Four issues into the new Pathfinder series seems like a good time to make a first thorough evaluation. What do you think of Pathfinder so far? Does it meet your expectations?
My general impression of Pathfinder is definitely positive. The last years of Dungeon had set a very high standard to which the new series had to live up, and I think Pathfinder delivers!
Let’s start off with the cover art. It is truly excellent. The artwork is top quality, the background drawings are inspiring and invite you to read, the iconics are intriguing. It is a very exciting prospect that we’ll be able to buy them as minis in the near future.
The interior art seems to vary more, both in style and in quality. Although it is never bad, it ranges between mediocre and fine. The maps on the other hand are great, displaying well thought out and well rendered settings.
The writing is compelling, definitely one of the strong points of Pathfinder. It is always a pleasure to read the adventures. Still the language has a possible downside. The vocabulary used in Pathfinder is of a certain standard and sometimes quite difficult. This limits the number of potential non-native speaker customers to a rather small group, which might be considered a pity. But then again, the quality of the writing makes reading pathfinder somewhat of a literary experience.
The strongest point of Pathfinder, in my opinion, is the mood. Paizo has gone out of its way to make every adventure ooze with atmosphere. It’s this effort that lifts good adventures to an even higher level. Of course, this blade cuts both ways. The mood in Rise of the Runelords leans heavily on the gothic. The element of horror is strongly present in this adventure path, and as other threads on these boards have shown, it puts off some readers. Strangely enough, I largely agree with them, feeling that Rise of the Runelords is too much horror for my taste. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy a good horror movie once in a while, but at the gaming table I tend more towards the classic heroic campaign with a compelling and intriguing storyline than towards the horrific. That’s why I’m really looking forward to the next AP, which will be right up my alley. I hope Paizo can breathe the same amount of atmosphere into this adventure.
The second half of each Pathfinder module exists of extra material. This section generally pleases me less than the first half. Overall I feel that everything that is published in this section should be of direct use to the DM at the table. That doesn’t mean the DM has to use it all, but everything should be usable and should provide an added value.
Backdrops on locales certainly fit this description, but until now only the backdrop on Sandpoint is to my liking. Obviously Magnimar and Varisia require a lot more pages, so what we get is too general, too vague and fails to meet the need.
The descriptions of the stone giants, dragons or Desna are all interesting reads as such, but take up too many pages that could have been used better. A two page description of Desna would have sufficed for a decent background – the same goes for the stone giants. The article on dragons, while wonderfully well written and inspiring, does not add to this adventure path. It would have fitted better in J2 Guardians of Dragonfall, for which it seems to be a long advertisement.
Then there are the Pathfinder journals. Although I probably enjoy reading these the most of the module, I think they should have been written on places the PCs actually visit in the adventure. I can imagine a player choosing to be a pathfinder and consulting a pathfinder library on the places he has to go to. Ready-made pathfinder journal hand-outs on Fort Rannick or Skull’s Crossing would have been more useful to a DM and his players, and thus preferable.
When comparing my original expectations of the extra material section to reality, my biggest disappointment is that there aren’t more seeds of adventure. I had thought and hoped that the second half of the book would provide more adventure ideas that a DM could use and develop to create a broader sense of Varisia and its people. The article ‘Keeping the Keep’ actually gives some nice suggestions on a bit of side-trekking. I had hoped to find similar suggestions for Sandpoint or Magnimar for example.
So overall I’m very happy with Pathfinder. Although I’m probably never going to run this particular AP, I’m still on board for the series. I’m hoping to find the same quality and devotion in the next campaign, which will be more up my alley storywise. As for the extra material section, I would like to plead for a clear guideline: write articles on things a DM can take to his table.
Now tell me what you think.
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It's all good so far.
Burnt Offerings and Skinsaw Murders are excellent adventures, the next two are good but not quite as compelling.
The new monsters have all been top-notch.
The Pathfinder Journal is a good read (could have done without the explanation in PF1 and gone straight into the journal, but it's all good).
The Desna article was excellent.
The setting content has got me really excited about the forthcoming campaign setting.
So all in all a big thumbs up, the only fly in the ointment is the cards.
I also like that Gamemastery is part of the same world.
Burnt Offerings and the Skinsaw Murders were really good. Hook Mountain was okay and I wasn't a huge fan of Fortress of the Stone Giants.
i thought it was all rubbish.
sorry.
and of course i'm joking.
I love Pathfinder and all the GameMastery modules and needless to say i'm going to buy all the Chronicles stuff as well!!!
Four issues into the new Pathfinder series seems like a good time to make a first thorough evaluation. What do you think of Pathfinder so far? Does it meet your expectations?
My feelings are generally positive; however, it did not meet my expectations when it came out (it does now, now that I understand what they're doing with it; however, my expectations are now a whole lot lower).
I was hoping for APs just like in Dungeon, and I didn't get them. Now that I better understand their design goals, I like them enough for what they are.
The formatting and maps and the like, though, have blown away my expectations. Wow - they're really really good looking.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Burnt Offerings and the Skinsaw Murders were really good. Hook Mountain was okay and I wasn't a huge fan of Fortress of the Stone Giants.
This is about where I am too. I loved the first two modules. Hook Mountain had a solid start but felt thin and chopy on the backside. It also suffers from too much of a good thing - I love the gory descriptions, but I got a little fatigued with them as I went on. I could've used less words spent on gore and more words spent on the final third of the module.
I'm not grocking FoSG, but I can't put my finger on why.
The back end is good stuff, though I could really live without the Pathfinder Chronicles. I was really hoping that section would be geared to the players ala the old Dragon articles (Worm Food and Savage Tidings) rather than fiction.
But, these are minor reservations. Pathfinder is a solid product and I am happy to be a subscriber.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I really enjoyed PF 1 and 2, and liked a few "choice cuts" out of Hook Mountain. In all, I think Hook Mountain just got edited down too much, and it hurt what might have been a truly great adventure. Still good, but it gets choppy towards the second half.
As for PF4, I think Wolfgang did as much as he could have with the task he was assigned. It's a solid nod to Against the Giants, with some shiny new goodness sprinkled in, and I like how Paizo tipped their hat to one of the classics. Not being a huge fan of the basic premise though, I was pleasantly surprised by a lot of what was done in PF4. I knew what was coming and I still ended up liking it more than I thought I would.
I like the Pathfinder journals and city guides in the back - it's an interesting way to learn about the world at large, so keep 'em coming.
I like most of the bestiary entries, though some fall a little flat and there is usually one that feels kind of like "ok, we need X monsters for the bestiary and we're one short, so somebody come up with another one quick." Might just be me. Still, 85% of the bestiary is usually pretty sweet.
So far so good though. The only thing I would request (and it means something else would have to be cut) would be a Sidetrek adventure included in each issue. Maybe a cap of 4,000 to 5,000 words, that explores either A) a previously unknown/unexplored (and small) region of the world, or B) expands on something from the main Pathfinder story (for example, in PF1, a side trek involving the Scarnettis or the Burning Mills).
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So far I am impressed with Pathfinder as a whole. The writing, maps, artwork, setting, atmosphere, it is all top notch. Probably the only thing I don't like about it is the Pathfinder Journal. These pages could better be used for something that benefits the adventure path, such as additional articles supporting the AP, or mini side treks.
I just think the PJ would be better suited as a online article that people could peruse whenever they wanted to read a good story, and it is a great story (I'm not bashing the quality of the PJ.)
Overall I am happy to be a subscriber, and will stay a subscriber as long as Paizo keeps beating the pants off of WoTC when it comes to quality products.
Keep up the good work guys, and we'll have a Happy new year.
Pathfinder has re-invigorated my interest in D&D, pretty much. I love the presentation and design of each issue. The revised stat bloc layout seems so perfect - adding in tactics and morale just works (so well, I've used the template to do the stat blocs for the Shackled City campaign I started).
The art is perfect - it feels more D&D and less steam-punk than the Ebberon look. I like that the iconics are cluttered with gear, but retain a distinct look. The use of art in the issues is also excellent, creating a distinct mood. I want to clip out the pictures to use as handouts for the players.
The actual adventures themselves are, I think, excellent. They present interesting challenges for the PCs and I'm thankful for the more mature material. They don't feel like "just another dungeon".
The background articles and monster designs are entertaining to read, and really expand upon what looks to be a solid campaign setting, as well.
Actually, the other thing Pathfinder has done is send me to the back issue bin at the local gamestore to pick up old issues of Dungeon and Dragon magazine, as well. Paizo's done some good work.
I'm really enjoying Pathfinder, and I love the detail that's gone into everything. Burnt Offerings is a huge amount of fun for my group, and I think Fortress of the Stone Giants is going to be second, particularly with the potential for my (giantkin) PCs to interact with all the groups stationed outside the fortress. I love that they're all given backgrounds and motivations.
I'm planning to stick with Pathfinder for the long haul, and I'm starting to reorganize my gaming schedule so that I can run even more of it.
I'm quite pleased with it. I too will keep subscribing, as I am impressed with how Paizo has presented everything so far.
I never expected going in that each part of the paths would keep getting better, as so many people with varied tastes are contributing. Yet it is this variety that makes it so good in my eyes.
Keep up the good work!!
Guilty admission: I haven't read Pathfinder 1-4 yet. I'm happily enjoying the Gamemastery modules - which are certainly an excellent batch of adventures.
As for Pathfinder, I'm sorry to admit that the tiny font and some of the rough art early on diminished my interest in reading these. Also, the material may be just a little too grim for me. At this point, I'm going to wait a couple months and read 1-6 as a block.
Still, I look forward to the second Pathfinder series - it sounds very promising. But will the font be fixed in Pathfinder 7?
The back end is good stuff, though I could really live without the Pathfinder Chronicles. I was really hoping that section would be geared to the players ala the old Dragon articles (Worm Food and Savage Tidings) rather than fiction.
I'm going to have to quickly ditto this.
For me, I consider that part to be grossly misused (even wasted) space, AFAIC.
Creative Director
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But will the font be fixed in Pathfinder 7?
Yes.
Starting in Pathfinder 7, we'll be switching to the same font we use in the GameMastery adventures. We'll be running the font a little bit smaller in Pathfinder, but not much—it's a LOT more readable than the font we're using now, and it has lots of other advantages over the font we're using now as well (such as having the numeral "1" not look weirdly spaced out, or uppercase J looking right, or actually having a bold italic option, etc.).
The good news to those concerned about loss of content is that the wordcount per page won't really be changing at all. The new font is a LOT more readable without losing any content space.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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The back end is good stuff, though I could really live without the Pathfinder Chronicles. I was really hoping that section would be geared to the players ala the old Dragon articles (Worm Food and Savage Tidings) rather than fiction.I'm going to have to quickly ditto this.
For me, I consider that part to be grossly misused (even wasted) space, AFAIC.
I actually really like the Pathfinder Chronicles, but if they were published separately, as I am a Chronicles subscriber, I would not complain if they were removed from the AP books (since I would get them anyway).
I'm really enjoying Pathfinder so far. The setting is shaping up awesome, the art is great (discounting some of the art in PF #1 - but we've been there), and the writing is stellar. I'd like to address a few points that have already been mentioned above:
Burnt Offerings and the Skinsaw Murders were really good. Hook Mountain was okay and I wasn't a huge fan of Fortress of the Stone Giants.
I have to say I totally agree with this assessment. My 'problem' with PF4 is not that I'd consider it a 'bad' module. It's a little fight-heavy, but it's clear to me that not every PF issue will appeal to the same playing styles. However, my feeling is that while it may have been a nod to Agains the Giants, and a good one at that, it was out of place in the RotRL storyline and felt 'forced' into the gap between Hook Mountain and Sins of the Saviors; something of an anachronism.
The back end is good stuff, though I could really live without the Pathfinder Chronicles. I was really hoping that section would be geared to the players ala the old Dragon articles (Worm Food and Savage Tidings) rather than fiction.
Here's a vote for keeping the PF Chronicles. They are the part of each issue that really makes the setting come alive. Please don't ditch them for crunch - there's enough of that as it is.
What I'd love to see more of:
Online supplements with maps and pictures (This has already been covered many times, I think ... just a reminder that your customers would like to see them, as soon as the workload has lessened somewhat :); Faiths articles; descriptions of organizations within Golarion (monastic, hellknight, or otherwise).
What could be ditched IMO:
Sometimes I felt that there were monsters in PF that had been included just for the sake of including them. Prime example: the redcap from PF#4. It's not really doing anything in the adventure; it's not really fitting the giant theme, and still it's in there and eating up space (rather hungrily). You might consider dropping one or two monsters each issue, and adding the gained free space to other articles. But YMMV.
All in all, let me just restate that I am extremely happy with the direction Paizo is taking their products in. Keep up the good work, folks!
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Sorry to be the dissenting opinion.
I was really excited when PF1 came out, but you lost me pretty quick after that. (Even PF1 had some problems, but I attributed that to "issue one blues".)
It just felt that the line was going in a direction that wasn't for me.
Well written, good art, just not what I'm looking for.
Maybe I'll take a look at the next AP at one of the local hobby shops and see if it's as shiny and new as promised. Who knows?
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Sorry to be the dissenting opinion.
I was really excited when PF1 came out, but you lost me pretty quick after that. (Even PF1 had some problems, but I attributed that to "issue one blues".)
It just felt that the line was going in a direction that wasn't for me.
Well written, good art, just not what I'm looking for.
Maybe I'll take a look at the next AP at one of the local hobby shops and see if it's as shiny and new as promised. Who knows?
Hey, not everybody can like the same stuff - the world would be seriously boring if we did...
but you should throw Paizo some constructive feedback; they've responded really well to it so far and some good would probably come of it, even if it weren't enough to get you buying Pathfinder.
Loving it! Although I have to admit that #4 was "just" a decent adventure IMO (rather than amazing like #1 and #2 especially), I find myself watching my mailbox like a hawk every month. I really like that Paizo addresses the WHYs behind the villains - the backstories, the motivations, the aspirations, etc. - rather than just placing one baddie after another for the players to knock down. That, along with the more serious/mature nature of their villainous schemes, really adds a level of depth - and realism (in my eyes) - to the overall adventure.
The good news to those concerned about loss of content is that the wordcount per page won't really be changing at all. The new font is a LOT more readable without losing any content space.
Woohoo!
The back end is good stuff, though I could really live without the Pathfinder Chronicles. I was really hoping that section would be geared to the players ala the old Dragon articles (Worm Food and Savage Tidings) rather than fiction.I'm going to have to quickly ditto this.
For me, I consider that part to be grossly misused (even wasted) space, AFAIC.
I don't mind the Chronicles, but I would like to see something a little more crunchy that I can give to my players. (Or, in order to benefit from this fluff, they could become Pathfinders?!?)
Hmm, perhaps when 4E has arrived and Paizo finds themselves modding it we will see more character options.
All in all, though, I am satisfied with the first AP but I'm looking forward to less hack and slash in the second.
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My family has so far finished #1 and it has recieved positive reviews from all involved.
I am interested to see whether the next three hold up as well game wise. I suspect they will.
For the most part I have really enjoyed the extra material, though I would have liked a little more detail, world wise, on some of the various locales (I agree with others that Magnimar probably deserved a bigger write-up). I would also like to see the faith sections come out a little faster and perhaps cut back on some of the extra monsters. I like new monsters but two or three an issue would be fine, unless they are actually used in the adventure.
I also concur that a few smaller sidetrek style adventures would be nice upon occassion.
As for the Pathfinder's journal, I enjoy the glimpse of Varisian they are offering but I do find the differing styles of the differing authors to be somewhat offputting. It is hard for one author to completely capture the flavor of another and when the subject is a single individual's journal as recorded from story to story, the difference in the authors' voices breaks my mood a little when I read them.
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I'm playing in it right now on pbp and having a great time. I'm only in the first adventure, but I've bought all four of them.
I guess this is a good place for it--if you love it, if you hate it, if you woulda wanted this or that done better better, click on the ish in the product section and slap you a little review up there.
Leave your mark for posterity, for the gamers yet to come, for the gamers that haven't yet found the path. Yeah, YOU are the Pathfinder.
Write a review for Pathfinder #1.
Dang, there ain't but like 26 of them.
Generally speaking I really appreciate the effort shown thus far. The concept, quality and creativity are all high, and I hope they continue to stay that way. If you were to continue with this high standard without any significant change I would be happy.
Stuff I would like to see more of:
- I like all of the extra stuff, but as has been mentioned I would like to see -all- of this material to have a high potential for use in the course of the AP. I enjoy the Pathfinder Chronicles as it does give a feel for the world, which is important, but again I think you can do this "and" make all of it more directly useful for the campaign.
For example, the Kaer Maga story, while really cool, does not offer a high chance of use for this particular campaign. Though now that I think about it, the PCs may travel through Kaer Maga on the way to Xin Shalast, so this may be where this particular chronicle can be utilized.
- I like the idea of Side Treks that showcase aspects of the world. Given that we have a fresh new world, I would like to see more descriptions/encounters/scenarios that showcase various aspects of the world.
- More physical descriptions of NPCs, buildings, and landscapes. If they are present in the adventure then they should have a description, imo.
- I would like to see blogs develop various specific elements of the world. Like the time/calendar post. For example, typical sayings of priests of a particular deity, or the clothing fashions of Magnimarians, etc, etc.
- Downloadable handouts, duplicate maps without DM markings.
Cheers!
E
I also groan (as do my players) on the overuse of particular monsters. It may be realistic in the module, but its boring to face the same thing over and over.
I strongly disagree with this comment. I think it is entirely reasonable and fun for a goblin outpost to be full of nothing more than goblins, which the characters can then prepare for. I always think back to the AoW adventure (I forget the title now) in which the PCs were invading a nest of lizardfolk, got all ready for the lizardfolk, and then encountered a nest of harpies in the first room. My players all basically said, "What the ...?" I have enjoyed the consistency of the encounters, even though there is not much variety in the goblin outpost or the giant stronghold, as there should not be. In fact, the areas that I find to be the weakest in PF #4 are those in which seemingly random monsters are coexisting in harmony, simply for the sake of variety (redcaps? dragons? hounds of tindalos? why?).
I have to echo the previous posts in many ways. It's lucky that the first PF was so good. I had a rollover subscription and was so impressed by the first 2 adventures that I extended the subscription, even though I have more than enough Dungeon adventures to keep my gaming group happy for years. If they had been the of the same quality as PFs 3 and 4, I would not have subscribed. The issues with Hook Mountain and editing have been addressed elsewhere, but PF #4 really disappointed me. Perhaps the bar was simply set too high by the first couple adventures and it was unrealistic to hope that such a high level of quality could be maintained, but I am reminded of "Three Faces of Evil" in AoW, definitely the worst adventure in that path.
I have enjoyed the Pathfinder Journals for fluff and get the feeling that at least some of the material is intended to preview material that will be useful in the next adventure path (otyughs in the sewers!). Further, I have given the articles to my players to read to get a feel for the setting, and they have responded with some truly impressive character backgrounds based on the readings. That has been worth the pages, by itself.
I am hoping that the remaining adventures in the path will return to the quality of the first two and that the story will end strong.
O
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The back end is good stuff, though I could really live without the Pathfinder Chronicles.
This was my initial reaction ... fiction, bleh ... before I actually stopped to read one (Pathfinder #2) which described wonderfully the journey from Magnimar to Turtleback Ferry via Wartle and Whistledown, which I'll now be using as the basis for flavour and encounters between Pathfinder#2 Skinsaw Murders and Pathfinder#3 Hook Mountain Massacre (the adventure kind of left it up to you to find your own way there).
This was an excellent chapter of Pathfinder Chronicles, with enough detail and flavour to engage me and yet enough freedom to develop it as I will - exactly what I needed! It would be great if future installments of Pathfinder Chronicles could remain engaging fiction, but also serve a practical game purpose, as this one clearly did.
Cheers!
In general I feel like most of you, but I wanted to throw my support behind the Pathfinder Chronicles. I'm really digging them, and they help flesh out the world for me. Don't loose those!
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talking of the fiction - in PF1 the black and white-ness killed me reading it and really disheartened me to the series. then when I wanted to read something, but didn't feel like hitting up skinsaw yet I read the fictions in #2 and it made me fall in love with the character. The interesting facts about the world such as the troll soothsayer in PF3 and the theives in the most recent have kept me going on the setting more then anything else. I plan to have the players find Kline's journal pages in one of the rooms they search, and have him show up at the end of the path somewhere if they end up looking for more pages (if they do then they will find the month's journal entries in various places around the adventures, where he left them for the pathfinders to collect and/or pass in)
#1 ran well for us and hooked us on the game world. #2 read really, really well--of all the modules I've ever read, it really grabbed me and said "You have to run this". I ended up having to rewrite it in major ways, though, because it was too much horror and hopelessness too fast for this PC group. (And it didn't work for us that the clues all point to Vorel as the real evil, but the adventure focus is on defeating Aldern.) I still like it, though it was much more work than I'd anticipated.
#3 suffered from the cuts, as others have said. I am now gearing up to run #4. I have to say I'm not looking forward to it at all, because the whole nostalgia theme does absolutely nothing for me. I'm a long-term player, I remember "Against the Giants", but not with love. But when I read the module, there were enough interesting occult bits and character details to persuade me that it's worth trying.
(Didn't Paizo already do the nostalgia trip adequately in Age of Worms? I ran that through about module 10 just before Pathfinder, and I was *so* not looking for more nostalgia. I didn't think the good old days were that good; I'd rather see something modern.)
As for the support material, the monsters have been okay (though I used the Totenmaskes in a side adventure after #3 and have a lot of issues with their design). I bounced off the first Pathfinder Journal entry bigtime and have only read the one in #3, which was okay but not useful. The Desna article was useful, and I hope the Giant one will be too; I have no apparent use for the Dragons, and would really rather have had another religion instead (preferably Erastil or Lamashtu).
The location material has been mixed: Sandpoint was excellent, and the thumbnail sketches of Varisian locations in #3 is an absolute godsend--my PCs seem determined to tour the map--but Magnimar was too vague and dry.
I have zero use for the iconics--it's fine to have them in the art, but I would prefer to see useful NPC stats instead of iconics stats. Having Shalelu, Kendra, and Hemlock in #1, for example, would have been really helpful. Having a couple of Magnimar locations--not neighborhoods, but actual locations, like a seedy bar in Underbridge--in #2 would have been great too.
I expect my campaign will fail somewhere between late #4 and early #6. They always do; high level play with fast advancement just does not work for us. So I'm really looking forward to Crimson Throne and the chance to get two more low-level modules with the quality of Burnt Offerings and Skinsaw Murders.
I realize this is a market impossibility, but boy, I would pay double or triple the current price if I could get an Adventure Path that didn't advance in levels at the book rate, but half or less. That's what I really need. Pathfinder is even more of a problem for me than the Dungeon AP's were, because there are 3 levels per module instead of two, and inserting side adventures gets harder. There's no logical way to insert a lot of side adventures inside Jorgenfist, for example, and the PCs will go up two levels during that.... I did put two side adventures between #3 and #4, but it's lumpy and a lot of work. The old Dungeon adventures I'm drawing on don't have that Golarion flavor, and for me the flavor--the sense of a real gameworld here, not a patchwork composite--is the biggest draw of Pathfinder.
Mary
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I'm definitely looking for a new campaign setting since Wizards seems more then happy to destroy the Forgotten Realms with 4E, Pathfinder seems to be a great option.
However, my original disappointment with the product is still there. I miss Dragon, I play WAAAY more then I DM and Pathfinder bring nothing to me as a player.
I've absolutely loved Pathfinder so far. My group only just started Burnt Offerings this week, so we have a far way to go, but I can't wait to see how it all plays out.
The first two adventures, Burnt Offering and The Skinsaw Murders are some of the best adventures I have seen, and I can't wait to run The Skinsaw Murders. Hook Mountain Massacre looks alright as well, although it seems a lot of time is spent on the Grauls who are basically a side quest.
Fortress of the Stone Giants however, looks a little dull to me. It basically boils down to a massive dungeon crawl populated by giants. Although it is well done, I'm not buying pathfinder for Dungeon crawls. I can come up with those on my own. What I need from Pathfinder are interesting NPCs, Locations and Stories. And to go with that, some suggestions and ideas for typical encounters or side treks in each location.
Aldern Foxglove is a perfect example of the sort of thing I need more of. An interesting fleshed out NPC with plenty of hooks, and a suggestion for how he reacts to the PCs. In my campaign, instead of a plain old boring Boar Hunt, he has recruited the PCs to help him recover the Impaler of thorns for Xanesha, and it has replaced the Spirit Staff from TC1.
This is what I need Pathfinder for. Not another dungeon, but interesting plots and hooks and suggestions that allow me to respond to PCs actions. In burnt Offerings, I would have preferred Thistletop was cut back, and instead we had more details about the swallowtail festival. Events and people, and encounters for the PCs. I know as the DM, I should be able to come up with that stuff myself, but, to be honest, I suck at World Building.
Stats, NPCs, Dungeons, even adventures, I'm fine. I need Pathfinder to build that world for me, AND give me the tools (suggestions, encounters, etc) to introduce that world to my PCs. There seems to be too much focus on the Parts that give PCs XP, and not enough focus on the Roleplaying. I have no problem giving PCs XP, but good, interesting, relevant roleplaying is much harder for me to come up with, and any help Pathfinder can give me here is greatly appreciated.
Also, all the adventures so far (except for maybe #4, but especially #2 & #3) seem as if they have had a stack of information cut out. Leaving them with an "unfinished" feel and leaving me with a lot of work to do. For instance in The Skinsaw Murders, once the PCs get to Magnimar, all we get is three encounter locations, Foxglove's Townhouse, The Seven's Sawmill, and Shadows of time.
It is true that we get a GREAT backdrop article, but there is no information, or suggestions, or ideas for what things the PCs might do in Magnimar. No ideas at all for encounters to showcase Magnimar and reveal it to the PCs. As far as the adventure is concerned, you could easily run the last half in any generic city in any campaign world, and it would make no difference. Even a some simple boxed text describing Magnimar, the sights, the smells, the sounds for the PCs as they reach it for the first time would help. But the adventure basically just dumps you straight into Foxglove's Townhouse.
And I had a similar problem with Hook Mountain Massacre. It just seems to move from one encounter location to another, with little or no mention of how the PCs get there, or who they meet on the way, or what encounters they have that reveal the world. It would have been great o have the journey to Turtleback Ferry fleshed out, with some NPCs for them to meet, and interesting stuff that happens on the way, that reveals more of the world to them. But we just get instead a few words about possible routes they could take.
Well ,that ended up more detailed than I was expecting. But don't let the detail bog you down, I love Pathfinder, and I think with Pathfinder I'll be able to run good campaigns, but with a bit more focus on the world, and less on the XP, those campaigns could easily be great.
Who would have thought my comments would be less XP and more roleplay? But there they are. I can easily add encounters and Side treks to give my PCs XP. What I need Pathfinder to do is to give me the roleplaying encounters that reveal the world and the NPCs to the Characters.
I have a few more thoughts to add to my previous post. I have really liked Pathfinder Chronicles, and the Bestiary. Although I will echo previous comments that some monsters seem like they have been used in the adventures, simply because they were cool monsters added to the Bestiary (Goblin Dogs (why not Worgs?), Redcaps, Hounds of Tilos). The backhalf of each adventure has been excellent.
My one complaint is that the whole campaign is too tightly scripted. There is not really enough room for the PCs to go off on their own tangents. I have 6 PCs with high rolls (lucky stats), so this is magnified for me, but it feels like every encounter they have is in some way tied tightly to the overarching plot. There is very little room for Side treks. For fleshing out the world. For exploring the surrounds. For doing things for random PCs.
What I would like to see is about 10 pages cut from each adventure (I think I read James say they were surprised by the amount of stuff they were able to fit into each adventure compared to Dungeon anyway), and 2- 4 side treks added. Short adventures that have nothing to do with the "Rise of the Runelords" plot, but showcase various NPCs, and locations. Like the interludes in the Freeport Trilogy.
This would include things like a Welcome to Magnimar Encounter. A Welcome to Turtleback Ferry encounter. An encounter on the trip to Turtleback Ferry. Maybe a Merchant they meet on their way to Magnimar. A welcome back to Sandpoint Interlude at the start of #4 (although the Giant attack basically does this any way).
I suck with coming up with these, but some suggestions, that I can build off, and tailor to my party, would take Pathfinder from excellent, to The Best Gaming Product Ever Produced.
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So far I really like it, but I haven't played any of it yet, try to find a babysitter.
The one thing I would like is some more player info weather that is in the AP's or the Chronicles I don't care because I am getting both. I am guessing that Paizo doesn't want to put a lot of work into the player crunch when it will become obsolete if they move to 4e.
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Leave your mark for posterity, for the gamers yet to come, for the gamers that haven't yet found the path. Yeah, YOU are the Pathfinder.
Write a review for Pathfinder #1.
Not to forget that writing a review can be a lot of fun. I have written reviews of #1 and #2 so far for a german page and I'd love to post them here too but that would mean that I had to translate around 8.000 words (~4.000 words each) from german to english and I haven't found the time to do it yet.
What surprises me most about Pathfinder is how much I like the Bestiary. When I first heard that each issue would contain 6 new monsters I thought something on the line of "Who needs new monsters?" But what we got is so much better described than the MM-monsters that I can't wait to get more.
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Creative Director
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First off... this is a great thread! Keep the comments and suggestions coming!
There was a comment a few posts up about the feeling that the adventures feel "truncated," as if parts were cut out. This is unfortunately the case. With Pathfinder, we certainly did bite off more than we could chew, and most of our authors did the same. We certainly have more room in Pathfinder than in Dungeon, but not as much as we thought. That said, we're learning an awful lot from Pathfinder, and hopefully each Adventure Path will build on the previous one's discoveries. So keep the comments rolling in—and keep buying Pathfinder! :)
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Creative Director
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The one thing I would like is some more player info weather that is in the AP's or the Chronicles I don't care because I am getting both. I am guessing that Paizo doesn't want to put a lot of work into the player crunch when it will become obsolete if they move to 4e.
There's a certain amount of truth to that. But also, keep in mind that Pathfinder is first and foremost an adventure—a product not for players, but for GMs. There'll be player crunch in pretty much every volume to a certain extent, but generally not a lot of it overall. Part of that is because we're coming up on a possible edition change for us, sure, but most of it is due to the fact that Pathfinder's not aimed at players.
That said, response to Pathfinder and Golarion is pretty huge. The new Pathfinder Chronicles line of products are going to have a LOT more player content; but again, as we're currently in an edition switchover crisis, we'll be skewing the books toward flavor rather than crunch so that they'll be more useful across editions.
Once things settle down again on the edition front, I'm pretty sure that we'll be doing a fair amount of player option products. Not sure what, yet, but it's certainly a possibility.
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The one thing I would like is some more player info whether that is in the AP's or the Chronicles I don't care because I am getting both. I am guessing that Paizo doesn't want to put a lot of work into the player crunch when it will become obsolete if they move to 4e.
I can understand companies right now wanting to hold off on player crunch with 4E on the horizon. Even WotC have ceased releasing player crunch, which as a CURRENT 3.5 player, really annoys me, almost as much as releasing hybrid rules leading up to the cross-over (Diablo 2e/3e, Book of Nine Swords 3.5/4e) which fail to satisfy EITHER audience. It would be nice to enjoy a few more months of 3.5 PLAYER support, instead of a year of bleh.
Why not continue to give us the good stuff, and keep your current customers happy, right up to the day of release? For various reasons, not all of us are going to switch over on that day, it seems increasingly likely that the 3rd Adventure Path (Second Darkness) will remain 3.5. Many players will still be playing 3.5 Pathfinder campaigns well into 4E's release.
Sorry, I didn't mean for this to become yet another 3.5/4E rant, but player crunch is something players are looking for.
What I would like to see is about 10 pages cut from each adventure (I think I read James say they were surprised by the amount of stuff they were able to fit into each adventure compared to Dungeon anyway), and 2- 4 side treks added. Short adventures that have nothing to do with the "Rise of the Runelords" plot, but showcase various NPCs, and locations. Like the interludes in the Freeport Trilogy.
This would include things like a Welcome to Magnimar Encounter. A Welcome to Turtleback Ferry encounter. An encounter on the trip to Turtleback Ferry. Maybe a Merchant they meet on their way to Magnimar. A welcome back to Sandpoint Interlude at the start of #4 (although the Giant attack basically does this any way).
You know what might be interesting, what if instead of the Pathfinder's Journal, they instead put a short adventure not connected directly to the adventure path that introduced all of the same flavor that the Pathfinder's Journal does, but gives a DM additional material. I mean, wouldn't it be more fun to be a player running through a chase in Korvosa, after some thieves than merely reading about it? But perhaps that would step on the game modules too much.
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Four issues into the new Pathfinder series
The writing is compelling, definitely one of the strong points of Pathfinder. It is always a pleasure to read the adventures.
The strongest point of Pathfinder, in my opinion, is the mood.
So far, I LOVE Pathfinder. Excellent stuff. Great writing. Keep it coming.
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First off... this is a great thread! Keep the comments and suggestions coming!
There was a comment a few posts up about the feeling that the adventures feel "truncated," as if parts were cut out. This is unfortunately the case. With Pathfinder, we certainly did bite off more than we could chew, and most of our authors did the same. We certainly have more room in Pathfinder than in Dungeon, but not as much as we thought. That said, we're learning an awful lot from Pathfinder, and hopefully each Adventure Path will build on the previous one's discoveries. So keep the comments rolling in—and keep buying Pathfinder! :)
If you have to make some cuts, which I understand, why not put the extra cut parts online, much like necro did on some products ?
You know what might be interesting, what if instead of the Pathfinder's Journal, they instead put a short adventure not connected directly to the adventure path that introduced all of the same flavor that the Pathfinder's Journal does, but gives a DM additional material. I mean, wouldn't it be more fun to be a player running through a chase in Korvosa, after some thieves than merely reading about it? But perhaps that would step on the game modules too much.
Now here's an idea. Use the same kind of storyline, but make it into a memorable sidetrek.
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The blue pages, details about Varisia, Sandpoint, Magnimar, etc. Should be completely player friendly, no DM only information. It is painful that I cannot print out a copy of the city of sandpoint for the players.
So would there be two sections on these places then? The secrets for the GM have to be somewhere.
I'm content just having the pdf. I can easily copy the text, paste it someplace else, and edit out the stuff players shouldn't have. It won't look as pretty, but it works just fine.