Perhaps no environment is more iconic, more varied, and more fearsome than the dungeon, and when you delve into the perilous, monster-infested ruins of ages lost, you need all the help you can get! Intrepid explorers in search of the ultimate tomb raider’s boon need look no further than Pathfinder Player Companion: Dungeoneer’s Handbook! Packed with useful tips, handy tricks, and new rules and options, this volume is a must-have for any adventurer looking to brave the world’s most infamous dungeons.
Dungeoneer’s Handbook presents player-focused, in-depth discussion of dungeons, their dangers, and ways to survive your exploration—whether it's your first time or your twentieth. Each Pathfinder Player Companion includes new options and tools for every Pathfinder RPG player. Inside this book, you’ll find:
Informative and inspiring articles on iconic dungeon elements and tips on how to survive the deadly traps, monstrous inhabitants, and cursed treasures you’ll undoubtedly encounter.
New archetypes perfect for characters that frequently find themselves deep underground or in forgotten catacombs, including the trap breaker alchemist, terra-cotta monk, and dungeon rover ranger.
New spells and magic items for every dungeon situation.
Rules for dungeon guides—informative (but oft-misleading) tomes that can be either a boon or a curse for those aimlessly wandering dungeon halls.
Archetypes and rules for hirelings who can take care of your estate and other mundane matters while you’re away on your latest excursion.
New dungeon-related feats, traits, dungeoneering aides, alchemical equipment, and more!
Each monthly 32-page Pathfinder Player Companion contains several player-focused articles exploring the volume’s theme as well as short articles with innovative new rules for all types of characters, as well as traits to better anchor the player to the campaign.
ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-510-5
Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:
OK, this is a fine & useful guidebook for Pathfinder players. It has lots of crunchy fluff and fluffy crunch. Six Archetypes, eight feats, four traits, and over two dozen items. Section on Dungeon guids (books and maps), famous dungeons, traps, etc.
They have one piece of advice which can be disastrously wrong: The advice that the main route into a chamber is usually not trapped, as it’s a route that would have to be taken many times a day. This is true if we’re talking realistic, but few dungeons are designed in a realistic fashion.
The "Ostentation Display" feat should be a rule, not a feat. You'd be crazy to waste a feat on this.
So, trying this again as my last review disappeared when I tried to submit it.
Quickie Review: Dungeoneer's Handbook is a lesson in mediocrity from a company that tends to do better. To be fair, their Player's Companion product line does tend to be a mixed bag when it comes to quality as it seems to be where Paizo places some of their newer more experimental writers. That said, there are a few gems in this product, so if you choose to buy it, you may want to stick to the PDF.
In Depth Review:
The Good:
There were only a couple things that really stood out as great for me. "The Torchbearer" was a neat concept. A weaker Leadership feat that eventually grows up into the Leadership feat at 8th level. The companion is limited in what class they can be but has access to some neat archetypes provided in the book. While "Blazing Torchbearer" and "Sapper" are questionable to the point of being nigh useless, the other's are kind of, well, neat for a hireling to have. The ranger archetype "The Groom" protects the horses and can scout out towns to help PC's find where to get that spell or service they need. The Ranger archetype "Dungeon Rover" is basically, well, a Dungeon oriented Ranger, and a pretty solid one at that. The "Terra-Cotta Monk" is pretty solid as well, with the "Stone Grip" ability invoking some rather neat mental images of a monk crawling along the ceiling towards it's unaware target. The "Trap Breaker" alchemist pretty much does what the name implies and has the added perk of being able to convert bombs into land mines, all in exchange for the poison abilities which seems to be the perfect trade off.
The traits on the inside of the back cover are neat. Two give more unusual PC's some nice fluff while providing a fairly solid benefit. Destine For Greatness makes the use of Kits far more appealing than they might otherwise be. Lost Role Model, well, that depends on how the key feature is used. A couple of other feats stood out as neat, such as "Close Call", "Cursed Item Detection" and "Dampen Presence", they actually struck me as being the only real worthwhile feats in the book.
The Meh:
There's a lot of Meh in here. After all, this is a Dungeoneer's Guide, which means unless you're new to the hobby, it's been done, about as much as 'hero point' rules, and this book is merely Paizo's take on it. Or at least feels that way. The advise is solid, but standard, with Golarion specific dungeons mentioned in blurbs giving the book a more campaign specific feel. Feats like "Coaxing Spell" and "Arcane Trap Suppressor" were alright, but offset by either a high spell level cost or a rather situational effect. The equipment was a mixed bag that basically evens out on the 'worth-it' and 'worthless' side of things.
Most notable here, belongs to the concept of Dungeon Guides. These are journals, stories, text books, on specific dungeons that, if utilized properly, give you an edge on certain skills. It's an interesting concept, but an awkward execution. The price for the sample tomes are ridiculous, the mechanics behind it are iffy, but I could see them being very neat as a plot device far superior to the classic trope of the map found in the treasure hoard or on the dead pirates belt.
The Fugly:
"Tactical Re-positioning" seemed to do something that one could easily argue the Re-positioning Maneuver should do already. The Feat "Ostentatious Display" struck me as being useless, pointless, needlessly convoluted and a poor concept altogether. Basically you get a +1 bonus to a social skill based on what type of bling you have and what magic item slot it takes up. To give you an example, per the feat, you might get a +1 intimidation bonus for a Diamond Studded Belt, but a necklace of Skulls and Bloody Ears would give you a +1 Diplomacy bonus. Oh, and in order to benefit from it, you have to give up a magic item slot, because the bonus doesn't apply to gaudy magic items. Altogether, about as worthless as a feat can be, without taking 'Prone Shooter' from "Ultimate Combat".
The spells they offered were, well, almost insulting. There was one 4th level spell that did damage equivalent to a fireball to 1 creature, but you could have it affect more (up to a 25ft square) at the cost of damage. There was the "Create Holds" spell, which is neat in concept, but should probably be 2nd level seeing as "Spider Climb, Communal" pretty much accomplishes more, better, and at 3rd level. "Discern Value" seems like a needlessly convoluted, needlessly high level spell to replace using appraise (and poorly). "Determine Depth" is so situational is should probably be level 1 instead of 2. "Nature's Ravages" is like the reverse of "Gentle Repose" but it's a 4 Cleric/3 Witch for some strange reason.
All in all, I give this a 2.5, some neat stuff, but an ultimately forgettable product. As 2.5 isn't an option, I'm listing it as 2, because mediocrity is a sin in and of itself, or maybe I'm just a jerk.
A lot of the player material is very focused and exclusive, which in my mind is a bad thing. However, in this case the book does come out and say early on that it is mostly for Rangers, Rogues, and Alchemists. It has minima material for everyone else, but like I said, to be fair, the book does mention that.
The artwork is amazing, and moreso than most other books, it really seems to be designed to illistrate what the book is talking about rather than just being placed there as a halfway related nice picture.
The material is a bit monotinous, and is really questionable as a "Players Guide". A great deal of the material is either strictly for DM's/GM's, or intended for both, but more so on the GM side who has the option to use it than for player's who may never really even have the chance, (from an out-of-character point of view).
A few kits are included, a few spells, and a few feats, but they don't really come across as must haves, and in some spell cases I really wonder why they are that high level. For example, Nature's Ravages is a 4th level Cleric, 3rd Level Witch spell that essentually does the opposite of Gentle Repose, causing things to age by 1 day per 2 CL, (max of 10 days). Seems like a good 0 level spell, (unless I'm missing something), a weaker 1st level spell, but not at all worthy of 3rd or 4th level slots. Create Holds alows you to make basically a ladder on a solid rock for 1/level, and is a 4th level Druid/Wizard, 3 level Ranger spell. Stone Shape is a 3rd level Cleric/Druid, 4th level Wizard spell that allows some really similar thing, but has lot of other uses. Shouldn't Ceate Holds then be a level or 2 lower for being less useful in general, and not as open to other classes? It itself kind of seems like at best 1st level spell material.
The good. It gives a lot of good, useful ideas and suggestions for running dungeons, particularly for a DM that likes to use a lot of flavor and create their own material. It is not really setting specific. The art is really good, including some things that can be used as either hand outs or used as examples to create your own hand outs. Guidlines on making "traps" that are not traps, and just a lot of little things like that. The new NPC/hireling material is cool, but see below. I do not remember seeing any Roles, so that is amazing.
The Bad. One thing I don't like about a lot of Paizo's books about topics is that they take some of the most obvious choices in related to the subject and continue to elevate those rather than try to give options for everyone. It creates a divide rather than allowing for more inclusive games. It boosts Alchemists, Rangers, Rogues (and Wizards I guess), but doesn't offer any ways for other classes to really fit into a campaign that is dungeon exploration/survival heavy. Nothing really for the Cavalier, Cleric/Oracle, Fighter, Paladin, Monk, Sorcerer, etc. . . that brings them in line for the playstyle the book is about. Normally this would net around a 1 or 2 stars for the review, but as I've mentioned a few times, the book does say this up front, so to be fair, what it does say it will bring it does bring. The new hirelings material is very cool, but it seems that like with the Knights book, Leadership and being able to have cohorts and hirelings is usually either banned outright or otherwise not allowed, both in home games and in PFS. Needs to be more player focused, though really to be fair this probably should have been in a more DM centric line with a small player's section.
All in all, for what it is and says it does, it's a pretty good book. If your looking either for ideas to use in building a dungeon or to be able to top of your very dungeon-explory Alchemist, Ranger, or Rogue, it's probably a good buy. If you not doing those things, you should probably skip it, though the PDF is is chap enough that it's hard to complain.
This is one of those books that may influence how you play your character in a particular situation (in a dungeon, obviously) as much as provide character building options (feats, archetypes). I enjoyed reading it, which is not always true of books with lots of useful options. I also liked the new rules for dungeon guides and torchbearer hirelings.
You can read a more extensive review on my blog Delver's Diary, where I also consider the book from the perspective of Pathfinder Society play.
This guide provides all of a player's preparation needs regarding tomb raiding, dungeon delving and crypt breaking, as well as covering traps, treasures and monsters.
In addition to those topics, it is packed with useful tips, handy tricks, and new rules and options, such as hirelings and alchemical equipment!
This is a must have for any dungeon delver type of player!
If you mean this one, it doesn't grant trapfinding.
Yea, that's the one I meant. Guess it doesn't work for them. There are a few spells that can do it, but I doubt they meant that. Perhaps they meant the Seeker Oracle / Sorcerer archetype.
White-haired Witches can take Rogue Talents. Use the Ninja Trick rogue talent to select the trapfinding Ninja Trick. That is what I meant. :-P
I hope we get some traps that really scare people. :)
Since it's from a player-centric line, it's probably more how to avoid scary traps...
That is just so... wrong! Totally unfair! I forbid all players to purchase this!
You raise a fair point, Asgetrion, and we gave this exact potential problem a lot of consideration while assigning and developing this book. The point of Dungeoneer's Handbook isn't to antagonize the GM or make dungeons less exciting for gamers. To the contrary! This Player Companion contains advice and new features for players regarding how to avoid hazards or turn potential traps into boons, but it can also be utilized by clever GMs to make dungeons more perilous, more ingenious, and generally more fun for everyone. While there is definitely a lot of crunch, there's also a lot of inspiration, and players and GMs from all walks should appreciate the way we handled the delicate line between player knowledge and GM knowledge.
In no way is the point of Dungeoneer's Handbook to pit the players against the GM (well, no more than usual, at least, depending on your group) or give away all of the GM's cherished secrets. Rest assured, the way it's been designed is about how to enhance the fun of dungeon exploration rather than detract from it.
I wouldn't mind seeing a "Pathfinder: Dungeoneer Builder's Handbook" filled with new traps, and interesting encounters ideas that incorporate tactical combat.
Either way, I am glad to see new material :)
Please do continue to find new ways to get my money! :)
I was pretty sure he was joking! But either way that's good to here. Looks like a cool product.
Joking?! On my product discussion page? Blasphemy!
Spoiler:
Just playin'. :P I know, I know, I'm a big Serious Sally, but I figured if there was any place to drop in that little tidbit about this book and assuage the fears of the more heart attack-prone GMs out there, Asgetrion's post was the one to reply to!
I would love to see a factotum type base or alternate class (maybe a rogue alternate) that grants a pool similar to insight and gives sla's in addition to the ability to mimic class features at the cost of said points.
Alas i really doubt paizo wants to make another base class.
Alas i really doubt paizo wants to make another base class.
Ah yes, such an addition would have much wider-ranging implications to the game than we'd like to produce in a Player Companion. If we do decide to make another base class, it would undoubtedly appear in the Pathfinder RPG line.
I was pretty sure he was joking! But either way that's good to here. Looks like a cool product.
Joking?! On my product discussion page? Blasphemy!
** spoiler omitted **
HA! Yeah, Grimmy is right; I was joking, but I can't deny that it's still a real issue in my group. As it stands, the rogue PC auto-detects most of the mechanical traps, and the wizard has Detect Magic always on to handle magical ones. I need to use combat encounters mixed in with traps and/or really high Perception DCs to ever hit them with a trap. Now, I'm not an antagonistic GM who fights his players, but I'd still like to see them blunder into a trap every now and then.
It's the same with cursed items (the group also includes a bard, an oracle and a wizard -- all with high Spellcraft scores), but that's another issue altogether...
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
hmmm, interesting... and Makes sense like in a Duh! kind of sense..
Arcane Trap Suppressor
Your magic can suppress magic traps longer than usual.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast dispel magic or greater dispel magic as a spell or spell-like ability.
Benefit: When you target a magic trap with dispel magic or greater dispel magic, if your caster level check exceeds the Disable Device DC of the trap, the trap is disabled for 1d4 minutes.
Normal: Dispel magic suppresses an item’s magical properties for 1d4 rounds.
I never even thought about using the Magic Item suppression rules for how Dispel Magic works on Magical Traps... The only issue is how often do the put the Spell Caster level of the trap in?
I hope we get some traps that really scare people. :)
Since it's from a player-centric line, it's probably more how to avoid scary traps...
By throwing halflings and bards into the trap to set them off? :)
This reminds of a funny story that happened with my GM's group before my time.
Anyway the GM was playing a GMPC who was a bard and completely loyal to the leader of the group. The player of that character was under the mistaken impression that bard could find(well tecnically anybody can actualy find the trap) and remove traps. So he would order the GMPC to check for traps. The GMPC completely loyal saw it as a chance to take a bullet for the leader so the bard found all the traps...the painful way. Not realizing that the leader had no idea about bard abilities.
This went on for levels and levels before the lerader read the rules his mistake. After in and out of game apologies and alot of out of game laughter they decide they need new tactics for dealing with traps.
And yes, Trap Breaker and Vivisectionist are strangely compatible, although you end up trading all your poison abilities for trapfinding.
I got the book, noticed that, disappointingly sat stunned for a while, and then knew what I'd be recommending from here on out. Even with 3 useless abilities, I still think you'd be better off as a vivi/trap breaker. Extracts are very useful, and the discoveries could really help a sneaky type out.
It's a pretty cool archetype though. I like that land mine rewards a bit more prepared thinking. Do the mines still count against the alchemist's daily limit on bombs for consecutive days?
Technically, unless I misread the rules, Crypt Breaker combines with Trap Breaker. The only issue I see is that both archetypes trade out something different for Trapfinding. How would that work out? Or am I misremembering the rules for archetypes and you can not actually combine those two?
Technically, unless I misread the rules, Crypt Breaker combines with Trap Breaker. The only issue I see is that both archetypes trade out something different for Trapfinding. How would that work out? Or am I misremembering the rules for archetypes and you can not actually combine those two?
I don't have this book yet. That said, a character can take two archetypes that grant the same ability (trapfinding in this case). The alchemist in question would gain trapfinding as usual, though he would be losing two other abilities in the process. What he can't do, is take two archetypes that require him to sacrifice the same ability.
Crude example: a fighter could take two archetypes that both grant him trapfinding, and he would gain trapfinding once. He cannot, however, take two archetypes that both sacrifice his bravery ability. He can only give up bravery once. Er, is that what you mean?
They trade their poison related abilities for trapfinding, the ability to disarm traps at range and landmines.
I take it that landmines are bombs that can be placed and go off when someone triggers them? Does that ability effect the normal bomb ability or is it an addition.
Sorry for all the questions but Trap Breaker sounds perfect for a new character I am building. I just have to wait until Wednesday for the PDF to become available. :P
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
I just started flipping through mine, so I don't have much detailed info. Five new archetypes, some new feats, new spells, new traps new regional traits and alchemical equipment. Everything has a very dungeon delving sorta theme. There are also tips for surviving dungeons and little bits of info on famous dungeons.
I want to know what is in it before I consider purchasing. All the other product pages have people spilling contents all the time, I just wonder why so many are silent on this one?
I want to know what is in it before I consider purchasing. All the other product pages have people spilling contents all the time, I just wonder why so many are silent on this one?
A major hunk of this issue features some nicely thought out preamble, descriptions of various dungeon types, advice on dungeoneering, in-game assistance tomes, selling treasure, what qualifies as treasure, etc. It won't tickle everyone's interest, but even an old jaded nerd like me ended up nodding along with what was presented.
There are a few new feats peppered around, such as: Arcane Trap Suppressor, Close Call, and Tactical Reposition, Coaxing Spell and Dampen Presence.
There are three new types of hirelings. And then there is the Torchbearer Feat with associated mechanics. I actually liked this quite a bit, but people that disdain Leadership mechanics in their games are likely going to have their same fears, issues, bans, workarounds, etc. Torchbearers also get their own archetypes (Sapper, Groom, Blazing Torchbearer).
There are three new PC archetypes with the Dungeon Rover (Ranger), Terra-cotta Monk (Monk), and the Trap Breaker (Alchemist).
Toward the back we get new dungeon gear and alchemical items (8 Dungeon Items & 9 Alchemical Items with a couple alternate versions within each list). Some of them are really clever/fun and my personal favs were the Jetcaster, Pomander, Bone Paste, Cardice Oil and the Petrified Ooze.
The book wraps up with Magic Items and Magic Spells. Within are two new Weapon Qualities: Breaking & Shattering. There are nine new wondrous items, of which I quite liked Evidentiary Dust and Smear of Seeing. There are five new spells (six if you count the "greater" spell) and they are: Conjure Deadfall, Create Holds, Determine Depth, Discern Value, Nature's Ravages and Greater Nature's Ravages
