My group found the original Rise of Runelords a great intro to paizo's world. It was a great transfer from dungeon magazine. It is kind of the classic AP.
The 3.5 AP's areRise of Runelords (now pathfinder in AE)
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Legacy of Fire
Previously Paizo said The Rise of Runelords Anniversary Book was unique. It was a celebration of the company/world more than a new line. They didn't want people to wait for summary editions and not buy paths. Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire also seemed to be less popular and sold less. So maybe we will see Curse redone, but I think it is unlikely.
Despite owning them I haven't run Crimson or Legacy yet, and would happily buy an updated pathfinder version.
Aaron Bitman wrote:
I agree on the gaming system not being a shock. That doesn't make it less sad, just understandable.
Gygax didn't do more Greyhawk gaming products. However, he was allowed to finish his novel series of Gord the Rogue using Greyhawk. I think only two of the books are official Greyhawk, but the rest still uses the world and all its parts and major npcs (4 more books I think).
Im just hoping there arent too many. That and the new warmachine symbols aren't too close. :)
James Jacobs wrote:
So could this also be a hint to the style of the four new classes?
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I like the idea of the one off adventure with pregens highly related to the story of the module. I find the s.o.s of my group like these type (and will play in them). Halloween we did the small Razor Coast module by Sinister adventures which did this via possesion.
I also like the idea of modules connected to an adventure path. When we cant get the actual game in, it be fun to do these side stories. Especially when the AP session ends in a spot where you need everyone for the next session.
My group rarely gets to high levels except at the end of a path which is usually the end of that campaign storyline. Not that I'm against them but I wouldn't want too many.
Of course super modules are small APs so all for them.
Over the last few years:
Barbarian : 2
Rodney Thompson wrote:
I also think that judging an adventure path by its first adventure may be a bit harsh. Life's Bazaar was just a big dungeon crawl. Now, Life's Bazaar did set up the whole city of Cauldron, and of course the Whispering Cairn set up Diamond Lake; for Rescue at Rivenroar, Brindol was already set up by Red Hand of Doom. I also don't think RaR gets enough credit for what it does do in unique ways: it has a series of linked encounters that are part of a village raid, and it has a puzzle surrounding the captives...where the captives themselves are the clues. I'd call that fairly atypical.
I know people at WOTC have Red Hand of Doom to access I don't. The first module for an AP should set up the AP. I found RaR very lacking. Saying that an older module, from another edition, set up the town is for lack of a better word annoying. Then again the last few Digital Insider Updates have put me in the same mood. Honestly you could skip the first module and it would change little.
As for the series of linked encounters, it was okay but I guess my group compared it heavily to Burnt Offerings. Nothing really excited us to continue Scales. It felt as a series of encounters with little personality. Of course as a DM the more I put into it, the more I wonder if it will derail the story later (of course a real outline for the DMs might help with that).
Rodney Thompson wrote:
Beyond that, I think that Siege at Bordrin's Watch and the Shadow Rift of Umbraforge both are as chock-full of interesting locales, background, etc. as you can get. Overlook is a great, detailed, useful city. I'm super jealous of Rob Schwalb's city design, as it makes Mithrendain look so ho-hum next to it. Scott Gray brings the Shadowfell to life. I think both adventures are extremely detailed and leave a lot of hooks for the DM...
These two are far better modules. In fact they (and some of Vaughns comments) are why I decided to run this campaign. In a way Siege fits better as the first module of this AP. However, I still feel very in the dark about the direction of the AP. Was anything in the first module important? Will we see bigger connections between the modules? Can we have an overview of important characters or such?
Are you seriously claiming WB and the company that owns it and EW isn't massively larger than WOTC? :) I mean the harry potter budget alone is probably bigger than the DD budget. I also believe the Potter delay was a recent decision so wouldn't have spread out to all of WB. Kinda curious what the video game companies are doing with the delay. :)
Now I do agree that I doubt WOTC is that good at planning and hiding things. I also think this WOTC guy thing has been a tad over done at this point.
Charles Ulveling wrote:
I admit I've lost track of the realms a bit, plus there's the new realms version. Ive been thinking Greyhawk myself. The Red Hand of Doom Module places Elsir Vale (in the realms) imbetween the Misty Vale and the Forest of Amtar. Changing Brindol to Rethmar and the Rathgaunt hills into Giantshield moutains. Other suggestions were the southern stretches of Chessenta or the boderlands of Damara/Narfell/Implitur. Im not sure how many of those regions still exist in 4e Realms.
Without the AP outline its hard to tell how big the region of the story will be. I was hoping for a where to put it article. However, they havent even gotten the player article out yet.
I converted the first half of Sins of the Savior rather quickly. Honestly, its not that hard as long as you are willing to be a little flexible (I changed some of the summoned monsters). Converting the named characters isn't to bad using the dmg. In fact they are a good deal easier to run.
P.H. Dungeon wrote:
I glanced over the second adventure in the path just now. At first glance it looks significantly better to me than the first adventure. The first one felt like another keep on shadowfell, with a lot of more or less pointless hack and slash. This one seems to have more story, and just looks better overall. However, I haven't looked at it too closely. I'd still like to see an overview for the entire AP, and I think they are doing their readers a huge disservice by not providing one.
The second is a good deal better than the first. However, the lack of overview and character information is annoying. I think they are doing a character article soon, but it be nice before people start using the campaign. My group is going to try it as the off campaigns to our Crimson game. Where would you place Elsir Vale in Greyhawk? (some players like more background for their characters)
Scott Betts wrote:
I hope they modify the generator to either include stats or at least pg numbers/book info and a working print option.
Amusingly enough Id say 4e is closer to warmachine style rules than 3.5. Now its not as gritty as IK but then again warmachine isn't. The 4e ritual seperation of magic fits in quite well. The lack of summoning and such as well. I mean how early can you fly in 3.5? They spent a lot of time removing/redoing spells in the IK guides, cause 3.5 had too much high magic. The weaking of magic items is great since IK items are suppose to be unique. Actually with less healing potions and the healing rules of IK, you better not get hurt. The warlord fits quite nicely. Now Tielfings, Dragonborn and Eldarin don't fit so well. Then again the 3.5 elf, gnome, dwarf, and half orc didnt. In fact they rewrote humans. Of course Warlocks fit quite well, just with diffrent pacts. I mean the gun mage is a warlock.
However, saying that, thats a lot to redo. Id prefer they keep it more like the World Guide and Five Fingers. Few rules and less system specific.
I never found the warmachine storyline a problem for the rpg. It just adds another layer and diffrence between it and other settings. It also adds in some great hooks. Its certainly less damaging in my eyes than the Realms/Dragonlance novels for those worlds.
Which I guess is the disconnect for many of us. To me that industry with FLGS has been dead for a while.
I hope it will also have what book these monsters are from. As 4e grows if the tool doesnt give stats but names it be good to know where they are from. Or maybe have one of the options be to click the books you want to use in design.
Lord Fyre wrote:
Well I dont think most of successful stores see DD as a major product line. Least none I go too (this could just be the region Im in). They all find it way too unreliable product for the return. Sides for all intensive purposes DD was dead for over half a year before 4e came out.
Im still amazed there are DD FLGS. All the ones I know gave up on DD books awhile ago (or do some special orders). Other WOTC products (minis, cards etc) are still around. So I dont see much of a change if DD was removed from the stores near me. We will still talk about diffrent game systems while playing mini/card/wargames. The convience of the internet makes the hobby easier to hold togehter than in 1e/2e days.
I imagine the living campaigns would suffer unless one company filled in the gap quick. I kind of wonder what % of sales are based on living campaigns and home campaigns.
I don't know if the sales of the initial books will be the best way to measure success and if it feels like DD. Most groups are trying it for a bit, requiring multiple books. It is summer which at least for most groups means we aren't playing DD that much. Most groups I know bought the books, few are playing it (mine is one of the few).
Now if the sales of the main books and supplements are doing well this time next year, it will be a better indication that they got the feel right.
Not shocking no one has posted yet. I recieved my books today in the mail. I guess people could be looking a the pdfs, but the campaign is new. I know I have to finish the second half of Sins of the Savior/Spires before I begin Second Darkness. (another player in my group is doing Crimson)
Having said that I like the ideas and I think Im going to start reading the books. :)
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
The basic design of 4e does curb some powergaming and equalize the playing field.
I think the new skill system however does less than the old for getting power gamers to think their character. You autolevel in all skills. A skill focus feat in many ways replaces putting more points in that skill. Of course groups who used skills less and are encouraged by the skill challenge system will see more change from this. Note: I think the skill system is more convient, but I'd say its easier for a powergamer to ignore skills than in 3.5
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Honestly, Id rather have them keep the webonly option at the lower price. I cant imagine using the table.
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
From Gamer-zero's response the year-deal will only be for webonly features. Meaning if the gametable goes up it will not be apart of this initial subscribtion.
Or the content isn't the full service, so they can't charge as much. Since thats what they said, lets go with it.
These seem to only be temp prices until the full DDI service is available.
Randy Buehler wrote:
Im curious to see the encounter and ability builder. Im not really intrested in the table, so a lower price for the rest is good.
Pete Apple wrote:
As a dm set up is far easier. Heck it wasnt too hard to convert sins of the saviour over. For off the cuff they even give suggested damage charts for level etc. The lack of magic items of intrest bugs me, however as dm they can be added back in.
The major reason my group is switching is as you say out of game. We want to have everyone equal at the table which 4e seems better at. Only a few feats are problematic without preplanning. Since we have had a rise of casual gammers in the group this is very convient. More sessions over gaming instead of leveling up is a nice change of pace.
My group switched to 4e for the 5th module of Rise of the Runelords. With a few monster mods/changes it has worked quite well so far. Our end of the 4th module was a little bigger than written. (Of course Ive also added in a good deal of AOW as well). If you do want to do it you'll need to change/invent some magic items for 4e. Either way the story and detail is what really brought me to Paizo, and keeps me here.
Scott Betts wrote:
A lot of the problem is the gameplay people want. 4e is better balanced at all levels in terms of powers/damage for classes. This in some ways makes them similar. I find 3e offers more in its general design. However, 4e seems to work better for more casual gamers. Since my group keeps sliding in that direction so am I.
However, to do it they removed and simplified the magic items to do it. A wand of wonder makes no sense in this new game. I was converting CurseAzureBonds to 4e and thought of all the odd use magic items that don't fit anymore and how they would break the balance. Of course I'll probably add them back in, maybe a scroll mechanic that cost dailies or something.
pres man wrote:
You don't. Instead you tell a story about "dark elves" (using standard elf stats). Of course if you don't use the word "drow" then don't get to have those meanful arguments like, "is it 'drow' with 'row' as in 'row your boat' or is it 'drow' with 'ow' like in 'cow'?"
Why would you want to miss out on that fun? :)
My understanding is you couldn't reimagine an idea from the monsters manual etc. under the GSL. Called Drow or not, you are either redesinging elves or drow. Of course you could come up with a new name. However, it seems you'd be hoping WOTC doesn't see it that way. They dont seem very answering about GSL questions. Heck when were the 3pp told they were coming out?
Id like to see some paizo 4e, I just dont think it's wise for them right now.
Scott Betts wrote:
Maybe your right and 4e is inevitable and we all will be playing it soon (my group so far likes it, of course none of the groups near us do and the store isnt getting more 4e products). However, it doesn't get around that many 4e supporters (especially new ones) will stick with Wizards products only. Paizo switching to 4e would have hurt them greatly the past few months. Since they'd have wasted products to...October now? Even their next AP wouldnt work in the GSL. Effectively they'd have to stop production for a while and restart. I wonder if they can afford that. Especially if it requires getting rid of people who are currently paying money.
How do you tell a story about drow that your not allowed to use by GSL?
Actually it wouldn't since the website currently has nothing for Chronicles in Sept, unless the site hasn't been updated (possible).
Im definitly for the vote of one product per subscription per month.