I got my copy of the Dragon Compendium Vol 1 the other and after looking it over I am EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED. Erik, I hope you are reading these posts to hear comments from your fan base.
When I heard of the "Dragon Compendium" I was expecting primarily material from classical issues from Dragon Magazine way back in the day and updated for the current 3.5e system. Instead, I get another huge list of races, feats, prestige classes, etc. that we get ALL THE TIME. I mean, do the editors (or whomever put this together) realize how many feats and prestige classes are already out there in the recent 3.5e literature. We have been bombarded with these, the sheer number is unbelievable. Someone in your design group should have compiled a current number of how many feats and presitge classes have been put out in Dragon Magazine, hard backs, website, etc. There must be dozens and dozens and dozens.
I was extremely discouraged with the number of articles pre-dating the 2000-2006 era. Most of these issues are easily available at the local library or by purchase on Paizo.com. The older issues, and in my opinion, the CLASSIC ISSUES were entirely under represented. The bias towards the newer articles was blatant and painfully obvious, and reading some of the posts a number of other members feel the same as I.
I feel robbed at purchasing this volume and it was a kick in the teeth for a player who's been playing D&D since 1979. What about the classic articles you read about all the time but you can never get your hands on: (i) discussions between Mordenkainen, Dalamar, and Elminster, (ii) details of Zagyg and the classic imprisonment of the nine demigods, (iii) the intricacies of the outer planes (Nine Hells, Abyss, Pandemonium, etc.), etc.
Where were all the historical articles? Where were all the classical characters reinstalled in the 3.5e system.
You totally lost me on this one and I'm not going to pre-order the next volume but rather wait this time and see how everyone feels about it. I apologize for the length of this diatribe, but I had to vent as it was brewing all night.
Sincerely yours,
I am disgruntled, disappointed, and frankly I feel cheated and betrayed... It was definitely not worth the money I paid!
Darin
there's something to be said for flipping through a book before you buy it... which, if it's hit the stores around here yet, i intend to do today. ;)
|
Where were all the historical articles? Where were all the classical characters reinstalled in the 3.5e system.
If you're looking for classic stuff converted to 3.5, then wander over to the Wizards of the Coast D&D website. They have recently (since Halloween) updated both Tomb of Horrors and White Plume Mountain to 3.5 and have them available for free download as pdf files. There is also talk that more old adventures will be getting the same treatment, but nothing confirmed.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
|
A page-by-page analysis of the Dragon Compendium reveals that pre-3rd edition material accounts for 39% of the book's contents, particularly in the "Classics" and "Appendix" sections, which contain approximately 0 feats.
As a fan of classic material, I sympathize with your position, but the recent years have also seen a great deal of excellent material, and given that it was easier, less risky, and more cost effective to focus on the newer material for this first volume, I'm satisfied with the decisions that were made regarding what made it into the book and what didn't.
It appears as though sales of the first volume will warrant production of a second, which will undoubtedly include more pre-3rd edition material. There are 30 years worth of issues to plub for good stuff, and it's going to take us a few volumes before we start running out.
Sorry the first volume wasn't what you'd expected. I suspect you will prefer future volumes (assuming Wizards lets us do them), but even then I suggest flipping through a copy to make sure it's what you want before you buy it. That's just good sense.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
I was expecting primarily material from classical issues from Dragon Magazine way back in the day and updated for the current 3.5e system. Instead, I get another huge list of races, feats, prestige classes, etc. that we get ALL THE TIME. I mean, do the editors (or whomever put this together) realize how many feats and prestige classes are already out there in the recent 3.5e literature. We have been bombarded with these, the sheer number is unbelievable. Someone in your design group should have compiled a current number of how many feats and presitge classes have been put out in Dragon Magazine, hard backs, website, etc. There must be dozens and dozens and dozens.
...
Feats and prestige classes are the way that most optional rules are packaged in 3.5. I prefer the more structured approach of 3.5 than the hap-hazard jumble of optional rules that 1st and 2nd edition AD&D had.
I'm perfectly happy with lots of feats and lots of prestige classes, even if I only use a few. I think your unhappiness is unfortunate, but you cannot expect to find a Dragon Compendium magazine with updates for 3.5 and not find lots of feats and prestige classes....I really DON'T want a bunch of old-style "optional rules" if they can be made into a feat or a prestige class, quite honestly.
I also wish there had been more updated classic content, but your judgment is unduly harsh in my opinion. The artwork was great and even though I'm only going to use about 25% of the book's content in my game, it is still much better than some of the stuff that WotC has put out lately.
It appears as though sales of the first volume will warrant production of a second, which will undoubtedly include more pre-3rd edition material. There are 30 years worth of issues to plub for good stuff, and it's going to take us a few volumes before we start running out.
woohoo! :) as always, keep us apprised as much as you can!
i'm going to go back and re-figure out what i would like to see in volume 2 and post it. before i saw the ToC, i thought the whole book would be whole articles reprinted and re-presented - didn't know the classes, feats, magic items etc would be used piecemeal. :)
Co-owner - Battlegrounds to Board Games
|
I am really happy with the way the book turned out. I may not have been playing since 1979, but I did start a long time ago in 1984 and I happen to think you might not be giving the book a chance. I was really jazzed about the content of the book and the fact that they gave us a preview of the TOC. What more could a person ask for? If one is disappointed after knowing the content of a book and one still buys it, it is nobodys fault but oneself! There is just so much that could have gone into the book and such a wide fan base that it would be impossible to please everyone. I personally applaud the book and I want the editors to know that I will be picking up each volume if they are as good as this one. I think a good ratio for the future would be about 20% articles and fluff and 80% crunch and feats and character options! :) As for me 100% of the content is usable for my campaign, somewhere in the world. Keep it comin' Paizo!!
It is not a bad start. Not great, but not bad. I would have preferred more fluff, less crunch, but I wouldn't say it was unuseable. A little high priced for a collection of not-that-old material (A pdf format would have served me better, though not at WotC pdf prices), but I ordered mine through frp and that took 8 bones off the price. Comparable to Year's Best d20 by Monte Cook (but that was available as pdf and less expensive by far).
Assuming a second volume is created, I will almost definitely purchase it. Maybe a non-adventure path style Dungeon Compendium?
I really enjoyed the Lupin and the Jester articles, though I was put off by the Force Missile Mage (too recent to be included in a compilation, imo).
I picked it up, flipped through it, and saw maybe about a dozen pages I would use for my game.
I'm not adverse to buying a book and using only part of it, but at the price point the Compedium was set at it just wasn't worth it, considering I already have much of the material in unrully back issues.
I would have liked to have seen more of the info compiled from the "Uncommon Character" articles assembled in it -- almost like a Player's Handbook II.
Which brings up the idea, that maye you should get with WOTC assemble that expanded info for the core classes and creat the Player's Guide II!?
I would have liked to have seen more of the info compiled from the "Uncommon Character" articles assembled in it -- almost like a Player's Handbook II.
Which brings up the idea, that maye you should get with WOTC assemble that expanded info for the core classes and creat the Player's Guide II!?
WotC is already releasing a Player's Handbook II around mid-2006.
WotC is already releasing a Player's Handbook II around mid-2006.I would have liked to have seen more of the info compiled from the "Uncommon Character" articles assembled in it -- almost like a Player's Handbook II.
Which brings up the idea, that maye you should get with WOTC assemble that expanded info for the core classes and creat the Player's Guide II!?
It had better have an index......(sorry, wrong thread)
|
there's something to be said for flipping through a book before you buy it... which, if it's hit the stores around here yet, i intend to do today. ;)
Please keep in mind that for those of us who have to buy online, that is not an option. I would have to drive over 30 miles just to find a place that sells D&D books and finding a non-WOC book is like finding a single four leaf clover in a 1 acre field.
in that case, your best bet is to be patient, wait to hear what others have said about it, and when you have a general consensus on the issues that matter to you, you can make a more informed choice. :)
buying something sight unseen incurs all the risks that go along with it - including that you might not like it once you've seen it.
there's something to be said for flipping through a book before you buy it... which, if it's hit the stores around here yet, i intend to do today. ;)Please keep in mind that for those of us who have to buy online, that is not an option. I would have to drive over 30 miles just to find a place that sells D&D books and finding a non-WOC book is like finding a single four leaf clover in a 1 acre field.
I've found that ENworld's a good site for reviews. I usually check that site before I buy a product sight unseen and I have been able to make pretty good judgement calls based on the reviews posted there.
Hi all,
>>>>Sorry the first volume wasn't what you'd expected. I suspect you will prefer future volumes (assuming Wizards lets us do them), but even then I suggest flipping through a copy to make sure it's what you want before you buy it. That's just good sense.
Well Eric, it could be just "good sense", but in my particular case it is impossible. Let me explain you why: I live in southern Spain, where it is IMPOSSIBLE to get your hands over this kind of material. So, you have to rely on online shops to purchase it. Obviously, first time you can see what you got is when the book arrives your home...and it is then too late to decide to keep it or not since it is already payed.
In my particular case again, I honestly though feats and prestige classes wew going to be a minimum part of the contents, and classics were going to be given more space. Sadly this wasn´t the case, and I feel as well disappointed and not very tempted to purchase further issues of Dragon Compendium.
Having not purchased the Compendium, I have no comment on it, but as mentioned above, I would definitely browse a book before buying it; buyer beware, bro.
As far as preferred content, I'm more concerned about game mechanics than NPC plotlines, history and roleplay - ultimately, all of that can be thrown to the wind and replaced by the DM (which has been done, no doubt); what cannot (or at least, shouldn't) be replaced are good, solid rules and useful tables for generating material.
What I would like to see from the classic issues are the old articles on:
- Generating randomized mundane contents of buildings, rooms, arcane labs, temples and containers
- Critical hit & fumble tables
- Alternate rules
- Classes for alternate alignments (for those classes that are alignment-restricted)
- Generating encounter tables by terrain/climate
To me, the Compendium should read like an alternate 'Arcana Unearthed'.
My 2 cents,
M
Well... for anyone mumbling about not getting acesso to early dragons content, i have that 5 cds dragon compilation with the first 250 numbers in pdf format.
And if i was able to buy it here in Portugal....
This is my first post ... woopie
I've played D&D and read Dragon on and off for more than 20 years (boy did that make me feel old!). I just ordered my copy of the Dragon Compendium yesterday from Paizo - it should be here next week. I'll throw in my two cents when I get the book. From everything I've read on these boards so far though, I have a strong feeling I will be very happy with the book!!!
Contributor
|
This is my first post ... woopie
I've played D&D and read Dragon on and off for more than 20 years (boy did that make me feel old!). I just ordered my copy of the Dragon Compendium yesterday from Paizo - it should be here next week. I'll throw in my two cents when I get the book. From everything I've read on these boards so far though, I have a strong feeling I will be very happy with the book!!!
I sincerely hope you are very happy with it. It was a long labor of love for Erik, and I'm glad to have been a part of the process. I hope I get to work on the next one as well, and that you'll enjoy it too. :)
Well, I received my copy of Vol. I ....
Here are my thoughts ... parsed through the eyes and mind of one who has played D&D and read Dragon on and off for almost thirty years, as well as has been involved to a small extent in actually producing RPG products and who works in the magazine prepress and publishing industry ...
Overall impression – I REALLY like it!
True, there have been many game and stat related errors found. I also noticed a few editorial goofs, typos etc. For example, in Erik’s otherwise wonderful intro to the book, he mentions that the book contains a number of new classes and races and then lists them, but in both cases, he refers to them both as classes (or both as races, I don’t have the book handy to check). This kind of thing really should never have made it past the editing and proof reading stage, but from what I have read on these boards, this book was put together more quickly than was ideal.
Having said all that, the book really is very good. I honestly don’t understand why some people have complained about it. True, there is more later material than earlier, but the ratio is more than acceptable. I was very happy to see the updated version of the old article on various poisons. I actually still have the photocopied pages of that original article when it first appeared in Dragon in my old three ring binder of “cool D&D stuff”.
One thing I was not expecting, but I find I very much like, is the layout. I was imagining the layout would be more ... Dragon magazine like. In other words, the various articles would have looked more like they did as they appeared in the magazine. However, the layout is much more like a core rule book. In fact, the Compendium is organized and laid out much like a combined DMG, Players Handbook and Monster Manual all in one book. Which, once I looked through the book, is exactly as it should be. Feats are organized alphabetically just like in the Players Handbook, magic items follow the format of the DMG etc. This actually makes the book even more useful from a game standpoint in my opinion.
I am actually looking forward to Volume II and would recommend this first volume very highly.
after buying the book on a whim, and finally getting around to reading it, i can honestly say that i really enjoyed it. i can use just about everything in there at some point or another in my game. although one of the new core races i'll be unable to use when i play because my DM's don't like the "evil" alignment restrictment.
i am also compelled to agree with Marc here, the layout is awesome, and i don't particulaly<sp?> mind new feats, prestige classes, etc. although it does become somewhat annoying when your players bust new crap outta no where...
all in all, i would recommend this one to everybody that plays D&D. some things i liked, some things i didn't. that's just the way of things.
I'm all for seeing more old stuff next time. I really like the idea that all the hard work that went into older Dragon magazines won't go to waste in this edition! I've not seen many old issues but I bet there's a wealth of excellent stuff there that a lot of of us haven't seen because we didn't get into the game until 3ed or early 2ed.
|
|
Dragon #106 was the Unearthed Arcana of 1E issues for my campaigns. The alignment-based holy warriors and the expanded ranger material would be wonderful to see in a 3.x format. Oh, and the late great Parkinson's classic, Valshea on the cover.
I haven't bought the first Dragon Compendium mostly as the cost is beyond my current finances. 39% "old" material wasn't enough to sacrifice a tank of gas. Maybe next time.
Mentioning next time, an "odd" suggestion if I may: reprint some of the classic personalities that graced old Dragon covers and give them 3.5 statistics. It would be a Dragon's Rogue Gallery Hall of Fame.