 20th level. We also wanted to roll dice but still have roughly equal characters in terms of ability scores. Here is what we did. All four players and the DM rolled up six stats using 4d6 drop lowest. The average ability score bonus for the five sets of rolls was determined, and it was a +6. The stats were then dumped together in a pool for "drafting." Each player got to pick a stat, then the next player picked a stat, etc. It was a snake draft, so the player picking fourth also picked fifth, the player picking first picked eighth and then ninth, etc. In choosing your stats, you had a hard cap of +6, meaning that when your character was done, you couldn't have ability bonuses totaling more than +6. Note that the DM rolled up a set of stats giving us six extra "rolls" beyond the minimum needed to outfit our four characters, which was a lifesaver at the end of the draft. Why I liked this system 1. It allowed us to roll dice in making up characters which is fun. 2. The rolling experience was truly cooperative. We each wanted the other players to roll high because high rolls meant a higher average and thus a higher cap for us all. No jealousy at the luckiest roller but high fives instead! 3. The draft itself was a lot of fun and took some thought. Do you grab that 17 sitting out there? Probably but that eats up half of your cap! Maybe you grab that sole 7 out there because you are playing a dwarven fighter and a 7 looks fine for your Charisma and gives you -2 to your cap, thus allowing you to boost your other stats even more. Odd numbers became very appealing in this system, as opposed to point buy where even numbers predominate. 4. There was a fair balance between the stats of all the characters, but we didn't have to resort to the point buy or the standard array. 5. The ability scores were hand-crafted. In other words, if we did the draft again, the numbers would be slightly different. Would the average be +7 this time or +5? Maybe someone would roll an 18 this time? Maybe there would only be one 14 by chance? It gives each campaign start its own flavor. Why it might not be for everyone 1. It takes time to do this. We devoted a whole four hour session to character generation. If you want to roll up characters quickly, this is not for you. 2. Some people like the arbitrariness of random dice rolls. Not everyone is born equal in the real world, so why should perfect equality be in DND? (This makes sense in theory and there is some fun to be had in playing a low ability character, but this wasn't what we wanted to do in this campaign.) Marnak
One thing that concerns me about 4E is the idea of going up 30 levels in the same game playing time it take to go up 20 levels of 3.5E. There is already a part of me that thinks things go too fast in 3.5E. Sometimes, my characters don't even get a chance to use their newly acquired feat, spell, etc., before going up a level and getting another new thing. In earlier editions, characters seemed to have more game time to try out and even get bored with their abilities, spells, etc. before a new level arrived. It made the new level very that much more anticipated. It seems that 4E is increasing the number of feats, spells, etc. that you get at each level while also increasing the pace at which you go up levels. This is worrisome to me. However, the "two minds" title refers to the fact that I can't deny that I have never really been that frustrated with reaching a new level! In other words, I am opposed to the faster leveling in principle but I understand and have shared with other folks the joys of fast leveling. So, am I part of the problem? And what are the responsibilities of the designers? Should they give us what we want (or the majority want) or should they protect us from ourselves, knowing that faster is not always better?
I will flip the question. Can the industry survive not going to a new edition at some point? It seems to me that the closest the industry came to death was late 2nd edition. Third edition seemed to save DND. At least, I know that it did so for me. I had drifted away from the game because I didn't like late 2nd edition (kits, etc.) and my house rules made introducing new players harder and harder. I don't think 3.5e is anything like in the same state as late 2nd edition, but there is a danger of it going down that path because of the need to maintain a revenue stream for Wizards. I would rather have a 4e than a 3.5e system increasingly undermined by the splat books that must be produced to meet Wizards payroll demands. So, I accept fourth edition as an eventual necessity and hope that it is good and succeeds. In my opinion, this could even be good for 3.5e, because it freezes it in place at a point where the system is still solid. So, I agree that the failure of fourth edition would be detrimental to the industry, but I also think not producing a new edition could be dangerous for the industry. In other words, Wizards is in a difficult spot, but if I were in their shoes, I think I would have opted as they did. If they can create a good edition, the industry will prosper. If they fail, at least they went down giving it their best shot. Marnak out.
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