Pathfinder Adventure Path: Hell's Rebels Player's Guide (PFRPG) PDF

First post! So excited!

Downloaded! We're on our way...

Interesting.
However I think something is missing from the description of Milani's obedience there seems to be no ability granted for performance of the obedience just the extra abilities gained at higher levels or via prestige classes

Wow, this thing is huge for a Player's Guide. It's the size of a full Player's Companion.

Looks amazing! I love how bonuses-for/reasons-to-be-at the first encounter are separate from campaign traits, which hopefully have a longer shelf life.

Interesting.

However I think something is missing from the description of Milani's obedience there seems to be no ability granted for performance of the obedience just the extra abilities gained at higher levels or via prestige classes

I Noticed that as well. I wonder if this is intentional or was just missed in the editing process.

Interesting.

However I think something is missing from the description of Milani's obedience there seems to be no ability granted for performance of the obedience just the extra abilities gained at higher levels or via prestige classes

Ugh... sorry about that. That's my fault... I totally forgot to put it in. I'm talking with folks here to get it put into the PDF.

In the meantime, here's the missing text.

"Gain a +2 sacred bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects, and a +2 sacred bonus on all rolls made to dispel or remove such effects from others."

Thanks for that

Excellent, thanks JJ.

Interesting -- it looks to me like a paladin of Iomedae who is also a Hellknight of the Order of the Godclaw could be a very early casualty of this war. Too bad I have to wait until February (when book 1 of Hell's Vengeance comes out) to sort out the details of that initial battle.

Wow, still going through it, but I wanted to say that this is amazing work so far - background traits, background info, and the rebellion subsystem are all top notch.

This is the most exciting player's guide yet. There's so much here to digest.

Anyone else reading this and feeling like Hell's Rebels is kind of like an afterthought to Hell's Vengeance? Like I'm interested in what's going on in Rebel's but in like the first 2 pages it's basically saying that no this is not a fight Queen Abrignal and topple the Devils story, its what's going on while this other bigger, crazier story is going on far away.

Anyone else getting that?

Anyone else reading this and feeling like Hell's Rebels is kind of like an afterthought to Hell's Vengeance? Like I'm interested in what's going on in Rebel's but in like the first 2 pages it's basically saying that no this is not a fight Queen Abrignal and topple the Devils story, its what's going on while this other bigger, crazier story is going on far away.

Anyone else getting that?

Having spent nearly a year working on Hell's Rebels... I hope not!

That language is specifically in there to manage expectations and coach players into playing characters that are appropriate for the campaign. Members of the Glorious Reclamation are NOT appropriate for Hell's Rebels for two very good reasons:

1) They're lawful, and this campaign works best with non-lawful characters.

2) The rules for the Glorious Reclamation won't be out for another 6 months at minimum.

If what those words do for you is inform you that the Cheliax AP you really want to play is Hell's Vengeance and NOT Hell's Rebels, though... then the words are doing exactly what they're meant to do.

This is a fantastic guide!

doc the grey wrote:

Anyone else reading this and feeling like Hell's Rebels is kind of like an afterthought to Hell's Vengeance? Like I'm interested in what's going on in Rebel's but in like the first 2 pages it's basically saying that no this is not a fight Queen Abrignal and topple the Devils story, its what's going on while this other bigger, crazier story is going on far away.

Anyone else getting that?

Having spent nearly a year working on Hell's Rebels... I hope not!

That language is specifically in there to manage expectations and coach players into playing characters that are appropriate for the campaign. Members of the Glorious Reclamation are NOT appropriate for Hell's Rebels for two very good reasons:

1) They're lawful, and this campaign works best with non-lawful characters.

2) The rules for the Glorious Reclamation won't be out for another 6 months at minimum.

If what those words do for you is inform you that the Cheliax AP you really want to play is Hell's Vengeance and NOT Hell's Rebels, though... then the words are doing exactly what they're meant to do.

Well it's more like I was expecting to finally get a crack at House Thrune in a real way and potentially even a storming of Abrignal and her crew themselves from the year of build up towards this ap. As it stands we've done urban adventure (in Cheliax no less) and done the whole recapture the city and reclaim it for good already. From what had been reported through the last year I had gotten the picture that this would be the time where we get to see that fomenting distrust of Cheliax finally boil over into a full on, nation wide rebellion that would take us to the gates of Egorian and the Thrice Damned house itself, army of angry rebels in tow. Instead it seems we're getting this one contained story about what goes on in Kintargo.

Now don't get me wrong that sounds cool, but not like what it felt like we were promised. What's worse is it seems like a side story to what's going on in Vengeance and like the Shattered Star to Vengeance's Runelord rather than the 1st part of this 2 part narrative. Compounding this is that it seems as if the aforementioned war proper to take down Thrune narrative will be largely handled by the NPCs in the next adventure while PCs finally get a chance at putting the E in their alignment section. That again doesn't sound bad (I totally dig the idea of Paizo taking a crack at a FMG style Way of the Wicked AP) but just feels like another dodge of what has been discussed for the last year.

I'll be honest I was hoping for something a bit more ambitious, but cleaving off a chunk of Chelish territory isn't too bad.

"Gain a +2 sacred bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects, and a +2 sacred bonus on all rolls made to dispel or remove such effects from others."

We've also just added this to the PDF so if you redownload, you should see this correction :)

I'll be honest I was hoping for something a bit more ambitious, but cleaving off a chunk of Chelish territory isn't too bad.

Yeah. I was chomping to see Queen Abrignail and her Pit Fiend companion in a pentacled throne room, spouting bile at my insurrection as we clashed swords in her burning castle at the end of this and from the sounds of it that ain't happening.

Again, still down to do a rebellion story (especially if it can get into the grit and desperation of that whole scenario, especially when devils are the foes) but I feel like I've had the bait and switch pulled on me.

I feel like we've been pretty up front and vocal about this AP not being the "You get to destroy Chelaix" AP... so I guess it's a good thing the player's guide also says as much to let players know what kind of AP it actually is.

If we DID do a "This is the AP where you get to take out Cheliax" I would love to know where we said that so that I can make sure we don't miscommunicate that in the future. But I can't think of where we might have said that, frankly.

AKA: We didn't intend to bait and switch, and I'm pretty sure we did not, and the Player's Guide is the place where we spell things out for players anyway, so I suppose that's a lesson in not making assumptions before the guide is out?

Sorry you feel like you got bait and switched, but I'm not sure I've ever actually baited anyone that this AP is anything more than a Kintargo-based rebellion AP.

I feel like we've been pretty up front and vocal about this AP not being the "You get to destroy Chelaix" AP... so I guess it's a good thing the player's guide also says as much to let players know what kind of AP it actually is.

If we DID do a "This is the AP where you get to take out Cheliax" I would love to know where we said that so that I can make sure we don't miscommunicate that in the future. But I can't think of where we might have said that, frankly.

AKA: We didn't intend to bait and switch, and I'm pretty sure we did not, and the Player's Guide is the place where we spell things out for players anyway, so I suppose that's a lesson in not making assumptions before the guide is out?

Sorry you feel like you got bait and switched, but I'm not sure I've ever actually baited anyone that this AP is anything more than a Kintargo-based rebellion AP.

I got a lot of it from the coverage from Gencon 2014 in particular some of the panels about it during that time. If you'd like I can see if I can find any of the coverage I'm thinking of and throw it to you later.

Either way getting my interest back up in this one might be difficult but I'm interested to see what comes of it. Again, something about the fantasy of running a rebellion meeting the reality of being an enemy of the state in said state has a lot of potential to tell some amazing stories of desperation and triumph especially when your enemies are some of the oldest schemers in creation. I'm just disappointed that it's not what it felt we were promised. I'm hoping to be surprised though.

For anyone who wanted a campaign of overthrowing House Thrune: I would be very surprised if an ambitious GM won't have more than enough material to design such a campaign after all 12 volumes of these next two adventure paths are out.

As a sidenote to the idea of overthrowing House Thrune, should any GMs/Players be interested in such a campaign, there is plenty of background/parallel action going on that could support and enhance such a campaign if only by word of mouth that reaches PCs attempting it. Ex:

1) The goings on in Westcrown that leave a city in the hands of heroic forces (Council of Thieves)
2) The destruction of a large portion of her majesty's navy in southern waters (Skull and Shackles)

Might be some I've missed, too, outside of the APs.

This guide was fantastic. Really excited to get the AP now!

One thing hinted at is the possibility of some underwater action (aquatic elves as a race, aquatic familiars and animal companions listed, aquatic favoured terrain...) which has me very intrigued.

As for the conversation above, I think Paizo have done a great job about communicating what this AP would be. From the start, I thought it was clear that this was an AP about liberating Kintargo from the rule of House Thrune, rather than bringing them down altogether. Interviews, forum posts and the product pages have all given that impression.

As for the conversation above, I think Paizo have done a great job about communicating what this AP would be. From the start, I thought it was clear that this was an AP about liberating Kintargo from the rule of House Thrune, rather than bringing them down altogether. Interviews, forum posts and the product pages have all given that impression.

Yeah, they said from the start that this wasn't the Devil version of Wrath of the Righteous.

Campaign Traits and modified Noble Scion feat: no option to play a rebelious Thrune?

This guide was fantastic. Really excited to get the AP now!

One thing hinted at is the possibility of some underwater action (aquatic elves as a race, aquatic familiars and animal companions listed, aquatic favoured terrain...) which has me very intrigued.

As for the conversation above, I think Paizo have done a great job about communicating what this AP would be. From the start, I thought it was clear that this was an AP about liberating Kintargo from the rule of House Thrune, rather than bringing them down altogether. Interviews, forum posts and the product pages have all given that impression.

I agree with this.

Super excited for this one, and just in time for me to be able to restart my sub as well!

And yes, I've been following the info for this AP since its announcement last year, and I've always understood it to be strictly Kintargo-based.

Can't wait for Volume 1!

Thanks, folks! I always thought that we were pretty clear about getting the right message out there. We put a lot of thought into how to present Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance, and it looks like for the most part it's worked.

@doc the grey: Sorry if anything we said misconstrued our plans. I hope you check out both APs because there's a lot of cool stuff in both of them. If you like gritty-fighting-against-the-man style urban adventures, I think you'll be happy with Hell's Rebels.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited for what Hell's Rebels is. Honestly between this, Council of Thieves and Skull and Shackles, if run in tandem Cheliax is having a bad time. In the particular timeline that exists in my group's adventure paths Cheliax is going to have a bad time.

Oh, Hell yeah! A GM could gather all those sources and run a killer campaign in Cheliax. If you do something like this, post a campaign journal thread if you can manage the time. I'd love to see how it plays out.

I understand the frustration. I, too, would love an AP where we get to topple Cheliax once and for all. After all, if we get a chance to

But having said that, I think Paizo has been clear and up front all along that this is just a piddly little Kintargo focused thing, that and that alone. While I would've liked bigger, my expectations had been expertly managed by the company.

The plans were not misconstrued. People either believe what they want to despite the info that is put out, or they simply miss most of the info. I love the look of the path so far.

shadram wrote:

As for the conversation above, I think Paizo have done a great job about communicating what this AP would be. From the start, I thought it was clear that this was an AP about liberating Kintargo from the rule of House Thrune, rather than bringing them down altogether. Interviews, forum posts and the product pages have all given that impression.

Yeah, they said from the start that this wasn't the Devil version of Wrath of the Righteous.

Campaign Traits and modified Noble Scion feat: no option to play a rebelious Thrune?

Not as written. A GM can adjust so it's possible, I suppose, but there may be some elements of the AP that might function weirdly if a PC is a Thrune...

I understand the frustration. I, too, would love an AP where we get to topple Cheliax once and for all. After all, if we get a chance to ** spoiler omitted **, then clearly big changes aren't completely off the table.

But having said that, I think Paizo has been clear and up front all along that this is just a piddly little Kintargo focused thing, that and that alone. While I would've liked bigger, my expectations had been expertly managed by the company.

Indeed, I also was expecting just to deal with liberating Kintargo and maybe a little in the concluding this adventure section for the DM who does want the party to take a proper crack at the Queen.

Gars DarkLover wrote:

shadram wrote:

As for the conversation above, I think Paizo have done a great job about communicating what this AP would be. From the start, I thought it was clear that this was an AP about liberating Kintargo from the rule of House Thrune, rather than bringing them down altogether. Interviews, forum posts and the product pages have all given that impression.

Yeah, they said from the start that this wasn't the Devil version of Wrath of the Righteous.

Campaign Traits and modified Noble Scion feat: no option to play a rebelious Thrune?

Not as written. A GM can adjust so it's possible, I suppose, but there may be some elements of the AP that might function weirdly if a PC is a Thrune...

Would make a few things easier at first (lot of places where one can use the front door), then quite harder (ending up with one Hell of a bounty, or 666).

Okay, read the guide, and I'm very positively disposed towards Hell's Rebels. It seems like FOR ONCE, I'm gonna get an AP where I can actually 1) do downtime activities (I didn't buy Ultimate Campaign just for kindling, dammit) and 2) build relationships with NPCs over multiple books. Also extremely happy about all the attention given to managerial/leadership skills and their consequences. It seems like for once, a player can play a mastermind type instead of a brute force thug. And finally, the information on being a member of a Kintargo noble house is also awesome. I can't wait to build my high-Cha noble scion mastermind now. Maybe Calistrian...that hook about the church being leaderless right now is making me drool.

Thanks, folks! I always thought that we were pretty clear about getting the right message out there. We put a lot of thought into how to present Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance, and it looks like for the most part it's worked.

@doc the grey: Sorry if anything we said misconstrued our plans. I hope you check out both APs because there's a lot of cool stuff in both of them. If you like gritty-fighting-against-the-man style urban adventures, I think you'll be happy with Hell's Rebels.

Thanks man and I am intrigued, I'm just sad that it's at least another year before that story potentially comes to light T-T. Hoping we get one soon though, as Dudemeister has pointed out we have a lot of APs that have been setting up Cheliax for that fall and doing some sort of Shattered Star esque finale to all of it around Council of Thieves, Skull & Shackles, and Hell's Rebels, and Hell's Vengeance could really be something.

There's no reason why the GM can't create a new plot arc after the last volume of Hell's Rebels in which the PCs are all, "At last, Kintargo has been liberated and Barzallai Thrune is dead. Now, it's time to march on Egorian...and end this once and for all!"

Thing is... with the 2nd AP being all about working for the queen, I was just really NOT interested in having one AP be the one that officially makes another one the "loser AP" in which the heroes of another AP win and undo everything. Likewise, I didn't want Hell's Vengeance to be one that undid all the hard work the PCs do in Hell's Rebels.

So the two APs take place simultaneously but in different parts of Cheliax that don't cross. Both APs will have brief notes in the Continuing The Campaign articles to help GMs stage a crossover. Which means you COULD run both and then fight both parties of PCs against each other...

Okay, read the guide, and I'm very positively disposed towards Hell's Rebels. It seems like FOR ONCE, I'm gonna get an AP where I can actually 1) do downtime activities (I didn't buy Ultimate Campaign just for kindling, dammit) and 2) build relationships with NPCs over multiple books. Also extremely happy about all the attention given to managerial/leadership skills and their consequences. It seems like for once, a player can play a mastermind type instead of a brute force thug. And finally, the information on being a member of a Kintargo noble house is also awesome. I can't wait to build my high-Cha noble scion mastermind now. Maybe Calistrian...that hook about the church being leaderless right now is making me drool.

You'll want to make sure your GM knows what parts and what hooks catch your interest, of course. We try to follow up on most of them in the AP, but some are more directly supported than others, and making sure your GM knows what you want to pursue will help her bolster the AP as needed.

Just downloaded it, will give it a thorough read later.
All I can say for now is the interior page art is great!

Ruyan.

This does look cool, but the way the stuff is described kinda makes me want to play part of the glorious reclamation more (not in this AP but I'm disappointed if they're only there to be the antagonists in the next one).

It's a great time for having larger than usual free stuff :)

I already said this to James off-boards but it deserves reiterating:

The mechanics for running a rebellion are fantastic! I'm really impressed and incredibly excited to use these, not only in Hell's Rebels, but modified for use in other campaigns as well!

I quite enjoyed this players guide, well done again guys. However I find myself wishing the next two APs were swapped, an evil campaign where the PCs take over a single city, basically using it as their personal playground, seems more intriguing.

But more importantly, I want to take part in the Glorious Reclamation, to sing the song of valor, freedom, and unity as we remove the fiendish taint from Cheliax, and cast down House Thrune into the fiery chasm from whence it came.

For an AP to actually have a great and lasting change upon the official setting. This would be my most anticipated AP since Kingmaker (and probably my favorite since Runelords) if that were the case. As it stands now, it feels like a "we are going to let you cause a little benevolent anarchy in one isolated location, followed immediately by a grand sweeping campaign to return things to the status quo" type situation.

I kind of agree, wishing that the two would have been swapped a bit. I kind of get the impression that the Glorious Reclamation is just getting set up to be, well, much less cool that it seems in this one.

Andoran influence/reaction/instigation also seems to be surprisingly absent, while a few of the NPCs are already sending up red flags (for DM NPCs to steal the spotlight).

Why remove fiendish glory, when we need to expand it?

It seems from the rebellion rules that some rebellions might have more teams than actions, especially if lots of the party takes Leadership. What do the teams that don't get ordered to take an action do in the weeks when this happens, or am I missing something in the rebellion rules? Do they Lie Low to no effect? Do they disband? Is there a cost to maintain them, and can they generate Notoriety just not acting?

EDIT:
I think I might alter Lie Low to Lie Low (No Action Required) and allow each team that takes it to reduce Notoriety by 1. Or maybe create a new action:
Backup (No Action Required): The team stands ready to perform another team's action, if that team becomes Disabled or Missing due to Events. The action this team backs up must be one it is able to perform, and only performs it if the lead team is unable, not if that team fails any related check. Or maybe have it be like Aid Another. Thoughts

It seems from the rebellion rules that some rebellions might have more teams than actions, especially if lots of the party takes Leadership. What do the teams that don't get ordered to take an action do in the weeks when this happens, or am I missing something in the rebellion rules? Do they Lie Low to no effect? Do they disband? Is there a cost to maintain them, and can they generate Notoriety?

If you don't send a team on a specific task, they don't do anything at all, but neither do they disband. There is no cost to maintain teams, since they're all in the revolution on a volunteer basis. There's not an option to generate Notoriety as a team but there'll be plenty of ways to earn it during the adventures themselves.

logic_poet wrote:

It seems from the rebellion rules that some rebellions might have more teams than actions, especially if lots of the party takes Leadership. What do the teams that don't get ordered to take an action do in the weeks when this happens, or am I missing something in the rebellion rules? Do they Lie Low to no effect? Do they disband? Is there a cost to maintain them, and can they generate Notoriety?

If you don't send a team on a specific task, they don't do anything at all, but neither do they disband. There is no cost to maintain teams, since they're all in the revolution on a volunteer basis. There's not an option to generate Notoriety as a team but there'll be plenty of ways to earn it during the adventures themselves.

That's simple enough. I was just worried that they could generate Notoriety and create an incentive to have fewer teams than your maximum. Probably best to name this Await Orders or something, should this be reprinted someday.