The only time I had to be around guys like that was in a band I was in back in 1990-91. Since then I find it easy to steer clear of people who think gas is inherently funny. Mind you, there are framing situations for that occurence which can be as funny as anything out there. Steve, my bass player, was driving me from rehearsal and warned me trouble was brewing. I made him get out of the car on the side of the highway and told him I'd meet him a hundred feet up ahead. I got in the driver's seat and he actually complied apologetically, which was fortunate, because his methanous stink was the enemy of mine shaft canaries everywhere.
I'm pretty clear with people I meet about 'the rules.' And not pasting the inside of my lungs with their colon crumbed winds is one of them. May seem severe to some but I explain myself clearly and it's been working out just fine.
That's not to say that I don't enjoy base humor, because I enjoy almost all forms of humor, with the exception of Stella and most of what plays on SNL.
"Hey look! We're singing in six consecutive skits! No jokes, just songs you know! We're not frustrated wannabee popstars! NO! WE'RE FUNNY! THIS IS FUNNY!"
And the audience laughs and laughs... and I shrink and shrink..
Well definitely not all guys are like that. There's one group that's a little more classy with 3 girls playing (the DM's daughter and 2 others) so it can get innuendo-ish but doesn't resort to farting the loudest.
The other group I would play in was usually all guys, and that group was definitely more crude. Farting, taking a dump and how big, long etc. it was. I was the burper. I had some good ones mwahaha.
I did say something about not all guys being like that. But I guess I am! lol.
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See, what happens is we get to the point where we realize that crap isn't working. So then we have what's called guy's night, where we can do that crap and not have to take any crap for it. It's necessary to our psyche; without it we become sick and pale. Our hair gets scraggly and mangy. It's like meat to a dog.
And I know you females have your subjects, and no, we don't want to hear about any of that crap either. Which I guess it's not really crap per se, to females it's important and I understand that, but to me it's crap I don't want to hear. So you get your girl friends together and talk about that stuff.
But I'm figuring these guys aren't too experienced, because the shrewd way to play it is, "hey we got this female playing D&D with us. Let's not fart in front of her; then we can maybe party with her and her friends."
And we can't help it. We think farting is funny. My son is 3 and he all ready gets it. I didn't teach him that.
I'd suggest reading some sociological studies that have been conducted on gender and gaming. They can provide a framework by which both genders can understand why behavior is forumlated for tabletop gaming and thus, can appropriately assess normative situations. If you're interested, let me know and i'll post a list of suggested readings here...
As ever,
ACE
Hey Zeus Creesto, man.
So girls let me know if you have any of these problems or others...It would be nice to know I'm not the only one...
ciao
I am the only female in my gaming group (and the DM, so I guess I have some clout if I say I don't like something), and although I haven't encountered the farting/belching stuff, I do notice that sometimes when I say things that would get belly laughs if the guys said them, there's only a sort of a stunned silence. I've had to learn to watch my mouth.
--Fang
Yeah. Me too. Maybe if I knew what a normative situation was, I could assess it, and I wouldn't have all these problems.If you're interested, let me know and i'll post a list of suggested readings here...
As ever,
ACECall.
Let's see 'em.
M'kay...headed to the gym after work and i'll pull my literature from the shelves when i get home tonight!
As ever,
ACE
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... Since then I find it easy to steer clear of people who think gas is inherently funny. ...
Oh man...and I was hoping we could be friends.
Actually, our group is more or less well behaved, mostly. But I can guar-own-tee if a lady were to join our band of players, this bunch of southern boys would behave.
And we can't help it. We think farting is funny. My son is 3 and he all ready gets it. I didn't teach him that.
It's a genetic disorder. Goes with the Y chromosome.
--Fang
Fortunately our group is pretty polite about stuff like that. I mean we occasionally fart or burp or whatever (pizza + soda) but we usually appologize and are politely ignored wherever possible. Nobody laughs. This is not to say that occasionally horrendously off color comments aren't made in the course of gameplay--however even these are usually accidental (at least at first) and largely the result of an ill-strung series of words. You'd be suprized what kinds of awful mental images can be burned into the brains of unsuspecting players completely unintentionally when innocent things are said in totally wrong ways!
I think the group dynamic changes a lot when people in the group are either in a relationship or not. I remember my pre-relationship gaming days and it is a lot different that it is now in my group. There was the inevitable "trawling" if someone was new and unattached, but now that everybody in my group has settled with somebody, things are a lot calmer, I guess.
All my players in my group I've known for a while, most of them ten years. That being said, you can get away with a lot of social faux pas that you probably wouldn't do with a new group or newer friends.
you can get away with a lot of social faux pas that you probably wouldn't do with a new group or newer friends.
Absolutely. Our group has been gaming together for about seven years now, and there's not a whole lot you can't say.
--Fang (watching my mouth)
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... Since then I find it easy to steer clear of people who think gas is inherently funny. ...Oh man...and I was hoping we could be friends.
Actually, our group is more or less well behaved, mostly. But I can guar-own-tee if a lady were to join our band of players, this bunch of southern boys would behave.
Well there's gas for its own sake funny, and then there's gas because you slipped a guy a horse laxative and he's convinced he has ebola funny. Ya know. :)
I see what you're saying about restricting free emissions around ladyfolk. Seems like a bit of a rude mating call and I wouldn't want to meet the maiden who answers it.
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I think the group dynamic changes a lot when people in the group are either in a relationship or not.
All my players in my group I've known for a while, most of them ten years. That being said, you can get away with a lot of social faux pas that you probably wouldn't do with a new group or newer friends.
So Lil has reached the "Dutch Oven" stage of friendly gaming.
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I am the only female in my gaming group (and the DM, so I guess I have some clout if I say I don't like something), and although I haven't encountered the farting/belching stuff, I do notice that sometimes when I say things that would get belly laughs if the guys said them, there's only a sort of a stunned silence. I've had to learn to watch my mouth.
It's always possible that you're just not funny. JK!!!
I've seen that happen many times before. I don't know why some guys have that reaction. Me and mines always be liking funny women. The only time I couldn't appreciate women telling dirty jokes when it was coming from my mother immediately after I turned 18. It's like she'd been saving them up.
"Therapy? Anyone?"
The only time I couldn't appreciate women telling dirty jokes when it was coming from my mother immediately after I turned 18. It's like she'd been saving them up.
"Therapy? Anyone?"
Yeah, some things just don't work coming from Mom...First time I heard my mom swear it was "Oh, s***! I've dropped me knickers down the loo!" Didn't know my mother knew such language!
The only time I couldn't appreciate women telling dirty jokes when it was coming from my mother immediately after I turned 18. It's like she'd been saving them up.
"Therapy? Anyone?"
THAT is funny!
Anyone notice the overwhelming male presence (myself included) on this thread aimed at women? Just an observation. Are we all out defending our honor or some such like that?
Fart and pee jokes? Man, that's nothing compared with the utterly game-derailing, mood breaking plumes of perverse ramblings that rolled across my table as recently as a year ago. Five high school guys together at two in the morning has some odd results. Then again, I'm sure most people here know what I'm talking about. Anyway, I couldn't help but laugh, but that was because of the absolutely insane faces and sounds the main perpetrator of these bizarre stories was fond of making. After the laughter was over, I'd generally just get bored waiting for it to end so we could move on to the next round. And to think I wondered why our combats took so damned long!
We might as well have had a girl present, however, due to the insane number of interruptions from calls by the aforementioned guy's girlfriend. How did we ever get anything done?
Oh, yeah, we almost didn't.
My gaming group consists of three women and two men, not including the DM (me or one of the other aforementioned men), so we have a 50/50 split at the table. Two new potential recruits to our game are both female--one old school gamer and a newbie.
We brought the newbie over to watch a gaming session a few weeks ago and one of the males at our table accidentally farted. Very embarassing, but funny. She says we didn't drive her off and she will start playing when we start the STAP, but we'll see.
The three women in my gaming group consist of my wife, my sister-in-law and a longtime friend. Yes, we sometimes fart, yes we sometimes belch, yes we tell extremely crude jokes and ALL the females in the group participate. Sometimes one of them will try to pretend they are disgusted and we try to improve for a while, but only for a while.
Familiarity breeds contempt, I guess. Last year we had another female player in the group, who quit to get married (priorities?) and we didn't know her that well and we pretty much behaved better regarding the bodily noises, but the crude jokes are such an integral part of our D&D experience that there would be no way to stop them (nor would I want to, it's part of the gaming experience). Our crude jokes are usually not too blatantly vulgar because we have so many kids around, but there's a lot of innuendo and "read-between-the-lines" type stuff.
The excrement humor was typical when I was 15-17. However, that doesn't mean we weren't crude at all. It just became less frequent. They still mercilessly mock some of the names of NPCs (Shukak became Penis Sandals to my players in AOW, and I won't even get into Ekaym Smallcask).
I saw that the next time they start making fart jokes, begin loudly proclaiming "girl issues". That'll shut them up.
I saw that the next time they start making fart jokes, begin loudly proclaiming "girl issues". That'll shut them up.
That wouldn't work at our table.
And we can't help it. We think farting is funny. My son is 3 and he all ready gets it. I didn't teach him that.
Yep, although my son's been around me enough to have probably learned by association, particularly when no one else is around.
Firstly, i'd recommend that any player interested in RPG theory should pick up what is considered by many as the touchstone text onthe subject: Fine, Gary Allen: Shared Fantasy: Role-Playing Games as Social Worlds, Chicago, University of Chicago Press, 1983. This text is one of the first published, comprehensive, sociological studies on RPGs and inspired base theories on how these games are collectively constructed in a group setting. You will find in the bibilography of most of the following publications on the subject that they will be citing this key text.
Now, on to the point. The crux of the issue at hand has to do with gender roles, gender identity, and the social construction of gender (normalcy). These three topics are collectively studied in Gender Studies fields, and in this instance, is a co-contributor to the question (the intersection of gender studies and the subculture of RPGs). Some of these you'll be able to find at places like Amazon and others you'll probably need access to a University database or something. Below please find a list of publications that specifically address the first poster's questions about the relationships of men and women in a collective RPG setting (in no particular order):
1. Mackay D: The Fantasy Role-Playing Game: A New Performing Art, Jefferson, NC, McFarland, 2001.
2. Waskul D, Lust M: "Role-Playing and Playing Roles: The Person, Player, and Persona in Fantasy Role Playing." Symbolic Interaction 27:333-356.
3. Wilson RR: In Palamede's Shadow: Exploations in Play, Game, and Narrative Theory, Boston, Northeastern University Press, 1990.
4. Nephew M: "Playing with Identity: Unconsious Desire and Role-Playing Games." In Williams JP, Hendricks SQ, Winkler WK: Gaming as Culture: Essays on Reality, Identity, and Experiance in Fantasy Games, Jefferson, NC, McFarland, 2006.*** (This one is an excellent resource BTW)
5. Schut, K: "Desktop Conquistadors: Negotiating American Manhood in the Digital Fantasy Role-Playing Game" In Williams JP, Hendricks SQ, Winkler WK: Gaming as Culture: Essays on Reality, Identity, and Experiance in Fantasy Games, Jefferson, NC, McFarland, 2006.
The above five are either from texts or photocopies that i currently have from grad school research and i could pull additional resources from these bibliographies if you like, but these are the ones that i can recommend. I'd suggest reading these selections to get an idea of what can be considered normative RPGming gendered behavior and the provided reasons to flesh out the theory. It would take me quite a while to put together an essay on the topic to cover questions...but...as it's something that i enjoy doing, maybe i'll just do it and post it here!
Stay tuned...
AS ever,
ACE
Below please find a list...
No! I will not find a list! :-)
Seriously though, I'm pretty... amazed, I suppose?, that there's been this kind of work done.
Hurray?
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Yep, although my son's been around me enough to have probably learned by association, particularly when no one else is around.
And we can't help it. We think farting is funny. My son is 3 and he all ready gets it. I didn't teach him that.
I remember I was at karate in high school, and we had to meditate for 5 minutes at the end. Silence...then... Somebody farted. Then somebody snickered. Then more people snickered.
It was zen as all hell.
Anyone notice the overwhelming male presence (myself included) on this thread aimed at women? Just an observation. Are we all out defending our honor or some such like that?
I think it's more likely that opinionated men make up the majority on this here forum. Questions about lady issues? WE'LL FIELD IT!
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Yep, although my son's been around me enough to have probably learned by association, particularly when no one else is around.
And we can't help it. We think farting is funny. My son is 3 and he all ready gets it. I didn't teach him that.
I remember I was at karate in high school, and we had to meditate for 5 minutes at the end. Silence...then... Somebody farted. Then somebody snickered. Then more people snickered.
It was zen as all hell.
We didn't do that in my dojo very often. If we did we had to do frog walks until we couldn't do anymore. My Sa-bum-nim was a very tough customer (although I caught him snickering more than once as we were frog-walking around the dojo for the 10th or so time). Could be why I used to leg-press over 900 lbs. at one point.
FH (his tree-trunk thighs, and well-honed calves)
My Sa-bum-nim was a very tough customer (although I caught him snickering more than once as we were frog-walking around the dojo for the 10th or so time). Could be why I used to leg-press over 900 lbs. at one point.
FH (his tree-trunk thighs, and well-honed calves)
How perfect this goes back to part of the main topic: flatulence.
In the gym when those huge chicken and broccoli chowing dudes get on the leg press, one of them invariably balloon lungs dem shorts. You laugh. You have no choice. Not because of the gas but because of your sympathy for their humiliation. They never seem to share your amusement, but then they were the ones who scared everyone in the gym mid-lift.
Yeah, but I didn't laugh. I was sitting on my lotus petal in a sea of oblivion. That's how I get, man. Not even a good fart moves me.
Meditation in class for me was sitting there with my eyes closed wondering why nothing was happening. Got a bit dozy but I daydream and analyze all day long. Closing my eyes never took me someplace new--except for before sleep when the visuals seem far beyond my talent for conception.
I wish I could take mental snapshots. One of you geniuses invent that, will you?
The ladies in my gaming group don't partake of internet gaming discussions because they think that's just dorky as hell. They post on my campaign log, but that's about it. My wife says she has no interest in D&D except to play and kill things with dice.
I knew I was going to marry her when we played AD&D nearly ten years ago and her wizard flew over some orc barracks, wizardlocked the doors and then cast cloudkill through the chimney....and got a ton of enjoyment out of it...then felt a little guilty.
(Her charm, good looks and wonderful personality had nothing to do with my decision to ask her to marry me, I swear...it was the orc cloudkill thing....yeah, that's it ;)
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I knew I was going to marry her when we played AD&D nearly ten years ago and her wizard flew over some orc barracks, wizardlocked the doors and then cast cloudkill through the chimney....and got a ton of enjoyment out of it...then felt a little guilty.
(Her charm, good looks and wonderful personality had nothing to do with my decision to ask her to marry me, I swear...it was the orc cloudkill thing....yeah, that's it ;)
LOL! I felt the same way about meeting my sweetie. We were playing Battletech (tabletop) and his mech was on the verge of blowing up due to some serious damage. He chose to unload on his opponent - alpha strike, baby!
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*lol*
This thread shows what a minority women unfortunately still are...
I DM my group for about five years. Some teenagerish jokes, no farting, no belching. The only thing coming to my mind was that in my first adventure two players wanted to test the brothels of the town they were in. :p
Recently a woman joined our group: some pranks in the start (but only by the guy who invited her into our group), that's it.
Last year I joined a different group (playing for the first time in ages!): Two women, rest of us male. One guy can't stop himself from belching, some jokes, nothing serious or offending, though.
Greetings,
Günther
Logos thank you, for a while there I thought all of you people here gone elitistic and discriminating...
Yes, the "level" of fart jokes and "simple" humor may be more common in some groups than others, but in the end we're all the same. Who's to say anyones right or wrong when these social situations occur.
"Mind you but I find your farting disturbing"
haha
"Mind you, but if you've ever had gas gathering and you've felt the need to release it..."
I mean seriously, I've never ever told someone who farted or made a fart-joke off, It's natural and it happens. It's part of being human. C'mon...
And having this discussion based on gender in first place is for me just insane, maybe it's because I'm from Sweden, I don't know, but maybe we are less sexistic, and maybe I am being prejudice right now, I dont know...
"I played in a group like "THAT" in the early 90's" How old we're you "guys" then? :P
EDIT: I'm only asking that because age matters.
1. People without siblings tend to be dominating but with social skills that develops much later in life.
2. A 14 fourteen y/o or 16 y/o is less comfortable being "themselves" around a group of people than a 20 y/o, for example.
3. This discussion is stupid, yes.
Why are fart jokes, poop jokes, pee jokes and sex jokes almost always funny? Because everyone does it, so everyone can relate. Discussing Proust over a fluted glass of brandy gets old really fast. Especially when you get to the part where he writes for three pages about the way a particular tone of orange in a Vermeer painting makes him feel.
Honestly, if more women scratched their behinds, farted and burped in public and society supported this, the world would likely take on the appearance of barbarism, but ultimately become more civilized. And that's the only way this will happen, because men are not giving up their fart jokes and pissing contests. And yes, I have been elected as the emissary for all males everywhere. Ever. What, you missed the vote? Gotta check those Val-Pak coupons you get in the mail. Never know when you'll not only discover an important vote, but you'll also get a free wax treatment at the new car wash in town.
Why are fart jokes, poop jokes, pee jokes and sex jokes almost always funny? Because everyone does it, so everyone can relate. Discussing Proust over a fluted glass of brandy gets old really fast. Especially when you get to the part where he writes for three pages about the way a particular tone of orange in a Vermeer painting makes him feel.
Well you have to keep in mind that they got paid by the nunber of words... More pages, more money...
Ok ok im lost......let me get this straight....girl's fart!!??
When the HELL did that happen??!!
Ok, among my friends, including my gaming group farting and such happens there might be a jokey comment (one friend of mine does fart quite a deal and always does bring attention to the fact...). Well, that happens (and yes, I fart too).
Otherwise bodily functions are not a popular topic of discussion.
I have also been listening to men telling "dirty" jokes and indeed when that gets annoying best response is to start to tell your own jokes (works best if there is another woman to joke with...). Trust me, I know some very risque material...
One wonders what the ages of your players are who do all this sophmoric action... This has never been a topic at my game table though Orkspeak uses the quiet it word in every sentence as an affection; hehe one player, a big tuff warrior, tried using the word pooh to a group of Orks and got heckled by the party and ribbed continuously; but that is about it. We are a pretty civil group; though, one does let fly now and again, but with very little comment and most peeps try to leave the room first; its dragging it back in that might illicite some response. If you need some potent gasious counterattacks hehe I can recommend pickled eggs and beer; a deadly combination. If the sort of thing that you suggest went on; the three or so girls in my game would let us hear it and I doubt my wife would let them peeps back in the house and I would get a neverending lecture about role modeling and sheesh; ect.