So Dreamscarred Press is currently releasing their take on the Bo9S and with three core classes out it is looking good, even though I was skeptical before. That said, I have found myself often considering new maneuvers, disciplines, and even classes to add to the system. It's a project I have found a little daunting however, so I was hoping maybe I could get some help.
The purpose of this thread is to share ideas and concepts that people who like the idea Path of War (and Bo9S, for that matter) have come up with. Let's hear some ideas people.
Now I love the idea behind maneuvers (though not always) but I think it's weird that a martial system has it's initiator's preparing their maneuvers like wizards. So my ideas is to use a stamina system to represent strain that initiators face when preforming these devastating moves but still letting them freely pick from the attacks they know. Only characters who use maneuvers have stamina pools, though if anyone can think of any reason to let everyone get them let me know.
For initiators who receive their maneuvers from a source other than their class, like a fighter with the Martial Training feat series: 4 + highest BAB. For example, a fighter of 7th level with Martial Training II would have 11 stamina total (4 + 7 from highest BAB).
Natural initiators (warders, stalkers, warlords, etc.) have a slightly different pool formula: 4 + double their initiator level. If a character begins play in a non-initiator class but gains a stamina pool (like our example fighter) and then later multiclasses into a natural initiator he either uses whichever method would give him the greater amount of stamina.
Continuing, stamina is a fairly accessible resource. During any full round that stamina goes unused the initiator gains an amount of stamina back equal to the number of attacks they can make due to a high BAB. Again, using our level 7 fighter as an example- let's say he uses a maneuver that leaves him with only 7 stamina left. On his next round, if he opted to not make use of anymore maneuvers, he would recover 2 stamina as his BAB is +7/+2 at 7th level.
Naturally initiating classes can recover stamina this way too, or they can make use of their existing class features. These class features that normally allow these classes to recover one expanded maneuver instead recover an amount of stamina equal to their total initiator level.
Finally their is how fatigue and exhaustion factor into stamina. In addition to the normal penalties involved, and initiator who is fatigued has his stamina pool halved for as long as the condition persists, and must double the duration it takes to regain stamina through waiting (our fighter would have to wait two full rounds without initiating to get back his 2 stamina). The exhausted condition is even worse for our poor initiators- as long as the condition persists the initiator can only use 1/4th of their pool, and recovers no stamina until the condition is removed.
NOTE: The only thing I cannot decide on for this house rule is how much stamina should maneuvers cost for their level?
My ideas so far have been:
1.) Maneuvers follow the same formula for psionic powers, i.e. 1st level maneuvers spend 1 stamina, 2nd level 3, etc.
2.) Maneuvers are grouped in tiers, with the price increasing by two for each one. Tier One: 1st and 2nd level maneuvers cost 2 stamina, while Tier 2: 3rd and 4th level maneuvers cost 4 stamina to utilize, etc.
Thoughts?
This section is a bit of a cop out as I don't really have anything here fleshed out but would love some help doing so.
First are class ideas, to which i have two, maybe three:
1.) The Myrmidon- again, I like the Path of War material so far, however I have found something kind of weird. With PoW, we have a initiator that is a stealthy monk, a living tank, and a bard who uses axes instead of lutes (the stalker, the warder, and the warlord respectively). Cool classes but I (and I bet I'm alone of this) feel like we are missing a pure kensei sort of class, an initiator who is not only a student of the blade but one who lives it, like the old swordsage and the warblade.
Basically I am looking to make a fighter alternative with class features to that revolve around mastering maneuvers, maybe even a class specific 'meta-combat' system to augment their maneuvers. I have few ideas but nothing concrete. Help appreciated.
2.) Halo Knight (Rebuild)- Dreamscarred had a pretty cool class out during the days of 3.5 called the Halo Knight that I recently have taken to updating to Pathfinder by mixing it with the Spirit Warrior class from Necromancer's of the Northwest; I recently have considered adding maneuvers to this class rebuild to add a missing edge to it. I have a version of this that is almost done for community view.
3.) The Marauder- this is a homebrew class I have used in my games for a while now that uses grit, favored enemies, and an injury system to inflict pain on his prey. I have but some thought into reworking it a bit to use maneuvers.
As for disciplines, well this is what I am really looking help for, as well what neat ideas you guys can come up with.
On my part I have a few ideas but need serious help fleshing them out.
1.)Thundering Bell- a sonic oriented discipline with the idea of using noise for distracting and deafening techniques.
2.)Phenric Will- the psionic discipline, intended for use with the halo knight. Supernatural in nature, this one would be based of the abilities of the aegis and soulknife, manifesting constructs of pure metal energy as the them of this style.
3.)Treachery- a dirty fighting discipline, with all sorts of tricks and deception involved to beat your opponent in an unfair fight.
4.)Another Ranged Discipline- I like Solar Wind but it feel weird that that only range emphasized discipline is a supernatural one focusing on fire. I'd love to here ideas for a new one that is a little more mundane.
5.)Monad's Might- a discipline along the lines of Black Seraph but oriented towards aeons, and cosmic balance instead of devils and pure evil.
I have a few ideas for maneuvers but not nearly enough to create full lists- I would greatly appreciate feedback and ideas to get these functioning.
Ideas, either for your own stuff or to help me?
I was working on an Int-based Warlord archetype that traded away the Cha reliance and Gambit method of refreshing maneuvers (which I can't stand). I ended up scrapping it, because a) I hadn't yet seen the Warder, which fills the concept I was going for adequately, if not super well, and b) I have a bad habit of using Notepad for stuff, and when it crashed, having not saved in a while, with no recovery options, I just gave up.
I may go back into it, though. I'll admit this is largely personal preference, but I've always been a fan of Int-based (or at least Int secondary) Martial classes, and back when I played 4e, I played a Int Warlord, who I grew attached to. The Cha warlord, however, just feels a bit superfluous, since there's already enough ways to make a CHA based leader character, and the gambit thing has a bit too much of a "death or glory" vibe to it, and mechanically I don't like how it gets worse as you level up.
As for your Ideas, I like some of them, while others I dislike, but I can admit, that's more personal preference. I'm not too big a fan of the stamina thing, mostly for mechanical reasons. I never liked psionics, mechanically, and Stamina is too close to that. Might be interesting, however to do a homebrew of your homebrew, since I had a half formed Homebrew system that relied on a dice pool for martial maneuvers, where you rolled a die from d4 to d12 depending on your skill, and each maneuver had a target number associated with it, usually 2-4 with some 5s for high level maneuvers. Whenever you performed the maneuver, you'd roll the die to determine if you lost it (though honestly on reexamination, I think it'd be better to just drop it 1 step, so from d12->d10 for example). Even if you failed the roll, you'd always attempt the maneuver, but on a fail, you'd overexert yourself. The problem ended up being, I overestimated my statistical ability, and the ability to write up what ended up being an rather complex system, but I'd like to see what I could do, were I to stand on the shoulders of giants, as it were.
I can't say too much on the classes, since while some of them may be neat, I don't have enough to go on to give a full opinion. Personally, I think the classes it gives are fine, enough to fill the spaces the rogue/monk, cavalier/3.5 Marshal/4e Warlord and (tanky) Fighter fail to fill (with the Stalker, Warlord and Warder respectively). Perhaps there's room for one more, that's more neutral, mechanically, and fills the role of a non-tank fighter, but otherwise, I'm fine with what there already is.
As for the Disciplines, I actually like them a good deal. I especially like the concept for another ranged discipline, since while I'd probably just reflavor the offending maneuvers to (Ex) abilities, it'd be nice to see a more mundane ranged discipline. Monad's Might seems interesting too, but that may just be because I think the Aeons are pretty neat. Treachery also, would fill the gap where I expected a "dirty fighting" discipline to be. The class ended up reading like more of a monk-replacement, when, from the name of stalker, I expected more of a rogue replacement. Thundering bell is another, that I'll kind of have to wait and see, much like the classes, since I don't feel the need for it, but it might be nice to have. And Phenric Will, I'm not too keen on, but I'll admit my personal biases have nothing inherently superior to them.
Tholomyes:
1.) I like the idea behind an Int-based Warlord; someone who approaches tactical combat in a manner similar to Sun Tzu but the Warder does seem like a good fill to that notch. Still, if you ever like to continue the Int focused Warlord please feel free to share it here.
2.) Sorry to hear your distaste for psionics, it's a system I personally love (though not to the degree of 'let's replace it with everything' mantra some other fans for it have); that said how do you feel it is too close to the PP system? Aside from possible cost of maneuvers (and I am a bigger fan of tiering anyway) how does it make you feel it's oriented to psionic systems? Because I don't see how it is close to psionics mechanically other than having spending costs, but monks have ki and magus have arcana without crossing those wires I'd imagine.
As for your dice mechanic I am actually familiar with it and enjoy the concept- I just think it's ill suited for something like martial maneuvers. I feel like when you add a certain amount of randomness to a system, even in just the case of exertion, it paints that system as a random force in the game world. With certain types of magic and even psionics I think this would fit mechanically, but I feel that martial arts are a calculated thing, something that warriors prefer because it is something sure- an element that only depends on their skill, not the tides of fate. It's one of the things I really disliked about the Crusader from 3.5.
That said, I do really like the up and down dice mechanic representing extra effort and I was hoping you'd let me use it in an idea I had for the myrmidon's meta-combat system. Yes?
3.) While it may be true that Path of War probably covers all the missing ground, I've never felt that as being any reason to stop. In a game of character creation and customization I have found more options are never a bad thing. I mean look at the wizard and sorcerer- both fill the same role at the end of the day. However because both can be play in two different manners they can both exists, even in the same party at the same time.
New initiator classes, both official and homebrew, probably will step on the toes of PoWs existing three; I don't see that as any reason to not make new ones.
4.) I am glad my discipline concepts caught your eye. I was hoping people would find the ideas cool and it seems they do have potential. I have a few of them flessed out somewhat but need feed back and support to really get them off the ground.
Level 1 Maneuvers
Singing Strike: Strike- By swinging and flourishing your weapon in practiced manner you cause it to vibrate and hum, dealing sonic damage as it bashes into your foe. Deal 1d6 sonic damage on a successful attack in addition to normal damage, as well ignore an amount of hardness equal to your ranks in Preform(percussion).
Focusing Chant: Boost- By singing a song learned during your training you strengthen your body with the dedication in your heart. Until your next turn gain 10 temporary hp and a +2 moral bonus to your saves.
Deafening Blow: Strike- Swinging your weapon in an unusual arch you create a high pitched whistle that accompanies your attack. Inflict an additional 1d6 points of sonic damage on a successful attack and force the target to make a Fort save [DC 11+Initiator Modifier]or become deafened for one round.
Hymn of Dedication: Counter- You hum a tone to focus your thoughts on the task at hand in an attempt to overcome a debilitating effect. Use this counter after a failed save against a compulsion or other mind-effecting ability to re-roll the save with a +2 moral bonus.
Rhythm Battle-Tempo: Stance- By using your weapon as a make-shift instrument (swinging a sword to make it whistle in the air, slamming a polearm against the ground, etc.) you make a tempo to let allies time their efforts. As long as you remain in this stance, allies who are attacking the same enemy as you get a +1 moral bonus on attack rolls against the enemy which you are focusing on.
Noise Drowning Pose: Stance- As a combatant who uses sound to your advantage you know just how dangerous noise can be. While in this stance you gain resistance sonic 5, and a +1 luck bonus on saves versus effects generated by sound (sonic breath weapons, spells with vocal components, powers with the auditory descriptor, etc.).
Associated Skill: Preform(percussion)
Associated Weapons: Hammers, shields, clubs, and whip/flail weapons.
These are the ideas I have so far for Thundering Bell. Opinions?