18%
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For me (as well as my gamer crew) ill be sticking with 3.5! I have enough material to keep going for decades! LOL. Personally, i still think its too early for 4th ed, but that is a debate thats already been raked over several million times!!!
Perhaps in 2010 ill check it out!
Keep those dice rolling all!
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Hmm as of today the totals are looking pretty anti-4E
4th Edition. 255 18%
3rd Edition. 626 44%
An older edition. 55 3%
I go where Paizo goes! 168 11%
The jury's still out. 262 18%
No D&D for me! 37 2%
Even adding Paizo going to 4th, to the 4E people, and all the jury it barely edges out 3e... at 47%
1403 total votes...
I wonder if this is standard for the gaming community. I know alot of us have entire groups that agree...
I might stick with Paizo if they go 4E...but I won't go 4e...I would be back-converting...unless Paizo would back convert with a web-enhancement or conversion blocks...I know it's not likely, as they've already said...at least with Paizo I'm sure there'd be player support for reverse conversions...
Even adding Paizo going to 4th, to the 4E people, and all the jury it barely edges out 3e... at 47%
Then factor in how many will go 4E once they see the rules, those that switch to 4E because they can't find a 3.5 group, those that were involved in a 4E RPGA/convention/etc game and saw that it was infact "cool", and others that intended to stick with 3.5 until they day they died and for one reason or another didn't.
Then add in those that stick with 3.5 but feel they have enough material run games for several more years without buying anything, are gamers and don't buy adventure paths/GMMs/etc, or whatever.
Add all that up and 4E looks awfully attractive. Esp w/ 6 months of little competition.
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Then add in those that stick with 3.5 but feel they have enough material run games for several more years without buying anything, are gamers and don't buy adventure paths/GMMs/etc, or whatever.
Add in people who stick with 3.5 and don't buy anything? that makes no sense. How do you figure you add them to the 4dventure crew? I'm one of those, and I don't feel I should be added to the 4dventure group, perhaps you mistyped something and would like to clarify your position.
All I know is that 4E totally screws up Eberron currently, no gnomes, no half-orcs in the PHB. Where do Dragonborn fit into Eberron? The dragons HATE half-dragons, perhaps there was a hidden city of dragonborn on Argonessen. Dragonmarks will be woefully underpowered in their current form compared to all the special abilities we've seen previewed.
We'll see what happens, maybe there will be a poll of who bought into 4e in June, what books they bought and when they plan to march to the Hasbro drums...
Add in people who stick with 3.5 and don't buy anything? that makes no sense.Then add in those that stick with 3.5 but feel they have enough material run games for several more years without buying anything, are gamers and don't buy adventure paths/GMMs/etc, or whatever.
I mean you have to factor them into the equation. They don't get "added" to the 4E crew, but for all tense and purposes, those that don't buy 3.5 products are non-customers and that ~45% drops further.
Considering the fact that one of our games is still running in Second Edition and most of the players are resistant to changing to 3rd I don't think that we'll even look at 4th edition for while.
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For my main campaign we're at 15th level and starting to hit the "bugs" associated with the rule system as it is. Things are really starting to break (durn, save or die again, sorry, back to town) that make it more and more appealing to "punt" and go with something that hopefully (please?) addresses at least some of those issues.
I will comment that as soon as Star wars saga came out our GM for that and I sat down with it for a couple hours and it was a no brainer to switch over. It's a real time saver that substantially increased the role-playing. 9th level multi-attack/multi-fire/auto-fire lasers get a bit out of control with the amount of dice. When you've got 4 pc's all making 4 or 5 shots a round, you get only two or three fights in a game session.
Pete
The problem with D+D at level 15+ is this.
People forget that in a "standard' game, there's more time between adventures, training rules which slow things down, and at high levels, when you become a mover and shaker, other movers and shakers come to visit you for advice, assistance, and alliance/enemy formations. Not all threats come at the point of a sword.
Plus, if Paizo stays 3.5, it becomes 56 percent in favor of staying 3e. That's over 50 percent of the market, and if people feel they can get the handbooks without compromising their existing games, well, that will go a long way towards supporting the system.
I think Wizards has underestimated the gaming environment.
NONE OF THE ABOVE. From what I've seen, I expect to be playing an unnatural hybrid of 3e, 3.5e, and 4e. I like some of the 4e preview stuff I've seen, and intensely dislike some of the other elements. So I'll start with the more flexible base system (we'll see which one), prune off the stuff I dislike, and then graft on favored elements from the other one.
Likewise (though in my case just 3.5 and 4e). It will be primarily 3.5, I suspect, but with choice bits of 4e nicked (at the moment I'm leaning towards maneuvers for Fighters, traps and XP). I'll likely steal the best ideas, even if they're not directly compatible with 3.5.
However, it is quite likely that I'll be playing 'pure' 3.5 at the end of this year, as I've got one entire campaign in 3.5 written and ready to go, plus another one writing.
I'm treating 4e the same way I did with 3rd edition Rolemaster; some clever ideas many of which can be pinched, and some really lousy ones. It certainly isn't the unilateral step fowards 3.x was over AD&D (I remember reading it through and failing to find not a single thing (that had not been carried over from AD&D, Death from Massive Damage, looking at you) that I did not think was a vast improvement. 4e is leaving me feeling very ambivilent.
Ironically, of course, I actually have cold, undead hands...
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The problem with D+D at level 15+ is this.
People forget that in a "standard' game, there's more time between adventures, training rules which slow things down, and at high levels, when you become a mover and shaker, other movers and shakers come to visit you for advice, assistance, and alliance/enemy formations. Not all threats come at the point of a sword.
Yes, well, uh, try to explain that to the Cavalier, the Knight of the Chalice, and the Cleric of Pelor. The Cavalier especially as he loves his role playing. "I need a Quest! You! Citizen! Are you troubled by demons or undead?" (citizen: "Gah!" runs away) The town elders cringe because they've got so many enemies trying to blow them up. And of course most of the time the Inn ends up in flames and they're standing in the midst of it unscratched. "Here's some gold for the mess. Sorry. But we shall avenge your scullery boy! A Quest!"
"alliance/enemy formations" Snort!
Yes, well, uh, try to explain that to the Cavalier, the Knight of the Chalice, and the Cleric of Pelor. The Cavalier especially as he loves his role playing. "I need a Quest! You! Citizen! Are you troubled by demons or undead?" (citizen: "Gah!" runs away) The town elders cringe because they've got so many enemies trying to blow them up. And of course most of the time the Inn ends up in flames and they're standing in the midst of it unscratched. "Here's some gold for the mess. Sorry. But we shall avenge your scullery boy! A Quest!"
That is one stupid city. Everyone knows how to deal with bored high-level adventurers (well, at least everyone who governs a city that isn't less than 10 minutes away from total nuklear annihilation does):
Invent quests. Know why bards are tolerated in cities, despite being the pest? Because they're great at inventing epic quests (you don't believe that everything they sing about really happened, do you Naivete McNaive - if that's your real name!).
So they see some guy in a ton of metal casually dragging a priceless artifact sword behind him in the dirt of the road, and less than 2 minutes later, the city council knows it. Then they open the Red Drawer which contains a magic sending device. 35-40 seconds later, a number of highly trained sleeper agends awake in the city:
A women that has been living as the baker's wife for the last 20 years, bearing him 3 beautiful children, suddenly runs screaming towards said hero, falls down before him, almost kissing his feat, and under tears that just don't want to stop, she tells him her (previously studied until known by heart) moving story about her son has been kidnapped by the Unspeakable Monster of Aaxzdruae (something that is nearly unpronouncable - but she does a pretty good job), which everybody knows has its lair in a cave in the Mountain of Dread, conveniently located just far away from the city that any magical backlash will spare it. The guy goes on his quest (consisting of killing monsters in hundreds of dungeon rooms - all of which will be just as crowded a month later, what with monstrous fertility being what it is - and hunting one "clue" to the next, something which will happily occupy the adventurers for at least 2 months, and finally bringing them to some place very far from here, and near a completely different city, preferrably in enemy territory.
That's also the reason thieves' guilds still exist: They're tolerated by the government for exchange of their "premium services" consisting of planting clues in monster-infested dungeons (although it's not so bad, because they'll plant the new clues shortly after the latest band of adventurers went through, so most monsters are gone. Plus, they know about the back door.)
Sorry! I'll STILL be playing my mildly house-ruled 2nd Ed. AD&D for as long as I'm still around! In fact, I've even decided to start a whole NEW campaign system, based around the core rules for 2nd Ed. AD&D! (Screw the whole d20 system!) Bloodworld(c) rules!
The problem with D+D at level 15+ is this.
People forget that in a "standard' game, there's more time between adventures, training rules which slow things down, and at high levels, when you become a mover and shaker, other movers and shakers come to visit you for advice, assistance, and alliance/enemy formations. Not all threats come at the point of a sword.
Yes, well, uh, try to explain that to the Cavalier, the Knight of the Chalice, and the Cleric of Pelor. The Cavalier especially as he loves his role playing. "I need a Quest! You! Citizen! Are you troubled by demons or undead?" (citizen: "Gah!" runs away) The town elders cringe because they've got so many enemies trying to blow them up. And of course most of the time the Inn ends up in flames and they're standing in the midst of it unscratched. "Here's some gold for the mess. Sorry. But we shall avenge your scullery boy! A Quest!"
"alliance/enemy formations" Snort!
This is why you don't reward people with gold at high levels. You reward them with land and titles. Suddenly, that cavelier has to be RESPONSIBLE for these people. And he has to deal with...shudder...politics.
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While it may be hard to infer, I estimate a 67% staying with Paizo if they stay with 3rd edition, at least for the near term. The 3.5 or die will stay. The 'where ever Paizo leads' will stay. The customers who are still playing an earlier edition (if they're buying products now) will stay.
The only group that won't stay is the 4th edition only. The 'need more information' can't be predicted. But estimating a 50/50 split (and it could come out much more favorably) is where I get my 67%.
Using the same logic, I'd expect 38% of the customers to go with Paizo if they go 4th edition. Though, of course, it may offer a larger market in the long term.
Again, rather than deciding what to do now, there is very little incentive to rush to 4th edition. Wait a year or two. See how it goes. Don't waste $5,000 on a product you're going to get for free later, especially considering there appears to be little support (comparatively) among the current market base.
My plans as of right now are to continue playing 3.x for this year. I just started running the Savage Tide Adventure Path. We're on the 2nd part already, but I imagine it'll take quite some time to get all the way through it. If I finish that I'll either let someone else DM or run one more shorter campaign of my own devising.
I'll probably at least pick up the 4e PHB in the next year, but I don't plan on switching systems for awhile.
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All I know is that 4E totally screws up Eberron currently, no gnomes, no half-orcs in the PHB. Where do Dragonborn fit into Eberron?
Are the Dragonborn not half-dragons, then?
It's a serious question; but I've no intention of dropping 15 quid (or however much it is) to find out.I don't mean specifically the direct progeny of a dragon and a human; I assumed half-dragons could be like half-elves, in that their non-human sire could be several generations removed.
If Dragonborn are not a hybrid race, but a purely draconic-only race, then haven't we already got them?
They're called kobolds.
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"alliance/enemy formations" Snort!
My lawyers have instructed me to inform you that the exclamation 'Snort!' is in fact an Intellectual Property of this Lord of the Board, and you should cease and desist using it forthwith.
If you still feel the need to express a combination of disdain and disgust, you are free to use the OGL term 'Pfeh!'.
One thing that truly irrates me is the lack of time betweeb editions. I mean I played 2ed for 11 years before switching to 3rd and then 3.5 after that. So I have about 8 more years before I will even consider changing again. So unless a SWAT team with C4 cwith medical support omes to make me change, I will stay 3.5. I realize it is a buisness and they need to make money but damn why do they have to ruin the experience?
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"alliance/enemy formations" Snort!My lawyers have instructed me to inform you that the exclamation 'Snort!' is in fact an Intellectual Property of this Lord of the Board, and you should cease and desist using it forthwith.
If you still feel the need to express a combination of disdain and disgust, you are free to use the OGL term 'Pfeh!'.
I think I had read over on enworld that 'Pfeh!' was being pulled out of the OGL for 4e and they were going to move back to "Snort!" or even potentially back to the 1e "Bah!". ["I failed my Rod, Staff, or Wand saving throw! Bah!"] )
I'm sure your out of court settlement with WOTC will be quite substantial.
Pete
One thing that truly irrates me is the lack of time betweeb editions.
I think this will only get faster. 3e had 8 years. 4e will probably have 6 years or something - with some revision after 2 years.
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One thing that truly irrates me is the lack of time betweeb editions. I mean I played 2ed for 11 years before switching to 3rd and then 3.5 after that. So I have about 8 more years before I will even consider changing again. So unless a SWAT team with C4 cwith medical support omes to make me change, I will stay 3.5. I realize it is a buisness and they need to make money but damn why do they have to ruin the experience?I know people who started playing under 2e, REFUSED to touch 3.0, and now play nothing but 3.5...
I was the opposite.I readily picked up 3e when it released and immediately began running it. After awhile, I saw it wasn't for me and converted back to 2nd Edition.
I'm not really making a point, I'm just tired and trying to stay awake.
One thing that truly irrates me is the lack of time betweeb editions. I mean I played 2ed for 11 years before switching to 3rd and then 3.5 after that. So I have about 8 more years before I will even consider changing again. So unless a SWAT team with C4 cwith medical support omes to make me change, I will stay 3.5. I realize it is a buisness and they need to make money but damn why do they have to ruin the experience?I know people who started playing under 2e, REFUSED to touch 3.0, and now play nothing but 3.5...I was the opposite.I readily picked up 3e when it released and immediately began running it. After awhile, I saw it wasn't for me and converted back to 2nd Edition.
I'm not really making a point, I'm just tired and trying to stay awake.
I started before there was even a distinction between "basic" and "advanced" D&D. I eagerly took up AD&D when I discovered it. I also embraced 2e, and I didn't think it was ENOUGH of a revision. 3e, to me, was a godsend.
So don't try to tell me I dislike 4e just because I dislike change.
I don't have a point, either. I'm just wanting to help keep DangerDwarf awake.
One thing that truly irrates me is the lack of time betweeb editions. I mean I played 2ed for 11 years before switching to 3rd and then 3.5 after that. So I have about 8 more years before I will even consider changing again.
Eileen said:
I skipped 2nd edition. I bought the core 3 books but only started using them when they announced 3.0 in order to get back into D&D. I played something else during those years. I'll skip 4th edition because of the amount I invested in 3.5 (along with a long lost of other reasons). With 5th edition, if I liked what they were doing, I'd consider a change (doubt I would switch, but at least I'd think about it). I would have felt that there had been enough time in between editions for me and that I had gotten sufficient use out of my 3.5 books.Hiro said:
So unless a SWAT team with C4 cwith medical support omes to make me change, I will stay 3.5. I realize it is a buisness and they need to make money but damn why do they have to ruin the experience?
Eileen said:
I just saw several vans and squad cars pull up to your house and they were armed to the teeth. Time to take your books and run, it looks like the SWAT team just caught up with you!
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I will definitely stick with 3.5 for now. I'm a forgotten realms fan, and I'm just not buying into the new concept all that much. In addition, I've invested much in 3.5 corebooks and sourcebooks so unless 4.0 material is free, i won't be looking at it for a few years. (additional 3.5 material is always welcome :-)
Silly rabbit, thats what players handbook II, or III, or IV(or higher) are for. The dont have to go the .5 route when they can make changes in later players books as core....
Aw man. This poll isnt on the home page anymore. :(
Theres an average of 12 votes a day so it was still going strong.
Hmm..Does this mean Paizo has all the info they could want from it? Has a decision been made? Do they even have the rules yet?
I'll be playing 3.5 for the foreseeable future.
I represent one of those classic roll playing demographics, been playing D&D since I was 11, I'm 37 now. 8 of us meet once a week and for most of us it is a welcome diversion to our every day lives, but not a huge investment in time or money. One of the players has never played a spell caster because he never got round to reading the spells in the PHB, and another was sharing a PHB until last week when he brought one on e-bay.
With 19 years of history invested into one home grown campaign world, I shocked the group when I announced that we were starting the next campaign on a whole new world. That is how impressed I was with the content of the Pathfinder AP, I had been looking forward to playing those Goblins for months.
I will continue to subscribe to the Pathfinder AP's until I can't use them any more, if they stay as 3.5, or even a hybrid 3.75, I will follow you until the group stops playing.
Piazo have my respect, where as I am not keen on the direction that 4th Edition seems to be heading.
Do they even have the rules yet?
As of a few days ago, Paizo didn't even have the OGL yet. At this point, I'm starting to seriously believe that AP3 will be 3.5 simply because they didn't have enough time to do Paizo quality. GMMs I'd expect to see go 4E first. If alot of people cancel their GMM subscriptions, that might convince Paizo to keep the rest of their products 3.5.
...
With 19 years of history invested into one home grown campaign world, I shocked the group when I announced that we were starting the next campaign on a whole new world. That is how impressed I was with the content of the Pathfinder AP, I had been looking forward to playing those Goblins for months...
Wow, that is pretty impressive. I've DM'd using Greyhawk for the last 22+ years and am switching to Golarian too, but that's not quite the same as giving up a lifetime of work developing a homebrew world.
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Don't really see the need for a new edition. There is talk about streamlining and making the game faster, it's just going to slow down again once they make more and more splat books (and we know they will)
As it stand, I have no *major* problems with 3.5 edition. I'm really considering getting Monte Cook's experimental pdf though heh.
And I love to play some WoW, but I like to keep my wow gaming right where it is, don't need it at my gaming table (well gaming floor in this case I live in Seoul)
Considering the fact that one of our games is still running in Second Edition and most of the players are resistant to changing to 3rd I don't think that we'll even look at 4th edition for while.
Yes, same with our group. We have house rules, but otherwise: Why change a running system? BTW: No gnomes in 4th ed.? Did they get crazy at WotC?
I'm sticking with 3.5 unless Wi$ards$ of the coa$t gives back all the hundreds of bucks i invested on 3.5 DnD.
I bet you that they come up with a 4.5 edition by next year.
LOL - thats scary, I had just about the same thought. (a new manual EVERY month at $35 a piece, jeez!)
im sticking with 3.5 for awhile.
I'm going to have to change my vote now from "undecided" to "sticking with 3.5" for now. I just have so much stuff to run!
I'm not saying that 4.0 won't be great, there sounds like a lot of good stuff and interesting changes coming with this edition, but the adventures that are on my shelves already are great stuff, and they don't deserve to be chucked in the trash bin cause the new model came out.
And for the record I agree with a previous poster that by the time I get around to playing 4.0 they will have moved on to 4.5 :-)
Well, now I did read the "WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT 4TH EDITION AT D&D EXPERIENCE 2008":
"Healing gets an overhaul." Hey, they robbed the priests of their XP!
"Short and extended rests." So, after 6 hrs. everything healed, eh? How realistic is that (even in-game)? We will stick to 1 HP/8 hrs.
"Action points give you an extra action." This is no simplification but the contrary, no thanks.
"Movement is quick and easy." If a move is called a shift, it is free from attacks of opportunities? Btw, never understood this: Character is lying on the ground, enemy will hit him with his sword, character rolls out of the way, trying to not get hit. Result: He moved and therefore is automatically hit. If he had just lain there idle, there had been a chance of the sword making a wide arc and hitting only the ground next to him.
"Saving throws are straightforward." ... "Some characters have bonuses that can be applied to certain types of saving throws, and some powers grant modifications to saving throws as well." Why is this more straightforward? Isn't it just the same with another label?
"No more tracking rounds to determine when your effect ends!" OK, it is simpler, but here it is just too simple for my opinion.
threatening, flanking - well, we don't use this rules anyway.
So, we will stay with our beloved 2nd edition of AD&D.
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What edition of D&D do you currently expect to be playing at the end of 2008?
(Note: You may change your vote at any time!)
As a DM I have almost all the 3rd Edition books. Honestly, when I bought them I expected to be using them for years to come, that is why I invested in them. So I will keep using them.
I will try 4th, but even if it is great I will not give up 3rd until someone offers me fair value for my current library.
3e. Definitely. Without fail.
Unless... No. I've spent way too much money on 3e products to simply skip it and join WotC on it's suicide squad or whatever.
However, if 4e is really that good as it is supposed (propagated ?) to be then maybe I'll reconsider my decision.
Since were planning on playing the Savage Tide adventure path in a month or two and that it took us 2 years to finish the Age of Worms I'm not worried about 4e as of right now. In fact I view it as the Vista of RPG, I'll give them a year or two to work out the bugs!!!
Replace "Savage Tide" with "Shackled City" and "in a month or two" with "a year ago", but otherwise that's my situation in a nutshell.
7th. These accelerated release cycles are killing me.