Pathfinder Player Companion: Monster Summoner's Handbook (PFRPG)

Is Banishing Critical the same as the feat by the same name in Blood of Angels?

If so that is kinda lame considering the feat can be found online instantly. For example, here:

Archives of Nethys

Coulda used that feat space for something new and not a reprint.

No, it is a different feat. Still, it seems like we are finding one re-used name per book these days. It really should be pretty easy for the authors to check Archives of Nethys to avoid that kind of confusion.

Is Banishing Critical the same as the feat by the same name in Blood of Angels?

If so that is kinda lame considering the feat can be found online instantly. For example, here:

Archives of Nethys

Coulda used that feat space for something new and not a reprint.

It's more likely another Wild Caller. ^_^

I just want to know what new ways are there to summon monsters as a standard action. What about those tattoo feats? Are those valid?

Okay so I am told this is a succubus, and not an incubus, so... um... why is there a male succubus when incubus exist? Sure, a succubus CAN take male form technically, but why is it so wrong that when I see this I think "oh it's an incubus not a succubus"?

Incubus or Succubus?

Succubi in Pathfinder are about seduction and luring the innocent into the sin of lust. They're more manipulative and magic-focused in combat.

Incubi in Pathfinder are much more forceful and impatient and are NOT about seduction. They're more melee-focused in combat.

This illustration is certainly more on the seduction side, therefore it's a more accurate representation of a succubus. Whether she used her change self ability to appear as a demonic humanoid or whether she used some other method to attain a masculine form is kinda irrelevant without the character being associated with a story, though.

I just want to know what new ways are there to summon monsters as a standard action. What about those tattoo feats? Are those valid?

Tattoo Attunement will let you bring out the stored summon monster out as a standard action and can hold a single summoned creature for hour per level. So you can summon a monster before going into an enemy base and then store him as a standard action. Then when you get into a fight, you can bring out the the stored creature as a standard action.

Besides that and I think the Inquisitor archetype, there are no new ways of summoning creatures as a Std Action.

Thank you for the Dispel Focus feats. I think the game has needed those for a long time, considering the failure chance of Dispel Magic, and the fact that you are always going up against casters stronger than yourself.

I am also very excited to have a Summon Bane weapon.

I do wish Banishing Critical would have been open to bards. I love the idea of a halfling bard knowing exactly where to poke the huge summoned creature with his tiny rapier to make it pop. It also would have thematically worked very nicely with the Arcane Duelist archetype. (We will soon be up to 35 classes, so why make such a feat so specific to one?)

Spell Perfection(G. Dispel Magic) and those feats plus Varisian Tattoo equals a +10 bonus on dispel checks... I can't wait to abjure again.

I see. Well, for clerics with the Sacred Summons feat, are there enough new creatures on the lists that chaotic/neutral/lawful good clerics won't be forced to just use the same small set of creatures over and over again? It's kind of baffling how much better evil cleric summoners are than good or especially neutral ones owing to how lopsided the lists are.

It requires a feat to get more monsters added to your summon monster list either way... If the Summon Good Monster feat from Champions of Purity doesn't give you enough good options for Sacred Summons, this book will not really provide very many more with the Expanded Summon Monster feat.

Bah. Looks like I'll be playing a Lawful Neutral cleric of a Lawful Evil god again, then.

Is there anything for Old Cultists or Night Heralds? Anything to summon weird aliens or aberrations?

Is there anything for Old Cultists or Night Heralds? Anything to summon weird aliens or aberrations?

Unfortunately, not that I recall. I'd love to see more of that myself. ^_^

If we're lucky, maybe we'll see a Player Companion focused on that someday - including Unchained aberrant-eidolon support.

Unfortunately, not that I recall. I'd love to see more of that myself. ^_^

Thanks. And crud. When I read "...benign or malevolent, divine or alien" in the description, I was hoping that alien meant actual pop culture aliens.

Kalindlara wrote:

Unfortunately, not that I recall. I'd love to see more of that myself. ^_^

Thanks. And crud. When I read "...benign or malevolent, divine or alien" in the description, I was hoping that alien meant actual pop culture aliens.

Nope. Sorry.

That said, Bestiary 5 should scratch your itch nicely! ^_^

That said, Bestiary 5 should scratch your itch nicely! ^_^

Oh I'm quite satisfied with the selection of Mythos-type monsters present in Pathfinder. What I want, is a way for a character to summon those horrors from beyond and have them do his/her bidding.

I can only hope that one day, Paizo puts out an adventure - or, Cthulhu willing, an Adventure Path - where cultists of Things That Should Not Be are the main antagonists. Cultists who, with a spell, can call forth gugs, mi-go, lunarmas, and whatnot.

For what it's worth, there is already an option like this. It requires a spellcaster to have a section of the book Secrets of the Dreaming Dark, from Occult Mysteries. But I'd like that same ability in feat or archetype form.

I actually do have a Mythos-summoning character, but that's entirely a homebrew thing, where I modified the list with abberations and mythos monsters that have appeared in the bestiaries. XD Still, I definitely wouldn't mind seeing a number of official summoning lists focused around various themes.

(As far as adventures go, I also have a strong preference for Mythos beings as a major CN power, rather than the CE foes often fought, since that helps emphasize how little they notice or care about what mortals are doing.)

Is a summoner allowed to summon a guardian spirit with their summoner monster spell-like ability?

Just asking, what details does this book give us on conjuring and summoning focused groups in Golarion? Do they say anything about the old Sarkorian god-callers, like whether or not that was something common to other Kellid cultures such as the Numerians?

Just asking, what details does this book give us on conjuring and summoning focused groups in Golarion? Do they say anything about the old Sarkorian god-callers, like whether or not that was something common to other Kellid cultures such as the Numerians?

Unfortunately, there isn't a new info in that section. It is essentially a brief explanation of who the groups and nations are and how they make use of summoning or have been affected by it. The entries are no more than a few sentences each and all the information presented can be found in other sources (ISWG, etc.).

They do, however, feature a new trait to better accommodate your character as someone whom is part of these groups or hails from these nations.

If you're interested in knowing what groups are presented, I've provided that info in the spoiler below.

Can the guardian spirit template be applied to a summoner's eidilan?

Can the guardian spirit template be applied to a summoner's eidilan?

No, it's specifically tied to summon monster and summon nature's ally.

Can the guardian spirit template be applied to a summoner's eidilan?

Actually it more along the lines of a very limited way for others to get that. Not particularly great for Summoners, but it doe allow others to be able to add a single monster (limited to Improved Familiar options) to their SM/SNA 3 list and benefits for summoning that creature. One is that it allows you to specifically summon that individual creature (rather than a random one of it's kind). Reminds me a lot of the Summoning variant option in 3.5 Unearthed Arcana, which was cool.

All in all it's not terribly useful for most Summoners, but pretty good for anyone else that can Summon, but virtue of allowing limited ability of what the Summoner can already do. Even maxed out, it's still weaker than what the Summoner can already do, but it is an option the Summoner can take for a tad more variety, just not as cool for them as everyone else because it really just touches on what they can normally do.

An exception would be a Summoner Archtype that reduces or removes the Eidolon.

This would have been an amazing thing for the Lantern Archon. :(

It's not entirely clear on a few things. For instance, it specifies that it adds that creature to your Summon Monster 3 list (or Nature's Ally), but what if, like the Celestial Eagle (or Hawk as is incorrectly listed) it's already there? Do you have it on two lists now? This could also apply when some "priests" get access to a certain creature which might cross over. Not sure if there is a case off hand.

Does the Summon Monster 1 version count for Guardian Spirit status?

How does this work with the Homunculus, who normally you have to first create via Craft Construct?

Finally, how does this work when you use a higher level Summoning Spell to call multiples of that creature?

I'm a little bit leary on the Herald Caller as well. Was it intentional to actually reduce their ability to Summon Monster? I'm not sure if this line "A herald caller can use summon monster spells only to summon creatures particularly appropriate to her deity." followed by the more specific rules: Elementals if they have a given Domain, are on the special list, or "creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment". Adding a Celestial (or other Template) DOES NOT CHANGE THIER ALIGNMENT. This is very similar to the confusion around the Sacred Summons Feat.

By a strict reading, it looks like said Cleric would also loose ALL Celestial Creatures (the Celestial Template does not change their actual Alignment to Good), and not be left with any options on the Level 1 list to add the Celestial Template too. Likewise, they would not be able to utilize the Entropic, Fiendish, or Resolute Template, (but then again, they have no actual animals to pick from to apply them to anyway).

Is that correct???

Obviously that same ability grants the ability to apply the Resolute and Entropic Template, instead of Celestial or Fiendish, but also seems to say that they can't actually do that if they loose all of those animals completely.

And what happens with say a Battle Herald of Eristal who has the Animal Domain. Shouldn't ALL Animals be appropriate?

So a Level 1 Summon Monster list for a Battle Herald of Sarenrae, (just an example), Removes all non-Fire Elementals, all creatures whose Alignment is not Good, and also any creautes not called out on the Expanded Summon Monster List for the Deity (none).

Not including any extra creautres added from other books:
On the Summon Monster 1 List that's nothing at all.
On the Summon Monster 2 List that only leaves the Small Fire Elemental.
On the Summon Monster 3 List that's only the Lantern Archon.
On the Summon Monster 4 List that's only the Medium Fire Elemental and Hound Archon.

Later levels look similar with only a few Good Outsiders and Fire Elementals, and the 3 specific Sarenrae creatures on the 6th, 7th, and 9th level list.

It also seems a bit odd that they loose both Medium Armor and also Shields. Should probably be one or the other, as the Archtype seems like it needs to be right in the middle of things with it's expanded Channel Energy and Short Range of Summon Monster Spells.

Honestly, I have no idea what the intent here is. RAW, this seems to make the Herald Caller the single worst Summoner there is. What was the RAI?

In the section on "Further Expanding Summoning Lists", there is a sentence that begins as follows: "In particular, look for spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components".

Since summoned creatures are already forbidden by the rules for the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally spells from casting spells or using spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components, why would having such abilities affect the suitability of a monster to be added to a summoning list?

bump
:)

^^^^^ did not notice that. So, what he said.

Does the Battle Companion warpriest major blessing count as a spell-like ability for the purpose of summoning a Guardian Spirit?

Does the Battle Companion warpriest major blessing count as a spell-like ability for the purpose of summoning a Guardian Spirit?

As written, I do not see any reason it would not.

The Blessing emulates Summon Monster specifically, so it looks like it would work. But as a Warpriest can also cast the spells, it might be better of going that route much earlier on, and having the Blessings get another cool boost later.

I wouldn't think most Warpriests would want to outside of a few cases, as again the selection of creatures is only those that are acceptable as Improved Familiars.

So, basically what the Feat does is allow you to add a specific monster (that is one that could be taken as an Improved Familiar, but it doesn't require YOU to take it or qualify) to your Summon Monster List. When you do and you use that option, you summon that specific creature, not just one of it's kind. It makes it a 1 Min/Level spell, only for that creature, and by bumping the Summon Monster # up (begins at 3), you can sort of Level up the Gaurdian Spirit.

The true benefit a Warpriest would get is that their Blessing is not a Full Round casting, (but we are talking late game here), but it only applies to that one singular creature.

So, say you pick a Celestial Eagle/Hawk, which is a valid option for Improved Familiar. You do not just Summon a random Celestial Eagle, you Summon Blood Eagle, scourge of the 55 seas, grandparent of blah, blah, blah, founder of the Eidolon Strike Union, pink-feathered eye-nibbler, and your great, great grandfather's reincarnated spirit.

Every time you use Summon Monster 3 to call a Celestial Eagle, you instead get Blood Eagle, who remembers everything from the last time you summoned him/her. If you decide to spend some more time and effort with Blood Eagle, you can add a bit more to him, but it bumps him/her up to a Summon Monster 4 spell (permanently). All the way up to Summon Monster 9.

It kind of works well with the Warpriest Blessing, in a sense, as it too increases as they level up. But, it really depends a lot on how important you find Blood Eagle. Like everything else, this book seems to really favor Evil or no alignment over everything else, with Good characters coming in last.

I'm a little bit leary on the Herald Caller as well. Was it intentional to actually reduce their ability to Summon Monster? I'm not sure if this line "A herald caller can use summon monster spells only to summon creatures particularly appropriate to her deity." followed by the more specific rules: Elementals if they have a given Domain, are on the special list, or "creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment". Adding a Celestial (or other Template) DOES NOT CHANGE THIER ALIGNMENT. This is very similar to the confusion around the Sacred Summons Feat.

By a strict reading, it looks like said Cleric would also loose ALL Celestial Creatures (the Celestial Template does not change their actual Alignment to Good), and not be left with any options on the Level 1 list to add the Celestial Template too. Likewise, they would not be able to utilize the Entropic, Fiendish, or Resolute Template, (but then again, they have no actual animals to pick from to apply them to anyway).

Is that correct???

Obviously that same ability grants the ability to apply the Resolute and Entropic Template, instead of Celestial or Fiendish, but also seems to say that they can't actually do that if they loose all of those animals completely.

And what happens with say a Battle Herald of Eristal who has the Animal Domain. Shouldn't ALL Animals be appropriate?

So a Level 1 Summon Monster list for a Battle Herald of Sarenrae, (just an example), Removes all non-Fire Elementals, all creatures whose Alignment is not Good, and also any creautes not called out on the Expanded Summon Monster List for the Deity (none).

Not including any extra creautres added from other books:
On the Summon Monster 1 List that's nothing at all.
On the Summon Monster 2 List that only leaves the Small Fire Elemental.
On the Summon Monster 3 List that's only the Lantern Archon.
On the Summon Monster 4 List that's only the Medium Fire Elemental and Hound Archon.

Later levels...

As too the templates, it seems you do get to add the priest lists to your list of summons so if have one that gives animals than a few would get to use that ability.

I just got the PDF and I am definitely getting the hardcopy! This is something I've been waiting for, for a long time. I love the idea for the Guardian Spirit, the various feats (especially Scouting Summons and the tattoo feats), the information on binding and calling, the new monsters available to divine casters, all of it's wonderful.

I'd like to know why Expanded Summon Monster doesn't let you summon psychopomps, or am I missing them? Maybe Pharasma keeps them too busy to let them go running off when a summoner whistles?

And I wish we could have gotten something allowing Unchained summoners to have eidolons more than one alignment step away. Say, a good summoner trying to redeem their demon or devil buddy, or an evil one trying to corrupt that angel or agathion. And maybe some hints on just what exactly the eidolon gets out of the relationship with the summoner. Is it just for the chance to visit the material plane regularly, do they somehow get stronger by doing this, or do they just like the sumoner they're working with?

It's not entirely clear on a few things. For instance, it specifies that it adds that creature to your Summon Monster 3 list (or Nature's Ally), but what if, like the Celestial Eagle (or Hawk as is incorrectly listed) it's already there? Do you have it on two lists now? This could also apply when some "priests" get access to a certain creature which might cross over. Not sure if there is a case off hand.

Your guardian spirit is one, specific creature. Even if it's a version of something you could already summon, you add your specific guardian spirit (which has a template no other creature does) to your summoning list, and get special benefits when you summon it 9and only when you summon exactly it, not creatures like it but without the template).

Does the Summon Monster 1 version count for Guardian Spirit status?

That's covered. Your guardian spirit starts at the 5th level summon spell. There are ways to move it up the list of summoning spells, but not down. So no, it's never something you summon with summon monster I.

How does this work with the Homunculus, who normally you have to first create via Craft Construct?

If you take the Summon Guardian Spirit feat and pick a homunculus, your guardian spirit manifests in a homunculus. You didn't actually build one, that's just the form your spirit takes.

Finally, how does this work when you use a higher level Summoning Spell to call multiples of that creature?

Again, only the guardian spirit itself grants bonuses and, as the feat states "multiple versions of it can't be summoned."

I'm a little bit leary on the Herald Caller as well. Was it intentional to actually reduce their ability to Summon Monster? I'm not sure if this line "A herald caller can use summon monster spells only to summon creatures particularly appropriate to her deity." followed by the more specific rules: Elementals if they have a given Domain, are on the special list, or "creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment". Adding a Celestial (or other Template) DOES NOT CHANGE THIER ALIGNMENT. This is very similar to the confusion around the Sacred Summons Feat.

No confusion, and entirely as intended. That means clerics of neutral, neutral good, and neutral evil deities make better herald callers, since more things are true neutral (and thus share one aspect of their deity's alignment).

And what happens with say a Battle Herald of Eristal who has the Animal Domain. Shouldn't ALL Animals be appropriate?

You'd think druids might worship Eristil as well, but any who do aren't able to be LG.

It also seems a bit odd that they loose both Medium Armor and also Shields. Should probably be one or the other, as the Archtype seems like it needs to be right in the middle of things with it's expanded Channel Energy and Short Range of Summon Monster Spells.

It's channel energy works for summoned creatures "even if they are out of her normal channel energy radius." So the herald called doesn't have to be anywhere near them. And summoned creatures can move beyond the range of summoning spells. So the herald caller has a good incentive to not be in the middle of things.

Since summoned creatures are already forbidden by the rules for the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally spells from casting spells or using spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components, why would having such abilities affect the suitability of a monster to be added to a summoning list?

Two ideas got rammed together there, and it's unfortunate, but the advice itself is not wrong.

1. At-will abilities can throw things off.
2. Creatures that depend on abilities with expensive material components may not work well for summoned creatures, as they can't use those abilities.

Clearly those ideas got muddled, and that's likely my fault. Luckily, it's still good advice for a GM to carefully consider such creatures before adding them to a summoning list.

Does the Battle Companion warpriest major blessing count as a spell-like ability for the purpose of summoning a Guardian Spirit?

It's (Sp), so yes.

I'd like to know why Expanded Summon Monster doesn't let you summon psychopomps, or am I missing them? Maybe Pharasma keeps them too busy to let them go running off when a summoner whistles?

Basically, yes, Pharasma keeps them too busy. As do, I suppose, summoners who take Summon Neutral Creature. But the decisions was made from a Golarion-lore perspective that most people can't summon psycopomps without being priests of Pharasma, so they were removed from the list.

And I wish we could have gotten something allowing Unchained summoners to have eidolons more than one alignment step away. Say, a good summoner trying to redeem their demon or devil buddy, or an evil one trying to corrupt that angel or agathion. And maybe some hints on just what exactly the eidolon gets out of the relationship with the summoner. Is it just for the chance to visit the material plane regularly, do they somehow get stronger by doing this, or do they just like the sumoner they're working with?

Those are neat ideas, but for Unchained I didn't have time to do more than make sure all the options were dual-summoner-compatible, and going into the summoner-eidolon relationship was beyond the scope of what I had room for.

Is a summoner allowed to summon a guardian spirit with their summoner monster spell-like ability?

?????

Eric Hinkle wrote:

And I wish we could have gotten something allowing Unchained summoners to have eidolons more than one alignment step away. Say, a good summoner trying to redeem their demon or devil buddy, or an evil one trying to corrupt that angel or agathion. And maybe some hints on just what exactly the eidolon gets out of the relationship with the summoner. Is it just for the chance to visit the material plane regularly, do they somehow get stronger by doing this, or do they just like the sumoner they're working with?

Those are neat ideas, but for Unchained I didn't have time to do more than make sure all the options were dual-summoner-compatible, and going into the summoner-eidolon relationship was beyond the scope of what I had room for.

Dang, now I'm hoping that there is sometimes in distant future eidolon related player's companion book xD

Would be a good way to include fay(since first worlder isn't legal anymore) and shadow plane eidolons legal for pfs <_< And maybe a way to create animal/vermin eidolon without it having to be celestial or fiendish

...Speaking of outsider types, is shadow plane only plane whose outsider type isn't represented in unchained eidolon options? Why is that?(then again, only way to get shadowy eidolon was fetchling archetype iirc... So maybe thats why? To keep archetype unique?)

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Eric Hinkle wrote:

And I wish we could have gotten something allowing Unchained summoners to have eidolons more than one alignment step away. Say, a good summoner trying to redeem their demon or devil buddy, or an evil one trying to corrupt that angel or agathion. And maybe some hints on just what exactly the eidolon gets out of the relationship with the summoner. Is it just for the chance to visit the material plane regularly, do they somehow get stronger by doing this, or do they just like the sumoner they're working with?

Those are neat ideas, but for Unchained I didn't have time to do more than make sure all the options were dual-summoner-compatible, and going into the summoner-eidolon relationship was beyond the scope of what I had room for.

Dang, now I'm hoping that there is sometimes in distant future eidolon related player's companion book xD

Would be a good way to include fay(since first worlder isn't legal anymore) and shadow plane eidolons legal for pfs <_< And maybe a way to create animal/vermin eidolon without it having to be celestial or fiendish

...Speaking of outsider types, is shadow plane only plane whose outsider type isn't represented in unchained eidolon options? Why is that?(then again, only way to get shadowy eidolon was fetchling archetype iirc... So maybe thats why? To keep archetype unique?)

Nah, shadow plane definitely isn't the only one who isn't represented. We've got the Abyss (Demons), Abaddon (Daemons, Divs), Axis (Inevitables), the Boneyard (Psychopomps), the Elemental Plane of Air/Earth/Fire/Water (Elementals), Elysium (Angel, Azata), Heaven (Angel, Archon), Hell (Devils), Nirvana (Agathion, Angel), and the Maelstrom (Proteans). But we don't have anything for the Astral Plane, the Dimension of Dreams, the Ethereal Plane, the First World, the Negative Energy Plane, the Positive Energy Plane, or the Shadow Plane...of course, most of these are because there isn't a race of outsiders that covers a range of CRs native to those planes for the most part, I imagine. Perhaps kytons for the Plane of Shadow...though I'd be more partial to something along the lines of the shae, myself, but they don't cover a multitude of forms and CRs like kytons do, alas.

I've been saying that we need kytons ever since I got a look at Unchained. In a perfect world, though, we'd have both kytons and shadow eidolons.

DM Beckett wrote:

I'm a little bit leary on the Herald Caller as well. Was it intentional to actually reduce their ability to Summon Monster? I'm not sure if this line "A herald caller can use summon monster spells only to summon creatures particularly appropriate to her deity." followed by the more specific rules: Elementals if they have a given Domain, are on the special list, or "creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment". Adding a Celestial (or other Template) DOES NOT CHANGE THIER ALIGNMENT. This is very similar to the confusion around the Sacred Summons Feat.

No confusion, and entirely as intended. That means clerics of neutral, neutral good, and neutral evil deities make better herald callers, since more things are true neutral (and thus share one aspect of their deity's alignment).

DM Beckett wrote:

And what happens with say a Battle Herald of Eristal who has the Animal Domain. Shouldn't ALL Animals be appropriate?

You'd think druids might worship Eristil as well, but any who do aren't able to be LG.

DM Beckett wrote:

It also seems a bit odd that they loose both Medium Armor and also Shields. Should probably be one or the other, as the Archtype seems like it needs to be right in the middle of things with it's expanded Channel Energy and Short Range of Summon Monster Spells.

It's channel energy works for summoned creatures "even if they are out of her normal channel energy radius." So the herald called doesn't have to be anywhere near them. And summoned creatures can move beyond the range of summoning spells. So the herald caller has a good incentive to not be in the middle of things.

So sarenrae clerics can summon animals and than apply templates. I see that now, Thanks!!

It's not entirely clear on a few things. For instance, it specifies that it adds that creature to your Summon Monster 3 list (or Nature's Ally), but what if, like the Celestial Eagle (or Hawk as is incorrectly listed) it's already there? Do you have it on two lists now? This could also apply when some "priests" get access to a certain creature which might cross over. Not sure if there is a case off hand.

Your guardian spirit is one, specific creature. Even if it's a version of something you could already summon, you add your specific guardian spirit (which has a template no other creature does) to your summoning list, and get special benefits when you summon it 9and only when you summon exactly it, not creatures like it but without the template).

Does the Summon Monster 1 version count for Guardian Spirit status?

That's covered. Your guardian spirit starts at the 5th level summon spell. There are ways to move it up the list of summoning spells, but not down. So no, it's never something you summon with summon monster I.

What I'm a little confused on is, lets say I took the Guardian Spirit Feat. <Actually I just noticed that the Template, but not the Feat itself specifies it can only be applied to Outsiders and Fey, so it doesn't look like Celestial, Entropic, Fiendish, or Resolute Template creatures count, nor does the Homunculus> Lets say I took the Guardian Spirit Feat, and for the sake of argument I picked Celestial Eagle, and am capable of casting up to Summon Monster 4.

Normally, if you use a higher level Summon spell to get creatures off of the lower level spell list, you get multiple of them, potentially. So, assuming they have not done the ritual to increase the applicable Summon Monster Guardian Spirit spell, <is it default 3 or 5?>, and they opt to Summon multiple Celestial Eagles, rolling 2, do they Summon their Guardian Spirit and one other Celestial Eagle? Are they forbidden from doing this?

How does this work with the Homunculus, who normally you have to first create via Craft Construct?

If you take the Summon Guardian Spirit feat and pick a homunculus, your guardian spirit manifests in a homunculus. You didn't actually build one, that's just the form your spirit takes.

As above, I just noticed that the Guardian Spirit Template only applies to Outsiders and Fey type creatures. Was that a mistake? Because Celestial (or the other three alignment equivalents) do not actually become Outsiders, it seems that they are valid choices for the Feat, but can not actually benefit from it. Similarly with the Homunculus.

It's unclear then, if you could choose a Homunculus for the Feat, and still be able to Summon that one particular one as a Summon Monster 3 spell that last 1 Min/Level or if they would not be allowed at all?

No confusion, and entirely as intended. That means clerics of neutral, neutral good, and neutral evil deities make better herald callers, since more things are true neutral (and thus share one aspect of their deity's alignment).

Ok, so a Herald Caller can Summon a Celestial Eagle, and can opt to make it a Entropic or Resolute creature?

Oh, now I see my mistake. It's actually under the Summon Monster spell, where it specifies that Summoned creatures marked with the (*), for the Celestial or Fiendish Template DO in fact change their alignment to match the caster, while normally the Template does not.

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I'd like to know why Expanded Summon Monster doesn't let you summon psychopomps, or am I missing them? Maybe Pharasma keeps them too busy to let them go running off when a summoner whistles?

Basically, yes, Pharasma keeps them too busy. As do, I suppose, summoners who take Summon Neutral Creature. But the decisions was made from a Golarion-lore perspective that most people can't summon psycopomps without being priests of Pharasma, so they were removed from the list.

Eric Hinkle wrote:

And I wish we could have gotten something allowing Unchained summoners to have eidolons more than one alignment step away. Say, a good summoner trying to redeem their demon or devil buddy, or an evil one trying to corrupt that angel or agathion. And maybe some hints on just what exactly the eidolon gets out of the relationship with the summoner. Is it just for the chance to visit the material plane regularly, do they somehow get stronger by doing this, or do they just like the sumoner they're working with?

Those are neat ideas, but for Unchained I didn't have time to do more than make sure all the options were dual-summoner-compatible, and going into the summoner-eidolon relationship was beyond the scope of what I had room for.

Thanks for the response and for clearing up my question about the psychopomps.

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

No confusion, and entirely as intended. That means clerics of neutral, neutral good, and neutral evil deities make better herald callers, since more things are true neutral (and thus share one aspect of their deity's alignment).

Ok, so a Herald Caller can Summon a Celestial Eagle, and can opt to make it a Entropic or Resolute creature?

Oh, now I see my mistake. It's actually under the Summon Monster spell, where it specifies that Summoned creatures marked with the (*), for the Celestial or Fiendish Template DO in fact change their alignment to match the caster, while normally the Template does not.
Slinks off with head hung low. I knew it made then detect as your gods alignment but forgot it actually changed it. Thanks Owen for teaching me something on this

I see where I erred. Got focused on subtype for so long. Where this ability focused on alignment not subtype like sacred summons.

I'm a bit confused why the CR4 janni (for worshippers of Sarenrae) is added to the summon monster VI list (alongside the CR8 dire tiger) instead of the summon monster IV list, with the other CR3/4 creatures. Note also that People of the Sands introduced the 4th level lesser summon genie spell that accomplishes the same thing.

I'm a bit confused why the CR4 janni (for worshippers of Sarenrae) is added to the summon monster VI list (alongside the CR8 dire tiger) instead of the summon monster IV list, with the other CR3/4 creatures. Note also that People of the Sands introduced the 4th level lesser summon genie spell that accomplishes the same thing.

I would have guessed early access to plane shift, perhaps, based on the nightmare precedent back in 3.X, but it's a teleportation effect, and likely forbidden for summoned creatures to use in Pathfinder anyway.

So, I got nuthin.'

The primordial template doesn't state what creatures it can apply to, nor does it state if the creature's type remains the same or not?

Likely it can be applied to any creature, and it doesn't change the creature's type. Most of the other inherited templates do not change the creature's type, but do possibly add a subtype that's applicable. So a Fiery creature gets the (Fire) subtype, and can't be applied to either a Fire or a Water Elemental, for example.

All in all, after discovering my mistake above, I'd have to say this is my absolute favorite of the player's guides so far after Faiths of Good and Blood of Angels.

A lot of the material in here appears to work very well with prior material, and I do have to say that the level of crunch vs fluff is both rather high and very welcome. I consider myself a pretty strict rater, so a book really has to impress me to get a 4 or 5 star, but I would feel comfortable with giving this a 4.5/5.

delabarre wrote:

I'm a bit confused why the CR4 janni (for worshippers of Sarenrae) is added to the summon monster VI list (alongside the CR8 dire tiger) instead of the summon monster IV list, with the other CR3/4 creatures. Note also that People of the Sands introduced the 4th level lesser summon genie spell that accomplishes the same thing.

I would have guessed early access to plane shift, perhaps, based on the nightmare precedent back in 3.X, but it's a teleportation effect, and likely forbidden for summoned creatures to use in Pathfinder anyway.

So, I got nuthin.'

My guess is that it's a combination of Perfect Fly speed, Ethereal Jaunt for 1 Hour, Plane Shift, Telepathy, and Enlarge Person.

When used in a utility fashion, (non-combat generally,) the Janni is pretty amazing, and far above both the Hell Hound or the Hound Archon. The Hound Archon is close and about the same for Combat ability. So, 4th level is too low.

Summon Monster 5's Bralani Azata does look pretty close in both general utility and combat ability. All the others, though, while they have a clear advantage in combat, are as poor in general utility options in comparison. Still, an argument could be made for SM5.

Summon Monster 6 though, we have a lot of creatures that are pretty amazing options for both combat and utility options. At Will Charm Monster, Fear, Deeper Darkness, Mirror Image, TRUE SIGHT, Unholy Blight, TELEKENISIS, Detect Thoughts, Ethereal Jaunt, Suggestion, and Tongues. Many also have Telepathy and a host of #/Day abilities. Profane Gift alone is pretty amazing, and most also have some sort of shape shifting ability. Janni looks pretty weak in comparison here.

Now, that being said, People of the Sands does include a somewhat simple fix, although it does make the Sarenrae feature, (I believe), irrelevant.

From People of the Sands
Lesser Summon Genie is a Cleric 4 spell, basically Summon Monster but only for a few Genie types.
Summon Genie is level 5 and basically the same thing but allows more than one.
Greater Summon Genie is level 6 and allows you to summon even more.

So, effectively, it is like adding Janni to the Summon Monster 4, 5, and 6 list. All of them do work like Summon Monster specifically, so I think would be able to benefit from a lot of the material in the book.

This book is fantastic! Worth it to me for Morphic Savant alone- everything else is delicious gravy on top. It solves all the Protean Eidolon woes I had- they can change form from level 1, and now instead of being locked into a very narrow build (must be a serpentine grappler), they get to be the only Biped/Quadruped with Constrict.