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I started this request on Gamemastery's messageboard. Now, I continue it here.
First, as before, Paizo's .pdf would be much more valuable IF it were bookmarked. While I get my .pdf for free, because I purchase the hard copy, I would feel sorely underappreciated or neglected if my purchase had been the .pdf. Without bookmarks, these things are a pain to read through. Moreover, bookmarks aren't complicated to create. Further bookmarks are a great tool to incorporate for "page-flipping" within a .pdf.
Second, multiple .pdfs? Come on guys. You're better than this. Heck, I can even combine them on my own watch because of the protections you set. Perhaps I can appreciate the concern of how "heavy" one .pdf would be as opposed to many, but the dang thing comes zipped together regardless. So, that's not it. Mayhaps this is your way to allow for "page-flipping", but I'm not impressed.
Please pay some heed to your .pdfs like you do to your hardcopies.
Thanks.
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I also would prefer a single PDF, with bookmarks. It's been stated elsewhere that Paizo decided on multiple PDFs to avoid bogging down slower computers, which is understandable. If you have an older computer with less memory, I can see how you might prefer to have it split for you when you download.
I mentioned possibly making this another subscription option (maybe a checkbox for whether you want a single-file version of the PDF) and I took Gary's response to mean that it might be a possibility in the future.
For what it's worth, I have the Arcana Evolved handbook at home in PDF format; it's one file, bookmarked, and works fine in both Acrobat Reader and Adobe's "Digital Editions" software. But then, I do have a brand new laptop with lots of juice, so that's probably a factor ;)
Though I agree that would be much nicer, I am sure that Paizo has gone this rout to help stop pirates from taking the PDF and posting it on the internet for anyone to download.
While I know this isn't a permiant solution, I do feel that it will cut back on the number of people who try to do this. As much as I might not like it, I do stand behind Paizo if this was the reason for doing this.
Though I agree that would be much nicer, I am sure that Paizo has gone this rout to help stop pirates from taking the PDF and posting it on the internet for anyone to download.
While I know this isn't a permiant solution, I do feel that it will cut back on the number of people who try to do this. As much as I might not like it, I do stand behind Paizo if this was the reason for doing this.
Seconded. Their protection of their product is understood. But bookmarks at least for the main body of the AP would be nice. Keeping the pdf seperated I think is still useful as it cuts the pdf into chapters.
it's free, guys. Be thankful they are giving you a pdf at all.
Not meaning to be snotty but in regards to pirates- if there's a will there's a way. Things will be pirated anyway, why make it more awkward for the paying customers?
On the other hand, thank you Paizo for providing us with digital editions of our printed copies. Burnt Offerings looks beautiful and I'm really looking forward to reading it in the next day or so!
I would definitely prefer a single PDF to the current multiple file approach. It doesn't seem as though it would be that hard to do top tier bookmarks for each of the current sections, then do sub-sections under that, such as for the various chapters and locations in the main adventure. I would find that approach a lot more useful for me personally, although I usually do my PDF browsing on fairly capable computers and never on my PDA, so I don't know how changing it would affect those users with lower-end machines. An option for one file would be nice, though, even if the decision is to keep the default method the way it currently is.
I do realize the PDF is a 'freebie' for subscribers, but it did play at least some part in my decision to become a subscriber, so I don't consider it unimportant. And, as the first poster said, if I'd bought only the PDF version, I think I'd be a little underwhelmed. The production values are beautiful, but the features currently leave a little to be desired, and there's no way to change that with the PDF locked down as it is.
I do understand why the security features are as they are, but I do question the effectiveness of the lock down. It prevents customers from doing things they might legitimately wish to do with the files, such as combine them or add bookmarks, and I don't believe it does very much to thwart dedicated pirates. Nor do I think not releasing a PDF would do much to thwart them. Scanners are cheap, and OCR software's readily available. The final result probably wouldn't look quite as nice, but if Pathfinder proves to be popular, I believe copies will start showing up online, no matter what security measures are in place. I wish that weren't so, because I do want Paizo to continue to be successful and release new products, but I think they'll have to do so in spite of people who get their products without paying rather than because they've made such impossible.
First, as before, Paizo's .pdf would be much more valuable IF it were bookmarked.
Second, multiple .pdfs? Come on guys.
I am very excited about Pathfinder and GameMastery Modules!
The .pdf files for Pathfinder 1 (just downloaded) look to be of great quality (although I'm holding off on most of the reading because I so enjoy and am looking forward to the hard copy that I think is shipping to me soon).
However, there are two issues that need to be fixed:
1. There should be only 1 .pdf file, not a bunch. I do not nearly enjoy opening and closing .pdfs as much as flipping the (virtual) page and reading text.
2. The maps need to be either a) available without tags such as numbers and secret doors or b) able to be copied into an image editor without the tags (see a Related Post on PDF Untagged Maps Here).
Now, excuse me, but I have to go buy my alternate cover to Pathfinder #1!
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I can see the benefit of having both, actually. Vic brought up the point that a larger PDF could slow down some older systems (as not everyone has a great computer fast enough to run it, and a lot of DMs will use their laptops with PDFs, which aren't as fast).
Personally, I like that. I can have two PDFs open on my laptop, one for monsters, one for the adventure, and switch back and forth quickly between them. Even with bookmarks, I would have to click the bookmark for one, scroll down, then click the bookmark for the other, and scroll back. Seperated PDFs makes it easier to DM from, if that was my source.
As it is, I have the physical book subscription too, so I likely won't be DMing that way. I can see the benefit, though. I might suggest offering either download. A single PDF download link, and a multiple PDF download link. This way, it shouldn't bog the servers down any more (as people can pick and choose), and should satisfy members of either camp.
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Though I agree that would be much nicer, I am sure that Paizo has gone this rout to help stop pirates from taking the PDF and posting it on the internet for anyone to download.
While I know this isn't a permiant solution, I do feel that it will cut back on the number of people who try to do this. As much as I might not like it, I do stand behind Paizo if this was the reason for doing this.
The files are already watermarked, that's the best security, if someone can remove the watermark then there is a good chance they can also merge a bunch of PDFs together.
I disagree that this was done security reasons.
For the record, I also prefer a single bookmarked PDF, please make it happen!
If we're voting here, I definitely prefer the separated PDF files, but would like bookmarks, especially for the adventure and longer articles.
Separate PDFs keep file sizes manageable (though my computers are pretty beefy, so I'm not worried for myself, but others may have problems), plus as stated in another thread, as time goes by, typically when we go back to read something it'll be for a particular article, not the entire book. Having separate files really facilitates that. Heck, you could divide them into directories with all of the bestiaries in one, all of the locations in another, etc. (Hmm... I might just do that.)
Director of Sales
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Hey folks,
I have a question for you (for research purposes and all that):
Do you notice any performance difference between when you open the file containing the adventure (i.e. the biggest file) versus the other (smaller) files?
I'd like to hear from you folks with drek-hot, super-fast, monster machines, as well as folks with 98lb weakling computers (like mine at home).
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Do you notice any performance difference between when you open the file containing the adventure (i.e. the biggest file) versus the other (smaller) files?
I have a new, company-provided Dell laptop. It's not screaming fast, but it's not a second-hand, older laptop either. "Burnt Offerings" was definately slower to open and page flip than, say, the "Pathfinder Chronicles" article.
Personally, I don't care for bookmarks. This is mostly because I close the bookmarks frame in favor of the added screen real-estate (using the "fit width" option in adobe). Since I don't use them, the benefit of bookmarks is trivial to me.
Would I would like to see in the future is the ability to copy/paste text from the PDF to notepad of something similar. This has the advantage of letting me pull out some descriptive text and modify it to fit my needs. Otherwise, I have to rewrite the text, which is more time consuming.
Aside from that singular gripe, I'm very happy with the PDF(s). Excellent job, Paizoans.
-Skeld
I have a pretty bad-ass computer and there is really only a minute difference in the opening times of the big adventure .pdf compared to the smaller chunks of Pathfinder. It's not very noticeable, if at all.
Would I would like to see in the future is the ability to copy/paste text from the PDF to notepad of something similar. This has the advantage of letting me pull out some descriptive text and modify it to fit my needs. Otherwise, I have to rewrite the text, which is more time consuming.
I haven't had any trouble cutting & pasting text from my PDFs. Is that not supposed to be an activated feature? I'd find them rather dramatically less useful if we're not supposed to be able to do that.
Do you notice any performance difference between when you open the file containing the adventure (i.e. the biggest file) versus the other (smaller) files?
I'd like to hear from you folks with drek-hot, super-fast, monster machines, as well as folks with 98lb weakling computers (like mine at home).
I noticed neither a difference in opening speed (Acrobat fully closed to open file) between the adventure portion or the others, nor any appreciable difference when scrolling through the files.
Of course, my computer is powerful enough to open a personally scanned pdf that's much larger than the combined size of Pathfinder #1 in the same amount of time (@2-3 seconds), so filesize isn't a concern for me.
And I'd definitely like to have bookmarks, they make switching to different pages and sections easy, especially when you want to cross reference something.
Hey folks,
I have a question for you (for research purposes and all that):
Do you notice any performance difference between when you open the file containing the adventure (i.e. the biggest file) versus the other (smaller) files?
I'd like to hear from you folks with drek-hot, super-fast, monster machines, as well as folks with 98lb weakling computers (like mine at home).
** spoiler omitted **
My home PC which is considerably more powerful then my work PC opens the Adventure file quickly and I was actually reading it and playing a graphic intensive game at the same time.
My work PC though took a couple seconds to open and noticed a bit of 'lag' as I scrolled through while reading. But it's due to the PC being made just for work purposes. (The boss can forgive me, it's pathfinder after all!)
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No problems with opening on my personal PC or my work PC (where I do any printing I need).
Also I was taken aback at the multiple pdfs at first, but I actually prefer it because I can organize the files better that way. Make a folder for just the adventurer, one for the beastiaries, etc. Maybe that's just cause I'm slightly ADD.
No problems with opening on my personal PC or my work PC (where I do any printing I need).
Also I was taken aback at the multiple pdfs at first, but I actually prefer it because I can organize the files better that way. Make a folder for just the adventurer, one for the beastiaries, etc. Maybe that's just cause I'm slightly ADD.
That's an interesting idea. All the Pathfinder monsters in one folder, adventures in another, et cetera, would be an interesting idea. Maybe we can have the .pdf files combined into 1 file and separate as has been done already?
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No problems with opening on my personal PC or my work PC (where I do any printing I need).
Also I was taken aback at the multiple pdfs at first, but I actually prefer it because I can organize the files better that way. Make a folder for just the adventurer, one for the beastiaries, etc. Maybe that's just cause I'm slightly ADD.
I've done this, too.
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Cosmo No change in performance with any of the 10 files.
For the big vs many pdf's
If I have 1 pdf that isn't protected I can extract the pages I want and have those open when I have a need for them. If it's protected, I can't do that. 1 pdf file is better than 10.
I think the DRM is a pain and kind of insulting to me, the customer. There are things I like to do with my pdf's but can't if they are password protected. I'm not a pirate and I don't like being treated as such. I know the security features are used in business, but it ain't cool to tick off your customer.
I still like the pdf and it looks cool and it's neato keen. Thanks for hooking us up with it.
I'll make due with the protections and multiple pdf's. (but I shouldn't have too do that.)
seacrest out.
ps. The art rocks!
Consider for a moment that the file size of the ZIP was almost 4 times that of the seven swords of sin file. While seven swords was not as big page count wise it had comparatively less artwork than the Pathfinder one did. And Pathfinder has a lot of artwork! I would not be surprised that they released Pathfinder 1 this way because... well we've been awful patient waiting for it and had been confusing information on when it would ship. its possible because of how long its gonna take to ship I might not get my copy till the end of next week. Its not unlikely they may have released it as it was to facilitate getting Pathfinder 1 into our hands as quickly as possible now that GenCon is over. It'll also get us back to playing D&D instead of worrying about the next edition. I definitely like the idea of having the ability to download it both broken up and as a single PDF. I found it nice to be able to open up each section separately. Though I can see how a single PDF would have been nice too. having both options wouldn't be bad.
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Also I was taken aback at the multiple pdfs at first, but I actually prefer it because I can organize the files better that way. Make a folder for just the adventurer, one for the beastiaries, etc. Maybe that's just cause I'm slightly ADD.
I had thought about doing this and may end up doing so in the future. Once we get to the point where there have been alot of Pathfinder issues, I think this type of broken-up format and organization-by-section will become very handy.
Another idea, why not do both the bound and unbound formats? Have a complete PDF of the issue and the multiple PDFs all in the same zip file. This would satisfy each side of the debate. The only thing left for people to complain about would be the longer download times. Storage space wouldn't be such an issue since most folks would probably just delete the bound or unbound format (and keep whichever they prefer).
-Skeld
No problems with opening on my personal PC or my work PC (where I do any printing I need).
Also I was taken aback at the multiple pdfs at first, but I actually prefer it because I can organize the files better that way. Make a folder for just the adventurer, one for the beastiaries, etc. Maybe that's just cause I'm slightly ADD.
This was my feeling on the multiple PDFs as well. Long after the adventure is used I can reuse monsters, etc using my "monter manual" folder. Towns/cities, magic item, etc can also be organized in separate folders.
it's free, guys. Be thankful they are giving you a pdf at all.
Unless I'm mistaken there is an option to spend $7.99 on just the pdf. No paper copy. So to be fair some may be spending their money on this and should be able to critique their purchase.
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I'd like to hear from you folks with drek-hot, super-fast, monster machines, as well as folks with 98lb weakling computers (like mine at home).
I have a brand spanking new HP Pavilion laptop that opens any of the files about equally fast (less than a two-count). Then I tried opening multiple random files, including the Burnt Offerings adventure, the town of Sandpoint, the Pathfinder Journal, the town of Thassilon, and the Covers bit.
Then, just for good measure, I opened the Arcana Evolved PDF. Even with all the other files open, it was just as zippy, so put me down in favor of the single file Pathfinder PDF (with bookmarks, if possible) :D
I suspect the best option would be to allow either way, depending on the preference of the individual. A comment Gary made earlier in another thread makes me think that this wouldn't be too hard to pull off.
( fingers crossed )
I don't have my copy yet, but . . .
. . . half of the problem with massive PDF files clogging up your system is using bloated software like, say, Adobe Reader. It has an enormous system footprint which is very unnecessary.
I use the very small Foxit Reader 2.0, which opens on my work computer (Intel Celeron 2.53GHz, 512Mb RAM) in about two seconds, and takes about four seconds to open a 300-page PDF like my copy of Vampire: The Requiem - which is pretty graphics heavy, especially in the first few pages.
To use another example, a back issue of Dragon takes about one second to open.
It's not Paizo's job to hold the hands of customers who are using bad software! ;)
it's free, guys. Be thankful they are giving you a pdf at all.Unless I'm mistaken there is an option to spend $7.99 on just the pdf. No paper copy. So to be fair some may be spending their money on this and should be able to critique their purchase.
And indeed It looks like I was mistaken. You can purchase Gamemastery modules as PDFs for 7.99 but not Pathfinder, but I'm sure most of you already knew this. Anyway, back to lurker mode I go.
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Chief Technical Officer
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And indeed It looks like I was mistaken. You can purchase Gamemastery modules as PDFs for 7.99 but not Pathfinder, but I'm sure most of you already knew this. Anyway, back to lurker mode I go.it's free, guys. Be thankful they are giving you a pdf at all.Unless I'm mistaken there is an option to spend $7.99 on just the pdf. No paper copy. So to be fair some may be spending their money on this and should be able to critique their purchase.
Non-subscribers can purchase the PDF only after the product's retail release date—in the case of Pathfinder 1, that's August 29th. The price for the PDF will be $13.99.
Keep telling us what you think—we're listening!
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I'm glad to see Vic here.
For the record, getting .pdfs and hardcopies was a KEY selling point. So, while some of you say, "It's free, quit complaining," because it was a key factor in my subscription to both Gamemastery AND Pathfinder, I believe I have a valid position to request for more attention to be paid to the .pdfs.
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Chief Technical Officer
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. . . half of the problem with massive PDF files clogging up your system is using bloated software like, say, Adobe Reader. It has an enormous system footprint which is very unnecessary.
Adobe Reader had long been one of my least favorite pieces of software for this very reason, but Reader 8 actually delivered major improvements in this respect (and in many others), and has once again become my default PDF reader.
If you're using anything older than Reader 8, you should really take the time to download the new version. As always, it's free.
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I don't have my copy yet, but . . .
. . . half of the problem with massive PDF files clogging up your system is using bloated software like, say, Adobe Reader. It has an enormous system footprint which is very unnecessary.
I use the very small Foxit Reader 2.0,
It's not Paizo's job to hold the hands of customers who are using bad software! ;)
Holy crap!
Thanks for the recommendation. I had delays with Adobe sliding through the pages, but foxit has no problems.
Hey folks,
I have a question for you (for research purposes and all that):
Do you notice any performance difference between when you open the file containing the adventure (i.e. the biggest file) versus the other (smaller) files?
I'd like to hear from you folks with drek-hot, super-fast, monster machines, as well as folks with 98lb weakling computers (like mine at home).
** spoiler omitted **
Windows Vista Home Premium
1GB RAMPentium 3.2
Adobe Reader 8
I haven't had a problem with it (with the exception of redrawing the maps). Then again, I didn't have a problem with the monstrousity that is Ptolus either. I've always had problems with transitioning pages by scrolling (but less than usual, probably the machine and Chalk that up to Adobe). If I page down, it takes a second or two to populate the page, which I can live with.
Unfortunately, the Sandpoint map prints horribly on a black and white laser printer. The numbers are unintelligible and the writing is readable with a few seconds of looking at them.
At first, I didn't like the multiple documents. It's grown on me though. I can print of the monsters quickly without having to search for them. Bookmarks would still be nice, though.
One thing that I wasn't impressed about (I'm reading the adventure now, the "extras" were good) was the Pathfinder Chronicles font. VERY difficult to read. I had to copy and paste it into Notepad just so I could read it! If it wasn't for the PDF, I doubt I'd ever figure out the whole message from the book.
For those of you that really want a single file, google around for PDFSAM. It's not entirely intuitive, but it will knit the disparate .pdf's into a single 23.6 mb file.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I'll actually go against the majority opinion here and say that I prefer having the file chopped up. It's not a performance issue (I'm using Preview on the Mac and Foxit Reader on the PC), but rather one of convenience while playing -- I can have the Besitary open in a different window from the adventure and alt+tab back and forth during play. This worked very well for me last night when I ran the first game session of the Adventure Path.
However, I will throw in my 2¢ and shout out for bookmarks. They're tremendously useful for those of us who need them, and for those who don't, the impact on the file size and so forth is negligible.
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I love having the PDF files broken down. I have the advantage of having picked up the print version at Gencon and see how the PDF files match the print version and how handy they are the way they exist. I also like them in dungeon where I only have to open the adventure I am interested in and can print out just that adventure without trying to figure out which pages I want or don't want.
It is perfect the way it is...
I can see advantages of both, but after careful consideration I fall firmly into the "multiple files" camp. I had not considered the organizational impact of separating the individual files into categories based on type, but that is a great idea.
I would like to cast my vote for bookmarks though - especially on the larger files like the adventure. They help greatly with navigation.
Also, I have seen some slowdown, but that's probably because I was reading it on my work computer - a mighty, mighty pentium III 733.
Awesome machine. makes me jealous for one at home.
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Also, I have seen some slowdown, but that's probably because I was reading it on my work computer - a mighty, mighty pentium III 733.
I would kill to have our crappy work computers upgraded to that. Right now our lovely work computers take about 3-5 minutes to open a lowly character sheet PDF.
I prefer the multiple files PDF's personally. But in all honesty wouldn't complain either way. I'm along for the print product, the PDF's only serve as something for me to drool over as I await the real deal to arrive.
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Hey folks,
I have a question for you (for research purposes and all that):
Do you notice any performance difference between when you open the file containing the adventure (i.e. the biggest file) versus the other (smaller) files?
I'd like to hear from you folks with drek-hot, super-fast, monster machines, as well as folks with 98lb weakling computers (like mine at home).
** spoiler omitted **
There is a slight difference, but I don't mind. I am used to opening MUCH larger PDFs, like my Ptolus (80+ MB) and Arcana Evolved (20+ MB) PDFs, and even a few purchased here at paizo.com
I have yet to get it, but I would like to see bookmarks on it. As to single file or multiple file, I can see the merits of both - one file is less cluttering on your file system, whereas several have their advantage in being able to use them simultaneously and being able to sort them according to themes. In the end, sorting and opening them would probably win out in the end.
Stefan
I'll put my vote in for the multiple-files version. I was surprised to see the multiple files when I did my download, but I already see advantages in keeping everything organized as the months of PDFs accumulate.
I don't really care one way or the other about Bookmarks; I'll mostly be using the printed copy anyway.
I would like to see Paizo come up with a solution so we can buy print copies (say, of the Gamemastery adventures) from our FLGS and still get the free PDF copy. At the moment, I'm not buying any of the Gamemastery adventures because I don't want to funnel that much of my hobby spending AWAY from my local FLGS, yet I don't want to buy the modules from the FLGS and miss out on the free PDFs either. Isn't Cognitive Dissonance fun? (Truly, if Paizo solves this one, I'll keep my subscription to Pathfinder through the Paizo site, and buy pretty much everything else pathfinder-related from the local game store. So please, solve this so I can buy more of your stuff!)
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I can see advantages of both, but after careful consideration I fall firmly into the "multiple files" camp. I had not considered the organizational impact of separating the individual files into categories based on type, but that is a great idea.
I would like to cast my vote for bookmarks though - especially on the larger files like the adventure. They help greatly with navigation.
Yeah, I'm going to echo this. I have no trouble with large PDFs, but the multiple files are convenient for organization. Bookmarks, however, would be stellar.
If you have problems opening a 20meg file, it is not the fault of your old machine it is the fault of ADOBE and their bloated reader. I am running Foxit reader and the pdfs look great and I have noticed no slowing with anything I have opened in it.
So yeah, I could care less about bookmarks but "One file to rule them all..." and add a link to non-adobe pdf reader options for those with slowdown issues.
-dr