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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Occult Adventures (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Occult Adventures (OGL)
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There is an unseen world all around you. On the streets and in the halls of power, in your dreams and across the bizarre planes of the multiverse, there are those who walk among us like giants among ants, twisting reality to their wills in their search for ancient knowledge. Now pull back the curtain of the mundane world and learn the secrets of these occult masters—if you dare!

Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures is an indispensable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon over 15 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures includes:

  • Six new occult base classes—the energy-shaping kineticist, the spirit-calling medium, the deceptive mesmerist, the mind-bending psychic, the uncanny occultist, and the phantom-binding spiritualist.
  • Archetypes for all of the new classes, as well as a broad selection of strange and mysterious archetypes and class options for existing characters.
  • New feats to flesh out your occult character, plus a whole new way to use existing skills to become a master of faith healing, hypnotism, psychometry, and more!
  • More than 100 spells using the all-new psychic magic system, plus rituals that grant even non-spellcasting characters occult power! Explore worlds beyond imagining with dream voyage, or defend yourself from mental threats with tower of iron will!
  • Rules and advice to help you steep your game in the occult, from chakras and deadly mindscapes to possession, psychic duels, and the Esoteric Planes.
  • A wide variety of new magic items, such as the eerie spirit mirror and the peculiar tin cap, plus new cursed items and powerful artifacts.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-762-8

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5 —

This massive hardcover clocks in at a whopping 271 pages, though 1 page inside of front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page ToC and 1/3rd of a page decrease that down to 267 2/3 pages of content, so let's take a look!

Well, before we do, let me deal with the confusion for a second that this review undoubtedly will cause. Yes, I usually only do 3pp material. This has several reasons: For one, I want to showcase the fringe of gaming, the evocative books that push the envelope. Secondly, I'm not particularly affluent, to say the least and want to reward the publishers that do send me their books. Well, I obviously *HAVE* to get the Paizo books anyways, but for the most part nowadays, that means pdf or waiting until they're open sourced - I just can't afford them all. Then again, I do have a policy of covering all books I receive...and I got this book on gencon.

That would be the justification I provide from an intellectual point of view. There is another reason. I *WANT* to write this review and, since I have the hardcover now, have absolutely no reason not to.

Now usually, I provide the respective breakdowns of classes and crunch, but frankly, there are whole guides devoted to that out there, which is why I have elected to pursue a different path this time around. (Different path...that'll be a leitmotif, as you'll see...) In order to properly be able to contextualize my take on this book, I will have to embark on a little recap of Paizo's hardcovers and my history with them, so if you're not interested in that, please skip ahead.

When I got my hands on the core rules hardcover for Pathfinder, I was generally positively surprised - it represents a tightening of 3.X's engine and some sensible, smart tweaks to the mechanics. Still, it didn't manage to elicit cheers or particular excitement at my table - that only came with the APG. The Advanced Player's Guide, in spite of its minor flaws, would represent, at least to me, the truly identity-constituting moment of Pathfinder. It is here, with the alchemist, witch, oracle, etc. that the game set out to truly distinguish itself from its roots and transcend basically anything 3.X ever offered. To this day, the APG classes rank among the favorites at my table, which only bespeaks their staying power and coolness. Next up were Ultimate Magic and Combat and with them, alas, came the power creep.

While, much like many out there, I did enjoy the magus, not much else from Ultimate Magic sees regular use in my games and I went through the book with a fine-toothed comb and ban-hammered/restricted material. Ultimate Combat is a more complex story - on one hand, I did like the new classes and e.g. the emphasis on the narrative aspect the gunslinger entailed; alas, for said class, player agenda suffered and mathematically, it would have been served better with a slightly different chassis. So while I like what it represents and quite a few pieces of UC's options, many aren't used in my games. Mythic Adventures is peculiar - I like mythic gameplay, but only when supported by the ton of Legendary Games material I own - I tried running vanilla WotR and it was PCs curbstomping through everything. Still, I do like this book - just not as a stand-alone. I adore Ultimate Campaign. Its downtime and kingdom building make sense to me, are used a lot at my table and story feats are a good idea as well - there's nothing I don't like about that book and what it has brought to my table.

Well, and the less I say about the ARG and ACG, the better. My stance on both books is well known. (Hint: To say I don't like them would be a gross understatement.)

Fast forward to Occult Adventures. For one, this book's class design represents an organic development that benefits the game. An easy way to look at a class would be to examine it regarding player agenda and character agenda. Character agenda, in this instance, would pertain the ability to contribute meaningfully to various situations. It's why I think that skill unlocks are a good idea and 2 + Int skills for all but Int-based casters, generally, is not a good idea. It's just not as fun to play a fighter who can only kill things and excels at one non-combat thing...unless, of course, that's how you roll, but in general, I have observed players gravitate to classes that provide more skill-use and versatility. Player agenda would be just as important: Can the player make meaningful choices that alter the playstyle? The higher the player agenda is, the more rules-knowledge is required; true. But at the same time, it does help immensely in the long run to generate a unique being from a mechanics point of view - if you don't get to choose, you'll sooner, rather than later, run into a character on distinguished from you by his skills, equipment and feats. Pathfinder, as a system, has covered the base classes for a while; it has advanced players that demand unique concepts. As such and at this point in the system's life, the occult classes with their plethora of meaningful choices are very much appreciated - and if you need some proof of players loving choices, look no further than the modularity of the "Talented" classes invented by Owen K.C. Stephens.

Speaking of classes - let us talk a bit about them and begin with the least "occult" class herein and the most popular one. That would, obviously, be the kineticist...and while I kinda like Avatar, I'm not a rabid fan of this franchise, though I get its appeal. This does not change the fact that the class, as presented, is very niche in focus. Then again, thankfully the 3pp-circuit has since expanded the kineticist's appeal far beyond its thematic confines. (A cheers to N. Jolly for that, even if I don't always agree with all balancing...) So, flavor-wise and regarding base-options, I am not the biggest fan of this class...but at the same time, I absolutely ADORE it. Why? Because it is an engine that would be daring for a small publisher, much more so for Paizo as the industry leader. The rules-engine employed by the kineticist is inspiring and complex and its success is well warranted. Were I to nitpick this class, then my complaints would pertain the fact that its power-curve could be a little better distributed; 17th level plus in particular can be an issue...but that extends to more than just this class and is, to an extent, system-inherent. That being said, I still love this class, though for completely different reasons than probably 99% of its fans and players. It remains a great addition to the class roster and I'm glad it exists.

Now, let us talk a bit about the classes that are designated as occult not only by inclusion in the book, but also by their themes...but for that, we need to talk a bit about genre conventions. It is a general truism that Pathfinder, as a game, is indebted by proxy of D&D to Tolkienesque fantasy and a society structured very much akin to the Early Modern period in history due to the advances of magic. Kobold Press' Midgard is closer to the beginning of the Early Modern period and features a more feudal, medieval flair. Golarion and Pathfinder's default, due to the influences of the weird that made me enjoy the setting in the first place, can be roughly situated at the end of the Early Modern period, with overlaps with the Edwardian and Victorian age - once China Miéville (one of my favorite authors - read the Bas-Lag books!!!)-like aesthetics come into play, you're definitely looking at a society that is bordering a magical industrial revolution. This suits me well, for I come from a Ravenloft background (don't ever get me started on 4th and 5th edition Ravenloft and what I think of those...for all of our sakes...) as such, have always been in love with the fantastic aesthetics of Penny Dreadfuls, early weird fiction, Sword & Sorcery, Sword & Planet...you get the idea. I enjoy these somewhat less standardized, less covered aspects that have been an organic part of the old school aesthetic back in the day, but fell by the wayside somewhere along the lines. Anyways, the classes herein very much support this slightly advanced aesthetic; they resonate well with both the ancient and the more modern themes evoked in their resurgence in aforementioned timeframes. The more subtle magic psychic magic represents and the emotional component inherent in the variant spell system works well in the context of more magic-hostile environments as well as in less fantastic settings with more subdued themes than all out fireball-slinging. The marriage of the aesthetics associated with occultism and their relevant mechanical representations are what makes the classes interesting for me.

Take the medium - while I prefer spirits with names and unique identities, the need to offer the general mechanical framework for the defining spirits of the medium is obvious for such a book and in this context, employing the nomenclature of the mythic paths does make sense and can generate some pretty fun tricks. Had a mythic campaign? Use the PC-names when acting as a vessel for the respective spirit - it's simple, but incredibly rewarding. The general notion of taboos and the influence mechanic similarly can make for some great roleplaying. The mesmerist class tends to be called unfocused by some reviews I've read...and frankly, I have no idea why. The mesmerist, from the cool concept to the execution, makes for a very rewarding playing experience and has some serious optimization potential to boot -the implanting of tricks, the skill-array...both from the perspective of the stories you can tell with this class and the options available for the enterprising player, this class is absolutely amazing and allows for some neat, diverse characters. The stare-mechanic is also something that can be employed to rather great effect. The occultist is a similarly evocative concept - the focus on implements and fact that each can make for an unique item on its own is a lot of roleplaying potential and the respective focus powers provide a similarly interesting playing experience. The psychic, as the full caster, ranks as one of the more intriguing full casters in my book, with magical amplification and disciplines providing a nice array of diverse builds. The spiritualist, finally, would basically be a balanced take on the summoner with a fluff that I consider amazing.

This would bring me to what sets the classes apart more so than their mechanical validity - the fact that, to me, they represent, universally a great blending of providing player and character agenda, but this also means that they have things they can do beyond the confines of combat - there is a significant emphasis on the ROLEplaying aspect of the game we all know and love, with a wide variety of diverse tricks associated with actual roleplaying; the classes have means of depicting interesting characters; a player can really make each class its own: The implements, phantoms and all the components of the classes and their structure almost demand, organically, to be used by the player to make something that exceeds the totality of the mathematical components. In short, as far I'm concerned, these are the best player-focused options since the APG and as a whole, I consider the roster to be superior to even that gem of a book.

However, the customization options similarly provide some seriously cool tricks: Want to play Scarecrow from Batman? Yup. Cultist leader? Yep. Eat books and draw strength from it? Yeah. Amnesiac psychic? Yup. As a whole, covering archetypes and feats would obviously bloat the book beyond compare - but one crucial point as opposed to most books of this size lies in the big C-word - consistency. There are no overpowered options here...and neither are there options that you'd consider to be subpar traps sans value - there is some character concept, some specific thing that makes sense from a build and/or flavor perspective. (The options that I won't use will be the onmyoji, elemental annihilator, psychic duelist and kami medium - the Eastern-themed ones mainly since I prefer Interjection Games' take on the Onmyoji and its themes; the psychic duelist is a nice specialist, but doesn't blow me away. Finally, the annihilator...well, I have 3pp options that are more versatile.) - notice something? My criticism here pertains mostly taste.

Now this alone does make the book shine very much for me; at the same time, I wouldn't be me if I didn't have complaints, right? So there we go: The book contains various pieces of advice and alternate rules/subsystems of the material and one would by psychic duels...which are generally an awesome idea and provide for cool, creative minigames when handled right. Alas, the spell used to start them, instigate psychic duel, pretty much is a save-or-suck option, since the affected target has the save...and while the duel is in process, the target cannot move...which allows allies to stab the foe to bits. Oddly, the instigator of such a duel can end it via a Will-save as per the spell, when the psychic duel-rules do not mention such an option for the affected character - this is intended, undoubtedly, since those caught in a duel can be shaken out of it. At the same time, I think that pretty basic modifications could have prevented that little lockdown-aspect: For example, taking a penalty on MP to be capable of at least utilizing a fraction of the action array available...you know, moving slowly towards the instigator while battling him in the duel, maintaining at least defenses...the like. Granted, the system is optional and can be modified rather easily, but I'm still somewhat astonished that this very basic strategy was not used, particularly after the complaints the slumber hex etc. received. Still, this represents a relatively minor issue when seen in relation to the number of things that *do* work pretty perfectly...and the fact that psychic duels work infinitely better than 3.X's mindscapes and similar tricks.

Once again, the storytelling potential is what sells this on me. Beyond the copious GM-advice, the book contains some information on esoteric planes like the akashic record, the positive/negative energy plane and the like - which I generally enjoyed. At the same time, I did feel like the book could have done a little bit more with unique planar features for some of them, since not all receive this component in detail. Of course gear, both mundane and magical, can be found in this tome - from the phrenologist's kit (phrenology being the by now debunked belief that the size and shape of the skull influences personality etc. - and yes, there's a feat inspired by it here!) to the Dorian Gray-ish pictures, we notice one thing - the items, much like a ton of material herein, is steeped in a sense of the real, in the occult traditions and pseudo-science of days gone by.

What do I mean by this? Take alchemy, an established concept in our fantasy games. If you have the stamina to power through them, I'd sincerely suggest getting a copy of the writings of real world alchemists, sit down with the cool alchemy recipes and start - I guarantee you'll come up with new and evocative material. A similar observation can be made here - the tying into concepts and ideas established in our world generates basically the largest hand-out you could fathom and some research will almost assuredly provide a vast selection of truly evocative concepts to represent, while also teaching something new along the way. You do not have to be interested in masons, OTO, etc. to enjoy this book - but you can draw upon esoteric and occult knowledge to enrich the game tremendously. Heck, I'm pretty much a nihilistic atheist and my fascination with the subject matter stems from a purely intellectual point of view, but I still appreciate all the ideas and their impact on the genesis of our mode of thought. Similarly, the idea of locus spirits, of tapping into ley lines and similar high-concept tricks complement an implied world-building and -conception that goes beyond the surface, that extends into a level of depth beyond the superficial pushing of numbers.

Part II of my review can be found here!

Fun, but a bit esoteric

3/5 —

Don't take it the wrong way. You can have tons of fun with this book in other games. I played a mesmerist and it was hilarious, had a whole Doctor Orpheus thing going on. The Kineticist can be flavored a little and it basically becomes a bender from Avatar! How freaking cool is that?!
There are quite a few spells and special abilities that feel like they can only come in handy in very specific ways though. All the mindscape things would almost never come up in a regular game. This feels very much like a book that would be a lot more fun if all your players HAD to take a class from this book, which is a terrible premise for a core book.
On a personal note, almost none of these classes work with Mythic Adventures...

Solid Product

4/5 —

Really, nothing in this book is bad overall, and while there's a few mechanics that I would like to change, it's not enough to change my thoughts. The psychic casters are interesting with different mechanics that still feel familiar, and everything else works very well. I'd say it's worth picking up.

Finally psychic powers makes it's way to Pathfinder

5/5 —

I have been waiting for psychic related rules for Pathfinder for a long time and I am happy for what I see.
Kineticist- This one has become one of my favorite classes with it's all day blasting and at will/always active spell powers and supernatural abilities. I would love to see more classes that focuses on spell powers and supernatural abilities then just spellcasters, martials, and skill monkeys.
Medium- While I am not big on this one, it does have some interesting flavor and good story ideas. My only problem is it is one of the more complex classes.
Mesmerist- I like this one, it is a debuffer counter part to the bard and also makes a great villain. It is also a good spiritual successor for the Beguiler class.
Occultist- As with the Medium interesting flavor and good story value but complex mechanically. Not one my favorites but like all classes in this book, it fills a niche.
Psychic- Interesting class and fills the 9th caster for psychic magic but lacks in the flavor/story department compared to the other 5 classes. Still a solid class with some interesting abilities.
Spiritualist- One of my favorite classes has good flavor/story value and is not as complicated to use as the Medium and Occultist. A great class when dealing with incorporeal creatures especially undead.
These classes are just the tip of the iceberg, we get rules for auras, chakras, psychic duels, possession, occult rituals, occult skill unlocks, loci spirits, ley lines, mindscapes, and more. This one is as useful as the APG and the ARG.

A great addition to the game

5/5 —

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Occult Adventures is a great addition to the Pathfinder game. It does more than just introduce a bunch of new classes and create Pathfinder's version of psionics. It adds a whole new flavour and style of campaign with new rules options that back that flavour up. I eagerly look forward to trying out some of its ideas in a future campaign.

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Quote:

Yes it is. You get a small bonus (+1 attack/dam) for being totally focused on a single element, and you also get an extra talent every time you select the same element a second time.

I think the only element that is worth focusing on right now is fire, but I could be wrong.

Great. A lotta concepts I've made up were single element so that's helpful.

Dragon78 wrote:

I would focus on aether.

I thought you had to focus on your element to get the higher level abilities related to your element?

Sorta. But that only needs taking it twice I think (at least thats what it was in the playtest), and you get up to three elements.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Since I'm an unapologetic info leech, can anyone say what the Reanimated Medium gets for being, well, dead?

(But seriously, everyone's been doing a fantastic job answering questions, many thanks to all of you.)
Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
3 people marked this as a favorite.

The reanimated medium isn't still dead, but was once dead and now channels his own ghost! It's one of my favorite medium archetypes, just for the flavor of it. A samsaran reanimated medium would be a great character concept.
Silver Crusade Contributor
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Robert Brookes wrote:
The reanimated medium isn't still dead, but was once dead and now channels his own ghost! It's one of my favorite medium archetypes, just for the flavor of it. A samsaran reanimated medium would be a great character concept.

I believe we're getting variant samsarans in the Occult Bestiary. ^_^

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

Mechanically the reanimated medium loses the taboo class feature and gains abilities that make it much easier/less taxing to come back from the dead with magic. They also gain resistance to possession and at 20th level they can be channeled by a seance.

After reading through my copy I got a couple days ago, most questions got answered, though there are still a few.

Is the Spiritualist not having short notice (standard to full round action) manifestation of their phantom a deliberate design decision, or can we expect a Summon Not-Eidolon spell in the future?

More questions to come most likely
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

if you focus on Aether, you can get a force blast and later on a talent that makes it stronger and adds a disintegration effect.
Designer
3 people marked this as a favorite.
Robert Brookes wrote:
Mechanically the reanimated medium loses the taboo class feature and gains abilities that make it much easier/less taxing to come back from the dead with magic. They also gain resistance to possession and at 20th level they can be channeled by a seance.

Because honestly, getting a taboo from yourself seems silly. But on the other hand, you're possessing this body already, so none of those other possessors can have it; you called dibs, and they have to respect that.

Anybody (devs too if they want!) feel like sharing stuff they really loved?
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Because honestly, getting a taboo from yourself seems silly. But on the other hand, you're possessing this body already, so none of those other possessors can have it; you called dibs, and they have to respect that.

Haha, I like that explanation.

"Shotgun!"
"Shotgu- aww man, I never get to possess anyone!"
Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
1 person marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
Anybody (devs too if they want!) feel like sharing stuff they really loved?

Not counting the things I wrote myself, because that's tacky, I loved the teamwork that went into making this project. The development team and Brandon were a dream to collaborate with. Not only that, I was able to work closely with Erik Mona on several sections and that was a rare treat.

As for actual content, I'm incredibly happy with how all the dream travel rules work and how psychic combat turned out. The esoteric planes section also includes some really fascinating lore that I think will help GMs and players alike incorporate the occult rules into their campaigns.

Working on the occult books was a dream project, really. There's so much great content in here (and the upcoming Occult Realms, Occult Bestiary, and Occult Origins) for everyone.

A Question for those who have the book, was anything changed with the Rare Earth Infusion? Can it still only be used with the Composite Metal Blast or can it be used with the basic earth blast?
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which archetypes include artwork? which is your favorite? which is your favorite pic that includes the new iconics?
Dexion1619 wrote:
A Question for those who have the book, was anything changed with the Rare Earth Infusion? Can it still only be used with the Composite Metal Blast or can it be used with the basic earth blast?

You can only make metal into special kinds of metal when your blast is metal, so no change.

I am not sure this is the correct place for this but I have noticed that a number of the shape powers for the kineticist F
limit the damage to half damage and then if saves are made are half of that. Am I not understanding something but it would seem that by the time many of them come online hitting for 1/4 damage in say a 30 foot cone would be less than effective. It also seems that many of the AOE shapes are limited to a single element. I would have thought that having a basic 20 foot fireball style blast would come online much earlier.
Dark Archive
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Nate Z wrote:
It actually ended up being left out of Ultimate Campaign. For reasons unknown...

The caption on the blog reads:

"The quest to find a missing family member is a driving horse for many heroes."

So apparently the quest was not meant to end with Ultimate Campaign after all. :(

EDIT: Actually, it would be kind of cool if Sajni ends up being one of the iconic Evil characters for Hell's Vengeance (mind control? Amnesia?). Be a shame to let such a cool piece of art and an interesting looking character go to waste.

Evil characters? Is there going to be an official Evil AP? If so, where was I when that news dropped?

Paizo Employee Developer
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tabletop Prophet wrote:
Evil characters? Is there going to be an official Evil AP? If so, where was I when that news dropped?

Off topic:

Spoiler:
Announced at PaizoCon a couple months ago was Hell's Vengeance, the Adventure Path following Hell's Rebels. While the AP doesn't have its own messageboard section yet, there has been some discussion on this thread (as well as a few others in the Adventure Path section of the messageboards). The first volume should be out in February 2016. Come be evil!
Dark Archive
Kalindlara wrote:
Robert Brookes wrote:
The reanimated medium isn't still dead, but was once dead and now channels his own ghost! It's one of my favorite medium archetypes, just for the flavor of it. A samsaran reanimated medium would be a great character concept.
I believe we're getting variant samsarans in the Occult Bestiary. ^_^

Whooo! I like!

Dark Archive
Adam Daigle wrote:
Tabletop Prophet wrote:
Evil characters? Is there going to be an official Evil AP? If so, where was I when that news dropped?
Off topic: ** spoiler omitted **

Off Topic: Oh! Sorry, I got a little excited for a sec. Not that I enjoy Evil Campaigns that much, but more variety in the AP selection is always welcome, especially direct sequels!

Silver Crusade Contributor
Tabletop Prophet wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
Tabletop Prophet wrote:
Evil characters? Is there going to be an official Evil AP? If so, where was I when that news dropped?
Off topic: ** spoiler omitted **
Off Topic: Oh! Sorry, I got a little excited for a sec. Not that I enjoy Evil Campaigns that much, but more variety in the AP selection is always welcome, especially direct sequels!

Well, it's on my list to run. ^_^

On-topic, when you get a copy of this book, you may want to look up the Necroocultist archetype...
Grand Lodge

I are a tad confused...

The Playtest of Rivani has artwork of her floating with stuff orbiting her person, and looking through her spell list I find:
as a 1st level psychic - Mage hand, TK projectile, both are 0 level.
as the 4th level psychic - I do not see any additional TK spells.
At 7th - Rivani has levitate and fly.

So, how is Rivani doing what she does in the artwork?
The first level through fourth level versions can not levitate, I will assume that levitate could have been on the list as a (third?) fourth level psychic.

I look up the spell description of mage hand, and levitate:
Mage hand
levitate

The target of Levitate is ONE (you, someone else, one object, Period).
The description of mage hand can move 5 lbs, but does not mention any digits, fine manipulation, or the ability to hold at separate locations multiple objects up to the 5lbs limit. Also, concentrating to maintain the spell is a standard action. Trying to maintain multiple spells with a duration of concentration is not possible in the rules as you can not cast spells if you are concentrating to maintain one...

So, multiple instances of mage hand just do not solve this question: no fine manipulation, only one at a time. (*I do not know the feats, items and other spells, but I would tend to imagine that "cast and/or maintain concentration on as many spells as you want as a Non-action" would not be allowed.*) Multiple instances of levitation do not enable horizontal movement and would be absurdly wasteful...
Some sort of "Psychic display" (vomit) should have no viable effect on game play; I do not know about you but using a crossbow and reloading it seems pretty dang viable to me!
Edit: I had missed "fly" earlier. Still "Fly" doesn't enable you to hang your stuff in the air around you, and certainly doesn't aim/reload a crossbow.

Was this artistic license, or can Rivani actually somehow able do what she is doing in the artwork?

Should I be angry at the people involved with the occult book for in essence lying to all of us, or not?

Eric, mark, artist for rivani, etc... what do you guys have to say for yourselves?

My only assumption was that Rivani was originally an aetherkineticist or something.

Is this about the pre-gen characters released today? Or is there no
Psychic levitation ability in the Occult Adventures book?
Silver Crusade
15 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The art is ordered well before the rules are finalised, and if Wayne Reynolds draws your iconic with something that ultimately isn't 100% rules as written, you just roll with it. Why? Because he's gorramn Wayne Reynolds, that's why. ;)
Dark Archive
Brew Bird wrote:

Is this about the pre-gen characters released today? Or is there no

Psychic levitation ability in the Occult Adventures book?

Levitate is a 2nd level spell for the psychic so she gets access to it at 4th level.

Grand Lodge
Milo v3 wrote:
My only assumption was that Rivani was originally an aetherkineticist or something.

I do not have any details on any of that; all I have is the Iconic pre-gen and we can see that it does not say anything of the sort. My assumption is that the artwork is mistakenly portraying an ability that NO ONE can have. That the artwork is Not even representative of the character's abilities at levels higher than 7th.

Fly, levitate? sure now She's airborne.
Stuff floating about her head? A "Display"(Pukes)? maybe, but this would be a display with multiple beneficial game effects (holding things as you want them to be held, etc. Her lamp isn't spilling oil everywhere, crossbow bolts poised to reload, so forth.) multiple casting of levitate one per object would be up and down only, very wasteful, and multiple uses of mage hand is not possible. A crossbow floating, aiming, with multiple bolts ready to reload: nope. nothing I read covers that.
Grand Lodge
Gorbacz wrote:
The art is ordered well before the rules are finalised, and if Wayne Reynolds draws your iconic with something that ultimately isn't 100% rules as written, you just roll with it. Why? Because he's gorramn Wayne Reynolds, that's why. ;)

For good or ill; this may be the only answer. yeah, we know he aims to misbehave.

Still, it would be nice to emulate somehow. the book cover mock up appears to have several tomes orbiting Rivani as well; Heck, one book is in position and open for her to read and her lamp is floating in a perfect spot to illuminate her reading. If I were to try to pull this off with my PFS D.M. ugh. nope.

Everyone; this question isn't about when she learns what spell; it is about how does she do what she is doing in the artwork...
Designer
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If you want the lowest-level spells that take care of it, looks like levitate and unseen servant to me. But remember, the art depicts no particular level, so it could just as easily be a much higher level spell like telekinesis.
Grand Lodge
Brew Bird wrote:
Is this about the pre-gen characters released today? Or is there no Psychic levitation ability in the Occult Adventures book?

uhm, not really. the concern is that I want to know how this:

Rivani floating and orbited by stuff.
Is doable in the rules.

and what she is doing here:
swirling cloud of books, one open for reading with the lamp is floating in a spot to illuminate her reading, and she seems to be doing some sort of "Zap-on-the-run" on top of all these actions.

And here:
does bi-location explain how she is controlling all those knives? not really. Are those knifes real, are they in her listed equipment? Check her Iconic sheet.

How is she doing all this stuff?

Telekinesis wouldn't explain how she's manipulating all those objects at once. Best answer I'd have from a mechanical standpoint is enchanting all the items with an Ioun enchantment, allowing them to orbit the owner.
Designer
Milo v3 wrote:
Telekinesis wouldn't explain how she's manipulating all those objects at once. Best answer I'd have from a mechanical standpoint is enchanting all the items with an Ioun enchantment, allowing them to orbit the owner.

The knives in the bilocation picture, for instance, could be violent thrust. But yeah, the lots of stuff floating near her seems like unseen servant to me.

Grand Lodge
Mark Seifter wrote:
If you want the lowest-level spells that take care of it, looks like levitate and unseen servant to me. But remember, the art depicts no particular level, so it could just as easily be a much higher level spell like telekinesis.

Wow, thanks for responding to this!

So let's look at T.K. : T.K.

Wiz/sorc 5th spell level (i.e. at 10 level?)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Target or Targets see text
Duration concentration (up to 1 round/level) or instantaneous; see text

An object can be telekinetically manipulated as if with one hand. For example, a lever or rope can be pulled, a key can be turned, an object rotated, and so on, if the force required is within the weight limitation. You might even be able to untie simple knots, though delicate activities such as these require DC 15 Intelligence checks.

Okay, some of this passes the smell test. Durations of Concentration cost a standard action. if all the above artwork examples is a single use of the T.K. spell...
She can not use Mage hand to hold the crossbow, because you can not cast a spell while concentrating to maintain another.
T.K. can hold the crossbow with one hand but to reload would be "Two hands" even if the G.M. allowed it to coun as one of these "Delicate" DC 15 int checks - for INT 20 Rivani the odds of fail is 50%.

So, for a player to have this Halo of stuff - you need to be 10th level. for a player to reload a crossbow with t.k. you have to find a way to get that "Second Hand" or a G.M. who don't care about needing two hands.
Grand Lodge
Milo v3 wrote:
Telekinesis wouldn't explain how she's manipulating all those objects at once. Best answer I'd have from a mechanical standpoint is enchanting all the items with an Ioun enchantment, allowing them to orbit the owner.

it isn't on the 1,4, or 7 iconic sheet. so it has to be done at a higher level. telekinesis does allow you to control multiple objects and to make a violent thrust. I didn't see any unseen servant on her list of spells.

Designer
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chad hale 637 wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Telekinesis wouldn't explain how she's manipulating all those objects at once. Best answer I'd have from a mechanical standpoint is enchanting all the items with an Ioun enchantment, allowing them to orbit the owner.
it isn't on the 1,4, or 7 iconic sheet. so it has to be done at a higher level. telekinesis does allow you to control multiple objects and to make a violent thrust. I didn't see any unseen servant on her list of spells.

With the exception of the Advanced Class Guide iconics, which I happened to have written as a freelancer (and not part of my normal job) as a coincidence, the PFS pregenerated character sheets are not usually written by the same team who write the RPG line books, and each person who writes a pregen has to decide what they think about fidelity to the art vs other big important aspects. For instance, take a look at Alahazra the oracle (pregen not out yet; I mean look at her art). In her picture, clearly she doesn't have any armor. Should her PFS pregen have armor or just flounder around with really low AC? These are difficult questions that don't always have easy answers. As such, when you reach a different conclusion (for instance, as here) I don't recommend narrowing to the choices of the PFS pregen as the only possible interpretation of the character. For instance, Harsk is a tea aficionado, but there's nothing about it, including skills in that area, on his pregen.

Contributor
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chad hale 637 wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
The art is ordered well before the rules are finalised, and if Wayne Reynolds draws your iconic with something that ultimately isn't 100% rules as written, you just roll with it. Why? Because he's gorramn Wayne Reynolds, that's why. ;)

For good or ill; this may be the only answer. yeah, we know he aims to misbehave.

Still, it would be nice to emulate somehow. the book cover mock up appears to have several tomes orbiting Rivani as well; Heck, one book is in position and open for her to read and her lamp is floating in a perfect spot to illuminate her reading. If I were to try to pull this off with my PFS D.M. ugh. nope.

Everyone; this question isn't about when she learns what spell; it is about how does she do what she is doing in the artwork...

A levitating character with multiple items floating around her head were specifically mentioned in the art description for this Iconic. Your statement that I aim to misbehave is incorrect.

I follow my art briefs and give the client the artwork that they've asked for.
Grand Lodge
Mark Seifter wrote:
yeah, the lots of stuff floating near her seems like unseen servant to me.

okay, unseen servant

the servant is undoubtly handy, but... has a movement rate of 15, can't perform detailed skills (DC 10 or higher) and can't attack. So no crossbow aiming. however, the unseen servant can hold the bolts and reload the crossbow, which would be held by Rivani's T.K.
Hrmm. Rivani doesn't know Unseen servant at 1st,4th,7th - has to be sometime after 7th.

as for Unseen servant, there isn't a list for how many limbs it has and thus it could hold multiple objects at different locations in its reach up to its weight limit (Strength 2, 20 lbs).

in terms of action economy, what does it take to command an unseen servant, the text of the spell doesn't say. if it is a free action (talking) no worries.

SO; one, cast unseen servant for the halo of stuffs and minor task doing.
Two cast T.K. for the halo of stuffs, one hand fine manipulation, and thrusting.

oh yeah, normally cary about a few books and other bits, and some five daggers (maybe)... to try to pull this off.
Designer

According to the magic chapter, redirecting an active spell, when the action isn't specified, is a move action, so still works while concentrating on another spell.
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Wayne Reynolds wrote:
chad hale 637 wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
The art is ordered well before the rules are finalised, and if Wayne Reynolds draws your iconic with something that ultimately isn't 100% rules as written, you just roll with it. Why? Because he's gorramn Wayne Reynolds, that's why. ;)

For good or ill; this may be the only answer. yeah, we know he aims to misbehave.

Still, it would be nice to emulate somehow. the book cover mock up appears to have several tomes orbiting Rivani as well; Heck, one book is in position and open for her to read and her lamp is floating in a perfect spot to illuminate her reading. If I were to try to pull this off with my PFS D.M. ugh. nope.

Everyone; this question isn't about when she learns what spell; it is about how does she do what she is doing in the artwork...

A levitating character with multiple items floating around her head were specifically mentioned in the art description for this Iconic. Your statement that I aim to misbehave is incorrect.

I follow my art briefs and give the client the artwork that they've asked for.

And the results are always awesome and inspiring. Thank you.

Grand Lodge
Mark Seifter wrote:
According to the magic chapter, redirecting an active spell, when the action isn't specified, is a move action, so still works while concentrating on another spell.

T.K.

Fly
Levitate
Unseen servant
Mage hand

Some of these work together to contribute to a combo that does everything depicted in the art. Cool with me, PFS doable too. that resolves my concern.

I wonder if there are other rules, feats, and traits that contribute to such psychic effects. For example, While your unseen servant is in your space it moves as fast as you do because it is holding on to you.

maybe a question for another time.
Grand Lodge
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Wayne Reynolds wrote:
chad hale 637 wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
The art is ordered well before the rules are finalised, and if Wayne Reynolds draws your iconic with something that ultimately isn't 100% rules as written, you just roll with it. Why? Because he's gorramn Wayne Reynolds, that's why. ;)
For good or ill; this may be the only answer.

A levitating character with multiple items floating around her head were specifically mentioned in the art description for this Iconic. Your statement that I aim to misbehave is incorrect.

I follow my art briefs and give the client the artwork that they've asked for.

Hey, love your work. No offense was intended.

The whole "Aims to misbehave" is just a phrase from "Firefly" to show that I understood Gorbacz. that is all.
Grand Lodge

okay, now. in the same vein as my last question;
what is an under-cast spell?

would this enable the use of a weaker T.K. spell at a lower character level or a weaker version of it as a lower spell level once you have learned T.K.?
Silver Crusade Contributor
chad hale 637 wrote:

okay, now. in the same vein as my last question;

what is an under-cast spell?

would this enable the use of a weaker T.K. spell at a lower character level or a weaker version of it as a lower spell level once you have learned T.K.?

Undercasting only exists for specific spells, of which telekinesis is not one.

Imagine if you knew summon monster VI. If it had the "can be undercast" text, you could cast it as summon monster I-V instead, with commensurately lower spell slot and effects.

So, essentially, if you know thought shield IV, you know I-III as well.

Does that make sense?
chad hale 637 wrote:

okay, now. in the same vein as my last question;

what is an under-cast spell?

would this enable the use of a weaker T.K. spell at a lower character level or a weaker version of it as a lower spell level once you have learned T.K.?

Undercasting is a feature of certain psychic spells. There are a lot of spells in Occult Adventures that have different "tiers" like Summon Monster, but knowing one tier allows you to cast all the lower tier versions as well. Here's the text from the playtest document:

Playtest pg 60 wrote:

Undercast: Some psychic spells can be undercast. This means that the spellcaster can cast the spell at the level that he knows, or as any lower level version of that spell, using the appropriate spell slot. When undercasting a spell, it is treated exactly like the lower level version, including when determining its effect, saving throw, and other variables. For example, a psychic spellcaster who adds ego whip III to his list of spells known can cast it as ego whip I, II, or III. If he casts it as ego whip I, it is treated in all ways as that spell; using the text for that spell, the saving throw DC, and requiring him to expend a 3rd-level spell slot.

Whenever a spontaneous spellcaster adds a spell to his list of spells known that can be undercast, he can immediately learn a spell in place of any lower level versions of that spell. In essence he “loses” the earlier version and can replace it with another spell of the same level that is on his spell list.

Grand Lodge
Kalindlara wrote:

Undercasting only exists for specific spells, of which telekinesis is not one.

Does that make sense?

Yes, I understand under-casting now. "I are disappoint" that aside from magical approximations: unseen servant, floating disk, levitate, fly, mage hand, etc. there isn't a lower level version of the T.K. spell.

at 3 XP a month(generally one month of PFS sessions for me) to earn tenth level is ten months. That can be a really long time to wait before I can do "X-y-Z of awesome. oh well, them is the rules.
Silver Crusade Contributor

Who knows? Maybe all your interest will guide them to put an option into an upcoming book. ^_^
Kalindlara wrote:
Tabletop Prophet wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
Tabletop Prophet wrote:
Evil characters? Is there going to be an official Evil AP? If so, where was I when that news dropped?
Off topic: ** spoiler omitted **
Off Topic: Oh! Sorry, I got a little excited for a sec. Not that I enjoy Evil Campaigns that much, but more variety in the AP selection is always welcome, especially direct sequels!

Well, it's on my list to run. ^_^

On-topic, when you get a copy of this book, you may want to look up the Necroocultist archetype...

Speaking of this acrhetype, could anyone give us a bit more info on it? Namely how it fares as a party necromancer. All that's been said so far is a general idea of what it replaces (instead of contacting outsiders and learning from objects you contact and learn from the dead).

My GM allows evil characters so I might just play one if it's good with undead as the name might suggest.
Grand Lodge
Kalindlara wrote:
Necroocultist archetype...
Speaking of this acrhetype, could anyone give us a bit more info on it? Namely how it fares as a party necromancer. My GM allows evil characters so I might just play one if it's good with undead as the name might suggest.

Indeed, this Necro occultist could be quite interesting to use as a vile villain! I can just imagine a Necro-kinetic..

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