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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Occult Adventures (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Occult Adventures (OGL)
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There is an unseen world all around you. On the streets and in the halls of power, in your dreams and across the bizarre planes of the multiverse, there are those who walk among us like giants among ants, twisting reality to their wills in their search for ancient knowledge. Now pull back the curtain of the mundane world and learn the secrets of these occult masters—if you dare!

Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures is an indispensable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon over 15 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures includes:

  • Six new occult base classes—the energy-shaping kineticist, the spirit-calling medium, the deceptive mesmerist, the mind-bending psychic, the uncanny occultist, and the phantom-binding spiritualist.
  • Archetypes for all of the new classes, as well as a broad selection of strange and mysterious archetypes and class options for existing characters.
  • New feats to flesh out your occult character, plus a whole new way to use existing skills to become a master of faith healing, hypnotism, psychometry, and more!
  • More than 100 spells using the all-new psychic magic system, plus rituals that grant even non-spellcasting characters occult power! Explore worlds beyond imagining with dream voyage, or defend yourself from mental threats with tower of iron will!
  • Rules and advice to help you steep your game in the occult, from chakras and deadly mindscapes to possession, psychic duels, and the Esoteric Planes.
  • A wide variety of new magic items, such as the eerie spirit mirror and the peculiar tin cap, plus new cursed items and powerful artifacts.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-762-8

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5 —

This massive hardcover clocks in at a whopping 271 pages, though 1 page inside of front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page ToC and 1/3rd of a page decrease that down to 267 2/3 pages of content, so let's take a look!

Well, before we do, let me deal with the confusion for a second that this review undoubtedly will cause. Yes, I usually only do 3pp material. This has several reasons: For one, I want to showcase the fringe of gaming, the evocative books that push the envelope. Secondly, I'm not particularly affluent, to say the least and want to reward the publishers that do send me their books. Well, I obviously *HAVE* to get the Paizo books anyways, but for the most part nowadays, that means pdf or waiting until they're open sourced - I just can't afford them all. Then again, I do have a policy of covering all books I receive...and I got this book on gencon.

That would be the justification I provide from an intellectual point of view. There is another reason. I *WANT* to write this review and, since I have the hardcover now, have absolutely no reason not to.

Now usually, I provide the respective breakdowns of classes and crunch, but frankly, there are whole guides devoted to that out there, which is why I have elected to pursue a different path this time around. (Different path...that'll be a leitmotif, as you'll see...) In order to properly be able to contextualize my take on this book, I will have to embark on a little recap of Paizo's hardcovers and my history with them, so if you're not interested in that, please skip ahead.

When I got my hands on the core rules hardcover for Pathfinder, I was generally positively surprised - it represents a tightening of 3.X's engine and some sensible, smart tweaks to the mechanics. Still, it didn't manage to elicit cheers or particular excitement at my table - that only came with the APG. The Advanced Player's Guide, in spite of its minor flaws, would represent, at least to me, the truly identity-constituting moment of Pathfinder. It is here, with the alchemist, witch, oracle, etc. that the game set out to truly distinguish itself from its roots and transcend basically anything 3.X ever offered. To this day, the APG classes rank among the favorites at my table, which only bespeaks their staying power and coolness. Next up were Ultimate Magic and Combat and with them, alas, came the power creep.

While, much like many out there, I did enjoy the magus, not much else from Ultimate Magic sees regular use in my games and I went through the book with a fine-toothed comb and ban-hammered/restricted material. Ultimate Combat is a more complex story - on one hand, I did like the new classes and e.g. the emphasis on the narrative aspect the gunslinger entailed; alas, for said class, player agenda suffered and mathematically, it would have been served better with a slightly different chassis. So while I like what it represents and quite a few pieces of UC's options, many aren't used in my games. Mythic Adventures is peculiar - I like mythic gameplay, but only when supported by the ton of Legendary Games material I own - I tried running vanilla WotR and it was PCs curbstomping through everything. Still, I do like this book - just not as a stand-alone. I adore Ultimate Campaign. Its downtime and kingdom building make sense to me, are used a lot at my table and story feats are a good idea as well - there's nothing I don't like about that book and what it has brought to my table.

Well, and the less I say about the ARG and ACG, the better. My stance on both books is well known. (Hint: To say I don't like them would be a gross understatement.)

Fast forward to Occult Adventures. For one, this book's class design represents an organic development that benefits the game. An easy way to look at a class would be to examine it regarding player agenda and character agenda. Character agenda, in this instance, would pertain the ability to contribute meaningfully to various situations. It's why I think that skill unlocks are a good idea and 2 + Int skills for all but Int-based casters, generally, is not a good idea. It's just not as fun to play a fighter who can only kill things and excels at one non-combat thing...unless, of course, that's how you roll, but in general, I have observed players gravitate to classes that provide more skill-use and versatility. Player agenda would be just as important: Can the player make meaningful choices that alter the playstyle? The higher the player agenda is, the more rules-knowledge is required; true. But at the same time, it does help immensely in the long run to generate a unique being from a mechanics point of view - if you don't get to choose, you'll sooner, rather than later, run into a character on distinguished from you by his skills, equipment and feats. Pathfinder, as a system, has covered the base classes for a while; it has advanced players that demand unique concepts. As such and at this point in the system's life, the occult classes with their plethora of meaningful choices are very much appreciated - and if you need some proof of players loving choices, look no further than the modularity of the "Talented" classes invented by Owen K.C. Stephens.

Speaking of classes - let us talk a bit about them and begin with the least "occult" class herein and the most popular one. That would, obviously, be the kineticist...and while I kinda like Avatar, I'm not a rabid fan of this franchise, though I get its appeal. This does not change the fact that the class, as presented, is very niche in focus. Then again, thankfully the 3pp-circuit has since expanded the kineticist's appeal far beyond its thematic confines. (A cheers to N. Jolly for that, even if I don't always agree with all balancing...) So, flavor-wise and regarding base-options, I am not the biggest fan of this class...but at the same time, I absolutely ADORE it. Why? Because it is an engine that would be daring for a small publisher, much more so for Paizo as the industry leader. The rules-engine employed by the kineticist is inspiring and complex and its success is well warranted. Were I to nitpick this class, then my complaints would pertain the fact that its power-curve could be a little better distributed; 17th level plus in particular can be an issue...but that extends to more than just this class and is, to an extent, system-inherent. That being said, I still love this class, though for completely different reasons than probably 99% of its fans and players. It remains a great addition to the class roster and I'm glad it exists.

Now, let us talk a bit about the classes that are designated as occult not only by inclusion in the book, but also by their themes...but for that, we need to talk a bit about genre conventions. It is a general truism that Pathfinder, as a game, is indebted by proxy of D&D to Tolkienesque fantasy and a society structured very much akin to the Early Modern period in history due to the advances of magic. Kobold Press' Midgard is closer to the beginning of the Early Modern period and features a more feudal, medieval flair. Golarion and Pathfinder's default, due to the influences of the weird that made me enjoy the setting in the first place, can be roughly situated at the end of the Early Modern period, with overlaps with the Edwardian and Victorian age - once China Miéville (one of my favorite authors - read the Bas-Lag books!!!)-like aesthetics come into play, you're definitely looking at a society that is bordering a magical industrial revolution. This suits me well, for I come from a Ravenloft background (don't ever get me started on 4th and 5th edition Ravenloft and what I think of those...for all of our sakes...) as such, have always been in love with the fantastic aesthetics of Penny Dreadfuls, early weird fiction, Sword & Sorcery, Sword & Planet...you get the idea. I enjoy these somewhat less standardized, less covered aspects that have been an organic part of the old school aesthetic back in the day, but fell by the wayside somewhere along the lines. Anyways, the classes herein very much support this slightly advanced aesthetic; they resonate well with both the ancient and the more modern themes evoked in their resurgence in aforementioned timeframes. The more subtle magic psychic magic represents and the emotional component inherent in the variant spell system works well in the context of more magic-hostile environments as well as in less fantastic settings with more subdued themes than all out fireball-slinging. The marriage of the aesthetics associated with occultism and their relevant mechanical representations are what makes the classes interesting for me.

Take the medium - while I prefer spirits with names and unique identities, the need to offer the general mechanical framework for the defining spirits of the medium is obvious for such a book and in this context, employing the nomenclature of the mythic paths does make sense and can generate some pretty fun tricks. Had a mythic campaign? Use the PC-names when acting as a vessel for the respective spirit - it's simple, but incredibly rewarding. The general notion of taboos and the influence mechanic similarly can make for some great roleplaying. The mesmerist class tends to be called unfocused by some reviews I've read...and frankly, I have no idea why. The mesmerist, from the cool concept to the execution, makes for a very rewarding playing experience and has some serious optimization potential to boot -the implanting of tricks, the skill-array...both from the perspective of the stories you can tell with this class and the options available for the enterprising player, this class is absolutely amazing and allows for some neat, diverse characters. The stare-mechanic is also something that can be employed to rather great effect. The occultist is a similarly evocative concept - the focus on implements and fact that each can make for an unique item on its own is a lot of roleplaying potential and the respective focus powers provide a similarly interesting playing experience. The psychic, as the full caster, ranks as one of the more intriguing full casters in my book, with magical amplification and disciplines providing a nice array of diverse builds. The spiritualist, finally, would basically be a balanced take on the summoner with a fluff that I consider amazing.

This would bring me to what sets the classes apart more so than their mechanical validity - the fact that, to me, they represent, universally a great blending of providing player and character agenda, but this also means that they have things they can do beyond the confines of combat - there is a significant emphasis on the ROLEplaying aspect of the game we all know and love, with a wide variety of diverse tricks associated with actual roleplaying; the classes have means of depicting interesting characters; a player can really make each class its own: The implements, phantoms and all the components of the classes and their structure almost demand, organically, to be used by the player to make something that exceeds the totality of the mathematical components. In short, as far I'm concerned, these are the best player-focused options since the APG and as a whole, I consider the roster to be superior to even that gem of a book.

However, the customization options similarly provide some seriously cool tricks: Want to play Scarecrow from Batman? Yup. Cultist leader? Yep. Eat books and draw strength from it? Yeah. Amnesiac psychic? Yup. As a whole, covering archetypes and feats would obviously bloat the book beyond compare - but one crucial point as opposed to most books of this size lies in the big C-word - consistency. There are no overpowered options here...and neither are there options that you'd consider to be subpar traps sans value - there is some character concept, some specific thing that makes sense from a build and/or flavor perspective. (The options that I won't use will be the onmyoji, elemental annihilator, psychic duelist and kami medium - the Eastern-themed ones mainly since I prefer Interjection Games' take on the Onmyoji and its themes; the psychic duelist is a nice specialist, but doesn't blow me away. Finally, the annihilator...well, I have 3pp options that are more versatile.) - notice something? My criticism here pertains mostly taste.

Now this alone does make the book shine very much for me; at the same time, I wouldn't be me if I didn't have complaints, right? So there we go: The book contains various pieces of advice and alternate rules/subsystems of the material and one would by psychic duels...which are generally an awesome idea and provide for cool, creative minigames when handled right. Alas, the spell used to start them, instigate psychic duel, pretty much is a save-or-suck option, since the affected target has the save...and while the duel is in process, the target cannot move...which allows allies to stab the foe to bits. Oddly, the instigator of such a duel can end it via a Will-save as per the spell, when the psychic duel-rules do not mention such an option for the affected character - this is intended, undoubtedly, since those caught in a duel can be shaken out of it. At the same time, I think that pretty basic modifications could have prevented that little lockdown-aspect: For example, taking a penalty on MP to be capable of at least utilizing a fraction of the action array available...you know, moving slowly towards the instigator while battling him in the duel, maintaining at least defenses...the like. Granted, the system is optional and can be modified rather easily, but I'm still somewhat astonished that this very basic strategy was not used, particularly after the complaints the slumber hex etc. received. Still, this represents a relatively minor issue when seen in relation to the number of things that *do* work pretty perfectly...and the fact that psychic duels work infinitely better than 3.X's mindscapes and similar tricks.

Once again, the storytelling potential is what sells this on me. Beyond the copious GM-advice, the book contains some information on esoteric planes like the akashic record, the positive/negative energy plane and the like - which I generally enjoyed. At the same time, I did feel like the book could have done a little bit more with unique planar features for some of them, since not all receive this component in detail. Of course gear, both mundane and magical, can be found in this tome - from the phrenologist's kit (phrenology being the by now debunked belief that the size and shape of the skull influences personality etc. - and yes, there's a feat inspired by it here!) to the Dorian Gray-ish pictures, we notice one thing - the items, much like a ton of material herein, is steeped in a sense of the real, in the occult traditions and pseudo-science of days gone by.

What do I mean by this? Take alchemy, an established concept in our fantasy games. If you have the stamina to power through them, I'd sincerely suggest getting a copy of the writings of real world alchemists, sit down with the cool alchemy recipes and start - I guarantee you'll come up with new and evocative material. A similar observation can be made here - the tying into concepts and ideas established in our world generates basically the largest hand-out you could fathom and some research will almost assuredly provide a vast selection of truly evocative concepts to represent, while also teaching something new along the way. You do not have to be interested in masons, OTO, etc. to enjoy this book - but you can draw upon esoteric and occult knowledge to enrich the game tremendously. Heck, I'm pretty much a nihilistic atheist and my fascination with the subject matter stems from a purely intellectual point of view, but I still appreciate all the ideas and their impact on the genesis of our mode of thought. Similarly, the idea of locus spirits, of tapping into ley lines and similar high-concept tricks complement an implied world-building and -conception that goes beyond the surface, that extends into a level of depth beyond the superficial pushing of numbers.

Part II of my review can be found here!

Fun, but a bit esoteric

3/5 —

Don't take it the wrong way. You can have tons of fun with this book in other games. I played a mesmerist and it was hilarious, had a whole Doctor Orpheus thing going on. The Kineticist can be flavored a little and it basically becomes a bender from Avatar! How freaking cool is that?!
There are quite a few spells and special abilities that feel like they can only come in handy in very specific ways though. All the mindscape things would almost never come up in a regular game. This feels very much like a book that would be a lot more fun if all your players HAD to take a class from this book, which is a terrible premise for a core book.
On a personal note, almost none of these classes work with Mythic Adventures...

Solid Product

4/5 —

Really, nothing in this book is bad overall, and while there's a few mechanics that I would like to change, it's not enough to change my thoughts. The psychic casters are interesting with different mechanics that still feel familiar, and everything else works very well. I'd say it's worth picking up.

Finally psychic powers makes it's way to Pathfinder

5/5 —

I have been waiting for psychic related rules for Pathfinder for a long time and I am happy for what I see.
Kineticist- This one has become one of my favorite classes with it's all day blasting and at will/always active spell powers and supernatural abilities. I would love to see more classes that focuses on spell powers and supernatural abilities then just spellcasters, martials, and skill monkeys.
Medium- While I am not big on this one, it does have some interesting flavor and good story ideas. My only problem is it is one of the more complex classes.
Mesmerist- I like this one, it is a debuffer counter part to the bard and also makes a great villain. It is also a good spiritual successor for the Beguiler class.
Occultist- As with the Medium interesting flavor and good story value but complex mechanically. Not one my favorites but like all classes in this book, it fills a niche.
Psychic- Interesting class and fills the 9th caster for psychic magic but lacks in the flavor/story department compared to the other 5 classes. Still a solid class with some interesting abilities.
Spiritualist- One of my favorite classes has good flavor/story value and is not as complicated to use as the Medium and Occultist. A great class when dealing with incorporeal creatures especially undead.
These classes are just the tip of the iceberg, we get rules for auras, chakras, psychic duels, possession, occult rituals, occult skill unlocks, loci spirits, ley lines, mindscapes, and more. This one is as useful as the APG and the ARG.

A great addition to the game

5/5 —

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Occult Adventures is a great addition to the Pathfinder game. It does more than just introduce a bunch of new classes and create Pathfinder's version of psionics. It adds a whole new flavour and style of campaign with new rules options that back that flavour up. I eagerly look forward to trying out some of its ideas in a future campaign.

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Azouth wrote:
In case it was missed what does the blood bender archetype do?

Blood Kineticist you mean?

Spoiler:
Water Kineticist, can't affect target's that can't bleed.
Wrack : half normal blast to target.
Bleeding Infusion : 1 bleed per blast damage die.
Blood Tell : much like blood biography (APG).
Blood Blast : a composite blast instead of cold or ice.
Blood Throw : foe throw infusion.
Gut-Wrenching Infusion : Sickening the target.
Vampiric Infusion : Heal a bit when hitting the target.
Blood Mastery : Blood Kineticist doesn't age anymore, gains some immunities.
Milo v3 wrote:
DM Sothal wrote:


** spoiler omitted **
That has the risk of being very unbalanced. I assume it goes off a list of abilities that can be consumed?

Talking Flesheater?

It's complicated to explain without giving the full text that sums it up really nice. Yeah, it's more or less a list.

Anyone look at the Mutation Mind yet? What's it like/how is it different from the base Psychic?
DM Sothal wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
DM Sothal wrote:


** spoiler omitted **
That has the risk of being very unbalanced. I assume it goes off a list of abilities that can be consumed?

Talking Flesheater?

It's complicated to explain without giving the full text that sums it up really nice. Yeah, it's more or less a list.

It being complicated is probably for the best. If it was amazingly simplistic it'd likely either be near useless or open to horrendous abuse.

It's not complicated in and on itself. It's just hard to describe without quoting it word for word. Maybe it's my second language english prohibiting me from finding the right words.

Brew Bird wrote:
Anyone look at the Mutation Mind yet? What's it like/how is it different from the base Psychic?

Spoiler:

Physical Mutation : gain enhancement to STR at a penalty to INT for minutes.
Bodily Mutations : sticky skin or bite attack or darkvision or claws or... any time instead of a phrenic amplification.
Phrenic Empowerment : gain additional STR bonus. might lose control.
Improved Bodily Mutation: swim speed, or enlarge person, or wings, or...
DM Sothal wrote:
Axial wrote:
What does the flesheater actually do and what makes it occult? If I recall, there was a "cannibal" barbarian archetype in Champions of Corruption.
** spoiler omitted **

That's like the FFIX Blue Mage! And a bit like iZombie, now that I'm thinking about it, if there were magical creatures in iZombie.

Thanks for answering my questions, David. A very intriguing archetype. Too bad it won't stack with Sound Striker. I has a sad face.
Liberty's Edge

When a medium calls up a heirophant spirit, they can gain the ability to channel energy. I'm not seeing any details there, like their effective cleric level. Any help?

Mark Seifter, can you select a utility wild talent with the extra wild talent feat?

What does the blue flame blast do that is different from a standard fire blast?

blue flame blast:

"It's blue light."
"What does it do?"
"It turns blue."

Rambo

What do the different Archmage spirits do? What sort of Trickster options are there? Just some stand-out cool stuff- I'm very curious.

Other then it turns blue, I am talking about game effects.
Contributor
1 person marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
What do the different Archmage spirits do? What sort of Trickster options are there? Just some stand-out cool stuff- I'm very curious.

The archmage spirit provides an expanded arcane spell list and casting ability to the medium, and a boon to increase damage of offensive spells. You become more frail, but can trade points of influence to cast spells without expending slots as you grow in power.

The trickster provides delicious bonuses to Dex-based abilities and skills, even while you become something of a loner that is harder to target with spells as an ally. You gain the ability to deal precision damage, and as you gain in power you can steal spells affecting other creatures, modify d20 rolls, and even change form to mimic someone else!

Dragon, the blue flame blast deals more fire damage.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Azouth wrote:
In case it was missed what does the blood bender archetype do?

There is no Blood Bender archetype -- in fact, a search for the word "bender" in the PDF came up blank.

I did give some info about the Blood Kineticist several posts back.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Shisumo wrote:
When a medium calls up a heirophant spirit, they can gain the ability to channel energy. I'm not seeing any details there, like their effective cleric level. Any help?

In the absence of any other information, wouldn't using medium level as effective cleric level make the most sense?

Liberty's Edge
David knott 242 wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
When a medium calls up a heirophant spirit, they can gain the ability to channel energy. I'm not seeing any details there, like their effective cleric level. Any help?

In the absence of any other information, wouldn't using medium level as effective cleric level make the most sense?

It would, and is my plan for houserule should it be necessary - but, for example, PFS might see it differently.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
David knott 242 wrote:
Azouth wrote:
In case it was missed what does the blood bender archetype do?

There is no Blood Bender archetype -- in fact, a search for the word "bender" in the PDF came up blank.

I did give some info about the Blood Kineticist several posts back.

That must be it. Someone called it that did not know it was not its name.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Sajuuk, Turtle of Creation wrote:
Finalized version of Occultist looks nice, but I'm sad to see the Implement resonant powers get simplified down (especially since the one that gave you a familiar got nerfed hard).
Oh, no! What did they do to Soulbound Puppet? That was one of my favorite Occultist powers.
I wrote the original version of soulbound puppet and Jason wrote the new version, and honestly, I disagree with our turtle friend; Jason's changes are cool, and the new version seems more powerful to me (in that it is now a focus power that gives full abilities for 1 point, and while it doesn't last indefinitely, it has a long duration, and if it dies, you can just spend another point and make a new one [the implement does not become the familiar any more], so it's much more expendable than before and far less risky).
Well, that doesn't sound bad at all.
It's one reason I watch these threads like a hawk. I don't want, for instance, fellow soulbound puppet lovers to be sitting around for several weeks, possibly with a noticeably upset mood over the thought that something bad happened (I know it's just a game, but I've been there as a fan and seen many other fans, and I know it's possibly to have an awesome or non-awesome thing in a Paizo product affect your mood for the day), only to get the book and be like "Wait, this wasn't bad at all. Why did I have to be upset about this again?"

I think my biggest issue with the finalized occultist is that in the playtest, you could grab the necromancy school without being...you know, an undead-animating necromancer, since soulbound puppet was a resonant power instead of a focus power. In the print version of occultist, your resonant power revolves around controlling undead.

Is soulbound puppet being a limited-duration focus power more useful? From a crunch perspective, definitely. You can have multiple puppets, and yeah they do eat up your mental focus each time you use it. But from the perspective of someone who wanted their talking skull companion without having to deal with the "gah, you're a necromancer! burn him at the stake!" baggage...yeah, its a bit annoying.

Still, the final version of Occultist IS GOOD. Its certainly a whole lot easier to use than the playtest version, even if some of the simplification of resonant powers made no sense at all (harrow deck giving me darkvision, for example).
Designer
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Sajuuk, Turtle of Creation wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Sajuuk, Turtle of Creation wrote:
Finalized version of Occultist looks nice, but I'm sad to see the Implement resonant powers get simplified down (especially since the one that gave you a familiar got nerfed hard).
Oh, no! What did they do to Soulbound Puppet? That was one of my favorite Occultist powers.
I wrote the original version of soulbound puppet and Jason wrote the new version, and honestly, I disagree with our turtle friend; Jason's changes are cool, and the new version seems more powerful to me (in that it is now a focus power that gives full abilities for 1 point, and while it doesn't last indefinitely, it has a long duration, and if it dies, you can just spend another point and make a new one [the implement does not become the familiar any more], so it's much more expendable than before and far less risky).
Well, that doesn't sound bad at all.
It's one reason I watch these threads like a hawk. I don't want, for instance, fellow soulbound puppet lovers to be sitting around for several weeks, possibly with a noticeably upset mood over the thought that something bad happened (I know it's just a game, but I've been there as a fan and seen many other fans, and I know it's possibly to have an awesome or non-awesome thing in a Paizo product affect your mood for the day), only to get the book and be like "Wait, this wasn't bad at all. Why did I have to be upset about this again?"

I think my biggest issue with the finalized occultist is that in the playtest, you could grab the necromancy school without being...you know, an undead-animating necromancer, since soulbound puppet was a resonant power instead of a focus power. In the print version of occultist, your resonant power revolves around controlling undead.

Is soulbound puppet being a limited-duration focus power more useful? From a crunch perspective, definitely. You can have multiple puppets, and...

Oh gotcha. It's sort of the "gives me more, but some of it I don't want" thing. Honestly I do understand that. I've had that affect me myself, even when I was self-aware of it, for instance feeling disinclined to buy game products that had material for a variety of RPG systems, some of which I didn't play, even though the price was a fair one, even a cheap one, when looking just at the pagecount of the Pathfinder material.

This is something that Mavaro runs into also. Being raised a Pharasmin, of course he doesn't want to raise undead, but on the other hand, Mother Wren's skull. In the end (and I mean literally in the end, since it's the last line of the resonant power), the necromantic focus does also help you destroy the undead, and that's what Mavaro wants to do with it.
DM Sothal wrote:

It's not complicated in and on itself. It's just hard to describe without quoting it word for word. Maybe it's my second language english prohibiting me from finding the right words.

Brew Bird wrote:
Anyone look at the Mutation Mind yet? What's it like/how is it different from the base Psychic?
** spoiler omitted **

What use is a strength enhancement to a d6 psychic?

Azouth wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Azouth wrote:
In case it was missed what does the blood bender archetype do?

There is no Blood Bender archetype -- in fact, a search for the word "bender" in the PDF came up blank.

I did give some info about the Blood Kineticist several posts back.

That must be it. Someone called it that did not know it was not its name.

That would be my fault, I was on my phone and at work, this being a bit lazy and hastily typing. I do apologize for that.

Axial wrote:
DM Sothal wrote:

It's not complicated in and on itself. It's just hard to describe without quoting it word for word. Maybe it's my second language english prohibiting me from finding the right words.

Brew Bird wrote:
Anyone look at the Mutation Mind yet? What's it like/how is it different from the base Psychic?
** spoiler omitted **
What use is a strength enhancement to a d6 psychic?

The same use as a Transmutation Specialist Wizard that wants to get up close in melee?

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Mark Seifter wrote:
the xiao wrote:
Sha'ir?!?!? NERDGAAAAASM!
I wrote that one because we wound up having extra space in that section (there were some tweaked wordings that made the other archetypes clearer while simultaneously saving lots of words). I hope you guys like it! It basically has little mini-genies help it with spells and other things instead of having implements.

Jinions?

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gisher wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
the xiao wrote:
Sha'ir?!?!? NERDGAAAAASM!
I wrote that one because we wound up having extra space in that section (there were some tweaked wordings that made the other archetypes clearer while simultaneously saving lots of words). I hope you guys like it! It basically has little mini-genies help it with spells and other things instead of having implements.
Jinions?

Sounds like the Zhyen from Qadira, Gateway to the East.

I dont think much could be said about it yet but does anyone have any opinions yet on the Mindblade Magus? The Soulknife has a special place in my heart and i'd love a Paizo equivalent that can pull its own weight...
Liberty's Edge
Torbyne wrote:
I dont think much could be said about it yet but does anyone have any opinions yet on the Mindblade Magus? The Soulknife has a special place in my heart and i'd love a Paizo equivalent that can pull its own weight...

Psionic magic + spell combat seems like a bad idea from my perspective. I don't want to waste the move action to avoid the +10 concentration check DC penalty, but without it I'm basically guaranteed to lose the spell or provoke an AoO when I'm trying to cast in somebody's face.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
MMCJawa wrote:
So are the Aeons getting a retcon? Lords of Karma sounds like a cool direction, and also sounds like maybe less thematic overlap with inevitables.

I would not say that aeons get a retcon. More of a focus, with a little bit more about the Logos spirit that they claim to communicate with, which plays pretty heavily into the Positive Energy Plane.

Silver Crusade
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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Looking forward to recalibrated, refocused and rebalanced Aeons. If anyone can make them interesting, it's Erik and Brandon.
Mark Seifter wrote:

Oh gotcha. It's sort of the "gives me more, but some of it I don't want" thing. Honestly I do understand that. I've had that affect me myself, even when I was self-aware of it, for instance feeling disinclined to buy game products that had material for a variety of RPG systems, some of which I didn't play, even though the price was a fair one, even a cheap one, when looking just at the pagecount of the Pathfinder material.

This is something that Mavaro runs into also. Being raised a Pharasmin, of course he doesn't want to raise undead, but on the other hand, Mother Wren's skull. In the end (and I mean literally in the end, since it's the last line of the resonant power), the necromantic focus does also help you destroy the undead, and that's what Mavaro wants to do with it.

I'll probably still end up getting the Necromantic Focus (probably at level 6), I just couldn't justify it from a pure crunch perspective at level 4 with the change in Soulbound Puppet to limited duration, since Necromancy was competing with Divination (which was a large part of the character fluff I had going), Conjuration (which gives me something to do in combat), and Transmutation (which makes me useful to the rest of the party). The big thing I had been going for with Soulbound Puppet in the playtest version was actually using the Sage familiar archetype with Soulbound Puppet to have an all-knowing skull.

I'm still considering swapping Conjuration for Necromancy, since Soulbound Puppet seems like it could be more useful for summoning minions than Conjuration's Servitor power.

Then again, this raises the question: visually, what happens when you use Soulbound Puppet on a human skull? Does it grow the flesh puppet around the skull? Does the skull just animate?
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Shisumo wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
I dont think much could be said about it yet but does anyone have any opinions yet on the Mindblade Magus? The Soulknife has a special place in my heart and i'd love a Paizo equivalent that can pull its own weight...
Psionic magic + spell combat seems like a bad idea from my perspective. I don't want to waste the move action to avoid the +10 concentration check DC penalty, but without it I'm basically guaranteed to lose the spell or provoke an AoO when I'm trying to cast in somebody's face.

:( I am sure you are a nice enough person but hearing that the Archetype may not be that useful makes me want to -1 your post.

I'm really happy that the kineticist gets the cantrips associated with their element for free at level one now. I didn't get to do much playtesting, but I do remember very specifically how annoying it was that my pyrokineticist couldn't create a Light effect, lol.
Liberty's Edge
Torbyne wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
I dont think much could be said about it yet but does anyone have any opinions yet on the Mindblade Magus? The Soulknife has a special place in my heart and i'd love a Paizo equivalent that can pull its own weight...
Psionic magic + spell combat seems like a bad idea from my perspective. I don't want to waste the move action to avoid the +10 concentration check DC penalty, but without it I'm basically guaranteed to lose the spell or provoke an AoO when I'm trying to cast in somebody's face.
:( I am sure you are a nice enough person but hearing that the Archetype may not be that useful makes me want to -1 your post.

No offense taken. ;)

It may be better than I'm giving it credit for, but I am absolutely certain that I can't play it the same way I usually play magi.

Do rituals require having a feat to perform them?

Are there any new Investigator talents without having to go Psychic detective?

Also what are the feats like anything interesting for the non occult classes to pick up?

Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
The Exchange
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lanowar wrote:

Are there any new Investigator talents without having to go Psychic detective?

Also what are the feats like anything interesting for the non occult classes to pick up?

No new investigator talents.

The Occult skill unlocks are all unlocked with a single feat that any one can take to gain very minor psychic talent. There are a lot of feats that can build off this psychic talent even if you don't have levels in a psychic class.

Anyone can alter the shape of their skull with Elongated Cranum and don't need to be psychic to be able to do so (though gain additional benefits if they use Psychic magic) (Speaking of Elongated Skull, can someone find good pictures of the three types of modifications so I can better understand what they are supposed to look like).

If you intend on specializing in Possession spells (a new series of spells replacing Magic Jar), there are feats that can make you better at Possession such as bypassing defenses and reading the mind of the host.

Speaking of Possession, Monks can become more resistant to Possession effects with the Spiritual Balance feat

You can learn take the Lucid Dreamer which allows better interaction with Dream and the new Dream spells.

Finally, there is a feat that can make it so you can communicate with creatures you don't share a language with.

Also all of the Metamagic feats are available to everyone (save for the ones, I suppose, that take away the Thought and the Emotion component to spells). Of the Metamagic feats, the one that will be of most interest to people (I think anyway) is the one that lets people cast spells while in a rage.

That's about it. I left some of the list so you'll have to check them out when the book is released.
1 person marked this as a favorite.
xevious573 wrote:
Lanowar wrote:

Are there any new Investigator talents without having to go Psychic detective?

Also what are the feats like anything interesting for the non occult classes to pick up?

No new investigator talents.

The Occult skill unlocks are all unlocked with a single feat that any one can take to gain very minor psychic talent. There are a lot of feats that can build off this psychic talent even if you don't have levels in a psychic class.

Anyone can alter the shape of their skull with Elongated Cranum and don't need to be psychic to be able to do so (though gain additional benefits if they use Psychic magic) (Speaking of Elongated Skull, can someone find good pictures of the three types of modifications so I can better understand what they are supposed to look like).

If you intend on specializing in Possession spells (a new series of spells replacing Magic Jar), there are feats that can make you better at Possession such as bypassing defenses and reading the mind of the host.

Speaking of Possession, Monks can become more resistant to Possession effects with the Spiritual Balance feat

You can learn take the Lucid Dreamer which allows better interaction with Dream and the new Dream spells.

Finally, there is a feat that can make it so you can communicate with creatures you don't share a language with.

Also all of the Metamagic feats are available to everyone (save for the ones, I suppose, that take away the Thought and the Emotion component to spells). Of the Metamagic feats, the one that will be of most interest to people (I think anyway) is the one that lets people cast spells while in a rage.

That's about it. I left some of the list so you'll have to check them out when the book is released.

Wow these sound cool! Is there a list of feats/spells I can take to speed up time and make my copy ship faster?

Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.

I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.

Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.

Yes it is, Ive asked a couple times already for the tricks names and how they work now compared to the playtest. But so far no info.

Alric Rahl wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.
Yes it is, Ive asked a couple times already for the tricks names and how they work now compared to the playtest. But so far no info.

I'm 0 out of 3, as far as any questions answered. I understand no one is obligated to answer, but I was starting to wonder if some glitch was making my posts not show up to other posters. :)

Designer
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.
Yes it is, Ive asked a couple times already for the tricks names and how they work now compared to the playtest. But so far no info.
I'm 0 out of 3, as far as any questions answered. I understand no one is obligated to answer, but I was starting to wonder if some glitch was making my posts not show up.

Mel has been using his stare to make people forget about questioning his mighty powers. After all, knowledge is power, and keeping you in the dark about exactly what he can do increases his power over you.

Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Shisumo wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
When a medium calls up a heirophant spirit, they can gain the ability to channel energy. I'm not seeing any details there, like their effective cleric level. Any help?

In the absence of any other information, wouldn't using medium level as effective cleric level make the most sense?

It would, and is my plan for houserule should it be necessary - but, for example, PFS might see it differently.

What other level would you use? The only alternative by RAW would be to say that the ability does not work at all. So PFS would have to either go with effective cleric level equals medium level or ban the Hierophant spirit entirely -- anything else would require unwarranted creativity.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.
Yes it is, Ive asked a couple times already for the tricks names and how they work now compared to the playtest. But so far no info.
I'm 0 out of 3, as far as any questions answered. I understand no one is obligated to answer, but I was starting to wonder if some glitch was making my posts not show up.
Mel has been using his stare to make people forget about questioning his mighty powers. After all, knowledge is power, and keeping you in the dark about exactly what he can do increases his power over you.

Hmm that makes a lot of sen.....

*feels someone staring at him*

Wait what were we talking about again....
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Alric Rahl wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.
Yes it is, Ive asked a couple times already for the tricks names and how they work now compared to the playtest. But so far no info.
I'm 0 out of 3, as far as any questions answered. I understand no one is obligated to answer, but I was starting to wonder if some glitch was making my posts not show up.
Mel has been using his stare to make people forget about questioning his mighty powers. After all, knowledge is power, and keeping you in the dark about exactly what he can do increases his power over you.

Hmm that makes a lot of sen.....

*feels someone staring at him*

Wait what were we talking about again....

I don't know, but I suddenly feel the strangest compulsion to eat my own feet.

The Exchange
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.
Yes it is, Ive asked a couple times already for the tricks names and how they work now compared to the playtest. But so far no info.
I'm 0 out of 3, as far as any questions answered. I understand no one is obligated to answer, but I was starting to wonder if some glitch was making my posts not show up to other posters. :)

If you liked the Mesmerist in the playtest, especially after the updates given to it in the playtest thread for the class (I certainly did), then you'll find the class more or less how you remembered it. While there might be a few new Tricks (I haven't compared the old mesmerist versus the new mesmerist), the main gifts to the Mesmerist comes in the form of feats and spells.

Feats. The Mesmerist has necessitated a whole NEW category of feats. The Stare feats. These feats augment the painful stare ability, allowing you to trigger additional status effects or more damage when you trigger Painful Stare. Normally you can only use one Stare feat at a time but there is a feat that will allow you to use two Stare feats when triggering Painful Stare. (Sadly that means the Cult Leader archetype can't use these feats as it trades out Painful Stare).

In addition there are a couple of feats that augments people who have tricks waiting on them. One of these gives a boost to initiative while they have a trick waiting on them. So your tricks can give an additional boost while waiting to be triggered.

Spells. The Mesmerist has a very potent spell list. They get a lot of the mind based spells you know and love. They are the second best Possessors next to the Psychic class and they are Second best to the Psychic class in Dream magics. Don't let second best trick you though, they are very, very good in those particular branches of magic. They share alot of the same spells that make a Psychic feel truly psychic, like Psychic surgery (which can undo almost all mental effects such as ability damage and EVEN memory lost from instantaneous effects), mind reading/altering spells, Mindscape spells which make them fairly potent psychic duelists, and other awesome goodies.

normally the class previews are posted at 4, and yhe iconics at 5.
xevious573 wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.
Yes it is, Ive asked a couple times already for the tricks names and how they work now compared to the playtest. But so far no info.
I'm 0 out of 3, as far as any questions answered. I understand no one is obligated to answer, but I was starting to wonder if some glitch was making my posts not show up to other posters. :)

If you liked the Mesmerist in the playtest, especially after the updates given to it in the playtest thread for the class (I certainly did), then you'll find the class more or less how you remembered it. While there might be a few new Tricks (I haven't compared the old mesmerist versus the new mesmerist), the main gifts to the Mesmerist comes in the form of feats and spells.

Feats. The Mesmerist has necessitated a whole NEW category of feats. The Stare feats. These feats augment the painful stare ability, allowing you to trigger additional status effects or more damage when you trigger Painful Stare. Normally you can only use one Stare feat at a time but there is a feat that will allow you to use two Stare feats when triggering Painful Stare. (Sadly that means the Cult Leader archetype can't use these feats as it trades out Painful Stare).

In addition there are a couple of feats that augments people who have tricks waiting on them. One of these gives a boost to initiative while they have a trick waiting on them. So your tricks can give an additional boost while waiting to be triggered.

Spells. The Mesmerist has a very potent spell list. They get a lot of the mind based spells you know and love. They are the second best Possessors next to the Psychic class and they are Second best to the Psychic class in Dream magics. Don't let second...

Thanks! Sounds like the class turned out pretty good. :)

xevious573 wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:
Alric Rahl wrote:
Can we please have the Mesmerist Class Preview now. Im dying over here waiting for it.
I hear ya. The wait, combined with no Mesmerist questions being answered here (besides the archetypes,) is frustrating for us Mesmer fans.
Yes it is, Ive asked a couple times already for the tricks names and how they work now compared to the playtest. But so far no info.
I'm 0 out of 3, as far as any questions answered. I understand no one is obligated to answer, but I was starting to wonder if some glitch was making my posts not show up to other posters. :)

If you liked the Mesmerist in the playtest, especially after the updates given to it in the playtest thread for the class (I certainly did), then you'll find the class more or less how you remembered it. While there might be a few new Tricks (I haven't compared the old mesmerist versus the new mesmerist), the main gifts to the Mesmerist comes in the form of feats and spells.

Feats. The Mesmerist has necessitated a whole NEW category of feats. The Stare feats. These feats augment the painful stare ability, allowing you to trigger additional status effects or more damage when you trigger Painful Stare. Normally you can only use one Stare feat at a time but there is a feat that will allow you to use two Stare feats when triggering Painful Stare. (Sadly that means the Cult Leader archetype can't use these feats as it trades out Painful Stare).

In addition there are a couple of feats that augments people who have tricks waiting on them. One of these gives a boost to initiative while they have a trick waiting on them. So your tricks can give an additional boost while waiting to be triggered.

Spells. The Mesmerist has a very potent spell list. They get a lot of the mind based spells you know and love. They are the second best Possessors next to the Psychic class and they are Second best to the Psychic class in Dream magics. Don't let second...

Thank you so much for this info, this make me really really excited for this class now. is the Painful stare the one that adds the damage or 1d6 if you hit them yourself. if so the ability to add even more status effect is amazing, albeit with a feat but I found at and after certain levels I have dump feats so this is just great.

I have to say that mesmerists are one of the best classes for action economy currently.

Swift for the Stare, Standard to cast Spells, and move for whatever. Then of course free actions for activating tricks not on your turn is just gravy.
Designer
Alric Rahl wrote:

Thank you so much for this info, this make me really really excited for this class now. is the Painful stare the one that adds the damage or 1d6 if you hit them yourself. if so the ability to add even more status effect is amazing, albeit with a feat but I found at and after certain levels I have dump feats so this is just great.

I have to say that mesmerists are one of the best classes for action economy currently.

Swift for the Stare, Standard to cast Spells, and move for whatever. Then of course free actions for activating tricks not on your turn is just gravy.

In the playtest I saw at higher levels, Linda's mesmerist found that the move to Improved Feint (with Greater Feint to make it apply to every attack for 1 round) was super useful.

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