I'm afraid that's not gonna ever happen. WotC holds the rights to Dragon/Dungeon contents and to make any compilations of them.
The only thing I am hoping to see in the future is a sequal to that Best of Dragon Magazine hardcover they did when Paizo was just launching Pathfinder. That is an oft used book at my table and needs a sequal yesterday.
I cling to a dead dream, friend, but I cling tightly.
There will not be a PDF of this book due to rights issues, and we do not have any preorder bonuses planned for this book.I suspected this would happen, sadly I will not be buying this product then.
Sad to hear. Likewise.
There will not be a PDF of this book due to rights issues, and we do not have any preorder bonuses planned for this book.I suspected this would happen, sadly I will not be buying this product then.
That is a shame. This is the perfect kind of coffee table book and that is exactly what I plan on doing with it. A .pdf would never see use for me.
People keep asking for art books, and we keep saying that they don't sell. This may be your one and only chance to prove us wrong on that.
I bought quite a lot of books because of the art on and in them (in most case I was also pleased with the rest of the content), so I am kind of liking that kind of things.
That is a shame. This is the perfect kind of coffee table book and that is exactly what I plan on doing with it. A .pdf would never see use for me.There will not be a PDF of this book due to rights issues, and we do not have any preorder bonuses planned for this book.I suspected this would happen, sadly I will not be buying this product then.
The coffee table aspect is what keeps it from being an easy "no" for me. However, as GM of a home campaign, being able to use illustrations for creation of encounters, locations and the like is crucial, and a book like this (unlike pretty much every other book, which I do get softcopy) is inherently useless in this regard.
I'm sure it'll be an awesome book, and Wayne Reynolds is definitely an awesome guy, but unfortunately this is not high on my buy list (and with the uber-high cost of the minis, I really have to stop buying stuff just because it's "cool").
Edit: And actually, given that it will only be useful as a coffee-table book, I'd like to see it published in an oversize format. That would change me from "rather unlikely" to "rather likely" to purchase it.
The coffee table aspect is what keeps it from being an easy "no" for me. However, as GM of a home campaign, being able to use illustrations for creation of encounters, locations and the like is crucial, and a book like this (unlike pretty much every other book, which I do get softcopy) is inherently useless in this regard.I'm sure it'll be an awesome book, and Wayne Reynolds is definitely an awesome guy, but unfortunately this is not high on my buy list (and with the uber-high cost of the minis, I really have to stop buying stuff just because it's "cool").
Edit: And actually, given that it will only be useful as a coffee-table book, I'd like to see it published in an oversize format. That would change me from "rather unlikely" to "rather likely" to purchase it.
maybe they could do a PDF with the images they own the rights of, but...
That is a shame. This is the perfect kind of coffee table book and that is exactly what I plan on doing with it. A .pdf would never see use for me.There will not be a PDF of this book due to rights issues, and we do not have any preorder bonuses planned for this book.I suspected this would happen, sadly I will not be buying this product then.
I'm the exact opposite. All my gaming is done online, meaning all the things I would use this art for would need to be in a digital format, and I don't own a scanner. I have limited storage space, and can't have things shipped to my current location. Plus that physical books are far more expensive than digital, and my funds are rather limited and will be for the foreseeable future.
If it's not a PDF, I simply cannot purchase it.
As a (related) derailment, I believe Paizo currently buys the originals for all the artwork they commission for Pathfinder stuff - but they didn't always do so. I could be wrong, of course, but that's what Wayne told me at Origins a few years ago.
Anyone have any idea how much of the Pathfinder artwork hasn't been acquired up by Paizo?
People keep asking for art books, and we keep saying that they don't sell. This may be your one and only chance to prove us wrong on that.
If you don't remember this was announced more than a year ago, there is no way you would know now that is is available for pre-order. No wonder art books don't sell, if this is the way you're trying to sell them!
This is a Paizo product and as such, if it is really going to be released on February, it needs to be listed on the Product Schedule page.
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If you don't remember this was announced more than a year ago, there is no way you would know now that is is available for pre-order. No wonder art books don't sell, if this is the way you're trying to sell them!
This is a Paizo product and as such, if it is really going to be released on February, it needs to be listed on the Product Schedule page.
Heh, I'm pretty sure Mr Wertz is going by previous experience (such as Art of Dragon Magazine) as well as general insight he may have gained through research. There's been some skepticism coming from Paizo regarding art books since way before this one was announced.
What would the purpose of a pdf be?
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What would the purpose of a pdf be?
Much like the print copy, the purpose would be to look at and appreciate Mr. Reynolds' art.
With the added benefit of being able to export images from the PDF in order to use for your own RPG projects. Plus, there's the issue of storage space. If I replaced everything in my library of RPG PDF products with a physical copy, I dunno where I would live, since my apartment would be overflowing with books.
The thing is, though, this isn't an RPG book. It's an art book, and as such, it should be enjoyed in the manner that the artist desires.
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The thing is, though, this isn't an RPG book. It's an art book, and as such, it should be enjoyed in the manner that the artist desires.
And that seems to be the case here as well. Unfortunately, that does mean that some gamers who might have been on the fence about buying this book has opted out because its usefulness to them at the gaming table is almost nonexistent. A choice has been made by the people releasing the book (in this case either Paizo or Wayne Reynolds or both) and as with every other choice any publisher makes, this choice removes a part of the potential customer base.
This is an artbook, of course, and it's not designed for gaming purposes.
Cant most of his art be found online?
This is a Paizo product and as such, if it is really going to be released on February, it needs to be listed on the Product Schedule page.
Ah, so I see it has been bumped to August 2013.
As for the matter of art books not selling, I find it interesting that The Art of Brom reached $235,319 on Kickstarter recently (for 2,374 backers and a $12,000 goal), and The Complete Elmore Artbook, $299,914 (for 2,097 backers and a $17,500 goal).
Paizo probably wishes for more than 2,000 sales for Visions of WAR, but still. Interesting.
This has become a joke. August 2013. I pre-ordered it on Amazon 1 year ago and now 8 more months.
Chief Technical Officer
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A choice has been made by the people releasing the book (in this case either Paizo or Wayne Reynolds or both) and as with every other choice any publisher makes, this choice removes a part of the potential customer base.
To be clear, the "choice" not to release it in PDF form is neither ours nor Wayne's; the book contains several important images for which neither Wayne nor Paizo own the rights to distribute digitally. (I suppose you could say we made the choice by including those images... but not including them would diminish the book as an overview of Wayne's career.)
This has become a joke. August 2013. I pre-ordered it on Amazon 1 year ago and now 8 more months.Well, given that you pre-ordered from Amazon, prompt shipping obviously wasn't much of a concern... :)
A week extra is not much when a product is almost 2 years late.
Another copy sold :)
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A week extra is not much when a product is almost 2 years late.This has become a joke. August 2013. I pre-ordered it on Amazon 1 year ago and now 8 more months.Well, given that you pre-ordered from Amazon, prompt shipping obviously wasn't much of a concern... :)
Well, it was stated from the get go that this is a "lowest priority product" and will be pushed back until there's ample time to get it out.
Also, this.
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As for the matter of art books not selling, I find it interesting that The Art of Brom reached $235,319 on Kickstarter recently (for 2,374 backers and a $12,000 goal), and The Complete Elmore Artbook, $299,914 (for 2,097 backers and a $17,500 goal).
Paizo probably wishes for more than 2,000 sales for Visions of WAR, but still. Interesting.
The per-unit cost of a book is tied strongly to print volume—the more copies you print, the cheaper it is to make each copy. It's pretty tough to do 2000 copies of a hardcover at a reasonable price point and still make a profit. (Note that those Kickstarters you cited have a per-backer average around $100 and $150 respectively; yes, most of those backers are getting extra stuff, but there is nevertheless profit built in to their price points.)
Frankly, I suspect Paizo will probably just about break even on this book; its real value for us is as a document of Wayne's career and his relationship with Paizo.
Well, it was stated from the get go that this is a "lowest priority product" and will be pushed back until there's ample time to get it out.In positive news, work has actually been done on this book in the last couple of weeks!
That is good news.
This is absurd. I can understand a delay of few months, but this is getting ridiculous.
One less pre-order for you to worry about.
its real value for us is as a document of Wayne's career and his relationship with Paizo.
This buoys my hope of seeing those interior inks be did for the turn of the century TSR products.
How far back are you going in his career prior to Paizo?
While I understand (and support) including crucial artwork, I am nevertheless unhappy that none of the artwork will be available because a few pieces are not licensed for digital reproduction.
Can't those just be blocked out? I'm guessing it's a pretty small percentage overall ... and talk about a subscriber benefit if the PDF version (even with blackouts) was available only to subscribers!
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Wayne's in town so I'll talk it over with him this week, but I think a lot of this stuff is contractual. I'll see if there's any wiggle room.
The bulk of the art we have on hand begins in the early 2000s, and right now none of the pen and ink stuff is in there. That's something I'd like to see changed. I'm also going to try to get some early work in there for perspective.
We have a meeting with Wayne to work out final details like this next week.
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Wayne Reynolds really defined the way Pathfinder looks, so any book with iconics fighting monsters will be added value on a gaming table. I'm a little disappointed with the impatient people - this has never been a Need item, always a Greed item, and it doesn't matter that it takes longer because other Need items take priority in publishing. You'd better thank Asmodeus they do.
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Wayne Reynolds really defined the way Pathfinder looks, so any book with iconics fighting monsters will be added value on a gaming table.
The Wayne Reynolds art prints are what tipped the scales on my decision to buy the Deluxe Collector's Edition of Rise of the Runelords. When we finish the major bathroom remodel on our house, which involves shifting a few interior walls around, one side effect will be that the space from one of the bedrooms will be divided up between expanding the bathroom (so we can install a 72" tub) and adding space to another "bedroom" which we'll be using as a game room. The prints of at least some of the iconics will almost certainly end up on the walls of the game room.
...Note that I'm not advocating it be subscriber only ...Good... because this product is not part of any subscription!
There's a precedent for items that are not in a subscription giving a PDF benefit to subscribers if they pre-order - that's what I was referring to.
Edit: In fact, even if it were NOT a benefit and I had to buy the PDF separately, I'll still probably get the book. It's just that given how much I spend on materials I can actually use for the game, buying something (even somethign as cool as this) that I have no way to use in game is just too much :)
Really? Pushed back to August? This is getting to be as bad as Margaret Weis Productions and their Dragonlance products. Some of those things took a year or so to come out as it kept getting pushed back.
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Really? Pushed back to August? This is getting to be as bad as Margaret Weis Productions and their Dragonlance products. Some of those things took a year or so to come out as it kept getting pushed back.
That's not actually the best comparison to make if your intent is to make it seem like a bad thing. Yes, Margaret Weis Productions was notorious for delays but as someone who had the honor of being part of the Whitestone Council (during the d20 days a group of gents proofreading the Dragonlance books released by Sovereign Press/Margaret Weis Productions), I can attest to the desire by the design team to make the books as good as they could be, even if it meant delays.
In the case of Visions of WAR, it was said early in the process that this is a low priority product. As I understand it, being a low priority product for Paizo means that if other fires need to be put out (such as delays to more important product lines such as the adventure paths, etc.), Visions of WAR is put on the back burner until those fires have been put out.
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Really? Pushed back to August? This is getting to be as bad as Margaret Weis Productions and their Dragonlance products. Some of those things took a year or so to come out as it kept getting pushed back.That's not actually the best comparison to make if your intent is to make it seem like a bad thing. Yes, Margaret Weis Productions was notorious for delays but as someone who had the honor of being part of the Whitestone Council (during the d20 days a group of gents proofreading the Dragonlance books released by Sovereign Press/Margaret Weis Productions), I can attest to the desire by the design team to make the books as good as they could be, even if it meant delays.
Lol, maybe "getting to be as bad as Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk #3 (for anyone who doesn't know, it was originally solicited for April 19, 2006, finally released on March 4, 2009) " is a better term... since the lower priority comic was pushed back supposedly because the writer was helping write some of the later seasons of Lost.
Really? Pushed back to August? This is getting to be as bad as Margaret Weis Productions and their Dragonlance products. Some of those things took a year or so to come out as it kept getting pushed back.That's not actually the best comparison to make if your intent is to make it seem like a bad thing. Yes, Margaret Weis Productions was notorious for delays but as someone who had the honor of being part of the Whitestone Council (during the d20 days a group of gents proofreading the Dragonlance books released by Sovereign Press/Margaret Weis Productions), I can attest to the desire by the design team to make the books as good as they could be, even if it meant delays.
In the case of Visions of WAR, it was said early in the process that this is a low priority product. As I understand it, being a low priority product for Paizo means that if other fires need to be put out (such as delays to more important product lines such as the adventure paths, etc.), Visions of WAR is put on the back burner until those fires have been put out.
I never said their quality was not good, I have everything they wrote in multiples for DL. However, that still does not excuse some products being as late as they more often than not were.
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However, that still does not excuse some products being as late as they more often than not were.
I'd say that dedication to proper quality rather than timely delivery is a pretty good excuse. To each his own, of course. :)
Anyhoo, this isn't a thread about d20 Dragonlance products so I'll shut up about that now. :)
I'm fine with waiting if comments like this
The bulk of the art we have on hand begins in the early 2000s, and right now none of the pen and ink stuff is in there. That's something I'd like to see changed. I'm also going to try to get some early work in there for perspective.
lead to the inclusion of that earlier work. It won't quite be the same without the character descriptions, but even then, WARs attention to character details (look, equipment, personality) were present in just simple black ink. He did a good job managing negative space.
We have increased the page count from 128 to 256. We have not changed the price. We are also reasonably confident (Erik Mona's words!) about the July release date.
Awesome! I'm sure this will be a fantastic book. And you guys just doubled the page count *without* changing the price?!?! Double awesome!!
Wayne Reynolds really defined the way Pathfinder looks, so any book with iconics fighting monsters will be added value on a gaming table. I'm a little disappointed with the impatient people - this has never been a Need item, always a Greed item, and it doesn't matter that it takes longer because other Need items take priority in publishing. You'd better thank Asmodeus they do.
Nothing sold by Paizo is a NEED item. It does matter to customers of this product who may or may not be picking up everything else Paizo does that everything else Paizo does seems to take priority and bump this back. To suggest that is just absurd. Of course I'm impatient because I don't buy adventure paths or modules, and the setting books lately have kinda run out of steam in terms of being ones that I'm really interested in, at least. This is the most exciting Paizo product coming out this year from my perspective, so naturally I don't want it to be continuously de-prioritized so more modules or adventure path volumes can come out. I understand why that happens, certainly, but asking me to basically sit down and shut up and go ahead and wait who knows how many more months for this to come out isn't very helpful. Naturally, I'm going to say that these continued delays are frustrating... because they are.
That said... doubling the page count? I'm cool with waiting a few more months for THAT! :)
I'm more disappointed in all the huffy, "if it's not PDF, then I won't buy it!" responses. Did anyone ever really think that an art book would be sold as a pdf? Especially when finding WAR art online is getting more and more difficult; he's clearly making an effort to prune what's available, especially in hi-res format, in favor of samplers in low-res formats. I've never heard of such a thing as a coffee table artbook coming out in pdf, and I'd have been shocked to see it greenlit. (Not unhappy, mind you, but shocked. If I could get hi-res images out of a pdf version, I'd do some hi-res printing and framing and decorate my house with WAR pieces. But just because I'd like something to happen doesn't mean that I'm clueless or brattily entitled about it--I would never have expected that to happen.)
Besides, if it's Pathfinder specific artwork you're looking for, just extract them from your Pathfinder pdfs. That's what I do when I want a WAR picture to show to my players.
And updated with final cover image!
I cancelled my pre-order with Amazon. I am tired of the poor shipping they use now. They just throw it in a bag. Seriously. I will be ordering it from Paizo. Great packing job with every order.