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Yeah, I hate warforged, they ... don’t fit the genre ... they’ve been done to death
If they don't fit the genre, why or how have they been done to death? Now elves...they haven't been done to death, right?
... they’re game breaking, ... and are really weak for constructs
They're "game breaking" (too powerful) AND too weak? Not sure how this works.
I'm with Aubrey on this one. Warforged are interesting and have a lot of potential. Most people that I have seen/heard that don't like them are (largely) going off of false assumptions.
Ok, what I don't get are these people who seem to feel the need to get on their high-horse and talk about how awful warforged are. Why? What is the ultimate goal? This is what it feels like to me --
Let's say that you like McDonald's and eat there at least once a week. You have two or three different sandwiches that you really like and order often. Suddenly they come out with the McRib sandwich. They haven't gotten rid of anything else, they just added one more item to their menu. Suddenly your reaction is "What the #$%^& is this? What a stupid concept. Sandwiches are meant to be on ROUND buns, not this oval crap. And what kind of meat is that supposed to be? It just isn't natural. Their just trying to cover it up with all that sauce. Blah, Blah, Blah..." Of course you haven't actually tried it yet -- it just looks disgusting or wrong or whatever. And of course you are now telling everyone that you see just how bad the McRib sandwich is. You look it up on the internet and after some digging you find someone else that seems to share your feelings and now you feel justified. You don't feel like you are saving anyone from the McRib plague, you are just voicing your opinion. The sandwiches that you like are still there and are just the same as always. You still eat there. You're just mad that they added one more item to the menu. And for some reason, this seems to bother you more than the war in Iraq.
That's what it looks like to me.
If you don't like warforged, don't "order it". Don't include them in your campaign. It seems rather simple to me. It shouldn't affect you more than that.
Of course the other thing that bothers me is justifying your position by saying that warforged are intelligent robots that belong in Star Wars, while Inevitables are intelligent robots that belong in fantasy -- because THAT makes "sense" without any further justification.
Personally, I feel that the Volodni and the Taer are just as bad if not worse than the warforged, but I don't hear a lot of complaints about them.
Ok, what I don't get are these people who seem to feel the need to get on their high-horse and talk about how awful warforged are. Why?
I don't know about everybody else but for me - because its a "rant" thread ;-)
Director of Sales
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Actually, you take a huge, messy sandwich into your hands when you eat a McRib.
Huge, messy... and tasty!
MMMM... Synthetic meat-protein drizzled in artificial barbecue-like sauce-substance..... AAAGhghahahaahaaaahhhhaaaaa......
*drools*
"Try my new Krusty Ribwich.. mmmmm! I don't mind the taste!"
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Mmmm...McRibbb
*envisions a new zombie movie where all the zombies moan 'Riiibsss...' instead of 'Braiiinssss...'*
Then, for the twist ending, the heroes discover that the mindless undead they've been shooting in the head at every turn are actually just throngs of hungry people who are completely baffled at the fact that the McRib is no longer on the menu at McDonalds!
On a whole new topic of hatred: Paladins. I hate em'. I don't want goody two shoes running around telling me (I usually play a halfling rogue when I'm not DMing) what to do. No thank you I don't want to know why what I'm doing is evil. You don't like someone who steals for a living and stabs people in the back? Tough. Do I want goody two shoes to sign the party up to save a village at no cost just because its the 'right thing to do'? No. I'm in it for profit and adventure, not being a hero.
The thing I don't really like about Paladins is that in my mind they cross over to much with clerics concept-wise. I remember reading that the cleric archetype is meant to represent knights Hospitaller/Templar types, holy warriors in other words. So what's a paladin? Give a cleric a sword and you pretty much have a paladin. I mean there are differences, sure, but not enough in my mind to justify a whole base class. And what's with paladins being holier than clerics?
That said, one of the most memorable PCs I ever DMd for was a paladin, done right all those restrictions can lead to great gaming.
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Yeah, I hate warforged, they ... don’t fit the genre ... they’ve been done to deathIf they don't fit the genre, why or how have they been done to death? Now elves...they haven't been done to death, right?
... they’re game breaking, ... and are really weak for constructsThey're "game breaking" (too powerful) AND too weak? Not sure how this works.
Dude, try reading my post again, but this time assume I'm not a total moron. Go on, read it all, read it carefully.
There. Did you pick up the subtle sarcasm and irony that time? Personally I didnt think it was that subtle myself, but I guess thats the problem with communicating via a written medium with people who don't know you.
In actual fact I like warforged. I think they have just as much validity in this game as elves, or dragons, or golems or anything else. I've never played a warforged character, but I like the idea of them, I think they fit the Eberron setting (which I also like) extremely well, and wouldn't be totally out of place in a "generic" D&D game either (perhaps with a different background). And for the record I neither consider them too powerful nor too weak, but I have seen both those arguements used against them at different times. I was attempting to use some of the arguements Ive seen posted against them on these boards and show that they're often kind of contradictory or just ... not well thought out.
Yep, you got robots in Star Wars ... which as most purists would tell you actually is fantasy NOT science fiction. The prototypical flesh golem, Frankenstein's monster features in an early science fiction novel and yet is seen as an acceptable member of the fantasy genre.
And all those other examples I gave, of other races that I really love, and make a lot of sense? Well, I wasn't trying to say that I actually don't like them, I was trying to present an arguement (yes, I know, couched in that obviously too subtle sarcasm) that many of these other examples, which are seen as perfectly acceptable in most games, and for the most part don't get the same sort of hate mail that warforged do, could well be subjected to the same sort of arguements.
But I do agree with you're mcRib arguement - if one really doesn't like warforged (and you present some pretty reasonable analogies as to maybe why people dont like them) - then don't order them!
So to rant - I hate it when people assume I'm stupid or unreasonably prejudiced (and I doubt there are many forms of prejudice which could be called reasonable), just because I don't tow the party line, or choose to express myself differently.
But don't worry Moff Rimmer - with your name, how could I stay mad at you?
You take your life into your hands when you eat a McRib.Actually, you take a huge, messy sandwich into your hands when you eat a McRib.
The McRib should not be offered as a standard sandwich - it should only be orderable asa part of a prestige lunch.
Mabye the prerequisite could be a death wish. And to qualify this as a rant I would just like to say that I hate McDonalds. I hate it from their retarded mascot to their disgusting greasy fries. I hate that when you order one of their crappy lunches you are pestered by an under paid person who repeatedly askes you if you want to super size the revolting, arterie clogging meal that they are selling you. I hate their annoying commercials too. Come to it I hate Carles Junior and Burger King too.
I hate warforged. I think they are stupid and dumb and dumbstupid.
I think they smell like do-do.
For a logical argument/addmission they are just not something I like as a matter of personal taste, look for it in a thread without rant in the title.
To my fellow robo-rebels I say, libel on my bretherin! May the sting of out exclimation points and all capitol typing slice through their armor plated skin things and pierce their kind-of-cyborg-not-quite-a-soul-but-close-enough-to-be-ressurected-doohicky !
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Mabye the prerequisite could be a death wish. And to qualify this as a rant I would just like to say that I hate McDonalds. I hate it from their retarded mascot to their disgusting greasy fries. I hate that when you order one of their crappy lunches you are pestered by an under paid person who repeatedly askes you if you want to super size the revolting, arterie clogging meal that they are selling you. I hate their annoying commercials too. Come to it I hate Carles Junior and Burger King too.
I'll have to disagree with you on that one Arctaris, but for different reasons. I love McDonalds because it is one of those things you can find everyhwere: England, Europe, Russia, Japan...they're all over the place. Ray Crock should be named one of the patron saints of the American economy, right up their with Henry Ford. At the McDonalds in Yokosuka, Japan (on the Navy base) the service is immpecable.
As for the food, the only thing I ever eat from McDonalds is Chicken (if you want to call it that) McNuggets. What can I say, those little things bring back fond memories of my childhood (which is when they first came out).
But hey, McDonalds is kinda like war-forged (McWar-forged?)- if you don't like it, don't buy it.
As I said above, there isn't a Lawful Good manual out there.
They tried. Try looking at the book of exalted deeds. By this books standard your Paladin in queston would not even have the chance to poison the baddie. According to that book, even if commiting a small eveil would result in a far greater good (say torturing someone for information to keep a town from being destroyed) then the good action is to let the town die. Paladins would not beable to make this choice at all since their point of view states that when good deeds require evil means any character serious about their good alignment could not resort to them.
That and poisons are evil because they cause undue suffering while dealing ability damage. In fact the book explicitly states that the only poisons suiable for use of good PCs is oil of taggit and drow knockout poison. They then go on to list "ravages and afflictions" poisons and diseases that only work on evil creature and poison immunity can not stop. Thes are acceptable even thogh they seem to cause just as much suffering and the chapter above dealt with evil means (painful poison) does not justify good ends (punishing/destroying evil creatures).
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Hi Guys! Great thread! This is my first post on this forum, and I look forward to being bashed for my views...
I love paladins! The very first character I played (back in the early 80s - yes, I'm old) was a paladin. But they're not for everyone, and if not played right, can really hinder a party.
I think the key to playing a good paladin rests with the tenets presented in their patron deity. The teachings of the deity should influence the philosophy and morality of the paladin, just like they do for clerics. Not all LG deities have the same outlook on Lawful Good, so not all paladins will have the same views, either.
In all cases, before deciding to play a paladin, you should really look at the makeup of your party to see if a paladin would help or hinder the party's overall makeup. If you will be joining a predominantly Neutral group, a LG paladin may not be for you. However, if the party is at least 50% good aligned, a paladin may be a good choice.
A paladin is not always a stick in the mud.
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The McRib should not be offered as a standard sandwich - it should only be orderable asa part of a prestige lunch.You take your life into your hands when you eat a McRib.Actually, you take a huge, messy sandwich into your hands when you eat a McRib.
For like some bugbear Thrall of Zuggtmoy, who invented the McRib. It's not fit swill for a dog.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Hey look, a rant:
Every DM runs into problems with players from time to time. Some people have too many powergamers, some people have players who are unwilling to commit, some have players who roleplay poorly or are constantly off-topic or out-of-character.
My problem: I have a player who doesn't play. Not "doesn't show up for game on time" or "doesn't roleplay with the group" I mean DOESN'T F$#$ING PLAY. He sits there like a mushroom on a log the whole time, never speaking unless spoken to and does not contribute anything to the game except for the fact that he's playing a cleric and keeping people alive occasionally (but only when directly called upon for healing).
I've tried different approaches with this guy. I've tried presenting situations that should rile his character into some kind of action. I've tried talking to him. I've tried working with him on character backstory/motivation. I've tried everything short of forcefully severing him from the group and making him go solo for awhile (which I think might be the next step).
I really hate being stuck in this situation because the guy's complete lack of apparent interest and activity is really prompting me to just kick him out and NPC his character. But, I can't kick him out because his girlfriend is one of my two best players!!!! Argh! He's only made it this far because of the 'lesser of two evils' rule. I'd rather have him sitting at the table as a non-entity and have his girlfriend continue to enrich the gaming experience for everyone than get rid of both of them (which might very well be what would happen if I kicked him).
I'm really lucky that he's not actively disruptive. He comes to the table, sits down, and watches everyone else roleplay while sipping on his Pepsi and waiting for me to directly ask him "What are you doing now?" His most common response is "Uhhh..... (excruciatingly long pause).... I guess I heal him."
He seems to be incapable of making up his character's mind. In normal situations (i.e. non-combat scenarios) he's just quietly sitting there, following the party around. If I'm describing a city scene where beggars are lying in the streets, begging for charity and mercy, the NEUTRAL GOOD CLERIC WITH THE GOOD AND HEALING DOMAINS just nods along and keeps going. I suppose I could strip his powers for such acts and make him seek atonement, but he probably wouldn't and he'd just leave the game eventually. This is an actual scenario that happened:
DM: "You see a couple of skeletons leaning up against the opposite wall. It looks like they've been there for a long time because of the cobwebs covering their bones."
Cleric Player: "..."
DM: "The rest of the room is largely empty except for a couple of cupboards over on the opposite side of the room against the wall. The cupboards do not seem to be as dusty as the rest of the room, indicating that perhaps they've been used recently."
CP: "..."
DM: "You're in the doorway to this room. What are you doing?"
CP: "...uh-huh." *nod*
DM: "......well?"
CP: "...hmm... I dunno. I'm just, you know, standing there, looking at these guys." *gestures to other players*
DM: *sigh*
No matter WHAT the situation is, this ALWAYS happens. ALL THE TIME. I'm not looking for advice to fix this situation, I've already given up hope on that front. I just needed to post my frustration in the rant thread.
Ah, good to see the ole rant thread up and running strong again! How it makes the cockles of my heart warm (and remember what those are!).
Fatespinner, the only logical choice facing you is to try and devise some real-life situation to cause the girl to break up with this slug. Put crystal meth in his car or something, along with a note to the effect of, "I'm so addicted to crystal meth, and I love it, even more than my girlfriend, who is an excellent roleplayer and the only reason I haven't been kicked out of my D&D group, because god knows I suck at every facet of the game and leave everyone around me perplexed as to why I'm even there."
It's foolproof!
Hi Guys! Great thread! This is my first post on this forum, and I look forward to being bashed for my views...
I love paladins! The very first character I played (back in the early 80s - yes, I'm old) was a paladin. But they're not for everyone, and if not played right, can really hinder a party.
I think the key to playing a good paladin rests with the tenets presented in their patron deity. The teachings of the deity should influence the philosophy and morality of the paladin, just like they do for clerics. Not all LG deities have the same outlook on Lawful Good, so not all paladins will have the same views, either.
In all cases, before deciding to play a paladin, you should really look at the makeup of your party to see if a paladin would help or hinder the party's overall makeup. If you will be joining a predominantly Neutral group, a LG paladin may not be for you. However, if the party is at least 50% good aligned, a paladin may be a good choice.
A paladin is not always a stick in the mud.
Thank you!
Saern,
Defender of misunderstood classic character types starting with the letter "P," ending with the letter "N," and not spelling the word "Psion," which is sanskrit for "Dumb as hell."
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Fatespinner, the only logical choice facing you is to try and devise some real-life situation to cause the girl to break up with this slug. Put crystal meth in his car or something, along with a note to the effect of, "I'm so addicted to crystal meth, and I love it, even more than my girlfriend, who is an excellent roleplayer and the only reason I haven't been kicked out of my D&D group, because god knows I suck at every facet of the game and leave everyone around me perplexed as to why I'm even there."
Actually, I was just thinking of dropping some concentrated cyanide into his Pepsi while he's in the bathroom. I can even take his violent seizures in character and say that he's been stricken dead by his god for neglecting his duties. I bet he'll get a few RP votes posthumously.
Fatespinner, I would suggest either electroshock therapy or just out-right killing his character (just a little something to wake him up to the game).
Here is another rant. I hate it when a player doesn't level up between games. They have the time and the sourcebooks and the know-how but they just don't level up. When we begin the game I have to wait for them to choose spells, skills and feats and roll new HD and so on. WHY CAN'T THEY LEVEL UP BETWEEN SESSIONS!? I have talked to them about it but it doesn't seem to make an impression. We get together to play about twice a month so during this precious time we should play, not update their character sheets.
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Fatespinner, I would suggest either electroshock therapy or just out-right killing his character (just a little something to wake him up to the game).
Here is another rant. I hate it when a player doesn't level up between games. They have the time and the sourcebooks and the know-how but they just don't level up. When we begin the game I have to wait for them to choose spells, skills and feats and roll new HD and so on. WHY CAN'T THEY LEVEL UP BETWEEN SESSIONS!? I have talked to them about it but it doesn't seem to make an impression. We get together to play about twice a month so during this precious time we should play, not update their character sheets.
Uggh...that used to fry me.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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This still fries me.
We play every Sunday with a 5 hour window. Of course, it's at least a half hour before everyone arrives and gets settled in, so we really have about a 4.5 hour window. One player, who is usually the last to arrive, is ALWAYS "forgetting" to level up between sessions, and has to review EVERY POSSIBLE Skill/Feat before making a decision. So, we lose another 45 minutes or so while he does this.
We lose so much time waiting for him, it drives me batty!
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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McRibs suck!!!Bah. If you had bothered to playtest McRib, you would understand that it is balanced and tastey.It's not even balanced for throwing.
It makes a nifty "splap" on the window of McD's though.
You're non-proficient. Try taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Pork(?) Products*. That should help a lot.
*Not to be confused with Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Pork Products without the (?), which only applies to foods actually made from pigs.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I don't really have a problem with the leveling up between sessions thing because, well, I keep all of the character sheets at my house and I'm the only person in our entire group who owns any D&D books. Therefore... they kind of HAVE to level up when they get there (though I usually like them to level up the night that I award XP before they go home).
Heath, as for letting the world happen TO him, he's going to get a very rude awakening in the city of Five Fingers tonight. What better way to spur a good cleric into action than by having his efforts thwarted by an EVIL cleric! >:)
My prediction:
"Uhm... okay. This guy's not very nice is he? .... I guess I heal him."
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My problem: I have a player who doesn't play. Not "doesn't show up for game on time" or "doesn't roleplay with the group" I mean DOESN'T f~~~ING PLAY. He sits there like a mushroom on a log the whole time, never speaking unless spoken to and does not contribute anything to the game except for the fact that he's playing a cleric and keeping people alive occasionally (but only when directly called upon for healing).
Ah.... (rubs hands gleefully).
My first post here and I'll just dive right into ranting.I have a fellow player like that. Fortunately without the long pauses. But otherwise there's no "role" in his roleplaying.
He leaves early during one of our evening games. After he leaves we've taken to making a lot of jokes referring to his character as a cardboard standee. "What's Erim doing?" "He's just standing there." (Laughter)
We keep joking that we're going to get a photo of the player and have it blown up to life size so we can have a cardboard standee of him, too.
I feel your pain.
I don't feel your pain- I just want to see a decapitation by sharpie! That's freaking sweet, as I feel Belkar Bitterleaf would say.
There's also a vegetarian "Riblet" product made by either Morningstar Farms or Boca.I just want to reiterate that I really do hate McRib.For those few who LIKE McRib, you can find an OnCor version of the same thing in the freezer aisle of your local grocer.
Gardenburger Riblets are amazingly good, for frozen soy products. Morningstar Farms Chik Patties are also pretty top notch for getting vegetarians and health conscious omnivores that chicken substitute flavor.
Believe it or not, along with all the extra chemicals in the average McDonald's burger-like product is a percentage of soy blended with the miscellaneous horse and donkey parts that make up the meat portion. Still not healthy, but it keeps the prices down to competitive fast food rates.
Also, while I'm on the rant thread: becoming a vegetarian or a vegan to impress a girl or boy is a bad reason. They're never as impressed as one thinks they'll be. This is spoken from experience. In fact, doing anything to impress the opposite/attractive gender is a bad idea. Except for russian prison tattoos. Those always work. But, man, you better watch out for someone that was really in a Russian prison.
Life lesson for today: knowing how to apologize and plead for your life in several languages is very helpful.
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Director of Narrative
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There's also a vegetarian "Riblet" product made by either Morningstar Farms or Boca.I just want to reiterate that I really do hate McRib.For those few who LIKE McRib, you can find an OnCor version of the same thing in the freezer aisle of your local grocer.
Gardenburger Riblets are amazingly good, for frozen soy products. Morningstar Farms Chik Patties are also pretty top notch for getting vegetarians and health conscious omnivores that chicken substitute flavor.
I almost forgot that I had fellow vegetarians here. Boca makes a product that is like little frozen chicken breasts that can be prepared in very good ways to make them super-tasty. Also Worthington (sp?) makes a product called Steaklettes that are super if prepared right.
The rant part of this is that my local supermarkets quit carrying these products or the respective companies quit making them. Those were some of my wife and I's favorites. I make my own pizza dough and used to make vegetarian BBQ "chicken" pizzas and "steak" pitas with grilled onions.
Oh yeah, and most if not all fast food is terrible, but since most of my life I cooked/ran a kitchen for a living and my wife still does at least we have job security. I would say that people should learn to actually cook for themselves instead of the instant gratification of packaged meals and fast food, but that would be counter-productive to our income.
Just something that kinds bugs me not gonna try to make vegetarians made but the fact that you don't need any meat but then cook and eat "special vegetarian" things like BBQ and chicken and hotdogs. I find dumb and I know the logic and reasoning behind it cause I have vegetarian friends. I just seems like an oxy-moron to me.
Another thing on a completly different topic. The fact that to do anything in the military or at least the NAVY requires a "special request chit" which takes 4 days to process to do anything really gets old fast.
McRibs suck!!!
I LOVE McRibs; yum; I pretty much will only go to McD's when they have them; if they are not going to serve them anymore, then I have no more reason other than the kids ranting to go to the awful dining establishment.
Hey look, a rant:
Every DM runs into problems with players from time to time. Some people have too many powergamers, some people have players who are unwilling to commit, some have players who roleplay poorly or are constantly off-topic or out-of-character.
My problem: I have a player who doesn't play. Not "doesn't show up for game on time" or "doesn't roleplay with the group" I mean DOESN'T f&@@ING PLAY. He sits there like a mushroom on a log the whole time, never speaking unless spoken to and does not contribute anything to the game except for the fact that he's playing a cleric and keeping people alive occasionally (but only when directly called upon for healing).
I've tried different approaches with this guy. I've tried presenting situations that should rile his character into some kind of action. I've tried talking to him. I've tried working with him on character backstory/motivation. I've tried everything short of forcefully severing him from the group and making him go solo for awhile (which I think might be the next step).
I really hate being stuck in this situation because the guy's complete lack of apparent interest and activity is really prompting me to just kick him out and NPC his character. But, I can't kick him out because his girlfriend is one of my two best players!!!! Argh! He's only made it this far because of the 'lesser of two evils' rule. I'd rather have him sitting at the table as a non-entity and have his girlfriend continue to enrich the gaming experience for everyone than get rid of both of them (which might very well be what would happen if I kicked him).
I'm really lucky that he's not actively disruptive. He comes to the table, sits down, and watches everyone else roleplay while sipping on his Pepsi and waiting for me to directly ask him "What are you doing now?" His most common response is "Uhhh..... (excruciatingly long pause).... I guess I heal him."
He seems to be incapable of making up his character's mind. In normal situations (i.e. non-combat...
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hehe have you ever asked him if he was having fun; maybe he is just a people watcher and laughing on the inside at all the other players or maybe he is just want to feel belonging in a social circle which is pretty serious stuff. I have a player exactly like this; guy can't even do a yes not answer most times, but has been in my game for 20 years and says he loves it; go figure.
Ok; end of month 6 about to start month 7 of my wife's craziness and our separation. AAARRRGJHH #$%^$#$#@#! whew. Is weird; other than no sex and her not sleeping their; everything is pretty much the same as when we were married; go figure. Oh, wait; that is the same as she often has insomnia.
Fatespinner, I would suggest either electroshock therapy or just out-right killing his character (just a little something to wake him up to the game).
Here is another rant. I hate it when a player doesn't level up between games. They have the time and the sourcebooks and the know-how but they just don't level up. When we begin the game I have to wait for them to choose spells, skills and feats and roll new HD and so on. WHY CAN'T THEY LEVEL UP BETWEEN SESSIONS!? I have talked to them about it but it doesn't seem to make an impression. We get together to play about twice a month so during this precious time we should play, not update their character sheets.
Oh dear god yes!!! I thought I just had some lazy tuchus players with no motivation, but I think they are actually trying to gaslight me. Then, while they are delaying the entire game spending tens of minutes trying to level their character up (something I can do in about 18 seconds on a bad day- not because of any superiority on my part, but because it's just that frackin easy, like toaster pastries, in 3.5e)they get involved in off topic, irrelevant discussions with the other players who are bored, waiting for them to level. This acually happened last week and it meant we wound up having 5 hours of gaming instead of 6 or 7 because by the time he was done, everyone was distracted, ornery and hungry.
My other peeve is players who forget their character sheet when they take it home to level up. I mean its not like they were just in the neighborhood and decided to pop in. They came to my house to play D&D. What does someone who plays a D&D character need? A Character sheet, that's right. Not a backpack full of contraband. Not a box of donuts. Just one sheet of paper, a pencil and some dice. I manage to leave the house dressed most mornings in spite of my ADD, and I equate bringing a character sheet to a D&D game with showing up dressed and walking upright to your job. It's the bare minimum.
I know I am a total dork, but I keep a backpack just for gaming with a set of dice, sharpened pencils, pads of note paper and my current characters in both campaigns I occasionally play in packed and ready. All I have to do in the event of a game is pick out a few bottles of wine from the cellar, slap 'em in my builtNY bag and head out the door with both bags in hand... I don't expect that level of involvement from my players, but showing up with a character sheet and dice would be oh-so nice. End Rant. Thanks for listening
-Syl
P.S: Then again, showing up with a bottle of wine would be appreciated as well *g*