Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
|
So, my oldest son is turning 7 next week, and we mentioned to him that he is probably old enough (and reads way above his 1st grade level) to start learning and playing D&D.
I've seen the D&D Basic Set for sale, but I hear mixed reviews on it, and never really anything about whether it's a good beginning for say...a 7 yr old. And then there's the issue of whether I teach him 3.5, or wait to start fresh with 4E (since this will be HIS start in D&D, not mine). We also thought about just playing the Descent board game at first, and then introduce D&D when he got the concept of RPGing down.
Has anyone else gone through this? How did you introduce the game to your kids? What would you suggest?
And let's not get into the typical 4E vs 3.5 flame war on yet another thread....please?
I still have my third edition D&D Basic Set (the one with the Erol Otis covers) that I plan on using with my kids in a couple of years.
Oh and you had better believe that Keep on the Boarderlands will be the first adventure I run (ok, that or the Lost City).
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
I introduced him to Car Wars first and built up the idea of having a running character. We tried D20 Modern but it didn't capture his imagination. Then we went to 3.5. He loved it.
This is stuff that works for me:
-- I use a lot of visual support.
-- Lots of miniatures and battle grids and pictures.
-- The first encounter is usually a roleplaying encounter in which he manages to find, buy, or borrow a map to the dungeon. This simplifies things.
-- We share the math. He gradually takes on more responsibility.
-- Repetition doesn't hurt.
-- He hasn't read the great literature. 'A ring of invisibility that can control your mind! What a novel idea!!' Someday he'll realize I'm not a creative genius and I gave away the endings to a lot of wonderful fantasy work but oh well.
-- Good NPCs don't die ... they retire and buy a farm somewhere after being severely wounded.
-- He takes turns being DM.
|
|
I introduced him to Car Wars first and built up the idea of having a running character. We tried D20 Modern but it didn't capture his imagination. Then we went to 3.5. He loved it.
This is stuff that works for me:
-- I use a lot of visual support.
-- Lots of miniatures and battle grids and pictures.
-- The first encounter is usually a roleplaying encounter in which he manages to find, buy, or borrow a map to the dungeon. This simplifies things.
-- We share the math. He gradually takes on more responsibility.
-- Repetition doesn't hurt.
-- He hasn't read the great literature. 'A ring of invisibility that can control your mind! What a novel idea!!' Someday he'll realize I'm not a creative genius and I gave away the endings to a lot of wonderful fantasy work but oh well.
-- Good NPCs don't die ... they retire and buy a farm somewhere after being severely wounded.
-- He takes turns being DM.
Some of my friends have kids who are just about that age where they have been wondering how to break them into the game. I'd love to hear more feedback for my own (eventual) sake as well...
|
Same here... I have a seven year old that is a wiz at math. I have been holding off more because I was unsure on how to bring it to him. I was nine when my brother asked me to join his friends. I had a great time but it was a few years before I truly understood what I was doing.
Any suggestions would be awesome
I've taught my nephew who is 6 and then also my mother-in-law who is 57 how to play.
I actually started out by asking them what they liked about fantasy. Since this thread is about children I'll tell you about my nephew who loves Balrogs. Granted I think he just likes to say the word more than anything but it was a start. I asked him who his favorite hero was and he said Aragorn. So I knew I was working with a Ranger wanting to kill a Demon.
What I then began doing was just a simple walk through, "If this happens what would you do? An orc jumps out how do you react?" Usually he is straight forward and attacks nearly everything on sight. I then started using a coin and did a heads or tails you hit.
Once these basics were learned we then began doing a little more rules introduced the d20 which he began admitting this was the greatest game ever, "You can tell because these dice are so neat!"
With the dice I did set numbers for AC on him and the enemy telling him he need to roll a certain number. After he got the hang of that we began getting stats and so on and so forth.
He now is totally addicted and plays better than most people I've seen at the FLGS. He is starting to turn into a rules lawyer as well and his teacher are amazed with his math skills and reading abilities and he really throws them for a loop when he says he learned it from Dungeons and Dragons.
I have a 5 year old. I am starting now. I got her a Dragon stuffed animal for christmas (thank you Dragonology), and am getting her a bunch of faeries, wizards, knights in armor and similar for her birthday. I even let her pick out the ones she likes. When she's old enough to start RPGs, I plan on playing Faery's Tale with her.
Build on your kids' interests. If they like LotR, make the game resemble that. If they like Harry Potter (and if you've read the books enough to know the setting), run a game in old England and say that it was before the witches and wizards went into hiding so muggles know of witches and wizards too. Make it start off as 1st year students and make their head master Godric Griffendor, Salasar Slitherin, and the other original 2.
Remember, its the setting that grabs them, just like the setting grabs us, not the system.
I just picked up today the RPG A Faery's Tale. I haven't had a chance to fully read it yet but I think it would be an excellent intro to role playing games. I believe it's designed for 6 years and up, and I plan on introducing it to a 5 year old girl and a 4 year old girl. You can get the PDF of the deluxe edition for 10 bucks at firefly games.
As for the old basic D & D, I think it's also a great intro to D & D. The system is simple and the books do a good job of teaching the ropes. It's also easy to swap out the combat and save systems with the 3.5 systems.
I would also recommend the old choose your own adventure books - this is what hooked me and my friends on the idea of role playing back in the day.
I just picked up today the RPG A Faery's Tale. I haven't had a chance to fully read it yet but I think it would be an excellent intro to role playing games.
Boys might be a little harder to get into this game then girls, but there's a sprite race of faeries that has a boy on it (and they talk about how they ride frogs and bumble bees and carry swords). But you also might want to show them scenes from the Never Ending Story where the tinkerer guy and his wife helps make Atraeu better before he went between the golden sphinx (or whatever it was). They ahve a similar flavor to the Brownies.
Girls will gravitate towards the pixies (thanks to tinkerbell, mostly) and they'll just want to hit stuff with their wand all the time, but showing them how to think their way through stuff is a great way to help them get started down the "right" path.
And the artwork is excellent for kids.
You can get the PDF of the deluxe edition for 10 bucks at firefly games.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
My 2 and 1/2 year old daughter's first attempt at D&D:
Her: It is dinosaur?
Me: No, it's a dragon.
Her: Can I can hit dinosaur?
Me: It's a copper dragon honey. He's a good guy.
Her: I dice (takes d20 and pops it in her mouth, takes it out and throws it across the room rolling a 20).
Her: I hit dinosaur?
Me: Yes, you hit the dragon. You want to roll to confirm the crit and then roll for damage?
Her: I can go castle?
I tell ya. I really gotta wait till she gets older....
I would avoid starting a child on 3E right away. My sons are 8 and 10, and we're going to start with the old classic basic set. I've still got my red set (and the rest) from when I was 7, and the hardcover book. You can get those nice and cheaply, esp PDF form, and they work great. The DnD new release basic box isn't bad, I bought it and used some of it too. Once they get to where it's second nature, you could get them into 3rd. Just my opinion, of course...
Toon is another option. Role play any looney toons-esque cartoon with this simple system. $15 pdf or on ebay.
|
Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
|
My sons are 8 and 10, and we're going to start with the old classic basic set. I've still got my red set (and the rest) from when I was 7, and the hardcover book.
I have my original Basic red box too, as well as the Expert Rules, and Companion box set. I mentioned to my wife of teaching THAC0 to my son before d20, and she nixed that. I had to agree, as it took me a year to fully purge the idea of THAC0 when I started 3rd Ed.
Toon. HA! I still have that, too! And the TMNT RPG! And the original boxset of Gamma World! I was hoping that this 3rd Ed. Basic Set would be a lot like my red box set, though. Sounds like it is not.
In a follow-up question: One of the posters above mentioned modules he just HAD to run for his kids. Any more suggestions for modules that are fun, simple, and easy for kids to play in? Would I do well to look at Goodman Games, GM Gems, or others?
I introduced my daughter to Toon when she was about 3 with some success. She played Porky Pig. It taught her the concept of rolling dice = success or failure as well as basic roleplaying skills. At age 7 we moved on to late term 2nd edition which she mastered well and then started up with 3.0 & 3.5 as they came out.
She wanted to DM early so we bought the basic set, but she was bored with it and around the age of 9 or so she couldn't keep her attention on the game or take care of it yet without misplacing pieces, that sort of thing. So the early DM thing with peers didn't catch on until she was about 13 yrs. old.
Essentially, since she was 7 years old she has played D&D. It took her awhile to learn that bad things happen to characters and you need to deal with it; also that death isn't necessarily final.
Now she is a grade A player, both in rules and roleplaying and Dm's for her friends and a school group. She is now 15.
This is funny because my mother taught my brother and I to play D&D in 1978--I was 8 years old.
|
|
I went ahead and created a very simple 3.5 excel charater sheet for my kids. It only contains the most important skills, HP, AC, a weapon, shield and armor area and stats. It takes up about 1/2 page. I think this will me a low enough level of rules that my son (and possibly my daughter who is 9) will be able to understand and have fun. I will let everyone know how it turns out.
I think we may start with D0... Any other suggestions for a starting adventure? My son really isn't into the fairy stuff so I am reluctant in purchasing the above suggestion.
|
I think we may start with D0... Any other suggestions for a starting adventure? My son really isn't into the fairy stuff so I am reluctant in purchasing the above suggestion.
I would run something against insects. Perhaps giant spiders or other vermin the child can clearly see in his mind. Kids also tend to be a bit afraid of these things, so giving them the chance to fight them and win is an emotional victory while adding real suspense that they will meet a bug as big as they are. I would set up a very simple scenario, perhaps with a farmer being carried off by spiders and taken to their cave where he will likely hang for a few days (LotR style) before they eat him. You child's character will then venture off to save the farmer before it is too late. Maybe there is even a rumor that the big spiders are under the control of a "queen", an intelligent magical spider that has further designs on their small village...
I have four boys (ages 13 - 5) and all of them were introduced with something like this and it really caught their imagination.
|
|
When I was first teaching my kids to play (they were both around 10) I first started out with the full DnD ruleset. The huge book was intimidating for them though, there wasn't a great deal of interest in learning all the minutia. "This is like a school book".
So we punted that and went with a one page character sheet, basic stats, a few basic skills, a much shortened spell list. I also went with a version of a "spell pool" so they could cast spontaneously.
I used what was essentially a modified version of what are now the Microlite20 rules. (Google Microlite20 to find it). I highly recommend it for teaching the basics to kids or spouses.
Once we broke things down to the basic components, things went much smoother and the role-playing took off. We had quite alot of fun.
Now that they're older (18 & 22) they both play the full version of DnD once in awhile, but my daughter (the "artist") moved onto CCG (magic cards have great art you know - I had a great set of alpha/beta/originals at one point. sigh.) and my son spends most of his time in MMO's (when he should be in class at the University of Washington - imagine logging into an MMO to track down your son and ask "why aren't you in your CS class?").
-Pete
|
|
I would run something against insects. Perhaps giant spiders or other vermin the child can clearly see in his mind. Kids also tend to be a bit afraid of these things, so giving them the chance to fight them and win is an emotional victory while adding real suspense that they will meet a bug as big as they are.
This is an excellent idea, btw. I found with my miniatures my wife can look at the beholder, the undead, the dragons, any number of very deadly creatures. But she won't touch the spiders. The small spiders look too real and the big ones look like, well, big spiders. Definitely start with big spiders, snakes, and rats. Intelligent versions let you do your best voices as well.
"Ssssssooooo... foolissssh humansssss.... sssssscrumptioussssssss..."
|
|
Okay, I have checked out the Microlite20 rule set and LOVE it. This is perfect for my kids. Quick conversion of NPCs and quick creation also... Thanks for the heads up.
Wow! Me too! I will be making this into lil' PHBs for my kids and start teaching my oldest soon(she's almost 5, but smarter than some adults).
Thanks for the info and the referral to this system.AWESOME!!!!
Here is a link to what I found when I searched for Microlite20-
Microlite20, all the game files are in the download section.
HOOK MOUNTAIN MASSACRE! HOOK MOUNTAIN MASSACRE!
Wonderful advice, folks, about the "Faery's Tale" RPG. My 6 year-old daughter will love to play it, based on how well she likes playing "Elfa," her woodland elf from AD&D 1st Ed. Additionally, things like the GameMastery Item Cards would go well to the visual stimulation of the game. I have not yet ordered "Faery's Tale," but would those typical item cards fit into the fantasy setting, or not? I look forward to doing some more reading, because I can see how this could become a family game night, and a great way to host a "Fairy" party with her friends (and like-minded parents) without subjecting the kids to movies and the typical munchkin party themes.
Again, thanks for great suggestions, and good reviews.
While I have yet to see if my 8-year-old would like to play D&D (we used to play a dice "game" when she was little that consisted of rolling all my dice on the carpet...ah, the simpler times) we have had many "adventures" with the D&D Electronic Board Game. It's fun to play and very visual/aural. Good luck gaming with your child, it sounds fun (and may be something I'll do around our house someday.)
- Chris Shadowens
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
|
HOOK MOUNTAIN MASSACRE! HOOK MOUNTAIN MASSACRE!
Nicholas Logue is for adults only. :-)
I get a little annoyed at those who trash his adventures and talk about protecting the 'young people in the game'. There are some adventures that aren't for kids.
My son just finished watching 'Magi-Nation'. I think I might steal from there for my next campaign for him. He loves the idea of summoning dream creatures that do combat with each other, arenas in which your dream creatures can compete in tournaments, quests to gather 'dream stones' that will make your creatures more powerful and protect you from the BBEG. I'm thinking all this could be done with some kind of sorceror build.
Having recently purchased the game, I wondered how my daughter would take to playing "Faery's Tale." I wondered if the rules system would be too much for younger children, especially combat. Combat?! I could hear my wife's voice thumping me if combat became a primary reason to play, considering the very young gaming group. Surprisingly, the children (my daughter and her friends) all had a smashing good time, (with very little focus on combat), and talked about the game still. The game really does live up to its image as a family gaming system, and reminds me of the initial feelings I had when starting to role-play...looking for the big magic thing, hiding and sneaking and solving riddles, and getting that big reward at the end. All good stuff. Check it out if you have wee-ones wanting to know how you spend those Saturday evenings at gaming groups...
My daughter is 7. She's been playing 3 years now. She doesn't read well enough to read the rulebooks, but she *remembers* what others read to her. She's been an integral part of our group and most likely always will be. Not everyone likes playing with her in the group all the time, but imo, she frequently does a better job of playing and logically working through things than her 14yo brother. And they are BOTH far more fun to play with than their oldest sis, who is 21. Ah, well.
We started her early, because she *had* two older siblings at home and had already developed a mental grasp on the difference between real and pretend and enjoyed pretending running around being movie characters.
We just wish she could read better so she could make her own durn characters.....
ETA - she was the one who figured out to throw alchem fire at one of the Kobolds w/ Phalanx Fighting in order to break their formation and who remembered the AC5 to throw things at a given square of ground.
My daughter is 6, and this summer she saw me at my desk with dice, minis, a map, etc. She's into fairys and such, so I drew up a quick stat sheet (AC, HP, abilities), she wanted to be an 'elf wizard with a sword'. So I let her pick a few spells from levels 1-3, explained that she could only use them 1/day, and a few nifty magic items (ring of invisibility, wand of healing). I just let her indulge, and that got her hooked. Rules were secondary.
I DMPC'd a fighter and we went out (on a battlemap from a Dungeon mag) and rescued an old woman's lost dog from an ogre in a cave. I let her do 1 thing per round, we 'knocked the ogre out' and returned the dog to the old woman. All in less than an hour.
We've played a few times since. I think I managed to plant a seed.
I like what the OP mentioned- sounds like a great way to get a kid into the game.