Yeah, but part of the competition is using good judgment and exercising creativity within the constraints provided. Part of that is interpreting what the judges are looking for. If you can't follow instructions and be original, you're probably not the type of person they're seeking.
And if the Judges choose not to answer, that's their perogative. Shouldn't hurt to ask.
Yeah, but magic is a much more technical game. Plus, if you look at the Magic design contest run by WotC, I think you will see that they ran the contest in a similar manner - giving out assignments that required interpretation and judging people by how well they performed within those parameters.
You're right about that, but there were also fewer contestants and, since Magic is more technical, less wiggle room. ('Make a common cycle' is WAY more specific than 'Make a country')
Submission query: I am assuming a contestent only gets to submit his entry once just like in the first round which may be a fallacy on my part.
Suppose one or more of the 32 contestents could submit his or her entry early and chooses to do so, for the purposes of my query say the first submission is submitted on Thursday several days before the deadline for round 2.
Will the judges be posting general comments regarding early predeadline submissions on the boards for the Paizo community and other contestents to review before the round 2 deadline? My concern is it would seem to benefit the other contestents who delay their submissions by allowing them to fine tune or polish their concept country a little further after reviewing even general comment feedback from a judge on an early submission.
My suggestion is: once the rules are set, no flexing. No creative interpretations, no “well, as we said in this post,” no keep up with the message board posts about the topic, no anything except the rules as written.
|
The second post is 1250+ words, now imagine doing it 32 times. Now try to make an informed decision.
I would appreciate, as someone who intends on voting, that the submissions be kept to less than 10 minutes of reading each. I think 1250 words on the outside is not necessarily unreasonable. But if I have to spend more than 1 night reading through all the entries, someone is going to get the short end of the stick. With 7 days to judge I would like to read the entries one time through on day one and day two, then take one to two days to think about it, unless one is obviously the best, then read the ones that stand out one last time, then vote. If it takes 6 out of 7 nights just to read the submissions, then those listed first will have a distinct advantage.
Since the majority of us will be voting and not submitting maybe we should discuss what kinds of things we are going to basing our votes on. Alphabetical, Random Number Generator, Eenie Meenie Miney Mo, How many times I can spell out my name in the text, etc.
That information, perhaps more than anything else will help those creating the submissions.
I don't want to read a short story. It has to be someplace a character can go from 1st till [I get bored playing the character] level. If it is based on the SRD. I don't want to have to open half the documents to create a character for it. I want to be able to make a character of any level to particiate, I don't want to have to start at 15th level to be able to enjoy it. It should have a place for any class in the SRD. It should be someplace a character can be any alignment. Most importantly it has to sound like someplace I would like to create a character for or run a campaign in.
If it takes 6 out of 7 nights just to read the submissions, then those listed first will have a distinct advantage.
In addition to the wordcount cap, a randomizer script (so all entrants would have opportunities to show up at or near the top of the list) might help scatter the voter-fatigue.
CEO
|
There will be no maps.Good. I think that makes it harder in many ways. I can't think of a country (fantasy or real) that I've seen described without a map. But I think it makes sense here.
This doesn't mean that you can't make a map on your own. Just because you aren't going to submit the map doesn't mean that you shouldn't make one. I know that if I was going to make a country up, I would sketch out the map first. My suggestion would be to make a quick and dirty map sketch that you can use for inspiration and to make sure you've thought of everything. You just won't be able to show that map in the contest, so make sure it isn't needed for your words to make sense. :)
-Lisa
And if the Judges choose not to answer, that's their perogative. Shouldn't hurt to ask.
And after a deep breath, Ross has made the much more reasoned reply that I should have made in the first place.
Pardon my drama. I guess I'm invested.
The sentiment still stands though. It shouldn't hurt to ask.
I would appreciate, as someone who intends on voting, that the submissions be kept to less than 10 minutes of reading each.
Regardless of the official word count, I seriously doubt that I'll bother spending 10 minutes reading a single entry. Like Vic mentioned earlier, if you can't grab my attention with the first 100 words, you're not going to get my vote. I don't care how detailed your politics section is in paragraph twelve...I'm not going to bother reading it unless you've already sold me in paragraph one.
Having said that, everyone is working with the same word limit. IMO, a good designer should be able to create an interesting entry in 500, 2000, or 10000 words. A good designer should be able to highlight the coolest aspects of their entry in a couple of sentences. If you need thousands of words to truly express the coolness that is your country, maybe you should reconsider and submit a different one.
Maybe I'm just a lazy voter, but I intend to read the first few lines of each entry and narrow down my selection to the top 3-5. Then I'll read those entire entries and vote on the one I like the best. The good thing about being a voter in round 2 (as opposed to round 1) is that I only have to pick one winner, not 32!
My suggestion is: once the rules are set, no flexing. No creative interpretations, no “well, as we said in this post,” no keep up with the message board posts about the topic, no anything except the rules as written.
I agree. That is why I am asking these questions in advance so that I can give as clear of instructions as possible. And so that it can all be in the official instructions.
We wont be doing that.
Thanks for all the input!
I will clarify a few things (onoe of which Vic already clarified):
Maps: There will not be any maps. We will not be providing a blank one for you to fill in (though that is kind of a neat idea and I wish I had thought of that). And you cannot submit any maps as part of the process. So maps are out. This is text only. But that was a great question and I am happy to clarify it.
What does the word limit apply to?: The word limit will apply to every part of your entry. I will clarify this in the rules.
Stat blocks: Good question. I will address that more clearly in the rules.
Word count: The word limit will definately be more than 200 words and less than 5000 words :) (You'll have to wait and see what the word limit is, no more clues from me). I appreciate the various inputs on this. I know some say they cant truly show their stuff in less than 4000 words. Well, I agree with Vic. If you havent hooked me by word 100, you arent going to hook me at 3900. I guarantee you an RPG Superstar could do a great country in 250 words, and we will allow you more than that. In the end, we need entries that give you enough space and also keep them at a readable size for review.
The definition of "country": I appreciate everyone's input on this. I will address this in the rules, but we are going to have a very broad definition.
I'll go back and re-read all the threads, but if you have other items of clarification post them clearly following this post so that I know to address them.
Again, there is a short turn around time here and I want to make sure everyone has clear instructions from the get go.
By the way, I bet if you did some real good evocative writing you could clearly convey the backstory and elements of Midnight in a 500 word country description even without everything fully spelled out. I know an RPG Superstar could. (by the way, I pulled 500 words out of my butt, that should not be taken as a clue as to what the word count here will be for this contest).
Bring your A-game, people.
We will only get boring generic entries if that is what is submitted. And I know for a fact our top 32 are not going to do that.
More answers:
I will clarify these things in teh official rules or perhaps in a FAQ for this round that will go out with the rules.
Q: I would like to know if I need to stat out important people.
A: I will address this in the rules or the FAQ. Stat blocks will likely not be mandatory but if you want to include them you can.
Q: how big an area it is (like are we limited to something the size of Idaho, the Pacific Northwest, or is the only limit what we want):
A: I will address this too. But the assignment is for a country. We are going to be very flexible with this--from an island chain to a conventional kingdom to an enchanted wizard's vale with its own population to a huge sprawling metropolis. Basically, a country will likely be described loosely as "Anything that would merit its own geo/political entry in a gazeeteer about your fantasy world." A country is NOT just a geographical region, like a mountain chain (though a mountain chain could be the setting where your country is placed). We want to see what you do with this. That is part of the creativity for you.
Q: whether or not we can include spoiler information for adventures.
A: That will be addressed in the rules. Good question.
Q: Also, will there be limits on religions/alignments, or will that be taboo?
A: Good question, that will be addressed in the rules.
Keep the questions coming. I want to make the rules as helpful as possible.
Clark
I would perfer to the point of demanding of what a fantasy country is. A guideline to what is expected will help ensure responces are on key but still vital. When you say fantasy country, I think it could include things like
A Hard Sci-Fi Country (some will disagree but I think you can argue to lump sci-fi under fantasy not above or beside it)
A Steam Punk/Technomancy/Industrial Magic Country
A Alternative History Country (Germany Today, WITH OCCULTZIES)
A Renaissance version of the above
A Mid-evil ages version of the above
A middle ages version of the above
A Dark Ages version of the above
A Older/Different Version of the above ( entering Pulp , and sword and sandel territory here [I'm thinking Conan with pulp], or Sir Arthur Doyel [with his challenger line])
I think it would be really cool if you guys were as open as the word fantasy or peoples interpretations of it, if I'm out to lunch. I think a few of the possibilities here are probably not what you want. More clarification would be appreciated.
That is an excellent question and one I contemplated answering in the draft of the rules that I have now, but I didnt. And I dont think we will.
That is going to be up to you. That is a creative design choice you are going to have to make.
Be guided by this--can you play D&D there? If so, then I dont see why you cant do it. We certainly wont reject a submission that was any of the ones on your list above (though hard sci-fi and germany today might really be pushing the limits).
Now, that said, I cant guarantee the appeal of some of those more limited settings. The members of the community in the end will decide, not the judges.
This is a country for a fantasy campaign. If you want to diverge from that into hard sci-fi or a modern country with a twist, that is your call. I'm not sure that is the target we had in mind, but in the end the community will decide.
|
|
Regardless of the official word count, I seriously doubt that I'll bother spending 10 minutes reading a single entry. Like Vic mentioned earlier, if you can't grab my attention with the first 100 words, you're not going to get my vote.
Good point! I made that sound like I was willing to be way more accommodating than I am actually going to be. If it doesn't catch my attention within a paragraph or two, I may give a scan of the remainder but am likely to move on quickly.
My main point is: more than 10 minutes reading material for each item is expecting a whole lot of the contestants and the voters.
This round more than any others is the writer's chance to entertain and write creatively exclusively. The next couple of parts are very much about mechanics along with entertainment. So be entertaining, don't bore me with details, yet.
Q: "Is a nation that's part of an Empire acceptable? A state that's part of a nation? A duchy that's part of a kingdom? In Greyhawk I believe there are countries that are named duchies and in birthright there were no kingdoms per se. I'd prefer this be very open..."
A: All those would be acceptable and are good examples. Our intent is that it be open as you describe.
Q: "For instance: City-States (Ancient Athens, Monaco, Luxemburg, the Vatican), yay or nay?"
A: Those cities themselves are probably not "countries," per se, but perhaps the city state and the surrounding region could be considered a country. Just describing the city would likely not be enough."
Let's use Tolkien as an example:
If country means "geo-political region which would merit its own entry in a gazeetteer of the fantasy world in which it is set," then we could look at Middle Earth:
Things that could be "Countries":
Rohan
Gondor
Eriador
Rhuadar
Lindon
Moria (this is a great example of a unique setting that would be a country under the expanded definition)
Thranduil's Realm
The Shire
Mordor
Ithilien
Angmar
Goblin town
Likely NOT "Countries":
Mirkwood--its a geographic feature
Misty Mountains--same
Isengard--Bad guy fortress (though perhaps the Gap of Rohan could be considered a "country")
Minas Tirith--its a city
Tharbad--also a city
Carn Dum--an evil city
The Lonely Mountain (before it became a dwarven kingdom)--a geographic location without a real geopolitical relevance, it is just a monster lair.
I dont want this to turn into a Tolkien scholarship discussion and I appologize if I messed any of this up. These are for illustration purposes.
Can we allude to a race or creature(s) that may not be written up in SRD, but also is not found in any other setting (including Paizo's)?
The race of creatures would be original or unique to the submission.
Assume descriptive text is not over done and applies itself towards describing the country and not necessarily the entities, but that it also makes sense contextually when you read it.
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
I'd much prefer a midnight deadline Monday night than a noon one this time around.
All deadlines throughout this competition will be at noon PST on the date specified in the schedule. This is so that stuff happens while we're in the office. If you want a midnight deadline, you can either set your clock ahead 12 hours, or move to Abu Dhabi.
|
|
Round 2 Paizo
What I would like to have included:
1. An option for art work to go with the assignment (though I think this should be only done as a bonus not the focus).
2. How far into descriptions/depth of areas such as, Religion(s), Politics, Racial breakdowns, number of cities, towns, villages, Population limits.
I for one have placed my thinking cap on for round two since the first round, as a veteran GM I believe it is always better to be prepared. I have well over 20 years of gaming under my belt, nearly all behind the screen, so I made my approach to this as DESIGN your own country which I have started from the ground up and have been working on, just this weekend the idea of here is the generic map now make the country was presented to me and I would say this would not bother me as an option either. I would say that submission of a map should be optional, which would mean some form of Jpeg ECT would need to be allowed per entry or a choice(s) of a generic map should be included. I find that if a word limit is place, as with round one I found it hard to have a good physical description and the game mechanics all included (hence I have a drawing for my wondrous item with no way to share it at this time) after all a picture is worth a thousand words :)
I wish everyone that entered "good luck" and I can not wait to see the first round winners.
Sean
Content can only be:
1. from the SRD; or
2. your own creation
That's it.
I am putting the finishing touches on the assignment for Round Two. I expect the assignment for Round Two will be posted at the same time that the top 32 are announced (but that isnt up to me, its up to Vic and Lisa and Co.).
So as I sit here finalizing the instructions, I was wondering if you all who might be working on this already had any particular areas you wanted me to make sure we address in the instructions.
I'll take your input, if you want. The turn around on this round is short so I'd rather get your input now.
Here are some basics, though I wont provide details.
*There will be a word limit that will apply to the entire submission.
*The country you design must be based on SRD content or content you create, it cannot use or refer to any existing or previously-published campaign setting, including Paizo content (this is different from the Open Call for wondrous items from Round One which could refer to Paizo content).
*There will be a list of content (such as name of country, etc.) that MUST be included in the submission. Everything else is up to you.
*A sample format will be provided, but it is not mandatory that you use it if you feel a better format will show off your creation to better advantage.
*The purpose of this round is to judge your creation abilities and writing talents. It is NOT meant for you to create content for Paizo Inc. or for any other existing or previously-published campaign settings.
*The submitted country must be for a fantasy campaign world, as might appear in a published gazetteer.What other questions or issues would you like to see addressed in the official instructions?
Thanks for asking Mr Peterson. And thanks for the feedback so far from everyone. It is awesome. My concerns have been addressed just by this.
Thanks!Ok my real question is where in the three hundreds did my wondrous item land *grin*
|
Hummm...
Things in the public domain too?
Mark
Huge caveat - The follow is only my own thought/supposition, as I am not one of the runners of the thing and could easily WRONG.
I doubt they'd let you use something from the public domain, as it is clearly not your own creation unless you're like, well, 80+ years old.
You'd be an adapter or an re-imagineer, not a creator.
Of course, this is just my opinion/thought, I'm sure Mr. Peterson will amaze us in a moment with his Legal-Mind Fu, it's been quite impressive, thus far.
Yeah, but I advise against getting too clever. Context is key. If we go "what the hell is a gwangnutzii," you're up the creek.
in gnomish it is a thin nut, but only the gninjas gnow that.
In gnomish it is a thin nut, but only the gninjas gnow that.
Get him! He should not have the sacred nut! He knows not its power!
Regarding the definition of "country" I think the best way to say it is a "geopolitical region or area that would merit its own entry in a gazzetteer of the fantasy campaign."
"Country" is more than just "region" or "area". But it doesnt have to necessarily have an exact boundary. It needs to have a geopolitical relevance beyond just being an area of adventure.
It is more than a city (generally, but see below) and less than a continent (generally, but see Australia).
Let's use Tolkien as an example.
Things that would be "Countries"
All the "big ticket" countries are obvious:
Gondor, Arnor, Eriador, Rohan, Mordor, Lindon, Rhun.
Here are some others that would be countries:
The Shire--a small "country" within a larger one
Angmar--an ancient evil country, subject to another country
Tharanduil's Realm--indistinct borders, part of a geographic feature but still a "country"
Rhudaur--a subdivision of Eriador
Here are some things that are probably regions or geographic features, and not "countries":
Enedwaith--region, not a "country"
Mirkwood--geographic feature
Misty Mountains--geographic feature
The Lonely Mountain (except perhaps when it is a dwarf kingdom)--this is a monster lair
Also not "countries":
Minas Tirith--really big city
Isengard--bad guy stronghold
Rivendell--good guy stronghold
Carn Dum--evil fortress
Some things that arguably could be "countries":
Ithilien--a subdivision of Gondor, or a disputed territory
Moria (when it was a dwarven kingdom)--could be considered a country in a sense
Maybe these examples will help.
I dont want to start a thread on Tolkien scholarship and I dont mean to be right or wrong about this stuff. I offer it only as a common example for what we mean by "country."
Sure, you can use stuff in teh public domain, but you better be damn sure it is in the public domain.
But then again, why would you use stuff in the public domain?
I really wished to thank the judges for both asking for input on the next round and on helping give something for nervous entrants to read and pass the time while we wait. :)
That said, a few thoughts:
1. If a unique set of conditions affects your country but also affects its neighbors in a continent (or island chain, whatever), would it be acceptable to allude to this in the description by giving the appropriate background? In other words, even though this is a COUNTRY contest, let's say there was a common condition -- you are at war with a neighboring country. I would assume at least a short discussion of that war might be acceptable -- however, I also would not wish to be accused of trying to shoehorn in TWO countries for the price of one. . .
2. In future contests, I would suggest perhaps leaving the country idea for a later stage. In general, the idea seems (rightly) to have been that each design effort is subsequently more challenging. . . or at least more lengthy! The idea of having a contest start with shorter tasks then build to ones that are more lengthy and involved: a new spell, a new magic item, a new NPC/villain, then perhaps a country, plane, etc. The reason is also practical. As the contest goes on there are fewer contestants per round, so people will have less reading fatigue when faced with longer and more complex entries.
Thanks again for allowing us to contribute in multiple ways -- not only in entries but in helping shape this and future contests.
+5 Interactivity FTW.
|
Sure, you can use stuff in teh public domain, but you better be damn sure it is in the public domain.
But then again, why would you use stuff in the public domain?
It's just that the way it was written made this unclear. If you were, for example, planning on doing a country based on Greek gods, it's nice to know that's legal.
|
|
In addition to the wordcount cap, a randomizer script (so all entrants would have opportunities to show up at or near the top of the list) might help scatter the voter-fatigue.If it takes 6 out of 7 nights just to read the submissions, then those listed first will have a distinct advantage.
I completely agree with the idea of attempting to manage voter-fatigue. I had been thinking of this as I read on through this board, and had become somewhat concerned. DCII, thanks for mentioning this!
Marley
Yes, if poor Xavier Zimmerman makes it, his entry may never be read…
|
Senior Software Developer
|
If it takes 6 out of 7 nights just to read the submissions, then those listed first will have a distinct advantage.
It'll be presented as a standard paizo.com messageboard forum. Each entry is a thread. The default ordering of threads on our forums is by most recent post. You'll get the normal sort by topic, number of posts and most recent post links at the top of the page. (And clicking the link twice will sort by that criteria in reverse.)
So by default the list will be sorted by whichever entries were commented upon last -- for the first few minutes after they're public, that'll be the reverse order in which the judges commented. But since anyone will be able to comment, that sorting will jump all over the place as people comment on entries.
I think most people who want to vote will actually read each entry before voting, no matter what order they're presented. People might not read all the commentary on each entry, but they'll read the entries themselves.
(Or at least, as Vic says, the first hundred words or so.... If you can't grab a reader's attention quickly, you're probably not an RPG Superstar. :-)
Round 2 Paizo
What I would like to have included:
1. An option for art work to go with the assignment (though I think this should be only done as a bonus not the focus).
2. How far into descriptions/depth of areas such as, Religion(s), Politics, Racial breakdowns, number of cities, towns, villages, Population limits.
1. There will be NO ART and NO MAPS. They wont even be allowed as optional parts of the submission. I'll make that clear in the rules.
No crutches. No training wheels. Get it done with good writing.
2. As for how far into descriptions of religion, etc, that is up to you. In fact, those choices are the things that we are all going to be waiting to see how you do with them.
1. If a unique set of conditions affects your country but also affects its neighbors in a continent (or island chain, whatever), would it be acceptable to allude to this in the description by giving the appropriate background? In other words, even though this is a COUNTRY contest, let's say there was a common condition -- you are at war with a neighboring country. I would assume at least a short discussion of that war might be acceptable -- however, I also would not wish to be accused of trying to shoehorn in TWO countries for the price of one. . .
2. In future contests, I would suggest perhaps leaving the country idea for a later stage. In general, the idea seems (rightly) to have been that each design effort is subsequently more challenging. . . or at least more lengthy! The idea of having a contest start with shorter tasks then build to ones that are more lengthy and involved: a new spell, a new magic item, a new NPC/villain, then perhaps a country, plane, etc. The reason is also practical. As the contest goes on there are fewer contestants per round, so people will have less reading fatigue when faced with longer and more complex entries.
1. I dont see why it wouldnt. Those are some of the choices you will need to make.
2. Nope. We did this on purpose. Wondrous items are very narrow. We have to have it that way because we cant read 850+ countries. We want to see contestants design from the small to the large. Going from wondrous item to country is the best way to go. We really want to see as many people as possible flexing their creative writing muscles. So this makes sense.
Kobold Press
|
2. Nope. We did this on purpose. Wondrous items are very narrow. We have to have it that way because we cant read 850+ countries. We want to see contestants design from the small to the large. Going from wondrous item to country is the best way to go. We really want to see as many people as possible flexing their creative writing muscles. So this makes sense.
We're starting with two extreme ends of the design spectrum. Anyone who passes muster at the first two hurdles is going to have chops with mechanics and with flavor. They'll need both in future rounds.
Plus hey, designing a country is a wide-open, fairly freeform design task. There's huge potential for getting it right or going wildly astray. That's what makes it interesting for a contest.
I for one look forward to the chance to flex entirely different muscles in round two.
Round one was very fun with a crunchy, rules driven center covered in a sweetly thin layer of fluffy descriptors.
I anticipate round two to involve more narrative - spinning a word-picture of a far-off land that everyone will be itching to visit, with perhaps a bit of crunchy sprinkles on top (statistics - possible adventuring sites, whatever the contest parameters call for/ allow)
I'm going to base it on "The Music Man".
Seventy-six trombones led the paraaaaaaaaaaaaaaade! With a hundred and ten cor-o-nets close at haaaaaaaaaaaand!
If he gets The Music Man, I demand The Man of La Mancha!
Fiddler on the Roof
Thanks for your input, everyone.
I hope there was nothing else.
I worked all that you asked, and some more stuff, into a FAQ appended to the Round 2 rules which I have now sent off to Gary and Vic (and Erik, Wolfgang and Lisa).
Your input was really valuable and hopefully helped me craft nice, clear rules for the submissions. The turn around on these is real tight and we wont be commenting on rules and clarifications of rules once the contest starts.
Thanks again!
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
|
Maps: There will not be any maps.
Perfect. Thank you for the prompt clarification.
We will not be providing a blank one for you to fill in (though that is kind of a neat idea and I wish I had thought of that).
Same here. I didn't think of it either, I mean.
But that was a great question and I am happy to clarify it.
Awww. You’re going to make me blush.
But seriously, thanks again to all of the fine folks at Paizo (and beyond). Win or lose, this has been wonderful.
Boom, I still think your monkey pants deserve an honorable mention... I loved them! Hopefully your submitted item makes the cut.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
|
Boom, I still think your monkey pants deserve an honorable mention... I loved them! Hopefully your submitted item makes the cut.
Awww. Now I am blushing.
Also: If my item makes the cut, I will crap myself twice and die. Then you WILL need those extra, back-up Honorary Mention writers.
Out of curiosity, will you have Special Mention Awards, for things like:
- “Longest Entry (disqualified)”
- “Funniest Entry, Not Submitted" (that would be me, one hopes)
or
- “Heartbreaker Award for Best Entry Totally Missing a Price Tag” ?
That would be fun, I think.
Oh god. The idea of going back through all of the 850+ just seems too much at this point. I dont know. I cant commit to it. You have no idea how much work that was...
Oh god. The idea of going back through all of the 850+ just seems too much at this point. I dont know. I cant commit to it. You have no idea how much work that was...
It would be nice if you could rank the 850 by several different criteria- humor, imagination, rules adherence, mechanics, utility, accuracy of pricing, and suitability for each SRD character class.
If you guys could get that done by the time you post the top 32, that would be great!
(runs. ducks. runs much, much further away.)
aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
[failed SAN check]