Is it February yet?
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He's got chills,
they're multiplying
and he's losing control
Cause the title you're supplying
It's electrifying
It's the book that he wants
Oo-oo-oh
the book that he wants
oo-oo-oh
Is this about the new race coming out in "Blood Of The Moon"? Because it's an instant buy if it is.
YES! All my begging has born a novel!
A novel set in the Wintery North has been Winter_Born of Mother Bears.
I am certainly looking forward to this one.
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Is this about the new race coming out in "Blood Of The Moon"? Because it's an instant buy if it is.
Yup! :D
Is this about the new race coming out in "Blood Of The Moon"? Because it's an instant buy if it is.Yup! :D
Yay! *pre-ordered*
Oh, I might have to get this book. I like the idea of using the pathfinder tales line to fill in background information on Pathfinder's newer and more exotic races. :D
Product image updated.
Does anyone know who painted the cover art? It's awesome!
Also, I just discovered this forum discussion today, and my mind is blown. Fingers are crossed that you all enjoy the book!
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I also, am looking forward to reading this one. I remember how Mother Bears tugged at my parental heartstrings. I was excited to hear that Wendy Wagner was going to be writing a book with her characters, soon it shall be a reality in my iPad!
-Aaron
Looking forward to reading it!
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I already told Wendy, but so everyone knows: the cover is by Michal Ivan, and is my favorite PF Tales art to date!
I second the "favorite Pathfinder Tales art to date" bit. Michal Ivan has done some stellar cover art for several books but this one is my favorite so far.
Looks and sounds wicked... Congrats to Wendy, and Kudos to James!
Pushed to March. Aww. :(
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The cover art is great, and I like that the heroine poised to strike is wearing clothes.
The negative review reminded me to pick this one up, as I loved the Mother Bears web fiction. I'm about a third of the way through, and enjoying it. It's certainly gritty and violent, but considering the villains appear to be
it's to be expected.
I'm pretty much halfway through now, and I completely understand why the reviewer decided to put the book down. Violence/gore doesn't tend to bother me - heck, I was watching the Hannibal TV show when I bought this, figuring: "How bad could it be?" - but there have certainly been a few passages which seemed unnecessarily graphic.
Considering how different this is in tone from all the other fiction produced by Pathfinder Tales to date, I believe this book might merit a warning in its product description.
FYI, James Sutter and the author of this book are the featured "guest geeks" on the most recent Geek's Guide to the Galaxy podcast
Wow, I'm really surprised to see people balking at the violence. When Wendy and I were first talking about this book, the closest analogues we could come up with were Beowulf/Eaters of the Dead, and I was actually afraid that the book *wouldn't* seem gritty enough to get across the same Viking flavor. I was afraid of making the Jendara story too soft and fairy-tale-ish. Perhaps we leaned too far the opposite direction.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm curious if others agree or disagree...?
You had me at comparing this book to Eaters of the Dead (and by extension, reminding me that I haven't watched The 13th Warrior in too long).
I'm a big fan of Clive Barker and Neil Gaiman, so sex and gore don't bother me all that much in books (I'm not totally desensitized, mind you, but desensitized enough).
Anyway, these reviews actually increased my interest in picking this one up.
Wow, I'm really surprised to see people balking at the violence. When Wendy and I were first talking about this book, the closest analogues we could come up with were Beowulf/Eaters of the Dead, and I was actually afraid that the book *wouldn't* seem gritty enough to get across the same Viking flavor. I was afraid of making the Jendara story too soft and fairy-tale-ish. Perhaps we leaned too far the opposite direction.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm curious if others agree or disagree...?
It's all a matter of opinion of course. I'm also curious as to what other people think of it. I can understand that this one was aiming to be gritty, and when you're dealing with cannibals there's only a few ways to play it. When I get the chance I'll re-read and indicate what I thought unnecessary.
What's wrong with you people? You're American! Violence = good, nipples = bad! Being aghast at gore is something for those pansy Euro wussies, not for true descendants of Founding Fathers! :P
Last I checked I was happily un-American. Must be my delicate colonial sensibilities.
Anyway, these reviews actually increased my interest in picking this one up.
Excellent! :D
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In case I seemed too brusque before (I was honestly caught of guard!), I'd like to reiterate that we *are* very careful in how we deal with sensitive issues, specifically violence against children, rape, etc. For instance, you're never going to see a rape scene in a Pathfinder Tales novel. Just not going to happen.
That said, I *do* think it's important to remember that while some of the Pathfinder books may be appropriate for children, our world has never been branded as child-safe. Whether you think a given issue is too mature for a given child is totally up to you. I *can* say that I don't think anything we print is anywhere near as potentially objectionable as best-sellers like Stephen King, George R. R. Martin, etc. (We don't even use the F-word, which is more than can be said of PG-13 movies.)
Darkness has a place in Pathfinder. For this book in particular, it was important to me that we not soft-sell the Kalvamen, the cannibal raiders that even badass vikings are afraid of. So yes, there is cannibalism. There is death (though I didn't feel like it was the grisliest warfare we've seen in Pathfinder Tales so far). There is even a three-word reference to rape, one that neither the author nor I took lightly, and which we thought several times about cutting. But in the end, we gambled and opted to leave it in, because as much as rape is a terribly overused and often harmful crutch in fiction, and should generally be left out of a story unless you're prepared to treat the issue with the gravitas it warrants, it felt disingenuous to us to gloss over that aspect of the raiders completely.
Did we choose poorly? Perhaps we did, and I apologize to those who were disappointed or triggered by the book. But I'd also like to hear the opinions of as many folks as possible, to help us better calibrate to what all of you want to read. Because this is as much about your opinions as it is about ours.
So what do you think?
Basically, the point of contention will be when Jendara is captured by the Kalvamen. That section felt a little excessive to me, and a little overly cruel towards Jendara. I mean, she fights the squid which seriously injures one of her arms (a battle which does little to advance the plot, unfortunately). Then she gets captured and knocked out for an afternoon, without a chance to defend herself. Then she's tied up and has her arms dislocated, witnesses some ritual sacrifice and cannibalism, and then it just gets darker from there.
Too much bad stuff happening to a character - especially if they're helpless to do anything about it - makes it difficult to empathise with the character. You don't want to feel for them because doing so offers little reward since all they're doing is suffering. It's good that she's planning her escape all through this section, but her powerlessness makes any violence that happens worse because then it's abuse/torture rather than a fight.
To be honest though, the majority of the ick is this bit in Kalira's retelling of what happened to her and their family:
Her eyes focused on Jendara’s face for a second. “Have you ever watched a woman scream as her lips are being chewed off? The sound . . .”
She paused and took a deep drink of the wine. Jendara wondered if she dared speak, but Kalira continued. “After they had eaten their fill, including Father’s liver, spleen, and male member —I won’t tell you the things they did to him, while he was still alive—they took the youngest of us and put us in their ships. We were both larder and playthings for the Kalvamen, and the three days and nights we rowed to their island were filled with screams.” She touched her collarbone thoughtfully. “I prayed to the spirits that I would die. I prayed you would appear with your ship and save me. I prayed to every god and every ancestor every single second of that voyage, even as blood leaked from my ears and my nose and between my legs. I prayed and prayed.”
Especially since it never states how old Kalira is, except that she's younger than Jendara. Depending on how old you imagine her to be, that makes what she's retelling all the more horrific.
I understand that it needs to be gritty. I just think that bits like this could've been written in a slightly more subtle way.
I've read perhaps half the novels in the Pathfinder Tales line, and mentally labeled them with the PG-13 rating that the majority of Paizo's stuff hangs around. Sure, there's the occasional item that strays towards the R-rated line, but this definitely seems to be the most boundary-pushing book that's been released. I understand that this content wouldn't be out-of-place in a George R.R. Martin novel, but there it's to be expected. Here it seems a little jarring and out-of-place.
I'm saddened that this one bit overshadows the rest of the book in my mind, as it's an enjoyable debut novel from a promising author. I certainly hope this isn't the last adventure of Jendara and Kran.
Disclaimer: I have not read ubiquitous's above post yet as I have not yet read Skinwalkers. However, I have read all of the other Pathfinder Tales novels, except The Dagger of Trust (I am currently rereading all of Dave Gross' Pathfinder stories so all other books have been on hold).
There is definitely darkness and mature content in the other novels. WARNING: SPOILERS FOR EVERY BOOK MENTIONED!
I'm not turned off by a little bit of mature content in a book. That said, to date I would rate all of the Pathfinder Tales (except The Worldwound Gambit, which I rated as R for violence and disturbing imagery) as being PG rated under the US's MPAA rating guide. It sounds like Skinwalkers might get another "R" rating. I started Queen of Thorns last night. I think I will put it down to read Skinwalkers so that I can chime in on this debate more relevantly.
I will certainly let you know what I think after I'm done reading it. I may chime in here with spoilered posts as I read to let you know what I am thinking as I read it.
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Just above the top review there's a link named "Write a review".
I am halfway through the book. I'm going to spoiler the rest of my post to avoid... spoiling people who haven't read it, I guess.
The reference to rape in the book is, I think, appropriate, given what the Kalvamen are and what Vikings did historically.
I have noticed more errors in the text that would likely have been caught in another editing pass than I normally see in PF Tales novels. For example, the word "revenge" was used when it should have been "avenge." Occasionally an article is left out that would make things more clear. Usually my brain figures it out and fills it in. If I wasn't reading the book mainly while walking to work or feeding the baby at 2AM, I would mark down the errors for correction in the digital version (and future printed versions).
Anyway, there's my thoughts so far. The book is certainly "R" rated, but no worse than some of the other PF Tales novel. When I finish the book, I'll get a review up. Right now, I'm thinking that it's a 4 star novel.
I stand corrected, by a real editor no less! I also learned something new today.
Regarding Skinwalkers: in my head, all the inhabitants of the Ironbound Archipelago (except Jendara and the crew of Milady) speak with my Grandfather's Swedish lilt. I don't know if they were supposed to be written that way, but that's the voice they have for me.
My continued thoughts. Spoilers within!
Kalira on the other hand, prayed and prayed to anything that might hear her and was eventually answered by something else. Something EEeevil! I have decided that she must be a witch.
The love interest between Jendara and Vorrin is, a little cheesy, but I don't think it negatively effects the story.
The Isle of Ancestors strikes me as having a doorway to the first world, or maybe the barrier is just thinner there.
I was pretty interested in this book since I have been wanting to play a skinwalker character. I thought it would be an interesting way to get a peek at what such a character might be like. I have to say that the things I'm reading about what the skinwalkers are doing in the book makes it likely that this isn't a good book to get character ideas from :(
Plus, I read book 1 of the Game of Thrones and decided it was too graphic for my tastes. If people are comparing it to that then I think that settles things for me, lol.
I was pretty interested in this book since I have been wanting to play a skinwalker character. I thought it would be an interesting way to get a peek at what such a character might be like. I have to say that the things I'm reading about what the skinwalkers are doing in the book makes it likely that this isn't a good book to get character ideas from :(
Yeah, the skinwalkers in this book are definitely *not* the iconic skinwalkers. Skinwalkers aren't inherently bad folks, it's just that the raiders in this one also happen to be skinwalkers.
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Reviewed!
Review was originally posted on my blog, The Grassy Gnoll. Version here is snipped for length, you can read the full review here if you wish: Review - Pathfinder Tales: Skinwalkers.
Hope it helps some people decide. Oh, and Matrix Dragon? I wouldn't say it's Game of Thrones level, but that's just my personal view.
I've just posted my interview with Wendy N. Wagner over on The Grassy Gnoll, which includes some discussion of the process of writing Skinwalkers, and writing for Pathfinder Tales in general.
Interview with Wendy N. Wagner, Author of Skinwalkers | The Grassy Gnoll
EDIT: And if anyone was curious, apparently James Sutter is an awesome editor. Woo! Go Sutter!
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I have just finished reading this novel and wanted to add my comments to James Sutter's request above for gauging opinions and calibration.
I have to say I think this is one of the better novels in the Pathfinder Tales line and I have read most of them now. The title refers to a group of barbaric people in a barbaric end of Golarion, so my view is that the level of violence is about right for a Paizo product. Taking on board the comments above, and fully understanding the level is not for everyone, I have to say that within this bestial context the lack of violence, brutality and even rape would be unbelievable for me. The fact the author / editor have incorporated the latter in a subtle fashion that might well be missed by younger readers, yet is clear to most adults, is thoughtful, clever and laudable.
I will add one more positive I have surprisingly not seen in the comments so far, and that is I found this book the most horror-filled of the line so far (and that includes Nightglass amazingly). The initial period when the general enemy is unclear and unknown was chilling.
Protecting people and children from unsuitable material is vital, so perhaps the suggestion elsewhere of a guide to violence and other adult themes might be an aid to parents on the books, while allowing some themes to be treated without being neutered?
Well done Wendy - I'd say you should be very proud of your first novel and, like many others, I hope we can see more of Jendara in the future please.
J
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What I found really weird was that this novel is heavy on gore but the writing style is teen fiction (lots of explicit repetition of key plot points. Dialogue used to spell out exactly how people feel).
I actually felt quite patronised by this novel: Wendy has written great scenes with evocative writing but follows it up all too often with a clumsy hammer of just making sure you know what's going on, you thicko.
The scene where Jendara disembarks at the Isle of the Ancestors is a perfect example and, re-reading, the most disappointing thing is that if I crossed it all out you'd have a slimmer (why is this book 100 pages longer than Prince of Wolves?) superior novel.
So many great turns of phrase in this novel and a decent plot too but all undermined by the idiot hammers, especially the dialogue.
I am about half way through the book I am just past the point of
I am liking it so far. I liked the tension and horror built up to the revealed. It reminds a little of the old horror movies.
Is it perfect...no. But than again I noticed it is her first novel. So taking that into account I really want to see her write more.