
Comrade Anklebiter |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |

It's true that transgendered (and for that matter, gay) issues aren't at the forefront in the Galtan class struggle, but rest assured that the Commonwealth Party of Galt (M-L), as the Hosseterian vanguard party, seeks to be "the tribune of the oppressed" and champion the causes of all those victimized by Golarion society. We also like orgies.
We also also really like Alfred Kinsey. [fistbumps Sister Margatroid]
Also also also, if you think a gay man seducing a straight man is difficult, you should see goblin-pinkskin seduction. It's hawt!!

Qunnessaa |
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I don’t mean to step up to flog a horse everyone else is more or less satisfied is well and truly dead, but to keep the focus on Golarion, as someone not too familiar with the details of the campaign setting, just what is Lastwall? Is it really just the wall, or are there some hardscrabble farms and towns that struggle to support the defenders, and desperately hoping that even a suicidal incursion won’t make it over to destroy what little they have before being defeated? Would such farms and towns supply both provisions and soldiers, in the latter case by way of drafting any additional children that look hardy enough and aren’t needed to run the farms? In that case, assuming for the moment (as I believe is reasonable) that what we would recognize as trans people in our world are born in Golarion at about the same prevalence, I don’t see any reason why they might not be born in Lastwall and be called up, or even volunteer. Depending on how desperate they are, and depending on what codes of honour/shame are active in the region, I can see a terribly unhappy trans person in Lastwall, or travelling there for the purpose, deciding that while they won’t just kill themselves, an honourable death defending against the horde will put them out of their misery. Mutatis mutandis, there are people in real life who do similar things: they may be averse to suicide, but they’ll join the police force and volunteer for the most dangerous inner-city neighbourhoods, or join the army and hope they get deployed someplace really, really nasty. I would call that heroic – tragic, but heroic. It’s not a choice anyone should ever feel they have to make, but things will get even more depressing in rather short order if we start thinking about other social norms that force decisions that shouldn’t be necessary.
EDIT: I certainly don’t mean to suggest that that’s the only way for a trans person to be “heroic.” In Golarion terms, I dearly love the idea of someone who’s got her- or him- self together as best as can be hoped under the circumstances, and is resolved to go off righting wrongs and doing great deeds and all that other adventure-y goodness, and if they can get their hands on a certain elixir while they’re at it, so much the better.

Amaranthine Witch |
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Actually, Lastwall is not a wall at all, it's a nation. Here is the wiki article.
Basically, after defeating the Whispering Tyrant and imprisoning him in Gallowspire, the crusaders of the Shining Crusade settled nearby to watch over it, to ensure that nobody and nothing could free the lich.

3.5 Loyalist |

Actually, Lastwall is not a wall at all, it's a nation. Here is the wiki article.
Basically, after defeating the Whispering Tyrant and imprisoning him in Gallowspire, the crusaders of the Shining Crusade settled nearby to watch over it, to ensure that nobody and nothing could free the lich.
Yeah, it is a pretty cool idea for a state. Watching, always watching.

RJGrady |
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Tokenism? Golarion is an alien world. The fact that there are humans there at all should be the most glaring tokenism to anyone who reads the setting critically. Since humans are included purely as viewpoint characters, why shouldn't Paizo include transgender characters?
I don't think 3.5 Loyalist is wrong. All they have said is that they don't like transgender characters (and by logical extension, transgender people). I am willing to believe 3.5 Loyalist is reporting honestly, although I can sympathize with those who call troll. It can be hard to tell the difference between someone who is seeking validation for a hurtful viewpoint from someone who is seeking to hurt and annoy others. I really don't know, and I don't think it matters all that much.
Some people are fine with half-orcs and sorcerers with genie bloodlines, but still have a problem with a reasonable representation of real-world humans in a world that is presented as having Earth-like humans. It's odd, but that's what it is. Paizo has made the decision to cater to LGBT people and their friends, allies, loved ones and supporters, and not to bigots who think people who are different from them should be invisible. Living as an agenda I can support; the agendas I fear are those of hate, oppression, and callousness.
If I want to experience a fantasy in which queer folk and differently gendered folk are not acknowledged as part of the human family, all I have to do is turn on the television. I, personally, was born just soon enough to have had a troubled and painful high school experience, knowing that people like me were not accepted. Even today, I struggle sometimes with trying to judge how and when to let people know things which are not obvious, but which are important; things which do not define my work or my social relationships, but which cannot help affecting them. People as young as my younger siblings have grown up in a completely different America. It really is a different world. The fact that Paizo would take a solid position of support and alliance is a miracle to me, and I am grateful.
The fact that there are people out there who feel they have the right to demand that others justify their existence or their visibility as persons makes me very, very angry.

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Just because there is a 'gay' subculture in modern society doesn't mean that being gay automatically makes you part of that subculture whether you like it or not.
LGBT is far from being a monoculture. In fact you'll even have the occasional member of one group look down on other groups within this designation with almost the same amount of disdain a Fundamentalist Straight might give. Virtually the only thing they do have in common, is oppression by the presumed "Norms". This wiki article has a good representation on just how hard and touchy it is to define this community.
Homosexuals have been mentioned back as far as classical times with one Greek general arguing that a brigade of homosexual soldiers would be the best thing he would have, since each soldier would be motivated to perform better to impress his lover. Also many greek figures of note, including Alexander the Great maintained male lovers on the side, even if they were married with children. (Greek culture was incredibly misogynist, even by the standards of Victorian Britain.)

Chris Lambertz Digital Products Assistant |

Removed a lot of posts and replies. Do not use the word "rape" as an adjective, call other posters trolls, or throw around personal insults. Also, most of the posts removed were off-topic, and relevant to the real world, rather than Golarion. Please keep the thread on topic and revisit the messageboard rules before posting.

Pippi |

Perhaps of interest, Golarion is a place that could actually inflict non-congenital transgenderism on a character. The wrong elixer or belt, and all of a sudden you've got a character who might find it their new life's mission to correct their new gender difficulty.
I don't think this would qualify as homosexuality, per se, as a man who had been transformed into a woman who was heterosexual before the change would still identify as a man, and therefore his attraction, regardless of his new physical represention, would still be that of a man for a woman.
But I think this would be an interesting story to tell (if it hasn't been told already), and one that wouldn't be outside the scope of "Heroic Fantasy".

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Perhaps of interest, Golarion is a place that could actually inflict non-congenital transgenderism on a character. The wrong elixer or belt, and all of a sudden you've got a character who might find it their new life's mission to correct their new gender difficulty.
I don't think this would qualify as homosexuality, per se, as a man who had been transformed into a woman who was heterosexual before the change would still identify as a man, and therefore his attraction, regardless of his new physical represention, would still be that of a man for a woman.
But I think this would be an interesting story to tell (if it hasn't been told already), and one that wouldn't be outside the scope of "Heroic Fantasy".
For background reading for such a scenario, you might want to read the Dragonsword trilogy by Gael Baudino (Dragonsword, 1990, Duel of Dragons, 1991 and Dragon Death, 1992), or at least the first book of the trilogy (I loved the second and third to little tattered scraps as a teenager).

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It's true that transgendered (and for that matter, gay) issues aren't at the forefront in the Galtan class struggle, but rest assured that the Commonwealth Party of Galt (M-L), as the Hosseterian vanguard party, seeks to be "the tribune of the oppressed" and champion the causes of all those victimized by Golarion society. We also like orgies.
We also also really like Alfred Kinsey. [fistbumps Sister Margatroid]
Also also also, if you think a gay man seducing a straight man is difficult, you should see goblin-pinkskin seduction. It's hawt!!
Love, Gender and Rats in the Galtan Revolution anyone?
... no I'm not sure where I came up with that title.

Pippi |

For background reading for such a scenario, you might want to read the Dragonsword trilogy by Gael Baudino (Dragonsword, 1990, Duel of Dragons, 1991 and Dragon Death, 1992), or at least the first book of the trilogy (I loved the second and third to little tattered scraps as a teenager).
Thanks! I'll look them up. :)

TanithT |
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It can be hard to tell the difference between someone who is seeking validation for a hurtful viewpoint from someone who is seeking to hurt and annoy others. I really don't know, and I don't think it matters all that much.
Free speech is one thing, but walking into an LGBT safe support space to tell transpeople that they don't exist and that LGBT characters should not be allowed on Golarion was a little beyond that. And yes, it matters. You missed some posts, because we have thoughtful moderators who already removed the worst of it. I didn't. Unfortunately.
I don't actually care what the motives are for someone telling me I don't exist and that I should go hide myself away and never force my unwanted presence on normal people or get to live a normal life. No matter what the excuses and justifications are, doing this to other people is a hurtful and evil act that goes beyond personal preferences and viewpoints.
No, we do not have to tolerate intolerance.

MMCJawa |

so a bit of a semantic question?
Does Anevia still count as Trans? She has been magically changed into a women, so biologically her gender matches her sex. Obviously a lesbian still. And obviously, pre-potion, she was Trans then.
Magic makes gender reassignment a bit different than in real world, where surgery and hormones can only partially correct this...cosmetically you might more closely resemble resemble the gender you identify with, but genetically and as far as internal anatomy, you are still of the female sex. A man for instance might identify as a women, but still would be unable to be pregnant or other related issues
Magic presumably would change the whole package, right down to the chromosomes

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so a bit of a semantic question?
Does Anevia still count as Trans? She has been magically changed into a women, so biologically her gender matches her sex. Obviously a lesbian still. And obviously, pre-potion, she was Trans then.
Magic makes gender reassignment a bit different than in real world, where surgery and hormones can only partially correct this...cosmetically you might more closely resemble resemble the gender you identify with, but genetically and as far as internal anatomy, you are still of the female sex. A man for instance might identify as a women, but still would be unable to be pregnant or other related issues
Magic presumably would change the whole package, right down to the chromosomes
Trans gender covers much wider variety than just male/female and female/male, it also covers much more ambivalent descriptors that aren't "fixed" by a simple gender swap spell. It also covers people that simply aren't tied to a fixed gender identity at all. So it's quite possible that she might still be trans, only in a body that's a bit better suited to her psyche.
If people think that Anevia was a tough nut to chew, I wonder what they would think of Heylel Tolmin, member of the First Cabal in Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade. Tolmin was a fusion of two mages and their Avatars, one male and one female.

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But I think this would be an interesting story to tell (if it hasn't been told already), and one that wouldn't be outside the scope of "Heroic Fantasy".
Polymorph Other as a hostile spell, and reincarnation woes, have been around since 1st edition. The fantasy / sci-fi genre has dealt with gender-swapped reincarnation (in comics like Camelot 2000 or Mantra, for instance) and brain-swapping and involuntary bodymorphing for ages.
A simple bestow curse can be customized to do whatever you want (within reason). Afflicting someone with a fantasy version of gender dysphoria (so extreme that the character suffers penalties to actions, perhaps roughly equating to the sickened condition, for simplicities sake, to represent how they are interphasing with the shape and function of their body and their perception of what their body should be, awkwardly) could be a reasonably powered custom curse. In a world with physical transmutation magics, a cursed person might 'cure' themselves by magically transitioning genders, only to have the curse later broken, and find themselves, once again, in the 'wrong' body!
I could see a Chelaxian or Qadiran or Katapeshi slave-trader with access to shape- (and gender) altering magic using his powers to alter the gender of particularly skilled slaves to whatever is 'selling for more' in the market he's approaching.
Quirky Chelaxian hoighty-toighty dean of transmutation studies at the Korvosan Academae decides he finds Halfling women to be kind of off-putting in an uncanny valley / overdeveloped creepy woman-child sort of way, so he arbitrarily transmutes any female Halfling slaves into males before putting them to work in his manor.
Qadiran slave-procurer in Okeno has a standing order for a lovely female half-elven bard who knows the following songs and speaks the following languages, from the Satrap himself! He's got the exact perfect slave, only 'she' happens to be a 'he.' One simple transmutation, and he's a rich, rich procurer...
A powerful gnoll matriarch in service to holy mother Lamashtu has just savagely beaten down a revolt by her oldest daughter. She curses her daughter to become a male, losing her ability to bear children and be a mother (possibly the most important gift any gnoll gains from Lamashtu) and becoming an automatic social inferior in this matriarch run pack.
In any culture where genders have specific roles or are restricted in status in some way, using magic to curse a rival to become a member of the lower-status gender would be a viable tactic. Using magic to defy gender-restrictions and make oneself into a member of the higher-status gender would be even more likely. Just as the mamelukes and eunuchs of various real-world cultures (as well as the less institutionalized military cross-dressers of the civil war) altered their gender or perceived gender (or just removed themselves from the breeding pool / dynastic family dynamic / lines of inheritance entirely), someone with access to fantastic means of gender change, in a culture where genders are unequal, would have strong motivation to change their status with a spell.

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And let's not forget the fairy tale of Fret-Frunners (can't remember how it's spelled), the princess who disguised herself as a man to protect her sisters from being enslaved by an evil emperor, and was gender-swapped when she stole some holy relic from a hermit living near Jerusalem at her emperor's behest. As she ran, the hermit shouted a curse after her:
"If you are a man may you turn into a woman, but if you are a woman may you turn into a man!"
Ended up working out pretty sweet, as it allowed him to be a true prince so he could marry the princess his emperor was trying to impress, but she refused because Fret-Frunners had done all the work. Emperor was so pissed off he choked to death and Fret-Frunners became the emperor and married the princess.
It's a weird story and I wish I could link it, but Google seems to be failing me. I remember it being in this book, though.

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MMCJawa wrote:so a bit of a semantic question?
Does Anevia still count as Trans? She has been magically changed into a women, so biologically her gender matches her sex. Obviously a lesbian still. And obviously, pre-potion, she was Trans then.
Magic makes gender reassignment a bit different than in real world, where surgery and hormones can only partially correct this...cosmetically you might more closely resemble resemble the gender you identify with, but genetically and as far as internal anatomy, you are still of the female sex. A man for instance might identify as a women, but still would be unable to be pregnant or other related issues
Magic presumably would change the whole package, right down to the chromosomes
Trans gender covers much wider variety than just male/female and female/male, it also covers much more ambivalent descriptors that aren't "fixed" by a simple gender swap spell. It also covers people that simply aren't tied to a fixed gender identity at all. So it's quite possible that she might still be trans, only in a body that's a bit better suited to her psyche.
If people think that Anevia was a tough nut to chew, I wonder what they would think of Heylel Tolmin, member of the First Cabal in Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade. Tolmin was a fusion of two mages and their Avatars, one male and one female.
Also being transgender covers more than just biology...

TheAntiElite |
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So while I'm sitting here hungry, waiting to get food and trying to power up the smut engines for some creativity that might get published and bring the sexy times back into fantasy in general, I came back to this thread and noticed the disputes returning, and while most of what's being discussed now has been hashed out, I think I've found, in a sort of further-digested state, what some peoples' complaints are, and what the counter to it is, without (Hopefully!) making it into some sort of mendacious finger-pointing name-calling antagonistic condemnation.
Some people feel that the approach of having diversity, in any and all of its myriad permutations and manifestation, is tokenism to bolster sales and appeal to some 'Political Correctness Police', bringing an unwelcome intrusion into their game. Instead of calling them out as bigots (no matter how tempting), the approach might be instead be directed at why the inclusion is so egregiously offensive as to require excising and extraction from their game...and whether, like any other subject, the question is of actual discomfort or if it's a layer of complication they aren't sure they are prepared to handle. I don't get offended if people don't have ethnic diversity in a game if the game is supposed to be centered around a region with minimal far-reaching commerce, travel, or immigration 0 homogenous societies tend to, well, be homogenized. By contrast, if a group is planning on playing an all-ethnic or all-race party, the question becomes if the campaign can justify it - after all, no one would bat an eye at a group that was all elf, or all dwarf, so why would an all-Garundi or all-Qadiran garner similar problems?
When it comes to excluding orientation, yes, the matter comes up that people confuse it with sexuality. It's understood that if there's a parent-child relationship, in some manner, there's an implicit expectation that somewhere, somehow, someone did the horizontal lambada. To this I say - so? Biology dictates this, and yes magic can circumvent the requirements. I hold no ill-will to my Alphabet Soup Brethren when I pose the question - is it mandatory for your character's parents to be two moms or two dads? If it's part of your character concept, great, go for it, especially if you're running the game. Want romance with a cohort or a peer at the table? I'm fine with it...but not everyone's me. I've long-since admitted I'm a smutmonger and a shameless perv, and my tastes are mostly known purely because I'm outspoken about it, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about things that aren't my taste, like playing barbarians or hating on monks.
Now, keeping in mind that what I say at the moment seems to play into the hands of those who are exclusionistic by nature, but such is not the aim - I wanted to illustrate where such non-diversity 'works', absent malice. Rather than the contrived 'shove down your throat' analogy that always comes up in regards to refraining from being patently offensive, I'd instead ask if where most of the resistance comes about is out of other behaviors or implications or habits that may stem not from the individual but from others whom the aggrieved had previously interacted with. I don't fault people who have bad experience on a personal level for having abhorrent views, but at the same time I tend to want to change their mind mind through action and disabusing them of their notions. If someone expects me to have a sideways cap, sports jersey, and pants down to about my knees, I'm rather pleased when the caricature that's in their head shatters into a thousand pieces, especially if I can make their brain melt a bit further by making them swing at a different curve-ball along the way.
In my experience, a substantial portion of objections arise due to prior mishaps and what has been read elsewhere - from GMs who don't allow players to cross-gender role-play, to those who reject anything that smacks in the slightest of animal-folk, to those who suffer from bearded female dwarf mandate delusions, they are usually shaped by past into the pain they are at present. Defying their expectations is the surest way to change them. This doesn't mean Closeted Characters all day, every day - it does mean having tact, unless everyone has thrown that out the window. I'm pretty sure that a GM who is allowing the party arcane caster to 'put on his robe and wizard hat' if you know what I mean is not going to show contradictory results, unless they are enjoying playing up to the wizard versus you because of personal orientation boundaries, and by extension feel that there's an unreached level of intimacy. Wooing them may not be the answer.
I think I mentioned once that people sucking face in public are annoying, regardless of orientation, especially if they're crass about it and overtly obnoxious. I find being a Self-Actualized Stereotype more offensive than that, and I'm a difficult person to get on the bad side of, or irritate. I had an example I wanted to use, but realized it was more suited to off-topic and political analysis, and that's entirely in the opposite direction of where I wanted to go with this.
TL;DR play well with each other, don't game with bigots, don't BE a bigot, and don't be That Person, I guess.

TheAntiElite |

And of course, after having submitted and taken a moment to try to gather thoughts, I think I hit on the question I wanted to ask, and that I have a difficulty in putting into words, while conveying all its permutations and lack of antipathy.
What, if anything, does your character's sexual orientation matter?
I ask this not in derision, to say 'hey, guess what, you don't matter' - I don't ask to be thick or exclusionary or hostile. The question relates more to how one expects to be integrated into a game, set for example IN Golarion.
In many places, it amounts to the pronouns used to refer to one's lover-in-distress, or whether or not certain supernatural abilities targeted at gender affect someone. Does it come down to having to frequently tell NPCs who are immediately attracted to a character due to an 18 Charisma 'Nope, sorry, you aren't my type?' Does it come down to having to re-arrange rewards and expectations because after slaying the dragon, instead of wanting to marry the rescued princess one wants to become the handsome, rugged, manly king's catamite? Pathfinder is clearly not a pure 'hack and slash' game, even in its own Golarion setting, but there is a substantial focus more on merit than inherent qualities, a vaguely meritocratic egalitarianism that, by default, is fairly orientation-agnostic, with emphasis coming of the person running the game, rather than inherent to the setting itself. With that in mind, and speaking as someone who ENCOURAGES the diversity out of hand rather than out of a personal agenda, I am genuinely curious as to how much, and how, it matters.
Not Devil's Advocacy, here, more that I want to better understand why I'm in favor of something, and welcome the passionate rallying inspiration to buoy my support.

Hakken |

Hakken wrote:I agree. Hate having to random roll when i have a concept in mind. I have actually had a gm make you roll the stats in order----got rolls totally unplayable for the character I had in mind.
I would rather they do something like other games. Gender neutral.
humans weight would equal (strength + constitution)X6
so 10 str and 10 con would be 120 lbs
20 str and 20 con would be 240your low str/low con wizards would weight less and your high str/high con fighters/barbarians would weigh more.
as for the encumbrance----almost every gm I play with uses that.
how many of you on the rope---how much do you weight--I need to check to see if it breaks
how much gear do you have? is your horse encumbered enough to slow it in the charge
ok-they are trying to haul you up on the rope-how much do you weigh...
This is like the most irrelevant point ever mind you and has approx. 0 to do with homosexuality in Golarion, so... spoilered.
** spoiler omitted **
umm my post was 100% relevant in response to Slaads post about where women used to have a lower strength. Now women have an equal strength but lower weight meaning lesser encumbrance for mounts they are on or for things supporting their weight. THEREFORE women characters actually have an ADVANTAGE. If they want to equalize things then they need to equalize them--ie same strength means same weight.
Just because your GMs to include your PFS GMs don't follow the rules and use RAW, most of ours do. We have had monks not be able to pick up healing potions because it takes them over the limit--they have others carry them for them.
as for the homosexuality part of it? I could care less if someone plays their characters as homosexual than I do if they describe their hair as purple. As long as there are no stat bonuss for it.

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Personally, it doesn't matter for all my characters, but it matters a lot for some.
Most of my characters I don't really think about it. If it comes to the point where there is an opportunity to romance with an NPC, it will probably matter more because I really like the NPC than because I have some innate idea of my character's sexuality.
That said... it matters for some characters.
In a (sadly stalled) PbP Jade Regent game I was playing, my (female) character had a thing for Ameiko*. She didn't quite realise it yet, because my concept for her was all about growth - the inner journey to match the outer journey of the AP, essentially. Coming to grips with her feelings for Ameiko, regardless of how her relationship with her turned out, was going to be an interesting thing for me to explore.
Part of this is because I had a lot of trouble coming to grips with my own sexuality... so having the same kinds of experiences happen to my character would be... hmm. Weirdly therapeutic, maybe? Not sure.
* This is totally not because I, as the player, have a thing for Ameiko.... Not at all.... *Cough*
Another character I have in mind for Pathfinder Society is pretty flamboyantly lesbian or bisexual (haven't decided). There's no real reason for this. I just think it matches her gregarious and flirtatious nature well. Although part of the reason is probably because I recognise that I mostly do not play homosexual (or bisexual) characters, despite being queer myself... and yet I really want to express that part of myself in some ways, some times. I only wish I could be as super confident and super charismatic as she is... :P
Side note: I feel slightly ambivalent in actually playing this character, though. I worry what people at the table might think, somehow.
A third, more recent character is definitely bisexual. He's just a good guy who appreciates handsome and attractive people no matter what. It seemed to fit with his relaxed and affable nature. So I went with it.

TheAntiElite |

Personally, it doesn't matter for all my characters, but it matters a lot for some.
Most of my characters I don't really think about it. If it comes to the point where there is an opportunity to romance with an NPC, it will probably matter more because I really like the NPC than because I have some innate idea of my character's sexuality.
That said... it matters for some characters.
In a (sadly stalled) PbP Jade Regent game I was playing, my (female) character had a thing for Ameiko*. She didn't quite realise it yet, because my concept for her was all about growth - the inner journey to match the outer journey of the AP, essentially. Coming to grips with her feelings for Ameiko, regardless of how her relationship with her turned out, was going to be an interesting thing for me to explore.
Part of this is because I had a lot of trouble coming to grips with my own sexuality... so having the same kinds of experiences happen to my character would be... hmm. Weirdly therapeutic, maybe? Not sure.
* This is totally not because I, as the player, have a thing for Ameiko.... Not at all.... *Cough*
See, this? Right here? MOVED me.
Not just the part about it being a TotallyNotACrushWhateverDoYouMean, but the fact that it was as much a spiritual as physical journey, an experience of growth not merely in capabilities, but as a person, and by extension learning to appreciate all of the aspects of said - it brings the whole of the character together. To contrast...
Another character I have in mind for Pathfinder Society is pretty flamboyantly lesbian or bisexual (haven't decided). There's no real reason for this. I just think it matches her gregarious and flirtatious nature well. Although part of the reason is probably because I recognise that I mostly do not play homosexual (or bisexual) characters, despite being queer myself... and yet I really want to express that part of myself in some ways, some times. I only wish I could be as super confident and super charismatic as she is... :P
This would bug me, on some level. Not that people can't be flamboyant, by any means, but I find that quality is a general turn-off (figuratively and sexually) regardless of gender. There's terms I've used of a board-inappropriate nature to describe this in relationship to artistic temperament AND social aspirations in the direction of 'metrosexuality'. It's not something I would consider myself proud of - I feel about it the way I feel about those who fall into the Ghetto stereotype that proceed to tell me that my behaviors and speech mannerisms are Angloid. Though they don't say Angloid, they call it 'talking white'. And it makes me want to be violent, when it really shouldn't. Flamboyance, often unto 'Flame On!', annoys me beyond reason. When looked at as adventuring beyond one's personal 'safe zone' in regards to characterization, I will admit it mitigates a LOT of the offensiveness, to me - in many ways, it reminds me of how I feel after posting as a certain alias, which often comes across as being borderline, if not outright, racist, even though I've been mistaken for a member of said ethnic group on more than one occasion and spend a lot of time working with said ethnicity. What is a lighthearted homage quickly comes to feel like the most antagonistic derision when looked at through a non-sympathetic lens.
Side note: I feel slightly ambivalent in actually playing this character, though. I worry what people at the table might think, somehow.
A third, more recent character is definitely bisexual. He's just a good guy who appreciates handsome and attractive people no matter what. It seemed to fit with his relaxed and affable nature. So I went with it.
I can understand about the concern, doubly so when I put myself into that perspective. And, amusingly enough, third character concept actually strikes me as inexplicably okay, but that may come of simply viewing the template in my head as Jack Harkness. Who, to my eye, is less about being queer, and more the unstoppable and inexorable need to fornicate with every living being encountered on a level that transcends the irascible James T. Kirk by Shatner.
Which, strangely enough, is not even a queer trope in my head, no matter how much people try to think of it as such. To me, that's a fairly gendered trope of almost overwhelmingly stereotypically male nature, in specific the 'any port in a storm'...or more, 'any suitably lubricated/-able orifice/sphincter'.

Hakken |

ahhh on that issue I have no care. Let people do what they want.
Mine was in a response to Slaad--who first derailed it complaining about how women were untreated fairly in the beginning. I pointed out that now it is male characters getting treated unfairly. I want to make a cavalier--but almost feel like I have to make a female one just to save those 35 or so lbs since they do make a difference.
as I said in my thread right before yours---so long as there is no stat advantage, I could care less how a person sees their character, gay, purple, 7 feet tall, elephant ears, hillbilly whatever. Want to model your character on pee wee herman, willie nelson or anyone else go ahead. Want to play a character convinced that armadillos talk to youi--go ahead.
It should only matter if it makes an impact on gameplay.

Hakken |

I will say the one rule which should not be crossed for people playing homosexual characters is the same one that exists for people playing heterosexual ones.
If your hitting on another character and they ask you to stop--you stop. If a female is playing a female character at a table and a male playing a male character keeps hitting on her--it can make her uncomfortable.
The same would go if a male playing a male character was hitting on another male playing a male character. If it bothers them--stop.
You don't have a right to roleplay your character (taking actions to include another character) that crosses over onto rude. A male character who was bothered by your male character hitting on him is no more homophobic than a female character who was bothered by the male character would be heterophobic. It is basic courtesy in both cases.
The person making the unwanted advances is the one being rude and intolerant.
so long as you don't cross that line (either homosexually or heterosexually), then have fun and play your character.

Todd Stewart Contributor |
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And of course, after having submitted and taken a moment to try to gather thoughts, I think I hit on the question I wanted to ask, and that I have a difficulty in putting into words, while conveying all its permutations and lack of antipathy.
What, if anything, does your character's sexual orientation matter?
I ask this not in derision, to say 'hey, guess what, you don't matter' - I don't ask to be thick or exclusionary or hostile. The question relates more to how one expects to be integrated into a game, set for example IN Golarion.
It matters in various capacities and in different amounts depending on circumstances within the game, and the style of the game.
Let's take my PFS character Nisha: CG female tiefling (protean bloodline) sorcerer/rogue. She's both a port of a Xaositect NPC I used in two Planescape campaigns, and in this current iteration, she's more or less a complete self-insert of myself mentally. Obviously I'm not a tiefling, and sadly from my perspective I'm outwardly male, but in terms of personality and attraction, it's a spot on match for myself.
The character's sexual orientation has never actually come up in a PFS game, and if it ever even mattered such as an NPC hitting on her, it would be ignored or not returned if the NPC were male, or probably glossed over if the NPC were female. For organized play it's mostly a non-factor, but knowing the character's inner feelings and motivations, and even some head-canon regarding her history makes it easier for me to RP her, with some more depth, and it's easier to get inside of her head.
In a home campaign if I played the same character I'd play out her attractions or not as it became relevant in the game, assuming that the GM and players didn't mind PC/NPC or PC/PC romance to happen. If it didn't fit the style it wouldn't be a major deal, but again, knowing the characters motivations (of which orientation is one) helps in getting a deeper, immersive play experience.

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By flamboyant I don't mean... Insert gay stereotype here, FYI. She is a Taldan actor (a bard), and her actress nature makes her prone to exaggeration and theatrics. In retrospect, flamboyant may be a poor choice of words considering its use w.r.t. gay men in particular.
I also view her flirtatious nature as being both a celebration of beauty (which she holds up as almost divine) and simply part of her exaggerated gregariousness.