Homosexuality in Golarion


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Sovereign Court

http://elizabethcourts.daportfolio.com/ I believe Lillith has some on her deviantart portfolio.


nighttree wrote:
Lilith wrote:
I am happy thinking that all of the iconics are bisexual. It makes for lovely fan service picture ideas. ^_^
What exactly is a "fan service picture" ???

Stuff like this. And this. And this. And this. And this. (Links NSFW, by the way, unless you have a very permissive workplace.)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:

So.. since there are 500+ posts in this thread, and since I don't want to look through them all, I was wondering if the Iconic James talked about on page 1 has been "outed"?

Nope. I doubt we'll ever out our iconics unless we start doing more fiction with them in which their sexual preferences make a difference to the storyline.

Until then, it's probably safe to assume that they're all bisexual, I guess. ;-P

Ok done.... wait that does explain a lot.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lilith wrote:
nighttree wrote:
Lilith wrote:
I am happy thinking that all of the iconics are bisexual. It makes for lovely fan service picture ideas. ^_^
What exactly is a "fan service picture" ???
Stuff like this. And this. And this. And this. And this. (Links NSFW, by the way, unless you have a very permissive workplace.)

That first one was new. Or at least new to me, i don't remember seeing it the last time I checked your page.

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
Until then, it's probably safe to assume that they're all bisexual, I guess. ;-P

That explains Josh Frost's Ezren avatar's wandering eye.

Liberty's Edge

Don't have much to add other than I support Paizo's view on the matter and will continue to do so by giving them my money.

Edit: As a side note, given her strength and rage, Amiri likely uses death by snoo snoo ^_^


One of the things that first attracted me to the Pathfinder RPG was learning that it incorporated Lovecraftian elements into its world.

Then I started perusing the Core Rulebook at my local Borders, and liked what I saw -- especially the various sorcerer bloodlines/powers.

Then when I came across the gay couple in "Burnt Offerings," I was sold!

This may sound offensive/puzzling to some -- and it's not meant to be -- but I'm not entirely sure that a heterosexual person who has grown up in a heterosexually dominant culture, where heterosexual imagery and heterosexuality itself are constantly reinforced (even on an almost subliminal level), can fully understand how affirming it is to see something like this -- even as "throwaway" as it might be -- put out there for everyone to see. And for most everybody in the NPCs' town not to be fussed about it -- except for the rich old fogies who live in their mansion outside town where they can look down on it sneeringly.

You never got to see this sort of thing in a TSR product! (Well, except for Rufus 'n' Burne, but that wasn't intentional -- or was it??)

Cheers,
JohnH / Wanda


Misery wrote:
Edit: As a side note, given her strength and rage, Amiri likely uses death by snoo snoo ^_^

ROFL! Yes, absolutely!!

I'll bet she sounds like Bea Arthur, too...

Cheers,
JohnH / Wanda

(Yes, I've decided upon my D&D Drag Name -- Wanda V'orcus...)


Interesting post. Getting in late, nonetheless.

I have never really cared about a person's sexual preference. I'm not threatened by it, don't worry about getting gay germs, etc. I joke. Gay germs...heheh. I laugh at the ignorant's expense. I have also not experienced what homosexuals may have experienced in life.

I find gaming to be an enjoyable venture. It allows me to escape a lot of things that come with the crapola that is typically found in 'real life'. Crapola like politics, religion, etc. Sure, we have these things 'in game', but I don't see them in the same light. Man, if I do, it's time to get that pool-side room at the local mental health institute. You see what I'm getting at.

So, whether homosexuality needs to be a part of the game...well, it doesn't really matter to me. There are plenty of indie games that tackle hard core, real life, controversial issues, and they sure don't appeal to me and my desire to game/escape.

Having said all this, I might actually throw in a male diva that tends to fawn all over my male-dominated adventuring party in the next adventure. HAY! *snap* That would be high larious.


What I'd be curious to know more about too is the views of the non-human races of Golarion on homosexuality.

I should think that elves, half-elves and gnomes wouldn't be fussed by it.

Not sure about halflings.

Dwarves might be against it just from the viewpoint of procreative necessity. Likewise with orcs, plus the added stigma of being perceived as "weak," etc.

Thoughts, anyone?

Cheers,
JohnH / Wanda

Shadow Lodge

Wanda V'orcus wrote:

What I'd be curious to know more about too is the views of the non-human races of Golarion on homosexuality.

I should think that elves, half-elves and gnomes wouldn't be fussed by it.

Not sure about halflings.

Dwarves might be against it just from the viewpoint of procreative necessity. Likewise with orcs, plus the added stigma of being perceived as "weak," etc.

Thoughts, anyone?

Cheers,
JohnH / Wanda

This is a good question.

re: Halflings. The way the PRD describes halflings, I don't think they would have a problem.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Hmm, well Orcs, being the more 'simplistic' race might have a difference between homosexuality and homosexual acts.

IE, being a 'bottom' might be a stigma, while being on top might be seen as an act of dominance.

"Ewwww, what are they doing?"
"Thog proving superiority to Krusk?" *shrug* "No big deal. Krusk moan like elf girl."

At the same time they might look askance at a male that likes males. "Thog superior to Krusk, Thog not like Krusk."


Dragonborn3 wrote:
re: Halflings. The way the PRD describes halflings, I don't think they would have a problem.

But conversely, I could see there being a problem with a mixed-race couple (one halfling, one human) in a human community due to the halfling's size/stature, etc.

If some busybody didn't realize that the halfling was a halfling and not, say, a human child . . . I don't think I need to go on, do I?

Cheers,
JohnH / Wanda

(who hopes nobody is offended by the above post)

Grand Lodge

Wanda V'orcus wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
re: Halflings. The way the PRD describes halflings, I don't think they would have a problem.

But conversely, I could see there being a problem with a mixed-race couple (one halfling, one human) in a human community due to the halfling's size/stature, etc.

If some busybody didn't realize that the halfling was a halfling and not, say, a human child . . . I don't think I need to go on, do I?

Cheers,
JohnH / Wanda

(who hopes nobody is offended by the above post)

Without going into detail, you might want to read "Gnomes of Golaron". It speaks alittle on that subject.


Wanda V'orcus wrote:
This may sound offensive/puzzling to some -- and it's not meant to be -- but I'm not entirely sure that a heterosexual person who has grown up in a heterosexually dominant culture, where heterosexual imagery and heterosexuality itself are constantly reinforced (even on an almost subliminal level), can fully understand how affirming it is to see something like this -- even as "throwaway" as it might be -- put out there for everyone to see.

Aaaaaaaaand you'd be wrong.

As a black d00d growing playing D&D and not seeing anyone who remotely looked like me (in the hero role anyway) from basic through 2nd Edition, it was AWESOME seeing black (or at least not definitively white. Redgar I'm looking at you bro...) human iconics in 3rd Ed.

Paizo has definitely taken steps to show even in a throw away manner that Golarion is a diverse setting. I dont know if I've said this before (I think that I might have) but thanks guys I appreciate it alot.

I know I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne right now and two of female players are a couple. They've just met the Queen for the first time and were aware of the rumors about the queen and her bodyguard Sabine. After witnessing them interacting ( a glance here, Sabine holding out her arm for the Queen as he rises to leave the room) first hand they are convinced that the rumor is NOT a rumor at all. I'm just waiting for one of them to ask me if that little detail was part of the adventure as written or if that was me. If they dont ask I'll be more than willing to let them think that is was me. :-)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

The others.

Gnomes - Gnome problem. In a society where illusions aren't uncommon, in a race connected with Fae, I don't see them really caring. "Dude, you're with another guy." "Oh yeah? I saw you with the dryad. You were shagging a tree man."

Dwarves - It's been a while since I've read DoG, been playing Dragon Age, and those Dwarves seemed to not care so much if it wasn't cross caste. Oghren wasn't too shocked about Branka, but then again, it is Oghren.

Elves - kind of contradictory "Centuries of life lead elves to ignore small details. “Small” to an elf might be quite large to a human, but the elves dismiss complaints as products of short-term thinking." - EoG, pg 5. And yet "Births are rare among elvenkind, so much so that the successful birthing of a newborn is an event for the whole community." - EoG pg 9.

I think most elves would consider gender a 'small thing' in the case of "Wuv, Twue Wuv" At the same time, I'd think they'd look down on an elf that flits from relationship to relationship if they're all the same gender. "That Zevran, he spreads himself around so much, maybe trying a girl would settle him down, and produce children."

Shadow Lodge

Now that I think on it, with all the prejudice and stigma half-orcs already get(Advanced Player's Guide and Core Rulebook, I'm glaring at you!) those that are homosexual may never be able to admit because they don't want to deal with anymore hatred and ignorance then they already do.

On the other hand though, they may not care and be open about it.

As for being seen as weak, well, that could work to the clever half-orcs advantage.


Herald wrote:
Without going into detail, you might want to read "Gnomes of Golaron". It speaks alittle on that subject.

I have that supplement, but have largely skimmed it. I shall have to explore this part in a bit more detail, methinks...

Cheers,
JohnH / Wanda


ShinHakkaider wrote:
Aaaaaaaaand you'd be wrong.

In which case, I am happy to be proved wrong! :D

ShinHakkaider wrote:
As a black d00d growing playing D&D and not seeing anyone who remotely looked like me (in the hero role anyway) from basic through 2nd Edition, it was AWESOME seeing black (or at least not definitively white. Redgar I'm looking at you bro...) human iconics in 3rd Ed.

Thank you for providing another perspective to this discussion -- one that I have to admit I hadn't considered when making my original post.

If you don't mind my asking, how did you feel about the non-heroic depictions of non-Caucasian people in old-school D&D/AD&D? (The only instances I can think of off-hand include most drow and the blind fighter who was second-in-command of the Slavers' Stockade -- was his name Icar?)

(And then again, in the Forgotten Realms we had the nation of Thay, led by the lich Szass Tam, who seemed to me to be the Faerunian equivalent of Fu Manchu, leading his nation of Yellow Peril against the nations of the West...)

ShinHakkaider wrote:
I know I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne right now and two of female players are a couple. They've just met the Queen for the first time and were aware of the rumors about the queen and her bodyguard Sabine. After witnessing them interacting ( a glance here, Sabine holding out her arm for the Queen as he rises to leave the room) first hand they are convinced that the rumor is NOT a rumor at all. I'm just waiting for one of them to ask me if that little detail was part of the adventure as written or if that was me. If they dont ask I'll be more than willing to let them think that is was me. :-)

Again, thanks for sharing these details with us, Shin!

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda


Matthew Morris wrote:

Hmm, well Orcs, being the more 'simplistic' race might have a difference between homosexuality and homosexual acts.

IE, being a 'bottom' might be a stigma, while being on top might be seen as an act of dominance.

"Ewwww, what are they doing?"
"Thog proving superiority to Krusk?" *shrug* "No big deal. Krusk moan like elf girl."

At the same time they might look askance at a male that likes males. "Thog superior to Krusk, Thog not like Krusk."

Heh! Thanks for that, Matthew. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it would make a lot of sense (to me, anyway).

Plus, a canny orc chieftain could use this mindset to, erm, double his pleasure . . .

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda


baron arem heshvaun wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Until then, it's probably safe to assume that they're all bisexual, I guess. ;-P
That explains Josh Frost's Ezren avatar's wandering eye.

Waaaaaaandering eyes, *clap* *clap* are watching YOU, they're watching your eeeeeeevery moooooooooove.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
baron arem heshvaun wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Until then, it's probably safe to assume that they're all bisexual, I guess. ;-P
That explains Josh Frost's Ezren avatar's wandering eye.
Waaaaaaandering eyes, *clap* *clap* are watching YOU, they're watching your eeeeeeevery moooooooooove.

And the pain medication has kicked in I see.

Liberty's Edge

I just had to comment on the name Wanda V'Orcus. Absolutely brilliant.

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Wanda V'orcus wrote:

[

But conversely, I could see there being a problem with a mixed-race couple (one halfling, one human) in a human community due to the halfling's size/stature, etc.

That does indeed happen sometimes, which is why Kaer Maga has a significant population of halfling/human interracial marriages living together in the area of The Warren called the Halfway Houses. In addition, I threw in some of the slang that gets used in such situations (especially in the red light districts)... for instance, an attractive halfling might be called a bend (as in "worth bending down for"), whereas a derogatory term for the same halfling would probably be "ankle-biter," again with sexual connotations. Of course, if you DON'T approve of such liaisons, you might call the human involved a "shorteyes," for obvious reasons.

Incidentally, the slang in City of Strangers was one of the most fun sidebars to write. I love various cants, both real world and make-believe, and it's neat to imagine conversations like:

"D'ja hear 'bout the switch shorteyes an' the payride bend? Told 'im no, an' 'e went ballistic--caught 'is 28 from a coupla strays down in Tarheel. Gawks, neh? Wotcha gonna do?"

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Sutter, you are one sick puppy.

Contributor

That's why we love him!


alleynbard wrote:
I just had to comment on the name Wanda V'Orcus. Absolutely brilliant.

Why thaaaaank you, dahling!

I do try... ;-)

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda


James Sutter wrote:
Wanda V'orcus wrote:

[

But conversely, I could see there being a problem with a mixed-race couple (one halfling, one human) in a human community due to the halfling's size/stature, etc.

That does indeed happen sometimes, which is why Kaer Maga has a significant population of halfling/human interracial marriages living together in the area of The Warren called the Halfway Houses.

Considering the Childlike feat...

Things that make you go "Eeeeee..."


James Sutter wrote:
Wanda V'orcus wrote:

[

But conversely, I could see there being a problem with a mixed-race couple (one halfling, one human) in a human community due to the halfling's size/stature, etc.

That does indeed happen sometimes, which is why Kaer Maga has a significant population of halfling/human interracial marriages living together in the area of The Warren called the Halfway Houses. In addition, I threw in some of the slang that gets used in such situations (especially in the red light districts)... for instance, an attractive halfling might be called a bend (as in "worth bending down for"), whereas a derogatory term for the same halfling would probably be "ankle-biter," again with sexual connotations. Of course, if you DON'T approve of such liaisons, you might call the human involved a "shorteyes," for obvious reasons.

Incidentally, the slang in City of Strangers was one of the most fun sidebars to write. I love various cants, both real world and make-believe, and it's neat to imagine conversations like:

"D'ja hear 'bout the switch shorteyes an' the payride bend? Told 'im no, an' 'e went ballistic--caught 'is 28 from a coupla strays down in Tarheel. Gawks, neh? Wotcha gonna do?"

Pathfinder polari -- I love it! :-D

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda

Shadow Lodge

Nebulous_Mistress wrote:
James Sutter wrote:
Wanda V'orcus wrote:

[

But conversely, I could see there being a problem with a mixed-race couple (one halfling, one human) in a human community due to the halfling's size/stature, etc.

That does indeed happen sometimes, which is why Kaer Maga has a significant population of halfling/human interracial marriages living together in the area of The Warren called the Halfway Houses.

Considering the Childlike feat...

Things that make you go "Eeeeee..."

Detective Bard/Investigator Rogue: "Today, on To Catch a Predator..."

Grand Lodge

Regarding the human/halfling issue I wrote a brief short story on my facebook page about a human barbarian who rescues a halfling woman from slavery in Absalom. He immediately is attracted to her and is relieved she is indeed a halfling and not a child.

As I develop the story, the assassin sent to kill them is gay and takes a liking to the halfling... which will save their lives.

Need to get back on that story sometime soon.

[edit- haha noticed where I said liking earlier I accidentally wrote licking! lol]


Wanda V'orcus wrote:
Pathfinder polari -- I love it! :-D

In fact, considering the name of the gaming world, you should name this slang "Golari"! (Long as I get the credit/copyright... ;-D)

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda


Erik Mona wrote:
Sutter, you are one sick puppy.

Can we keep him? :)

Scarab Sages

James Sutter wrote:
... for instance, an attractive halfling might be called a bend (as in "worth bending down for"), whereas a derogatory term for the same halfling would probably be "ankle-biter," again with sexual connotations. Of course, if you DON'T approve of such liaisons, you might call the human involved a "shorteyes," for obvious reasons.

I was thinking they could call him 'pin-dick', on the grounds that a halfling is all he could satisfy?


As a GM you have to know where your target group is going to go. Romance is a popular theme in a lot of our games. Our gaming group consists mostly of straight males be we have a gay male and a bi-female gamer in our group. We are all close friends and give each other the respect we all deserve. I have no problem with directing a romantic situation from a straight, gay, male or female point of view. My gamers like it and the idea is to have fun so if they like it I have no problem with including it.

Also as an artist, I have trained myself to see beauty in all things, that includes both males and females. A closed mind limits creativity, so I keep myself as open minded as possible.

Contributor

Snorter wrote:

I was thinking they could call him 'pin-dick', on the grounds that a halfling is all he could satisfy?

There is no way that Paizo will ever officially comment on certain physical ratios between the races, but I'm pretty sure that Lem would take issue with that comment...


I always enjoyed Terry Pratchett's take on dwarves in his Discworld novels.

For the uninitiated, male and female dwarves on the Discworld both have beards, and both genders tend to act like "stereotypical" dwarves (i.e., chainmail everywhere, bristling with axes, horned helmets, singing songs of gold, etc.). As a result, most dwarven courtship rituals consist of discreet ways of trying to determine which gender the courted dwarf actually is...

In one of the novels, a dwarf on the Ankh-Morpork City Watch comes out as openly female, much to the consternation of the city's dwarven population. Soon Cheery Littlebottom's hobnailed boots have sturdy heels on them, and experiments with lipstick grow increasingly successful. (And while she faces social opprobrium from her culture at large, some of them approach her surreptitiously to give the makeup a hesitant try...)

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda


James Sutter wrote:
Snorter wrote:

I was thinking they could call him 'pin-dick', on the grounds that a halfling is all he could satisfy?

There is no way that Paizo will ever officially comment on certain physical ratios between the races, but I'm pretty sure that Lem would take issue with that comment...

This reminds me of Gene Roddenberry's near-obsessive interest in discussing the size of male Ferengi reproductive organs . . . :-X

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda


Matthew Morris wrote:
Elves - kind of contradictory "Centuries of life lead elves to ignore small details. “Small” to an elf might be quite large to a human, but the elves dismiss complaints as products of short-term thinking." - EoG, pg 5. And yet "Births are rare among elvenkind, so much so that the successful birthing of a newborn is an event for the whole community." - EoG pg 9.

I had forgotten that in Pathfinder, it's the elves who have the low birth rate (which the dwarves in the Forgotten Realms had, IIRC).

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda


(I may have mentioned this elsewhere...this is a long thread).

In my present PF campaign, I have one player who is bisexual. When he opened up and let us know this, I told him that it was up to him to play his character how he wished. And none of the other players cared either...in effect, he came out to the group in real life through Pathfinder. (And at the risk of feeling superior, I was proud of the players by not making a big deal either way about it.)

In the past, with other groups, I've had some bisexual players, and one lesbian player. While it sometimes came up in the game as far as who they were attracted to, it never really became much of a playing issue. (Actually, me and my hetero friends were probably more obnoxious about our "romantic details" in a few of the games.)

As far as I'm concerned, as a GM, let the players play who they want. If a hetero player wants to play bi or gay, as long as they don't make it offensive, I say go for it. And the reverse can be true too.

And, of course, some players don't play romance and sex at all. One of my long-running players confounded one of my early 3.5 games when I had an entire romantic subplot set up and he pretty much ignored the whole thing. Left me with a major NPC (damsel in distress) with no one willing to help her for a while...

As for actual sexual detail in the game, most of the time I leave that level to the players (though in a game with players under 17, we keep the stories at Fade To Black/ FTB). This next comment wil be VERY sexist, but at least with the groups I have GM'd, the female players tended to be a lot more explicit than the males. Though they might have just been more confident than the males.

Now, for my present game, there has been a question about sex and clerics/ paladins. We have a cleric a of Sarenrae and a Paladin of Sarenrae. They want to know just what IS permitted in their faith.

I don't see anything in Sarenrae's writeup that implies that she would be offended by friendly, loving erotic encounters. So, I let it slide (though the screams of "SARENRAE!!!" in the night got to be a bit funny...

Contributor

James Sutter wrote:
Wanda V'orcus wrote:

[

But conversely, I could see there being a problem with a mixed-race couple (one halfling, one human) in a human community due to the halfling's size/stature, etc.

That does indeed happen sometimes, which is why Kaer Maga has a significant population of halfling/human interracial marriages living together in the area of The Warren called the Halfway Houses. In addition, I threw in some of the slang that gets used in such situations (especially in the red light districts)... for instance, an attractive halfling might be called a bend (as in "worth bending down for"), whereas a derogatory term for the same halfling would probably be "ankle-biter," again with sexual connotations. Of course, if you DON'T approve of such liaisons, you might call the human involved a "shorteyes," for obvious reasons.

Incidentally, the slang in City of Strangers was one of the most fun sidebars to write. I love various cants, both real world and make-believe, and it's neat to imagine conversations like:

"D'ja hear 'bout the switch shorteyes an' the payride bend? Told 'im no, an' 'e went ballistic--caught 'is 28 from a coupla strays down in Tarheel. Gawks, neh? Wotcha gonna do?"

Very glad to see this going on in Golarion.

In my home-brewed world, I have humans, halflings and for that matter ogres/hill giants as members of the same species and it's just a matter of double recessives who's born as what. And while of course there is a lot of prejudice and troubles, it's made more interesting by the situation where the staunchest "Humans are the one true race!" type might end up with a halfling or ogre son and the whole "You realize this is your side of the family" business.

Sovereign Court

Wolf Munroe wrote:

One more vote for "I want to know which of the iconics is gay."

More interested in the original iconics than the new iconics. We can leave them a mystery for the time being. Which of the original iconics is gay?

I think they'll be like The Village People. We're at the "One of them is gay... guess which." stage now. Soon, we'll all claim one of them isn't gay but the rest are ("No way is the Indian gay, man!!"). Ultimately, we'll find out they're ALL gay.


Krome wrote:
...I wrote a brief short story on my facebook page about a human barbarian who rescues a halfling woman from slavery in Absalom. He immediately is attracted to her and is relieved she is indeed a halfling and not a child...

This makes me think of Leon. :)

Contributor

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Krome wrote:
...I wrote a brief short story on my facebook page about a human barbarian who rescues a halfling woman from slavery in Absalom. He immediately is attracted to her and is relieved she is indeed a halfling and not a child...
This makes me think of Leon. :)

This makes me think of the reverse situation of halflings passing themselves off as human children--enterprising pimps and madams tarting up human children so they can pass as adult halflings.

Hell, given the number of halflings who can pass for human children already, there would be those in the halfling community who'd have a thing for it, so using a human child without make-up?

"Ooh, you can't grow a beard, boy. If'n I din' know betta, I'd mistake thee fer a tall git's kid...."

That's because he is a tall git's kid--ahem, human child--and the madam made sure the lights were low and you were high enough to not know any different.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
...halflings passing themselves off as human children...

...and this makes me think of the halfling brothers in Grunts! (which is a damn awesome read).

Dark Archive

There's an interesting discussion going on right now over at rpg.net about a heterosexual male GM uncomfortable GMing any same-sex male PC romantic or "fade-to-black" action:

simontmn;12705354 wrote:

This is a bit of a tricky issue, I'm particularly interested in the response of homosexual players, but anyone who thinks they can offer a useful perspective is welcome to respond.

Reading a recent thread on ENW on whether the GM should allow PCs of a different sex than the player (answer: yes) reminded me of this issue. In an RPG with the potential for romance and/or sexual situations, what's your thoughts on being asked to conform to the GM's specific comfort levels re sexual orientation?

In particular, I'm a heterosexual male. I'm OK GMing heterosexual PC-NPC romances and quickly-fade-to-black sexual content, whatever the gender and orientation of the player(s). I'd be ok GMing a lesbian romance, though I can't recall any such in any of the games I've run. However I think I would be uncomfortable GMing any romantic or even fade-to-black sexual content for an openly gay male PC, again whatever the gender or orientation of the player. This obviously means a double standard.

My question then is, particularly for homosexual players, what would you think of being asked to play a heterosexual PC of the opposite sex? OK? Grave breach of etiquette? Highly offensive?

Thoughts? On the one hand, I agree: it's a double-standard. On the other hand, I know, being a GM myself, there are gaming situations I find highly uncomfortable at times that players seem to enjoy (e.g., monsters playing, well, monsters).

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

joela wrote:

Thoughts? On the one hand, I agree: it's a double-standard. On the other hand, I know, being a GM myself, there are gaming situations I find highly uncomfortable at times that players seem to enjoy (e.g., monsters playing, well, monsters).

My thoughts? Yes it's a double standard. Nothing's wrong with that. "Life's tough, get a helmet."

He's being open and honest about what he can do and can't. We don't harm children in our local game, because of player history. I checked with one player when he was behind the screen that he'd not wig out if my female character flirts with his NPCs (guy generates false positives on 'gaydar' and doesn't like being hit on). We often 'beat on the exes' around the table, but not when the kids are playing, etc.

Most groups make exceptions of story content for the players personal histories/tastes. Why shouldn't the GM get the same break?


I typically do the whole fade-to-black deal for sexual encounters in my games, since I figure I can leave that much up to the PC's imagination without making anyone at the table feel uncomfortable.

As far as homosexuality goes in games, I've had a decent number of gay NPCs, and a few that were bisexual, both males and females. Since I'm going for a hybrid political intrigue/high adventure game I haven't had time for any PCs to build a relationship with the NPCs, though a PC is currently married (To his, "hot elven sorceress wife", his words, not mine) and we've agreed that she is open to plot hooks. Only one other PC has had a romantic interaction, but he does it moreso for the romance than the sexual encounters. I tend to shy away from the encounters myself, since I can sometimes get uncomfortable with them.

I have played homosexual and bisexual characters before, one in a very tongue in cheek exalted game who wasn't bisexual at the start of the game, but became bisexual due to some very creative social charms (Most of the humor here was from the sheer hilarity of such a change being possible with the charm, and from the fact that I had the character using the voice of Burt Lahr, the actor whom the voice of Snagglepuss was modeled after), a chaotic evil bugbear who was homosexual and self-loathing (He took it out on others mostly, as not to leave behind any evidence), and a sorcerer-knight spellsword who was bisexual, though he had more on his mind than sexual encounters for the entire game, and to this day none of the other players know he was. A character I have planned for a future exalted game is going to be homosexual, being a lunar with the lizard totem and a fair amount of mutation. That character is supposed to be cold, calculating and vicious, being the protector of a group of beastmen who saved his life.

I don't play a lot of female characters aside from when I DM, but I can admit some prejudice against males playing female lesbian characters, as I haven't seen any one of my players do a very good job of being convincing or realistic in such a role. I don't think I'd be very good at it myself. I'd have to do a study of lesbians (And THAT can be taken 16 different ways...) to pull off a convincing one that didn't feel stereotypical.

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Wanda V'orcus wrote:
(And then again, in the Forgotten Realms we had the nation of Thay, led by the lich Szass Tam, who seemed to me to be the Faerunian equivalent of Fu Manchu, leading his nation of Yellow Peril against the nations of the West...)

FYI, Thay was actually settled by people who left Mulhorand, who are real-Earth ancient Egyptians transported to Faerun via portals. So Thayans are actually Arabs, not Asians.

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Matthew Morris wrote:
joela wrote:

Thoughts? On the one hand, I agree: it's a double-standard. On the other hand, I know, being a GM myself, there are gaming situations I find highly uncomfortable at times that players seem to enjoy (e.g., monsters playing, well, monsters).

My thoughts? Yes it's a double standard. Nothing's wrong with that. "Life's tough, get a helmet."

He's being open and honest about what he can do and can't. We don't harm children in our local game, because of player history. I checked with one player when he was behind the screen that he'd not wig out if my female character flirts with his NPCs (guy generates false positives on 'gaydar' and doesn't like being hit on). We often 'beat on the exes' around the table, but not when the kids are playing, etc.

Most groups make exceptions of story content for the players personal histories/tastes. Why shouldn't the GM get the same break?

GMs absolutely should. Everyone has a personal squick factor and will drop the "fade to black" curtain faster for those things that squick them than those things that don't.

It should also be noted that there are some players and GMs who mess with the in and out of character lines and dropping the curtain down can put a stop to that.

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