List of common complaints about the The Summoner so far?

So I am trying to tabulate all of the common complaints I have heard about the summoner so far. So they are avialable in one place. I don't necessarily agree with all of them. I also haven't included anything about the spell casting as that not unique to the summoner.

If I have missed anything or if you have solutions which you could link below that would be great.

1. They don't gain the benefit of Apex Items

2. Each or the eidolons isn't differentiated enough from each other.

3. Summoners are likely to be hit more often because they have more bodies but they don't have great survival tools.

4. Some people would prefer more customisation of the eidolon.

5. Because eidolons don't have combat Feats eidolon combat could potentially feel very samey/boring.

6. They synthesist is very limiting and not very strong.

7. Until 3rd level the eidolon has the worst AC of any melee class in the game.

2. Each or the eidolons isn't differentiated enough from each other.
4. Some people would prefer more customisation of the eidolon.
5. Because eidolons don't have combat Feats eidolon combat could potentially feel very samey/boring.

I get it but this is just a playtest of some core options. I expect this will be filled out in the final version

I quite like what they have done with Unarmed Evolution feat and the Evolution Surge Conduit Spell. There is some good flexibility there. A few more of these please.

6. They synthesist is very limiting and not very strong.

If you are going to say something negative then please be clear. I agree by the way - specifically the synthesist needs to be able to use their conduit spells while their eidolon is active. To my mind that would solve its problems. It seems fair that they can't use their other spells.

7. Until 3rd level the eidolon has the worst AC of any melee class in the game.

Its a big problem.

8. The Eidolon and Summoner effectively have disadvantage on all saving throws that target them both. Powers like Shared Resolve and Twin Juggernaught are not as good as they seem. It would be much more prefereable to have a high level power like:
Your save can be no more than one category worse than your Eidolons.
The Eidolons save can be no more than one category worse than yours.

Still with Protective Bond it is not so bad.

9. There is no way to do anything useful with the reaction of the Eidolon. Its a bit part of the optimised game. I really like the way this was fleshed out in the APG. The eidolon has to be able to get in on this somewhat. All the options that give the eidolon extra size and reach are negative or marginal without some form of Attack of Oppourtunity. Being able to protect the summoner behind you with a reaction is important

10. Summoner Shield Evolution. Hmm the summoner could just raise his shield instead. I'll be spending my precious feats on another power instead.

11 Winged Evolution. Level 16. Really - you are serious level 16. I know it is permanent and other flight sources are short term. But level 16 is too late.

12. Eidolon and Summoner should not be sharing HP. They are seperate creatures and should have seperate HP pools.

13. Eidolon and Summoner should have different pools of actions. Again they are seperate creatured and should be allowed to act independently.

14. Summoner is getting no way near enough Summon spells. Its called the summoner class where are the summon spells?

15. Eidolon evolutions are boring, uninspired, and often locked behind too hogh level. Not to mention the fact they are under a feat bottleneck competing with the Summoner themselves.

16. The Summoner is just an extra only there to cast boost eidolon.

12. Eidolon and Summoner should not be sharing HP. They are separate creatures and should have separate HP pools.

13. Eidolon and Summoner should have different pools of actions. Again they are separate creatures and should be allowed to act independently.

I will note that more many of us (and it is the intention of the design of the class as well) feel that these aren't bugs, but rather features.

12. Eidolon and Summoner should not be sharing HP. They are seperate creatures and should have seperate HP pools.

16. The Summoner is just an extra only there to cast boost eidolon.

This may be true at level 1 I wish there were a few more things native to the class for the summoner to do but from level 2 onwards the summoner has access to all the arctypes and skill Feats, Bon Mot, Demoralise, other class Feats etc.

The only downside is most of that stuff is on the higher optimisation end of game play.

Anyway....

17. Angel Eidolons don't get any interesting actions from their 'subclass'.

18. Beast Eidolons lack the Charisma to effectively Demoralize.

19. Devotion Phantom Eidolon pushes for you to be close to the frontlines, something a Summoner should otherwise avoid at all costs.

20. Devotion Phantom's 17th level aura can't be disabled, and can KO you.

21. Dragon Eidolon's breath weapon is a bit underpowered.

Temperans wrote:

12. Eidolon and Summoner should not be sharing HP. They are separate creatures and should have separate HP pools.

13. Eidolon and Summoner should have different pools of actions. Again they are separate creatures and should be allowed to act independently.

I will note that more many of us (and it is the intention of the design of the class as well) feel that these aren't bugs, but rather features.

PF1 had a way to link the Eidolon and Summoner HP. It was the Life Link ability. It allowed either the Eidolon or the Summoner to transfer HP if the other would die from damage as a free action. PF2 tried to replicate that ability by just making it 1 pool. But it failed to note that the PF1 ability gave you the choice for it to happen.

I am not opposed to Life Link returning. But I am entirely opposed to being forced to share HP.

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Temperans wrote:

12. Eidolon and Summoner should not be sharing HP. They are seperate creatures and should have seperate HP pools.

16. The Summoner is just an extra only there to cast boost eidolon.

This may be true at level 1 I wish there were a few more things native to the class for the summoner to do but from level 2 onwards the summoner has access to all the arctypes and skill Feats, Bon Mot, Demoralise, other class Feats etc.

The only downside is most of that stuff is on the higher optimisation end of game play.

Siegfried the Summoner has no actions to do those in combat since those actions are being used by the Eidolon to attack.

Also Boost Eidolon is a significant part of the eidolon's damage as its currently being done. Even with Act Together the Summoner is strapped for actions.

Temperans wrote:

12. Eidolon and Summoner should not be sharing HP. They are separate creatures and should have separate HP pools.

13. Eidolon and Summoner should have different pools of actions. Again they are separate creatures and should be allowed to act independently.

I will note that more many of us (and it is the intention of the design of the class as well) feel that these aren't bugs, but rather features.

Yeah many more of us dislike the lower survivability of the Summoner; the d10 HP is not enough, it needs more support. I'd be more partial to giving Eidolons HP (Temp HP for Synth) like in 1e.

22. Nothing about the Phantom is Phantom-like.

23. Any condition that limits actions or either the Eidolon or Summoner, makes the other completely immobile for absolutely no reason.

Man, the summoner was so cool in PF1. Now it's just I don't even know. Problematic at best. I figured it would be hard to make this class in PF2. The summoner and magus were both power classes in PF1. Hard to make them even close to what they were without letting them punch a little higher than the standard for balance.

I hope they figure them out and to be better... I loved both classes.

24: Beast Eidolon's Charge currently interferes with Boost Eidolon. There has been more than one instance where the fact that I could not Act Together: Boost/Charge became problematic and clunky, as it either made me have to avoid using Charge due to needing to spend a Stride Action as part of Act Together, or I would be incentivized to Charge first, then Act Together Boost/Strike and only gain the boosted damage on the secondary attack. As is, if the Acg Together mechanic is not updated to allow for actions, I would rather see Beasts Charge be a 1 Action Flourish that only Strides once, so that you can Boost it prior to the first attack.