New DDI Prices


4th Edition

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Looks like Wizards has changed the pricing plans for Dungeon and Dragons Insider.

Web-Content Only Subscription Package:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)


Lensman wrote:

Looks like Wizards has changed the pricing plans for Dungeon and Dragons Insider.

Web-Content Only Subscription Package:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)

What were they originally? I never looked.

Sovereign Court

Hmm...I may actually consider them now. Maybe.


Ixancoatl wrote:
Lensman wrote:

Looks like Wizards has changed the pricing plans for Dungeon and Dragons Insider.

Web-Content Only Subscription Package:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)

What were they originally? I never looked.

Wow, very nice plan! Could you source the info?

They've never officially settled on a pricing plan, but earlier rumors were $15 a month, or $10 a month if you bought a yearly plan (so $120 for a year)

Perhaps this is a sign they'd like to start make some returns on their investment, but only have Dungeon and Dragon available. I've said for a while I'd be willing to sign up (even at $10 a month) for just the content they've been delivering in Dungeon + Dragon so ...

I'm pretty happy with the new prices! :)


The old prices where;

•12 months = $9.95/month
•3 months = $12.95/month
•1 month = $14.95/month

So they pretty much halved the cost.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

These seem to only be temp prices until the full DDI service is available.

Randy Buehler wrote:

know there has been a lot of discussion of our business model and our pricing plan. We’ve been paying attention to those conversations and have decided to tweak a few things. Our current plan is to start charging for subscriptions before we have the client applications ready. That means the initial Insider subscription package will include exactly those parts that are currently in free trial mode: the magazines, the Compendium, and the bonus tools. The price tag for this subscription is as low as $4.95 per month, depending on how many months you are willing to sign up for. Specifically:

Web-Content Only Subscription Package:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)

We aren’t ready to discuss our medium or long-term pricing plans, but this is what the short-term looks like.

Im curious to see the encounter and ability builder. Im not really intrested in the table, so a lower price for the rest is good.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Ixancoatl wrote:
Lensman wrote:

Looks like Wizards has changed the pricing plans for Dungeon and Dragons Insider.

Web-Content Only Subscription Package:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)

What were they originally? I never looked.

I think it was 14.95 for 1 month, 12.95 a month for 3, or 9.95 a month for 1 year

Edit: Either way, this doesn't bode well for DDI. Either they figure subscriptions would be so low that they want to keep their numbers up so they have to drop the price, or they figure content will be so low they have to drop the price.

Scarab Sages

Lensman wrote:

Looks like Wizards has changed the pricing plans for Dungeon and Dragons Insider.

Web-Content Only Subscription Package:
12 Months = $59.40 ($4.95 per month)
3 Months = $19.95 ($6.65 per month)
1 Month = $7.95 ($7.95 per month)

Now that's somewhat more reasonable for the offered value. Honestly, they would have faced a lot less criticism if the initial pricing scheme was closer to this than the 10-15/month they started at.

Wait...is this just for Dungeon/dragon? Or will this include all of the promised DDI features? If its just the mags, they still don't get it. if its the whole enchilada, that is a good value for the money, imo.


David Marks wrote:


Wow, very nice plan! Could you source the info?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insidernews/20080806


Kvantum wrote:

I think it was 14.95 for 1 month, 12.95 a month for 3, or 9.95 a month for 1 year

Edit: Either way, this doesn't bode well for DDI. Either they figure subscriptions would be so low that they want to keep their numbers up so they have to drop the price, or they figure content will be so low they have to drop the price.

Or ... they might actually be trying a decent marketing strategy by offering DDI with what they said they would at a low price to cater to their audience even if theyhave to take a bit of a hit to the profit they originally wanted.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Lensman wrote:
David Marks wrote:


Wow, very nice plan! Could you source the info?

Linkified


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ixancoatl wrote:
Kvantum wrote:

I think it was 14.95 for 1 month, 12.95 a month for 3, or 9.95 a month for 1 year

Edit: Either way, this doesn't bode well for DDI. Either they figure subscriptions would be so low that they want to keep their numbers up so they have to drop the price, or they figure content will be so low they have to drop the price.

Or ... they might actually be trying a decent marketing strategy by offering DDI with what they said they would at a low price to cater to their audience even if theyhave to take a bit of a hit to the profit they originally wanted.

Or the content isn't the full service, so they can't charge as much. Since thats what they said, lets go with it.


Rambling Scribe wrote:
Lensman wrote:
David Marks wrote:


Wow, very nice plan! Could you source the info?

Linkified

Wow, sweet! Thank you both! :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I hope when they have the full DDI, they keep the web only content subscribtion as an option.


Arelas wrote:
I hope when they have the full DDI, they keep the web only content subscribtion as an option.

They've indicated that they are considering it (well, technically they said they were thinking about letting you buy/subscribe to only Dragon/Dungeon) at one point. Not sure if that is off the table or still on going. Sounds like a lot of things are being hashed out still, in terms of pricing and such.

Cheers! :)


David Marks wrote:
Arelas wrote:
I hope when they have the full DDI, they keep the web only content subscribtion as an option.

They've indicated that they are considering it (well, technically they said they were thinking about letting you buy/subscribe to only Dragon/Dungeon) at one point. Not sure if that is off the table or still on going. Sounds like a lot of things are being hashed out still, in terms of pricing and such.

Cheers! :)

I think they're going to have to, as if say I signed up for a year but didn't sign up for the rest of the DDI content then I'd still have to get my material.

For me the rest is going to hinge on the Game Table and the stability of their website when the game table goes live but the price point for Dungeon and Dragon is pretty good and $5 a month is an easy decision for me.


underling wrote:
Wait...is this just for Dungeon/dragon? Or will this include all of the promised DDI features? If its just the mags, they still don't get it. if its the whole enchilada, that is a good value for the money, imo.

Looks like this is for ONLY Dungeon and Dragon magazines, the compendium and whatever else is available right now.

Me personally, I am VERY upset with this pricing scheme. This is b#@$!$@~ and basically equates to what I've been receiving for free for the past several years. Most of the web content that was out prior to the fall of the print versions of Dungeon and Dragon seems to have been moved to become part of the new online magazines. Fine. But, now you are charging for something that was free to begin with.

I was all for paying $10 a month for an online tabletop, character visualizer, character builder, the D&D compendium, as well as online magazines and other content.

But, halving the price for basically the smallest part of the package IS NOT a good deal.

In fact, if people pay this price, I imagine once the actual D&D Insider applications come out, it'll be MORE than what the original projected price point would have been. If people are willing to pay $5 a month for the magazines alone, you think WotC is going to sell the tabletop, visualizer and character builder for only an additional $5???

I don't think so.

If they want to charge $5 a month to visit their website, they better have more than a shoddy compendium and a couple articles and adventures...


I think the wording -- "the initial subscription packet," "the price tag for this subscription" (emphasis mine), the unreadiness to discuss "medium or long-term pricing plans" -- strongly indicates that they intend to raise the price when they implement the character generator, visualizer, game table, etc.

Now, if you sign up for a 12-month subscription now (or, you know, as soon as they let you), you'll at least lock in the lower price for that long whether the added functionality comes online or not.


Looks like we just get Dungeon and Dragon and odds and ends as they come online. Does not actually strike me as a bad price even for limited material and I'll probably pick up the 12 month package as it seems pretty clear from the way they are talking that what they really want to do is have enough available that they can charge more but are behind schedule. I might as well grab a full year so that I get the cheapest price available even if they manage to get everything but the games table done and want to raise the prices.

Wow - scoopage, I just got scooped by, like, five people.


Joana wrote:
Now, if you sign up for a 12-month subscription now (or, you know, as soon as they let you), you'll at least lock in the lower price for that long whether the added functionality comes online or not.

The way things have been looking - it's entirely possible it'll be well over 12 months before those apps come online. In fact, that may be the reason for this new pricing scheme. They need revenue and they need it now. And, since those apps have a while before they are released, they need to charge for the content they are putting out now.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Looks like we just get Dungeon and Dragon and odds and ends as they come online. Does not actually strike me as a bad price even for limited material and I'll probably pick up the 12 month package as it seems pretty clear from the way they are talking that what they really want to do is have enough available that they can charge more but are behind schedule. I might as well grab a full year so that I get the cheapest price available even if they manage to get everything but the games table done and want to raise the prices.

Wow - scoopage, I just got scooped by, like, five people.

From Gamer-zero's response the year-deal will only be for webonly features. Meaning if the gametable goes up it will not be apart of this initial subscribtion.


P1NBACK wrote:
Joana wrote:
Now, if you sign up for a 12-month subscription now (or, you know, as soon as they let you), you'll at least lock in the lower price for that long whether the added functionality comes online or not.
The way things have been looking - it's entirely possible it'll be well over 12 months before those apps come online. In fact, that may be the reason for this new pricing scheme. They need revenue and they need it now. And, since those apps have a while before they are released, they need to charge for the content they are putting out now.

I think a number of them will come online faster then that. Getting the character generator to work is a ton of data entry but I don't think its a really complex program.

However I'd not be surprised to find out that we still don't have a games table this time next year.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
P1NBACK wrote:
Joana wrote:
Now, if you sign up for a 12-month subscription now (or, you know, as soon as they let you), you'll at least lock in the lower price for that long whether the added functionality comes online or not.
The way things have been looking - it's entirely possible it'll be well over 12 months before those apps come online. In fact, that may be the reason for this new pricing scheme. They need revenue and they need it now. And, since those apps have a while before they are released, they need to charge for the content they are putting out now.

I think a number of them will come online faster then that. Getting the character generator to work is a ton of data entry but I don't think its a really complex program.

However I'd not be surprised to find out that we still don't have a games table this time next year.

Are you a programmer? My buddy is. He is working on a character generator in the absence of an official one from WotC. It's a pretty complex program to program for. It's a little more complex than simply transferring the text from the PHB into a database. That's called the COMPENDIUM! Ha. :)

And I agree with you. I don't see the gametable and visualizer going live until next spring unless it's in some sort of "public beta" form.


Arelas wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Looks like we just get Dungeon and Dragon and odds and ends as they come online. Does not actually strike me as a bad price even for limited material and I'll probably pick up the 12 month package as it seems pretty clear from the way they are talking that what they really want to do is have enough available that they can charge more but are behind schedule. I might as well grab a full year so that I get the cheapest price available even if they manage to get everything but the games table done and want to raise the prices.

Wow - scoopage, I just got scooped by, like, five people.

From Gamer-zero's response the year-deal will only be for webonly features. Meaning if the gametable goes up it will not be apart of this initial subscribtion.

Truth is, for me, this is a non issue. I actually have no interest in the games table - I mean I might look at it and be impressed/unimpressed by the technical marvel but my D&D reality is about having a cool excuse to hang out with friends, make fun of the guys and spew out an endless stream of double entendres with the girls while a heroic action adventure story unfolds around us.

Game table - no matter how cool just can't get there from here because what I want from game night is fundamentally a social experience.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Truth is, for me, this is a non issue. I actually have no interest in the games table - I mean I might look at it and be impressed/unimpressed by the technical marvel but my D&D reality is about having a cool excuse to hang out with friends, make fun of the guys and spew out an endless stream of double entendres with the girls while a heroic action adventure story unfolds around us.

Game table - no matter how cool just can't get there from here because what I want from game night is fundamentally a social experience.

Couldn't agree more. Honestly, Id rather have them keep the webonly option at the lower price. I cant imagine using the table.


P1NBACK wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
P1NBACK wrote:
Joana wrote:
Now, if you sign up for a 12-month subscription now (or, you know, as soon as they let you), you'll at least lock in the lower price for that long whether the added functionality comes online or not.
The way things have been looking - it's entirely possible it'll be well over 12 months before those apps come online. In fact, that may be the reason for this new pricing scheme. They need revenue and they need it now. And, since those apps have a while before they are released, they need to charge for the content they are putting out now.

I think a number of them will come online faster then that. Getting the character generator to work is a ton of data entry but I don't think its a really complex program.

However I'd not be surprised to find out that we still don't have a games table this time next year.

Are you a programmer? My buddy is. He is working on a character generator in the absence of an official one from WotC. It's a pretty complex program to program for. It's a little more complex than simply transferring the text from the PHB into a database. That's called the COMPENDIUM! Ha. :)

And I agree with you. I don't see the gametable and visualizer going live until next spring unless it's in some sort of "public beta" form.

I've been a programmer but that was long ago and I was young. Still I know enough to know that if your friend can do this all alone and have some feeling that he can make the program in a reasonable amount of time its not that complex. Now I mean relativity speaking as we are talking about coding here. Nothing about a character generator strikes me as being particualrly technically challenging for a good coder. Games table needs to integrate a lot of different apps and needs to follow much more complex rules. We will see how they do there but I think they will have a lot more trouble - they are aiming for a moving target as new material comes out about once a month. If they give us nothing but the core books 11 months from know its not going to be really useful for everyone who wants to play a spellmage or monk or whatever it is we are playing with in 11 months, so I think their kind of screwed in this department.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Game table - no matter how cool just can't get there from here because what I want from game night is fundamentally a social experience.

I agree completely. But, on the other hand, I think there is a lot of potential for the game table.

A group who is technologically savvy and wants to use an LCD monitor instead of a large table to save space and help visualize things. In addition they get to see their character as a mini.

Also, game groups who don't have the time to physically get together anymore. Imagine being able to log in to the game table from your home and game with some lost gaming buddies who live in Denver, St. Louis, New York, and Asia.

Then, think of the potential for those times when people want to expand their horizons, get in MORE gaming than their group can accomplish in a week's time, or just want to see how other people play. They can log on, build a character and access a lobby with tons of games going on in real time.

I also imagine there being some sort of gamer-connection website or channel, similar to people who used Neverwinter Nights to game as a group.

It may not be for you, but I do think the gametable has a lot of potential to bring people lost to D&D back into the fold as well as expand the possibilities of finding games, gamers, and other things.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
I've been a programmer but that was long ago and I was young. Still I know enough to know that if your friend can do this all alone and have some feeling that he can make the program in a reasonable amount of time its not that complex. Now I mean relativity speaking as we are talking about coding here. Nothing about a character generator strikes me as being particualrly technically challenging for a good coder. Games table needs to integrate a lot of different apps and needs to follow much more complex rules. We will see how they do there but I think they will have a lot more trouble - they are aiming for a moving target as new material comes out...

Oh of course! It's definitely not as complex as the game table, which has graphics and lighting and so on.

But, it's more complex than simply a compendium. You have to consider all the calculations and possibilities of character creation and how that impacts each character when it is made.

Anyways, we're getting off topic. The point is, if they are charging $5 for the online content, why would they only charge an additional $5 for several web applications that require constant updates, bug fixes, and server maintainence??


P1NBACK wrote:


Me personally, I am VERY upset with this pricing scheme. This is b%#@*!~@ and basically equates to what I've been receiving for free for the past several years. Most of the web content that was out prior to the fall of the print versions of Dungeon and Dragon seems to have been moved to become part of the new online magazines. Fine. But, now you are charging for something that was free to begin with.

Each month of Dungeon and Dragon over the past two months, and projected for next month, is way, way more material than you've been 'receiving for free' for the past several years (obviously excluding the magazines themselves as they're the subject under discussion).

P1NBACK wrote:


If they want to charge $5 a month to visit their website, they better have more than a shoddy compendium and a couple articles and adventures...

They do, have you actually read the magazines?

This month's Dragon, 9 features plus the monthly columns.

This month's Dungeon, 4 adventures plus the couple of columns.

So, putting it into an economic breakdown and assuming both magazines have an equal perception of worth to you, that means 31.25 cents per adventure and just under 28 cents per article.

Are you seriously saying that's overpriced, if so you have a dramatically different expectation of value for money to me.


CPEvilref wrote:


Each month of Dungeon and Dragon over the past two months, and projected for next month, is way, way more material than you've been 'receiving for free'.

The question is, did you visit WotC website prior to launching the D&D Insider? There were articles nearly daily on the website, including support for my favorite campaign setting Eberron via Dragonshard articles which I loved. In addition, there was maps a week, adventures, and a slew of other content - All for FREE.

CPEvilref wrote:


They do, have you actually read the magazines?

Yes of course. I wouldn't be commenting on how upset I am they are charging $5 a month for it if I hadn't read it would I?

I've used the compendium a total of ONCE so far. This is compared to the Hypertext SRD that I used during my 3.x campaigns a ton during each session I ran. Guess what? That website for the Hypertext SRD was - yup, you guessed it - FREE.

CPEvilref wrote:
Are you seriously saying that's overpriced, if so you have a dramatically different expectation of value for money to me.

Yes. I am. And, I guess I do.

If you are willing to pay $5-8 a month for the magazines, how much are you willing to pay for a character visualizer, builder, and game table??


P1NBACK wrote:

The question is, did you visit WotC website prior to launching the D&D Insider? There were articles nearly daily on the website, including support for my favorite campaign setting Eberron via Dragonshard articles which I loved. In addition, there was maps a week, adventures, and a slew of other content - All for FREE.

Yes, that's why I posted, if I'd not visited before (and actually have a collection of just about everything they put up) then I'd not have bothered answering as it would have been outside my knowledge.

P1NBACK wrote:


Yes of course. I wouldn't be commenting on how upset I am they are charging $5 a month for it if I hadn't read it would I?

I've used the compendium a total of ONCE so far. This is compared to the Hypertext SRD that I used during my 3.x campaigns a ton during each session I ran. Guess what? That website for the Hypertext SRD was - yup, you guessed it - FREE.

You stated a 'shoddy compendium' and 'a couple of articles and adventures. I go on to prove that they have more than 'a couple of articles and adventures'. You ignore the point about the articles and adventures and turn it into a judgement on the value of the compendium.

Now, your personal perception of worth is entirely yours and it's your decision to make, but if you're going to claim something factually untrue (couple of articles) then expect someone to call you on it. And if you then dodge that point then don't be surprised if the only answer becomes:

If you don't like it, don't pay for it.

Scarab Sages

P1NBACK wrote:
CPEvilref wrote:


Each month of Dungeon and Dragon over the past two months, and projected for next month, is way, way more material than you've been 'receiving for free'.

The question is, did you visit WotC website prior to launching the D&D Insider? There were articles nearly daily on the website, including support for my favorite campaign setting Eberron via Dragonshard articles which I loved. In addition, there was maps a week, adventures, and a slew of other content - All for FREE.

CPEvilref wrote:


They do, have you actually read the magazines?

Yes of course. I wouldn't be commenting on how upset I am they are charging $5 a month for it if I hadn't read it would I?

I've used the compendium a total of ONCE so far. This is compared to the Hypertext SRD that I used during my 3.x campaigns a ton during each session I ran. Guess what? That website for the Hypertext SRD was - yup, you guessed it - FREE.

CPEvilref wrote:
Are you seriously saying that's overpriced, if so you have a dramatically different expectation of value for money to me.

Yes. I am. And, I guess I do.

If you are willing to pay $5-8 a month for the magazines, how much are you willing to pay for a character visualizer, builder, and game table??

AGREED! But truly since 4e is the forced edition to me, this is a non-issue for me...I'm not dealing with WotC, no DDI, no 4e...

I like Pathfinder - when I'm employed again, I'll be an avid supporter...when...


P1NBACK wrote:
CPEvilref wrote:


Each month of Dungeon and Dragon over the past two months, and projected for next month, is way, way more material than you've been 'receiving for free'.

The question is, did you visit WotC website prior to launching the D&D Insider? There were articles nearly daily on the website, including support for my favorite campaign setting Eberron via Dragonshard articles which I loved. In addition, there was maps a week, adventures, and a slew of other content - All for FREE.

CPEvilref wrote:


They do, have you actually read the magazines?

Yes of course. I wouldn't be commenting on how upset I am they are charging $5 a month for it if I hadn't read it would I?

I've used the compendium a total of ONCE so far. This is compared to the Hypertext SRD that I used during my 3.x campaigns a ton during each session I ran. Guess what? That website for the Hypertext SRD was - yup, you guessed it - FREE.

I think, for most of us that are viewing this essentially favourably, its due to the quality of Dragon and the potential quality of Dungeon - once WotC makes the amazing discovery that adventures can have this fascinating concept called a plot. $5 for both those magazines, even in PDF is very reasonable.


Well, now with the new pricing, and an actual update on DDI, it looks like people will go flocking back to WotC now.

"Not I," said the cat.


CPEvilref wrote:

You stated a 'shoddy compendium' and 'a couple of articles and adventures. I go on to prove that they have more than 'a couple of articles and adventures'. You ignore the point about the articles and adventures and turn it into a judgement on the value of the compendium.

Now, your personal perception of worth is entirely yours and it's your decision to make, but if you're going to claim something factually untrue (couple of articles) then expect someone to call you on it. And if you then dodge that point then don't be surprised if the only answer becomes:

If you don't like it, don't pay for it.

Maybe you should read. The couple articles and adventures I was referring to was the difference between the FREE content already provided on WotC website prior to DDI versus what is provided now. It's not THAT much more than what was ALREADY provided for FREE on WotC website.

And the compendium IS shoddy. The Hypertext SRD was FAR superior to it and it was developed outside of WotC and was FREE.

You are right. If I don't like it, I won't pay for it. :)


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
I think, for most of us that are viewing this essentially favourably, its due to the quality of Dragon and the potential quality of Dungeon - once WotC makes the amazing discovery that adventures can have this fascinating concept called a plot. $5 for both those magazines, even in PDF is very reasonable.

I'll concede that if WotC comes out with the web applications (builder, visualizer and tabletop) and maintain the original price point of $10 a month for those AND the magazines and compendium, that would be a very good price for me. I was excited about the $10 a month covering EVERYTHING for D&D Insider when they first announced that price. If they can do that, I am happy.

My worry stems from one aspect of the content to be $5. That means, it's highly likely that other aspects will be priced similarly. The tabletop, $5. The visualizer, $5. The character builder, $5.

$5 for the "magazines" alone is pricey to me considering the available content for FREE already available on the WotC website prior to D&DI.


P1NBACK wrote:

Maybe you should read. The couple articles and adventures I was referring to was the difference between the FREE content already provided on WotC website prior to DDI versus what is provided now. It's not THAT much more than what was ALREADY provided for FREE on WotC website.

You may have meant that, but that isn't what you wrote, and at this point I'm done with discussing it with you.


CPEvilref wrote:
...and at this point I'm done with discussing it with you.

Good.


Dragon and Dungeon are pretty much my biggest draws to the DDI currently, so I'm more than happy to pay $5 a month to get them. As for the free articles they used to put up, I read them pretty frequently and think the Dragon/Dungeon stuff these past few months have simply blown them out the water. Maybe I missed the real gems, but a lot of the stuff they used to put up wasn't really exceptional, that I remember (the best stuff was maybe the Mind's Eye, and the web enhancement for their physical books).

The Compendium, despite its name, is not meant to be a SRD, and any competition to see how well it takes its place is going to have it come out a loser. Want to know how many/which Ranger abilities benefit from a high Wisdom though? Compendium is your app. It's very useful for certain tasks the SRD never could do, and very useless for other things the SRD excelled at. One other point on the Compendium is that all of the Dragon/Dungeon content is being thrown in there as well, and presumably all of the stuff from other books (not sure on other books, but I'd certainly hope it is). That's GREAT value!

Whether or not the other tools come in at a higher price in the future, I don't see how complaining about this price now/not subscribing at this price now affects the eventual outcome.

Cheers! :)


I wouldn't be surprised if the game table (and possibly all the client apps) turn out to be vaporware and this $5 a month for the compendium and online content is as far as the DDI ever gets.

Such a missed opportunity. Maybe Paizo should jump on this. How much is an Unreal Engine license going for these days? :)


This is great news it's a huge improvement in their previous stance and it's proof that they actually do listen to their customers (I had my doubts). Hopefully they will keep this pricepoint and option after they release the rest of the toolkit since there are many people who don't see the value in the tabletop and the character builder... that is many people who don't think it's worth renting.

I do share many of PINBACK's concerns though, they previously had a very nice free web site with free mini-adventures, tons of gaming advice, and updates on the campaign world. I don't think it was more than what is currently included in the subscriptions, for example I know that the adventures in Dungeon are far more substantial than the ones they used to have for free.

I don't think I would pay $60/ year for 2 digital magazine subscriptions though. How much did Dragon and Dungeon cost previously? I thought it was less than $60 for the two for a physical copy shipped to your house.

Those concerns aside... overall this is good news.


Dennis da Ogre wrote:


I don't think I would pay $60/ year for 2 digital magazine subscriptions though. How much did Dragon and Dungeon cost previously? I thought it was less than $60 for the two for a physical copy shipped to your house.

Those concerns aside... overall this is good news.

I'm not sure about other people but I think I paid like $75 a year.


Considering that I don't like reading PDFs even on my shiny, giant LCD monitor, even $1/month is too much for me. If they published them in hardcopy I'd sign up instantly.

I'd rather they bring back the paper magazines, really, even if they were more expensive. What a shame.


David Marks wrote:
Dennis da Ogre wrote:


I don't think I would pay $60/ year for 2 digital magazine subscriptions though. How much did Dragon and Dungeon cost previously? I thought it was less than $60 for the two for a physical copy shipped to your house.

I'm not sure about other people but I think I paid like $75 a year.

Ok... even so that was for a print copy which IMO is worth much more than the $15/ year difference. The premium for being able to read Dragon while on the crapper should be at least $30/ year which would put the digital version of the two mags at around $35-40/ year.

Kyrpter wrote:
Considering that I don't like reading PDFs even on my shiny, giant LCD monitor, even $1/month is too much for me. If they published them in hardcopy I'd sign up instantly.

Indeed, a lot of people would prefer the paper copy. How comfortable is it to read a LCD screen while you are on a flight or in a car.


I dunno Dennis. I prefer a pdf copy for a lot of reasons, really, even on the crapper.

Principally, the pdf isn't going to get washed away the next time my house is destroyed by a hurricane. I can't take all my magazines with me, but I sure can take a HD with all of them. More over, it's easier to move my digital magazine collection, or bring the entire thing with me wherever I go. And really, with the online Dragon/Dungeon formatted to actually fit my screen, it is very easy to read.

I realize not everyone will share the same tastes as me, but I think pdf is a better format for delivery. I'd be tempted to buy all of my DnD stuff in pdf form, if I thought it would be similarly formatted for it like Dragon/Dungeon are.

Sovereign Court

Wired Magazine's article: The Miscast Spell: D&D Insider's Missed Opportunity.


David Marks wrote:
Dragon and Dungeon are pretty much my biggest draws to the DDI currently, so I'm more than happy to pay $5 a month to get them. As for the free articles they used to put up, I read them pretty frequently and think the Dragon/Dungeon stuff these past few months have simply blown them out the water. Maybe I missed the real gems, but a lot of the stuff they used to put up wasn't really exceptional, that I remember (the best stuff was maybe the Mind's Eye, and the web enhancement for their physical books).

I did say that there has been more substance from the website. But, my point was that it isn't an overwhelming amount over what was already published for free.

Most of the content I enjoyed were web enhancements, DM and player advice articles, and features like the Dragonshards articles and the Map-a-Week series. These were all provided for free - and I rarely used the free adventures except to salvage for maps and/or treasure/items etc...

But, let's assume these new adventures ARE worth their cost. That still doesn't mean I'll use them. I haven't run one of the new adventures put out (I'm holding out for the next Nic Logue adventure).

If they put out these adventures as pay-per-copy even for 50 cents a piece, and continued providing the other articles and features for free as they had been doing since the website existed, I probably wouldn't buy nearly enough to even out to $5 a month.

Which means, some additional adventures is basically what you are paying $5 for.

David Marks wrote:
The Compendium, despite its name, is not meant to be a SRD, and any competition to see how well it takes its place is going to have it come out a loser. Want to know how many/which Ranger abilities benefit from a high Wisdom though? Compendium is your app. It's very useful for certain tasks the SRD never could do, and very useless for other things the SRD excelled at. One other point on the Compendium is that all of the Dragon/Dungeon content is being thrown in there as well, and presumably all of the stuff from other books (not sure on other books, but I'd certainly hope it is). That's GREAT value!

You're right. Plain and simple. I guess I was looking at the compendium from the standpoint of a DM, and for a player researching character development and creation, this is a fine tool. It's just not what I wanted.

David Marks wrote:

Whether or not the other tools come in at a higher price in the future, I don't see how complaining about this price now/not subscribing at this price now affects the eventual outcome.

Cheers! :)

You're probably right. I wish they would have kept with the plan of keeping this free content until something else was released to actually make the D&D Insider package worthwhile enough for me to consider a monthly premium.

As it stands, WotC lost a customer in me who had planned on subscribing to D&D Insider from the get-go. If the suite of applications ever gets released, I'll be subscribing if it's at the original price point of $10 a month for a year subscription, but anything over that and hell, I'll subscribe to Sinister Adventures or something.


Dennis da Ogre wrote:

This is great news it's a huge improvement in their previous stance and it's proof that they actually do listen to their customers (I had my doubts). Hopefully they will keep this pricepoint and option after they release the rest of the toolkit since there are many people who don't see the value in the tabletop and the character builder... that is many people who don't think it's worth renting.

Those concerns aside... overall this is good news.

This is a valid point. For those who were never interested in the applications, I can see how the magazine-only subscription at a lower cost could be good news.

For those of us interested in the full suite of tools, it's not so good.


Fair enough; I can get what you're saying. Is there a particular app that you're really looking forward to/wanting, or is it really more the whole package you desire?


P1NBACK wrote:


This is a valid point. For those who were never interested in the applications, I can see how the magazine-only subscription at a lower cost could be good news.

For those of us interested in the full suite of tools, it's not so good.

I hear your concerns buddy, but I'm just not sure why you think pricing the magazines + Compendium + bonus tools (whatever they end up being) at $5 a month means the rest of the stuff won't be another $5?

What makes you think this means the final pricepoint on the whole thing will be higher than $10 a month (for a yearly sub)?

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