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Am I an "old gamer" or a "young gamer"? You decide!
What!?! Magic-users can NOT carry swords! get outta here, ZERO-charisma...oh, sorry--flashbacks.
I have always said that if you started playing with either the Red Box or earlier; and/or First Edition (old orange spines), then you're an 'old Gamer.'
However, when I notice two key components—you are now 24 (very young in my mind) and started playing when you were 9 (there’s a lot of years between 9 and 24)…well, I'm forced to take a tactical pause, and rethink my mindset.
I know-- I didn’t answer the question.
I’m still on pause.
I still do not understand THAC0
Ok, to explain THAC0
It stands for To-Hit-Armor-Class-Zero. That last character is a zero not an “oh”.
The older combat system had the character’s armor class beginning at 10; no armor = bare-butt naked (ok, may a shirt and some britches). Protective ratings for armor subtracted from this number (not added like 3x).
The A/C number would decline towards zero (and sometimes into the negatives). The THAC0 indicated the base number needed to roll to hit this target Zero A/C. Thus, a warrior who had a THAC0 of, say 9, would have to roll a 9 or better on the to-hit die to do damage to an opponent with and A/C of zero (10 points of protection -- or what 3x players would calculate as a 20 A/C).
This number was modified by the target’s actual A/C. So, if an opponent had a total A/C of 4 (six points of protection – roughly the equivalent of chain-and-shield -- or a 3x A/C of 16) the THAC0 of 9 was reduced further by the 4 A/C (4 points worse protection). That would leave the warrior needing an adjusted 5 or better to hit and do damage instead of 3x's 15.
Yeah, complex, but compared to the earliest 1e system, it was actually a helpful innovation that sped up most combat calculations.
Any other questions regarding THAC0?
...wisdom is a state of applied learning over time
In submission of a substitute for the Sebastian Standard, how about we try these two…
First: If you have been gaming for less than 5 years, you are a “Young” gamer.
If you have been gaming more than 5 years, but less than 15 years, you are a “Middle-Age” gamer.
If you have been gaming more than 15 years, you an “Old” gamer.
Second: Better yet, if one wants to be more precise (and use game terminology), for each full year of gaming we have under our belts, we get one “Gamer” level. Since we cannot quantify points (to say nothing about trying to split points between “player” and “DM” slots) time is the best measure of experience.
*Note: the numbers calculated below were derived from admissions by the individuals listed in their posts in this thread. I take no responsibility for the veracity of the numbers provided.*
That would make me (age 50, started age 19) a 31st level gamer
Followed by (in descending order)
Doug Sundeth (age 46, started age 13) 33rd level (relieving me of the burden of being the Uber-Fogey! *cheers and applause in background* Believe me you can have it…)
Horseflesh (age 43, started age 13) 30th level
VegeyPygmy (age 35, started age 6) 29th level
Chris P (age34, started age12) 22nd level
Grimcleaver (age32, started age 5) 27th level
Spellcrafter (age 32, started age 8) 24th level
Windnight (age25, started age 6) 19th level
Fatespinner (age 24, started age 9) would be 15th level
Frats (age 20, started age 14) 6th level
Much more clean and precise, much less subjective quanta involved, like the SS. Comments?
This is the first time I have ever been 25th level.
BTW, anyone from the original Blue Box remember when they got so cheap they took out the dice and put in "chits". That was my first version (purchase at Toys R Us) and I had to find my first "hobby store" (mostly model trains) in the mall and spend and extra five bucks to have dice.
That's me -- my first d20 was 20 small cardboard rectangles that you were supposed to draw from the box.
I'm pretty sure that makes me an old gamer.
-The Gneech
I know-- I didn’t answer the question.
I’m still on pause.
Somebody unpause Andrew; I think he's stuck.
Hm, I'm an 18th Level Gamer...and a Level 10 Vice-President!
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Are all of those that you listed, Lawgiver, uninterrupted years? I ask because I dropped out for 7ish years during 2nd edition, and started playing in 1979 (28 years) which would put me at 21st level by your calculations.
I know a bunch of the posters on these boards have mentioned dropping out for several years also.
FH
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While I haven't played D&D uninterrupted, I've played something(s) for the entire time: Rolemaster, Chivalry & Sorcery, RuneQuest, GURPS, Hero, Traveller, Space Quest, Space Opera, Aftermath, Bushido, 7th Sea, (and others). Of those, I've spent the most time with Hero System (in its various incarnations).
And that's just the RPGs.
According to Taliesins concept (nice idea, btw), I´m an Old Gamer.
According to Lawgivers Tally of years idea, I would be Level 23 - can I call myself an epic gamer, then ? :-)
Oh, and I add about 7 levels of LARPing to that. (I paused for about two years, but only in LARPing - I could not stand a year without some P&P gaming.)
I´ve been a late bloomer in gaming, I started at the age of 14 - RPGs weren´t exactly common in Germany at that time. I think it was in 1983 that the first German version of D&D (red box) appeared on the market. A the same time, another (german) RPG appeared - the first time, IIRC, that RPGs produced for the commercial market appeared in Germany.
Christmas 1984 I explicitly wished for the red box and got it, a schoolfriend of mine had introduced me to gaming in that year.
Stefan
W00T! I win the thread!
And very welcome to you…LOL!
Are all of those that you listed, Lawgiver, uninterrupted years?
While I haven't played D&D uninterrupted, I've played something(s) for the entire time: Rolemaster, Chivalry & Sorcery, RuneQuest, GURPS, Hero, Traveller, Space Quest, Space Opera, Aftermath, Bushido, 7th Sea, (and others). Of those, I've spent the most time with Hero System (in its various incarnations).
And that's just the RPGs.
Doesn’t matter. I played the Palladium system exclusively for about 7 years and have enjoyed most (if not all) of the games Doug has played. I’ve also played others. Sometimes we just need a break. Even if you’re not active, it doesn’t mean part of your mind isn’t dwelling on it, even subconsciously. In fact, that subconscious activity may be what eventually brought you back to it. Regardless, it’s a simple calculation: How old are you now minus how old were you when you started? There’s your level. Like I said, simple, concise and unencumbered with subjectives that always get in the way.
According to Lawgivers Tally of years idea, I would be Level 23 - can I call myself an epic gamer, then ? :-)
True, and folks like Doug and I would end up in the Immortal’s category.
Wohoo! …wait a minute…that means really old, doesn’t it? *sob*
What the heck, I might as well join in :o)
34 years old.
Picked up the basic D&D box (orange box w/ the blue dice) when I was 10 years old at a church rummage sale for $2.00).
Parents bought me 1E PH, DMG, MM and MM2 for Christmas that year.
Started DM-ing right out of the box, because no one else wanted to.
Upgraded (grudgingly) to 2E when it came out.
Fave settings are Gteyhawk (preferably 1E Greyhawk, rather than the Greyhawk Wars era) and Ravenloft (preferably pre-Grand Conjunction).
Pretty much never had a PC.
Very much understand THAC0, and find it a fine mechanic.
Still personally prefer 1E and 2E.
Am trying to coerce one of my players to run a 1E Monk.
I'm insane, I know :o)
You're an old gamer if you know what the d4 trick is.
You're really old if you remember playing the d4 trick.
You're too old if you laughed when playing the d4 trick on others.
I have to admit that I laughed out loud at this one even though it means I am "too old." Damn.
Don't forget that long ago Elf was a Class!
P.S. I am a 29th level gamer as per the Lawgiver scale.
Using Lawgiver's scale i'm 20th level (aged 33 started at 13)...on the cusp of epicness (as we approach my 34th birthday)! yay =p
Be Safe all.
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I myself am 39.Though, in all honesty I feel about, well 39.
I have played since times of olde 1st Edition when the funny shaped dice were new and there was not one number printed upon them. Each player had to devise weird and wonderful ways to illuminate the numbers, normally with Liquid Paper. It was a time when discussion was rife on what the very first Monster Manual monster were to be, it was a thing of great anticipation and excitement. This was a time when the Dungeon Master Guide made absolute no sense what so ever. Understanding psionics was virtually a science in itself. This time was around 1980. Understanding THAC0 was a right of passage. Dodging ill informed and inquisitive parents, worried at this new cult of AD&D was par for the course.
I have hung in the hobby for nigh on 20 or so years occasionally skipping away for real world ditties and the like. Once returning home I settled back into my old dark ways with great aplomb. The Horror and fantasy RPG games continue to hold interest, and this has stuck with no indication of diminishing at all.
Cheers
DDM (Pathfinder Charter Subscriber)
Your definatley an old gamer if -
you rolled 99% or 100% and got psionic abilities...
Doug, Lawgiver,
thank you for making me feel young at age 30... ;-)
My favorite sign to tell if you are the oldest piece of stuff left:
You actually make a extensive set of rules (complete with levels) to determine if you are an old player.
*hehehe*
Btw. how does LARP enter the equation?
Btw. how does LARP enter the equation?
Hmm... old style dual classing? No, then you could not advance in your first class anymore... Time for a House Rule, then!
Humans have the special ability to multiclass with P&P and LARP gamer classes, and can split their xp any way they want - without maximum levels. But they can raise only one level each per game year.
Stefan
...how does LARP enter the equation?
LARP is part and parcel of the experience of gaming. It’s not my thing, but there are enough that do it that it has become part of the lore. Whether it survives to be passed down like a piece of precious heritage or is relegated to just a “d4 trick” morsel of essoterica has yet to be determined.
25th level for me. Eek.
Am I an "old gamer" or a "young gamer"? You decide!What!?! Magic-users can NOT carry swords! get outta here, ZERO-charisma...oh, sorry--flashbacks.
I have always said that if you started playing with either the Red Box or earlier; and/or First Edition (old orange spines), then you're an 'old Gamer.'
However, when I notice two key components—you are now 24 (very young in my mind) and started playing when you were 9 (there’s a lot of years between 9 and 24)…well, I'm forced to take a tactical pause, and rethink my mindset.
I know-- I didn’t answer the question.
I’m still on pause.
I think that suggests a long-time, or experienced gamer. The world old seems to have a slightly different connotation. You can mine since you're nine, but at age 24 you're just not an ol' miner. The ol' miners are the guys who remember when shaft 23 was just in the planning stages, not an already abandoned death trap that hasn't been open in a decade. I don't really see as much ambitguity in the term as others... I think the tradition in the English language is consistent.
Second: Better yet, if one wants to be more precise (and use game terminology), for each full year of gaming we have under our belts, we get one “Gamer” level. Since we cannot quantify points (to say nothing about trying to split points between “player” and “DM” slots) time is the best measure of experience.
That would make me (age 50, started age 19) a 31st level gamer
Followed by (in descending order)Doug Sundeth (age 46, started age 13) 33rd level (relieving me of the burden of being the Uber-Fogey! *cheers and applause in background* Believe me you can have it…)
Horseflesh (age 43, started age 13) 30th level
VegeyPygmy (age 35, started age 6) 29th level
Chris P (age34, started age12) 22nd level
Grimcleaver (age32, started age 5) 27th level
Spellcrafter (age 32, started age 8) 24th level
Windnight (age25, started age 6) 19th level
Fatespinner (age 24, started age 9) would be 15th level
Frats (age 20, started age 14) 6th level
Age 39, started at age 6. 33rd level. There were gaps in play during the 90's but whatever. I'm climbing onto the dais with Doug and I've brought special fogey hats (disclaimer--in no way linked to the band Foghat) for us both.
By Lawgiver's scale, I'm a 5th level gamer. And, therefore, the youngest. Oh jeez.
But, that doesn't calculate the years of reading the books without ever playing. I just liked the stories and pictures.
By Lawgiver's scale, I'm a 5th level gamer. And, therefore, the youngest. Oh jeez.
But, that doesn't calculate the years of reading the books without ever playing. I just liked the stories and pictures.
Maybe you're an old reader.
I'm 27th level.
I have a letter opener of Kas.
And I have an envelope of Vecna. We are so linked.
Well, I guess I'm more tending towards the old end of the spectrum. By the scale, I'd be a 19th level gamer, a 14th level GM, and a 10th level gaming club officer.
Now my spouse, whom I met at the local gaming club when I joined it, he's definitely getting up there. He'd be a Player/GM levels 25/25 with 16 levels of game club officer. He likes to taunt the youngsters that join the group (most of which these days are young enough to be our kids) by digging out the Dragon magazine from our archives of the month they were born!
He likes to taunt the youngsters that join the group (most of which these days are young enough to be our kids) by digging out the Dragon magazine from our archives of the month they were born!
Great idea. That must be pretty neat for them. I was in the NYC and bought a Life magazine from the month and year I was born. It made for a nifty read.
Maybe you're an old reader.
I don't think that counts. :P
I mean, I sat in a car for 15 years before I ever drove one.I'm just worried about getting internet swirlies and wedgies.
I don't think that counts. :P
I mean, I sat in a car for 15 years before I ever drove one.
Maybe you're an old sitter.
I'm just worried about getting internet swirlies and wedgies.
Not to mention wet willies and the dreaded rear admiral.
Well, according to Lawgiver (and who can argue with someone named that?) I become an epic level gamer this year. Wahoo, epic feats!
Well, not as old as a lot of you for although I wanted to game when I was 16 I was pushed away as it was a "boys only" game! Couldn't find any girlfriends that would play so I just kind of eavesdropped at the sidlines for a few years. Tnen as a single mom looking for cheap entertainment I found a group that gamed and now I've been involved for 18 years.
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By Lawgiver's standard, I'm a 12th-level gamer, with a fairly long hiatus in there. By Sebastian's standard, I'm "just right," though I'd say I skew older since the hiatus I took was just around the release of 3e, and so it looked quite newfangled to me when I got back into the hobby a few years ago.
However, the standard that I actually sympathize with the most on this thread is kahoolin's. What tends to make me feel like an old gamer isn't simply that I started playing earlier than the people I game with (at least not yet). It's more that we have fundamentally different philosophies about the game. As he pointed out, the newer gamers are the ones less willing to deviate from the rules in the name of the story.
It's interesting to note, though, that by Grimcleaver's standard I fall into the "new gamer" category for very similar reasons - I'm the one who, as Grim put it, is "into making and exploring characters and telling stories that mean something and that are worth telling..." It might have to do with the fact that I came up playing White Wolf, while these newer gamers I'm talking about came up through the D&D revival of 3.5e, or it could be due to the fact that they for the most part came over from WoW.
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I know-- I didn’t answer the question.
I’m still on pause.
Somebody unpause Andrew; I think he's stuck.
Hm, I'm an 18th Level Gamer...and a Level 10 Vice-President!
...en in the end I would say you're a fairly old gamer. Whew!! Either the power timed-out, or someone hit the pause button. It seems while I was in reverie my alter ego was off brown-nosing the Pazio staff! But that's another story. I suppose a level a year would certainly make you an older if not old gamer. ;)
Nothing but fun, a super hobby, and I don't see stopping any time soon.
I could not have said it much better myself.
No matter what happens, the game's the thing.
VegeyPygmy (age 35, started age 6) 29th level
It's scary to realize that by Lawgiver's system, I'm higher level than any character I've ever played.
And to answer the "is that uninterrupted time?" question: while I dropped D&D for almost all of the 2e years, I have never quit gaming. I thank God for giving me SPI's DragonQuest to play during the Dark Times (as I call that period).
27th level, WooHoo! Oh wait, maybe that's not such a good thing on this post.(runs to the mirror to check for wrinkles)
Seriously, electrum, weapons with egos, I'm feeling very old here. And as far as the d4 trick, my brother played that on me in the way back days, thanks for the reminder, now I have to start my therapy all over again.
well, on the mouse with some books on his head; I am like a Great Wyrm as I have chainmail and certainly know the % character build and have played % for hits and all before it was converted to +1 = 5% in the d20 system.
Not sure my Lawgiver level; am 42 and been playing since about 1977 or so as the 1st DMG came out in 1978 and I had been playing for about a year now that I dig back through the fog of time. The game just didnt exist much before that outside of like the Great Lake area. That would be about right as I was in like the 8th or 9th grade when some of my friends were playing and it was a new thing then my friend Timmy got a basic boxed set for Xmas and we started playing that as it was new and something different. Ah; to be a young confused little hatchling with so much to look forward too. When I look back at all the game developments and material generated by this game and how I have a whole room and two closets full of mostly just my gaming stuff I guess I have a hoard worthy of any Ancient to Great Wyrm of D&D.
so, what level am I; am curious on Lawgivers scale.
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Wyrmling- you started playing 3.5 this year.
"You mean there were other editions?"
Very Young- You are glad 3.5 had already come out.
"Dude! the nymph has boobies!"
Young- You play 3.0 and Vampire.
"Wouldn't it be cool if the haste spell was like celerity?"
Juvenile- you wish they were still Baatezu and Tanari.
"The whole game has gone to hell now that Birthright is gone"
Yep, I'm a juvenile gamer.
…so, what level am I; am curious on Lawgivers scale.
Yeah, there are sometimes a few hiccoughs in the computation, but it really is fairly easy.
Take your current age, subtract the age you were when you first started playing. Gaps in play time, shifting to other game systems, etc., all don’t reduce this time. It’s just cut and dried total playing time.
So, for you, Vale -- Current age = 42
……………………...Starting age = 8 (maximum estimated credit)
………………………Gamer level = 34
Which…I believe, actually breaks the record.
Doug Sundeth – 33rd level
Ragnarock Raider – 33rd level
Zylphryx – 33rd level
The Jade – 33rd level
And these are just the people admitting to it…lol!
Congrats, you are now the Uber-Fogey and can claim your hat, T-shirt, mug, and gold-plated watch from Doug and the rest. Good luck.
Heh, apparently I'm level 18 and the hubby is level 34. :O
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…so, what level am I; am curious on Lawgivers scale.Yeah, there are sometimes a few hiccoughs in the computation, but it really is fairly easy.
Take your current age, subtract the age you were when you first started playing. Gaps in play time, shifting to other game systems, etc., all don’t reduce this time. It’s just cut and dried total playing time.
So, for you, Vale -- Current age = 42
……………………...Starting age = 8 (maximum estimated credit)
………………………Gamer level = 34
Note that he didn't say age 8, he said 8th or 9th grade:
Not sure my Lawgiver level; am 42 and been playing since about 1977 or so as the 1st DMG came out in 1978 and I had been playing for about a year now that I dig back through the fog of time. The game just didnt exist much before that outside of like the Great Lake area. That would be about right as I was in like the 8th or 9th grade...
'77 would be 30th level.
