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I noticed some other folks putting in a call for (at the least) a gargantuan green dragon. I'd like to throw my own support behind that idea! Also, maybe a gargantuan red. And how about a gargantuan ravener?
I would most certainly buy one of each of those.
And can we hope to eventually see some of the Spawn of Rovagug?
Quit pussy-footing around!
We want a Tarresque and we want it now!
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Further, this is not significantly different than the way a lot of capsule/boxed toys are sold as impulse/collector items in Japan and Europe. Kubricks, for example, are packed almost exclusively in single-toy blind boxes, as are several brands from highly successful brands like KidRobot.That is ACTUALLY a valid point, and the only valid one produced thus far in support of this marketing method, though Japan is a silly place. I know Kubricks are sold to Japanophiles and geeks as a Japanophile thing, but I don't really see them in stores anywhere.
LEGO is currently selling blind-packed, randomized Mini-Figures in the US. I've seen them in a few stores near me. And they're currently on their 6th series or something like that, so they must be doing well.
For a lot of people, just the collectible aspect is going to be a draw. I know at least one person (my brother) who was collecting the DDM lines. As far as I know, he seldom actually used many of them for tabletop roleplaying, and NEVER played the miniatures game. He collected them just to collect them. And collected enough of them to have a bunch left over to give to me.
The excitement of the chase is probably a big part of it. That, and a mildly-obsessive and completist personality. (I know that about him because I share it. Heck, I'm thinking about getting some of this line for similar reasons. And I hardly ever use physical minis anymore anyway. 8^)
I imagine the business model will be altered within a year.
One way to better imagine this scenario is to carefully read the news release, which explicitly states that the larger Rise of the Runelords set will be released in multi-figure boosters within seven months of the Heroes & Monsters set.
So I'd say that your prediction is sound.
I can also make such "predictions"
Prediction 1: There will be a big black dragon as a sort of incentive figure for case buyers.
Prediction 2: Paizo is thinking about minis subscriptions
Prediction 3: There will be a Runelords hardcover
Prediction 4: In addition to the H&M set, there will be a set of 4 non-random minis that correspond to the 4 characters from the beginners box!
This oracle business isn't so hard. Now, if only I could convince some young lady to dance almost-naked for me because that would improve my clairsentience further, like in that film I recently saw.....
It seems like everytime a ICV2 report comes out Paizo starts to shift closer and closer to the "Screw the customers, we're getting money!" mentality that WoTC has.
Get your eyes checked out man, because you're seeing things that aren't there.
You can buy into the nonsense other people spew about Paizo lying to us all the time, but that doesn't fit at all with our experiences.
When Paizo tells me that non-random wouldn't have worked, I'm inclined to take that at face value. Especially since I see how it doesn't really work for Reaper, and it isn't the first time someone said this.
Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures
But we do. We totally do.
I'm not buying them randomized.
Then stop hamleting around here and buy them non-randomised.
Yes. No Tinys as of yet, but so far we have minis planned for all of the other categories (and maybe even some bigger stuff...)
I sure would like a gargantuan green dragon...
(Not that I would be upset with other gargantuan dragons, but I'd REAAAAALLY like a gargantuan green!)
And other gargantuan and colossal critters. Nightwave, anyone? Flying laser sharks for the win! And we finally need the Tarrasque. The Spawn are great candidates in general.
I won't even mention rune giants because they're just obvious.
Some of the fiendish critters would also look nice in plastic. Xacarba anyone?
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And can we hope to eventually see some of the Spawn of Rovagug?
I've wanted a Tarrasque model since like 1985.
Not a tiny one either, I want a big one ... the kind of big that when I drop it on the table my players eyes buldge out of their heads and they ask why I didn't just send a giant-invisible-hybrid-tiger-bear-ninja-with-laser-eyes after then because they are just that screwed.
I'd pay like $100 for a pre-painted mini like that.
Not telling is not the same as not lying, but this statement makes my brain want to bleed. The fact that no one else here blanched at this shows the strength of your marketing. Every company lies to their customer base. Some more than others, some with malice and some without, but no company is 100% honest OR 100% transparent with their customer base.
I've been thinking about this, and I understand that plenty of people have already replied, so forgive me adding to the dogpile.
I really think if they could accomodate another sales model that gives you what you (and some other folks) want, they really would. I don't take away the impression that their decision makes the miniatures MORE profitable, rather I think it's what makes it VIABLE.
I'm a little biased, but I just have faith in the basic goodwill of the company
Making some money, but giving a fair value for that money, are not mutually exclusive goals.
The fact that if I pre-order a case I have a reall darn good chance of getting all the miniatures, is a great selling point to me. I don't recall the same certanity in other product lines (but I might be unaware).
I'm going to think a second and a third time before I buy anything from you again.
You can't even imagine how not we care. It's not just because you're a dwarf, but also because if they didn't make them random, they couldn't make them at all.
So we, the customers, would rather you're angry and don't buy because you won't buy anyway, and this way, at least we get something we want.
If this is such an awesome business model, why don't you use it for your rulebooks?
So first you're telling us you're taking your things and go home, and now you're openly trolling? This is fantastic. I can parade this post out to show everyone that exterminating dwarves is the only sensible choice!
And if it's such an awesome business model, how is it that companies selling metal miniatures have managed to stay in business for decades without resorting to it?
And now you brag with your utter ignorance of, well, everything this thread is about. I'm not even pointing out how this question makes no sense at all for so many reasons. Instead, go and read this thread and the announcement that accompanies it. Repeat that until you answer your own question.
But I must say I'm growing suspicious. Are you actually one of the other posters with a second account who wants to bait me with this open dwarfness so when I use this as proof that only a dead dwarf is a good dwarf, you bust out with "Haha, it was all a hoax and you fell for it! Dwarfs rule!"
If so, well played!
LEGO is currently selling blind-packed, randomized Mini-Figures in the US. I've seen them in a few stores near me. And they're currently on their 6th series or something like that, so they must be doing well.Further, this is not significantly different than the way a lot of capsule/boxed toys are sold as impulse/collector items in Japan and Europe. Kubricks, for example, are packed almost exclusively in single-toy blind boxes, as are several brands from highly successful brands like KidRobot.That is ACTUALLY a valid point, and the only valid one produced thus far in support of this marketing method, though Japan is a silly place. I know Kubricks are sold to Japanophiles and geeks as a Japanophile thing, but I don't really see them in stores anywhere.
They also sell for $1 to $2.
Lots of potential Red Lantern recruits here...
Two or three more pages and Alaznist wakes up, empowered to the point of apotheosis. And then Avistan is in deep manure.
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I mean, c'mon how many great products did they produce on a regular basis, and than you complain that loud about one single product?! That's just not fair (but I think that happens if you start to impress people; they expect you to keep that quality forever).
I call it the Curse of Awesomeness.
I'm okay with the occasional blunder - they can't all be winners. There are even a few things Paizo is consistently bad at. Like weapons and armour. Easy enough to remedy, and the things they're awesome in are far more numerous. And these things include their attitude.
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Do you have a list of the different minis and their size (small, medium, large) ?
Is the small 25mm format ?
Can we order the big black dragon only if we preorder the case ?
There are no lists yet, and no info about rarity (only that there are different rarities)
I'm not too knowledgeable about the formats, but the bases are 25mm/1" so they fit onto the battlemat. I don't know if that's 25 or 28, but it's definitely not something like 1 1/2". The figures are made for Pathfinder RPG first and foremost, and Pathfinder assumes you use the standard 1" battlemats if you do use mats.
And while we don't know too much about the black, it is apparently going to be huge (as in huge size category, i.e. 3" base), and they said that those who buy a case can get one, and there may be other ways to get that thing. We don't know how limited those will be, so it's possible that those who preorder first will have a better shot at the figure. But, as I said, we have no more info about it, they might do lots and lots of the thing and have them remain available for a long time, at which time I guess the only requirement will be that you also buy a case.
The dragons will also be made available to retailers buying cases, and I guess it's up to them what to do with them - sell them, make them prices for tournaments, give them away to case buyers instead of a discount, putting them on display to frighten small dogs, something like that.
Did I understand correctly that Paizo will be cracking cases and selling the miniatures individually?
Yep.
And if so, then coming from Paizo these individual miniature sells would not fully be secondary market. And would this not take some of the randomness out of the equation?
It will totally be secondary market. They buy cases like everybody else buys cases. They won't get any loyalty for the cases they buy themselves (apparently a standard clause in any contract that involves loyalties, called "double dipping rule"), but I guess they might get a really good price from WizKids (even after you figure in the large amount of product they'll get, what with the stuff they want in the shop as boosters/bricks/cases AND the stuff they want to sell as singles).
But long story short: They don't get any special edition cases, they don't get to buy figures directly. They buy cases and then have the warehouse team open them (from what I've read)
Sure, if you buy singles from them, then there is no randomness, but that's no different than buying them on ebay or any other shop or store that will do the same (i.e. open boosters to sell them as singles).
Note that a case won't be totally random, either. They will do their best to have each case contain a full set (and then some, since there are more boosters in a case than there are figures in the set). Since this seeding will be done by humans, there is still the possibility of error (so some cases might not have complete sets), but the intention is to give you a full set with a case. And I guess that even the duplicates will be evenly distributed.
They also sell for $1 to $2.
Well, they're Legos. I'm not quite up to date with legos (the last time I used that was during my studies, and that involved Mindstorm programmable stuff, not the little Lego guys), but back when I played with them a couple of decades ago, the figures were basically all the same. They might get different wigs or helmets, and maybe a cape, and of course the paint jobs are different, but beyond that, they're something Lego is churning out by the killion each day, anyway.
That and the fact that those figures are a lot smaller than PFB figures ensures that they can sell them for significantly less.
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They also sell for $1 to $2.Well, they're Legos. I'm not quite up to date with legos (the last time I used that was during my studies, and that involved Mindstorm programmable stuff, not the little Lego guys), but back when I played with them a couple of decades ago, the figures were basically all the same. They might get different wigs or helmets, and maybe a cape, and of course the paint jobs are different, but beyond that, they're something Lego is churning out by the killion each day, anyway.
That and the fact that those figures are a lot smaller than PFB figures ensures that they can sell them for significantly less.
Actually, where I saw them, they were priced more like $3-$4.
As for size, they're really about the same size as a 1" mini -- maybe even bigger. They're certainly more intricate - moving parts and separate pieces. And the randomized series ones have lots of different accessories and decorations. Possibly simpler paint applications than the PFB minis will have, and they can be made in significantly greater numbers (being made by a big company like LEGO).
So, not quite the same situation as this PPm line, but it is another example of a blind-packed, randomized, impulse-buy-priced product doing well. With no minis game (or, heck, even an RPG) behind it to drive purchases.
So, I'm inclined to think there may be something to this model. At least enough to make me want to sit back and see how it goes.
Edit: Linky
Actually, where I saw them, they were priced more like $3-$4.
I can only find them. Prices varying from $1 to $3 ($3 on the LEGO store so that doesn't count, they overprice everything).
So, not quite the same situation as this PPm line, but it is another example of a blind-packed, randomized, impulse-buy-priced product doing well.
I don't think you understand my point. $1-2 is a LOT higher on the impulse buy scale than $4. And $4 for something with no articulation, accessories, and a limited use.
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The point is I don't remotely see how selling minis that give no benefit for a game other than character representation would encourage people to buy the game they are representing characters for. There is no driving incentive. For D&D/PF players to buy the minis? Some in that they want character representation. For people buying the minis to spontaneously deciding to pick up rule books for a game they (a) aren't playing and (b) can find the rules for free online simply because they bought character minis is ridiculous.
I don't care if they can find the rules online. I know I said they might pick up a Core Rulebook, but they also might pick up a campaign setting or an adventure path. Or they might pick up nothing at all, but play Pathfinder anyway from the SRD. That's all I care about. That helps "grow the game", which is what you questioned, and what I explained.
While I'm certain that it's all been debated in the previous threads, I do feel the need to voice my two cents.
I find the models themselves to be looking really well done when judging by the pictures, and I'd love to own them.
But not at a price of 4 dollars each. For that, I'll happily substitue HeroClix models, or even MageKnight ones, as they at least come in a package of 4 at a price of 7 dollars for a pack.
Sorry Paizo, but much as I love your products and find that your Adventure Paths and hardcovers are usually worth more than the price you ask, this isn't the case here.
While I'm certain that it's all been debated in the previous threads, I do feel the need to voice my two cents.
I find the models themselves to be looking really well done when judging by the pictures, and I'd love to own them.
But not at a price of 4 dollars each. For that, I'll happily substitue HeroClix models, or even MageKnight ones, as they at least come in a package of 4 at a price of 7 dollars for a pack.
Sorry Paizo, but much as I love your products and find that your Adventure Paths and hardcovers are usually worth more than the price you ask, this isn't the case here.
You se this post? This post is something I agree with.
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Actually, where I saw them, they were priced more like $3-$4.I can only find them. Prices varying from $1 to $3 ($3 on the LEGO store so that doesn't count, they overprice everything).
The $3 price I saw was in a supermarket near me, and the online store I linked to wasn't LEGO's, it was an independent online store. So, that appears to be its MSRP.
So, not quite the same situation as this PPm line, but it is another example of a blind-packed, randomized, impulse-buy-priced product doing well.I don't think you understand my point. $1-2 is a LOT higher on the impulse buy scale than $4. And $4 for something with no articulation, accessories, and a limited use.
And you mistunderstood mine. All I was responding to was:
That is ACTUALLY a valid point, and the only valid one produced thus far in support of this marketing method, though Japan is a silly place. I know Kubricks are sold to Japanophiles and geeks as a Japanophile thing, but I don't really see them in stores anywhere.
All I was doing was pointing out an example of blind-packed, randomized product in stores.
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It will totally be secondary market. They buy cases like everybody else buys cases. They won't get any loyalty for the cases they buy themselves (apparently a standard clause in any contract that involves loyalties,...
And if so, then coming from Paizo these individual miniature sells would not fully be secondary market. And would this not take some of the randomness out of the equation?
You get to the point I been trying to make. Random boosters are nothing more than a means to an end. Every miniature will be available for sale in a non-random way.
The whole secondary market question may be a bit of semantics. It is true that Paizo is not the manufacturer. However, it is their brand. So Pathfinder miniatures sold individually from Paizo will have a more linear look than say from Troll and Toad or Auggies. I would hope Paizo has an edge either through their relationship or volume, but they may not. Either way they deserve any edge they get. They already have one big leg up on WotC in that they will at least be direct selling cases, bricks, boosters and individual miniature for their brand directly to their customers and not through distributors.
Later,
Mazra
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While I'm certain that it's all been debated in the previous threads, I do feel the need to voice my two cents.
I find the models themselves to be looking really well done when judging by the pictures, and I'd love to own them.
But not at a price of 4 dollars each. For that, I'll happily substitue HeroClix models, or even MageKnight ones, as they at least come in a package of 4 at a price of 7 dollars for a pack.
Sorry Paizo, but much as I love your products and find that your Adventure Paths and hardcovers are usually worth more than the price you ask, this isn't the case here.
Well said. And I doubt anyone has a problem with that...especially Paizo. Heck, there are many things Paizo makes that are not a good value proposition for me, either. As for the minis, if they look really good in person, and are as durable as DDM, it is conceivable I'd buy a case on a whim -- but odds are I probably won't.
I think the issue is when someone presumes to speak for "everyone" or "most people" (despite the fact that those "most people" seem to be doing just fine speaking for themselves, thank you very much), or presents their opinion as fact -- only to get snippy their "proof" is ignored. It makes much more sense to share your opinion politely, and without claiming to speak for others. For example, I am passing on Jade Regent because I do not like the amount of cross-pollination with Ultimate Combat. I'd prefer the APs remain as close to core-only as possible -- but I suspect I'm part of a tiny minority in that regard.
I have a feeling that my group will buy some of these miniatures when they are in a multi set format.
Six dollars for one plastic medium-sized miniature that's going to be random is not my cup of tea. Especially when it's likely to be deformed (bent swords, turned arms, leaning) or some absolutely disappointing miniature.
For the record, I love my myconid guard, but like if I paid six dollars and pulled him from a booster...
I have no doubt that this will sell adequately to very well. I'm just not a gambling man.
... Also, do the large miniatures just look short to you guys?
Six dollars is the price for 1 large mini. Four dollars will get you 1 medium or 2 smalls. Also, there will be single minis for sale here, and through other resellers. So if ya wanna go that route, you can.
As far as the large minis looking "short", I dunno, I need to see them next to something else I know the size of.
Just check out the Paizo frost giant miniature next to, say, this feller. If the bases are the same size, the Paizo frost giant is like itty bitty. Actually the right size for a frost giant (probably about 2 inches tall) in the scale of the game, but still itty bitty.
Four dollars is still a lot for a medium, but the two dollar difference makes it nicer. If, one day, I can see a list of what minis come in which box, I might be able to override my sensibilities to buy one box.
I will then get a dire rat and a small sized myconid soldier.
Hey guys. I think my questions about cast quality and plastic type got swallowed by the howling storm of internetz fail.
How detailed are the sculpts? I'll likely be repainting them if I get them, so it's important to know how friendly the models will be to this.
Will the be made from a soft flexible plastic like DnD mini's or a harder plastic, like those used in GW's plastics? My preference is for Hard plastic. If it gets broken its easy to fix, while straightening softening plastic minitures weapons, or even whole bodies, can be a nightmare.
Hey guys. I think my questions about cast quality and plastic type got swallowed by the howling storm of internetz fail.
How detailed are the sculpts? I'll likely be repainting them if I get them, so it's important to know how friendly the models will be to this.
Will the be made from a soft flexible plastic like DnD mini's or a harder plastic, like those used in GW's plastics? My preference is for Hard plastic. If it gets broken its easy to fix, while straightening softening plastic minitures weapons, or even whole bodies, can be a nightmare.
Interesting -- you preference is exactly opposite of mine. Since I don't repaint much, I prefer the soft plastics. I've also had some harder plastic figures (from Dwarven Forge) that were just incredibly fragile. I love that I can throw my DDM in a plastic bin and call it good. I get that harder figures hold details better, though.
Have you found a way to easily store the harder plastic figures without having to treat them like painted metal minis? I'm always up for picking up some new tricks. :)
Please just stop it. Nobody wants to buy randomized miniatures and your product isn't enhanced by it one bit. It's just 100% customer screw. I don't care how well-done you think the miniatures are, I'm not buying them randomized.
Lordofkhybr, I get you're upset over this. You and me have got some of the same concerns here.
However, I will be buying these. My wife will probably get some too. I know my GM has piped up in this thread saying he will buy them.
I feel Pathfinder will be enhanced by this product line from Whizkids. We use minis at our weekly game. I bring 3 each week with us for my PC, my wife's and my animal companion. My GM uses his collection of DDM and metal minis he's painted. We have plenty of time when we wanted things we don't have minis for. So we substitute, a lot.
This line has great potential to create new minis for us (and others who want to use them with their game or just to have). We can probably find tons of minis in this set that might fit what we want or even work better as a substitute for when one doesn't exist.
So I don't think that nobody will buy them. I know three that will. And we'll be buying them in random packs and as singles to get exactly what we want. Just like we did with DDM.
I don't feel that this is a 'customer screw'. I think that this is probably the best method to get new, pre-painted, plastic minis to market at a price point that is low enough to cover costs, make a profit and fill the demand with adequate supply.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The point is I don't remotely see how selling minis that give no benefit for a game other than character representation would encourage people to buy the game they are representing characters for. There is no driving incentive. For D&D/PF players to buy the minis? Some in that they want character representation. For people buying the minis to spontaneously deciding to pick up rule books for a game they (a) aren't playing and (b) can find the rules for free online simply because they bought character minis is ridiculous.
Thankfully, reality is not dependent upon your limited ability to understand or perceive it. Again, you'd have to accept the base assumption that your opinions are not universally held, which, I realize, is well outside what your ego can handle.
Hey guys. I think my questions about cast quality and plastic type got swallowed by the howling storm of internetz fail.
How detailed are the sculpts? I'll likely be repainting them if I get them, so it's important to know how friendly the models will be to this.
Will the be made from a soft flexible plastic like DnD mini's or a harder plastic, like those used in GW's plastics? My preference is for Hard plastic. If it gets broken its easy to fix, while straightening softening plastic minitures weapons, or even whole bodies, can be a nightmare.
Interesting -- you preference is exactly opposite of mine. Since I don't repaint much, I prefer the soft plastics. I've also had some harder plastic figures (from Dwarven Forge) that were just incredibly fragile. I love that I can throw my DDM in a plastic bin and call it good. I get that harder figures hold details better, though.
Have you found a way to easily store the harder plastic figures without having to treat them like painted metal minis? I'm always up for picking up some new tricks. :)
If they cost perhaps half what they do, I might feel the same, but it is going to be a similar investment to a metal mini.
I have no problem with that, but I have certain expectations if I am going to pay that much. One is the ability to repaint to my own standards and tastes, and a preference for tougher models.
That said, Paizo, please don't read this negatively. I am very excited about you going in this direction, even if it doesn't meet my needs. I hope you make lots of money and have many fat happy children.
I hope you make lots of money and have many fat happy children.
You heard it here first, folks -- ZN supports childhood obesity. ;-)
Have you found a way to easily store the harder plastic figures without having to treat them like painted metal minis? I'm always up for picking up some new tricks. :)Hey guys. I think my questions about cast quality and plastic type got swallowed by the howling storm of internetz fail.
How detailed are the sculpts? I'll likely be repainting them if I get them, so it's important to know how friendly the models will be to this.
Will the be made from a soft flexible plastic like DnD mini's or a harder plastic, like those used in GW's plastics? My preference is for Hard plastic. If it gets broken its easy to fix, while straightening softening plastic minitures weapons, or even whole bodies, can be a nightmare.
You can put plastics in these with minimal care, and throw them at a wall, and not see any damage at all.
I hope you make lots of money and have many fat happy children.You heard it here first, folks -- ZN supports childhood obesity. ;-)
Ofcause I do...they taste so much better that way.
You can put plastics in these with minimal care, and throw them at a wall, and not see any damage at all.
Alas, that falls into the "treat them like metal minis" category for me, though I realize that for some who can paint much better than I can, that is probably blasphemy. :)
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Just check out the Paizo frost giant miniature next to, say, this feller. If the bases are the same size, the Paizo frost giant is like itty bitty. Actually the right size for a frost giant (probably about 2 inches tall) in the scale of the game, but still itty bitty.
Four dollars is still a lot for a medium, but the two dollar difference makes it nicer. If, one day, I can see a list of what minis come in which box, I might be able to override my sensibilities to buy one box.
I will then get a dire rat and a small sized myconid soldier.
We need to see production images or at least masters. I am uncertain if the digital images we are seeing are correctly in scale from miniature to base. I for one really like the design concept of the Frost Giant. It has the look of a more main line Frost Giant. The Dangerous Delves one looks more like a commander with its fancy ice axe. The Giants of Legend one is great, but if you don't have one, spending $25 to get one is a bit much. The Dangerous Delves one sells in the $5.00 plus shipping range. The Pathfinder one may be more initially when sold individually, but could settle in around the same level after the buzz dies down.
I could see many of the commons, both mediums and smalls selling below the $4.00 level after a little while. Then again if these figurines are as nice as people are saying, then the singles value could go through the roof.
I will hedge my bet and get a case. This should make each miniature average under $3.00. That is ALMOST like an investment. Don't flame me here. I did say almost. I would never recommend that you buy plastic toys to replace your 401K.
Later,
Mazra
...ALMOST like an investment. Don't flame me here. I did say almost. I would never recommend that you buy plastic toys to replace your 401K.
Later,
Mazra
I'd go with "money well spent" lest you make some economist's head explode. :)
Alas, that falls into the "treat them like metal minis" category for me, though I realize that for some who can paint much better than I can, that is probably blasphemy. :)You can put plastics in these with minimal care, and throw them at a wall, and not see any damage at all.
Its the difference between a second a miniature packing speed, and 3-20 seconds a mini packing(depending on delicacy.)
If I wan't essentially disposable mini's, I go paper :D
The excitement of opening a random booster is easily worth half the asking price for me. ;-)
With that in mind...probably not a good idea that you ever gamble. TCG's and TMG's both work on the same action/reward feed back loop that makes gambling and MMo's addictive ;)
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The excitement of opening a random booster is easily worth half the asking price for me. ;-)With that in mind...probably not a good idea that you ever gamble. TCG's and TMG's both work on the same action/reward feed back loop that makes gambling and MMo's addictive ;)
Luckily for me, gambling in my country is rather restrained.
Unluckily for me, Magic: the Gathering wasn't...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The excitement of opening a random booster is easily worth half the asking price for me. ;-)
<nostalgia>We'd always buy one pack of minis at the Guardtower, because Donna loved opening them and seeing what was inside. She loved dragons and was like a kid at Christmas.</nostalgia>
All I was doing was pointing out an example of blind-packed, randomized product in stores.
And my contention has been price point.
The point is I don't remotely see how selling minis that give no benefit for a game other than character representation would encourage people to buy the game they are representing characters for. There is no driving incentive. For D&D/PF players to buy the minis? Some in that they want character representation. For people buying the minis to spontaneously deciding to pick up rule books for a game they (a) aren't playing and (b) can find the rules for free online simply because they bought character minis is ridiculous.Thankfully, reality is not dependent upon your limited ability to understand or perceive it. Again, you'd have to accept the base assumption that your opinions are not universally held, which, I realize, is well outside what your ego can handle.
Because clearly someone else's opinion is worth more than my opinion because you agree with them and are a fanboy of the company. And since I don't accept someone else's random, unexplained opinion as gospel, that must mean I have a huge ego!
Good god, is that you Holmes?!
Oh, who cares. I'm going over to
Games Workshop
or Wyrd
or Privateer Press
or Soda Pop
or Avatars of War
or Crocodile Games
or Dark Ages
or Hell Dorado
or Reaper
or Freebooter
or Cool Minis or Notwhere I can pay too much for a piece of plastic that I can pick out myself.
Good Marketing though. It appears EVERYONE has bought into this Wallet-...burglary.
That said, those of you who won't buy from Paizo anymore because this line makes you mad, Just buy the damn book and play your game. If the business practice makes you mad, however....
I really struggle to see your point. Under the random model you will still be able to buy more expensive singles you can pick out yourself - you'll just have more to choose from.
Logic has no place in nerdrage. I'm always baffled by the sheer stubbornness of gamers to use the secondary market. Its like a fear of cooties or something from buying off ebay, a local store that re-sells, or any reputable online store.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Because clearly someone else's opinion is worth more than my opinion because you agree with them and are a fanboy of the company.
Oh, Carty. I've already refuted your alleged points many times over. As have others. Sure, there's an actual argument underlying what you're saying, but you don't have any data to support it other than your over-inflated sense of self-importance. It's sad really. Reminds me of the old chestnut about being silent and letting everyone believe you are a fool instead of speaking to remove all doubt.
And yet, you keep speaking. Each time with nothing to offer except your unfounded, self-serving beliefs about the operation of the hobby market. A topic about which you have no background, authority, or credibility. Worse, you somehow believe that the volume and constant repetition of your Very Important Opinion renders you a greater expert than the company that has been most successful at marketing PPMs because of some minor distinction in the type of product. I imagine you also believe you are better than Apple at selling tablet computers with blue plastic cases because Apple only has experience selling tablet computers with white or black plastic cases.
You've lost, the home auidence knows you've lost, why not just admit defeat and quit backing yourself into illogical and indefensible corners based on your "understanding" of what price point constitutes an impulse buy for any particular set of consumers. You don't know anything of substance about this topic and, while neither do many of the others posting on this thread, we at least have the humility and self-awareness to acknowledge the limitations of our expertise.
Frankly, given your view on the Pathfinder rpg's lack of merit, and it's astounding success, I'm somewhat surprised that you haven't grown more cautious in spouting off. Maybe constantly being wrong has made you numb to the sensation. Maybe the wonder of the myopic universe you inhabit allows you to ignore reality. Or, maybe you just live to annoy other people, and these forums allow you an outlet for that. I guess everyone needs a hobby.
I suggest Pathfinder. It's a fun game.
I'm always baffled by the sheer stubbornness of gamers to use the secondary market. Its like a fear of cooties or something from buying off ebay, a local store that re-sells, or any reputable online store.
Yup. Despite buying DDM by the case, I still hit the secondary market. You can find some amazing deals, while completely skipping the "random" model some seem to find so objectionable.
OGreOgres
Myself, I'm still waiting for someone to link to a troll or ogre for $6 or less on the internet. Painted or otherwise.Arent they after-market sales of randomised sets? That may be a technical point to you (although note that many of them are over $6), but it doesnt really help your case overall does it?
Are there any prepainted, nonrandom, plastic trolls/ogres available for $6 or less per mini from the manufacturer?
Are you quite done?
Its worth noting that neither are on the right sized base, and the troll is medium sized.
Also, find me a hill giant, white dragon. Or grell. Or anything beyond your most basic low level fodder monsters, because that's all you can afford take the risk on with non-random plastic pre-paints.
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*Nervously looks into thread*
Just wanted to say that I'll be picking up a few of these and I'm looking forward to product line and wanted to say thank you for making this available and I'll be fighting the urge to use left over financial aid money on the figures ;-)
*ducks out*
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I'm always baffled by the sheer stubbornness of gamers to use the secondary market. Its like a fear of cooties or something from buying off ebay, a local store that re-sells, or any reputable online store.Yup. Despite buying DDM by the case, I still hit the secondary market. You can find some amazing deals, while completely skipping the "random" model some seem to find so objectionable.
And bugleyman that brings up another point. I can't think of a single circumstance when I bought a case of DDMs, Mage Knight, Horrorclix etc. that I ended up with a complete set. I always ended up in the secondary market to complete a set. We need to give Paizo a big time thumbs up for at least making a serious attempt at providing their customers a complete set with a case purchase. This is very impressive. It shows how much they think about their customers. I guess it is this underlying fact that makes me sad to see so many trash Paizo/Wizkids with their decision to produce a line of PPMs. For over a year fantasy PPMs was virtually a dead business. I thought we may never see fantasy rpg PPMs again in any kind of quantity. It would be pogs, pogs and more pogs. For all those that enjoy PPMs, we should be absolutely ecstatic about this news. For those that don't, then why are you even here complaining.
Later,
Mazra
Actually, where I saw them, they were priced more like $3-$4.I can only find them. Prices varying from $1 to $3 ($3 on the LEGO store so that doesn't count, they overprice everything).
So, not quite the same situation as this PPm line, but it is another example of a blind-packed, randomized, impulse-buy-priced product doing well.I don't think you understand my point. $1-2 is a LOT higher on the impulse buy scale than $4. And $4 for something with no articulation, accessories, and a limited use.
Lego benefits from a huge economy of scale boost. I'm sure Paizo wishes they had enough mass market appeal to get some theme parks going. Actually I'd like that myself...
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Lego benefits from a huge economy of scale boost. I'm sure Paizo wishes they had enough mass market appeal to get some theme parks going. Actually I'd like that myself...
Actually, where I saw them, they were priced more like $3-$4.I can only find them. Prices varying from $1 to $3 ($3 on the LEGO store so that doesn't count, they overprice everything).
So, not quite the same situation as this PPm line, but it is another example of a blind-packed, randomized, impulse-buy-priced product doing well.I don't think you understand my point. $1-2 is a LOT higher on the impulse buy scale than $4. And $4 for something with no articulation, accessories, and a limited use.
Paizoland?
Its worth noting that neither are on the right sized base, and the troll is medium sized.
I couldn't find size provided
Also, find me a hill giant, white dragon. Or grell. Or anything beyond your most basic low level fodder monsters, because that's all you can afford take the risk on with non-random plastic pre-paints.
Are we moving the goalposts now? "Can't use Reaper LE minis or DDM minis to qualify, now find something that qualifies or else!"