RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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As I understand it, Open Design patrons who are ALSO Paizo Subscribers will in fact get two copies unless they opt out, but we might need clarification from Paizo on that.
That's my understanding as well. *shrug* might give it to my dad. Closest yet to getting my name in print ;-)
That's my understanding as well. *shrug* might give it to my dad. Closest yet to getting my name in print ;-)As I understand it, Open Design patrons who are ALSO Paizo Subscribers will in fact get two copies unless they opt out, but we might need clarification from Paizo on that.
+1
Yeah ... it's cool seeing my name in Sunken Empires :)
No comments on this yet? Is everyone too busy reading the GMG? I think this turned out fantastic, but I'd like to hear what a non-patron thinks now that it's out.
Sounds like a nice little take of Daggony evilness....MUST HAVE!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I've given it a read through, if not a play through.
two things
[spoilers]players are going to hate having their characters frakked with in the mutations. Hopefully the DM will have players that trust him.[/spoiler]
and
We just finished it (I was the player, my husband the GM). It has a great physical setting and atmosphere.
A number of points made me grumpy, though some are probably personal pet peeves:
--The initial impact on the PCs is highly demoralizing; my GM toned it down because he thought (correctly) that the PCs would bail otherwise. If your group is inclined to pessimism, I'd recommend delaying the initial onset of the transformations, and maybe toning down the arcane power of the site itself.
--The physical scale of the excavation is staggering. I kept misunderstanding descriptions because I "knew" they couldn't be true. I don't see how people with shovels could possibly do that, and I found it irritating that my PCs made decisions based on that and were wrong.
--Unless I missed something, the villain's problem has an easy, painless solution using only materials on hand. I don't know why the large excavation was necessary.
I would also recommend telling the players that "Shadow over Innsmouth" is part of their PCs' cultural mythology, because it was darned difficult to pretend I'd never heard that story when the parallels are so close. I guess some players enjoy that kind of firewalling, but I just found it distracting.
We just finished it (I was the player, my husband the GM). It has a great physical setting and atmosphere. Etc...
I love hearing how games went! Of course, feedback for designers is great whether "awesome" or "meh," so I'm glad you seem to have mostly enjoyed it and took the time to give your thoughts.
We knew during design that the transformation would be a risk, and not for every group, and what started as an optional sidebar took on new life as the design progressed. I'd encourage any GMs considering running the adventure to carefully consider how they'll handle it, and cater to their group's receptiveness to that sort of thing.
I feel the pain of your excavation observation: it is a mapping error. The excavation trench was meant to be shown simply dug into the sand in a sunken sea-level cove, and leading into the smallish bedrock cave near the villian's prison. As the work has been going on for months, dozens of villagers would have had plenty of time to carve out something of that nature in the sand. Unfortunately my map turnover must not have conveyed that properly, and it was illustrated in the final version showing a trench carved out of the bedrock of the island, and with no water in it, at that, which it should have had. So, yeah -good catch, and unfortunately something we can't correct after something's published.
Good idea on encouraging "Shadow over Innsmouth" as PC cultural mythology. In fact, part of the unease of the initial encounters should stem from player knowledge of that story, even to the point of PC mistrust of the villagers, because it opens up great roleplaying opportunities when PCs find out these poor villagers aren't evil fishmen cultists out to get them, and are rather sympathetic creatures meant to be saved. We had a lot of fun with that little twist, and I hope folks running the adventure use those touchstones to best effect.
Awesome report, Mary! I've been so buried in new work I haven't reflected on Shore to Sea in a while, so thanks for sharing your experience!
The thing that was a real morale issue for us:
The PCs were quickly able (they have a forensic mindset) to work out the following:
(a) scores of people on the island are under Dominate Monster, a 9th level spell. The PCs can't break these spells even with CL10 Break Enchantment.
(b) this seems able to affect not only blood-tainted islanders, but anyone with fishman traits, including outlanders who are transformed into fishmen and villagers who are only partially transformed. (There is no evidence it can affect normal humans, and the lack of immediate tries against the PCs might be considered reassurance that it can't.)
(c) the PCs are turning inexorably into partial fishmen. This is also a massively high level spell effect which the PCs cannot counter.
(d) the caster doing all this is nowhere to be found; apparently it can cast remotely.
From this the logical conclusion seems to be (e) if you don't get off the island fast you will be Dominated. How fast is "fast"? There's no telling. The PCs might guess that they have until the enemy's next spell refresh, so less than 24 hours.
Magic Circle is the only defense against this at the PCs' level. However, bitter experience suggests that fighting while staying within 10' of the Magic Circle caster drops the effective party level by about 2. It's almost impossible to flank; it's hard to protect the casters; it's hard to deal with enemy casters; you are perfectly grouped to be nuked by Fireball. (This is worse for us because the party is size 7, but even at 4-5 it is hard.)
It just seemed like the logical response to a Dominate Monster caster with island-wide range and an unassailable position is to flee.
I know that some of these conclusions turn out to be wrong. I just want to mention what it looks like from the player point of view initially. If my GM had done this, we would have had to choose between forcing PC actions or having the adventure end at scene 2. (Perhaps the PCs, finding their fishness incurable, would have come back later; but my understanding is that this misses the adventure anyway.)
I know you can't change the product, but for GMs running it I might suggest cutting Estevan's Domination, since that's the main evidence of the excessive range. If the aboleth has to bring people down to it in order to Dominate them, that's manageable. If it can Dominate anyone on the island, that is not.
(We really should have *Spoilered* all of this info with a spoiler box, so I'll start now)
Wow! Mary -I am incredibly impressed with your group's thorough breakdown of their characters' condition. You weren't kidding when you said you guys didn't like the mutations much at all! Most impressive to me is the recognition of the trigger and field of influence with Estevan on the trip there. That's some killer, killer analysis, even if it didn't all quite end up being correct, that's still damn clever and awfully close. The steps you guys took to avoid the effects were neat, but I wish you'd not had to go through the trouble. Ultimately, the aboleth dominated the villagers all in person, as they eventually reveal, and the observatory only amplifies the duration and save of the initial effect. But it was never even meant to be quite so specific.
My real response? You should sign up for Open Design projects and be a playtest group! Really! We did thorough, thorough playtests, and while there was a ton of discussion about a lot of these aspects that resulted in them being as they are, this sort of feedback is invaluable in the design phase. Killer!
Anyone know what level the PC's should be if they finish this module. I wish this was something reflected in all the module's product information.
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Anyone know what level the PC's should be if they finish this module.
Just barely shy of 7th if you use the Medium advancement track. Adding some ad hoc roleplaying XP will push them over the top.
I wish this was something reflected in all the module's product information.
Because there are three different official speeds in Pathfinder (as opposed to one track in 3.5), it would be too cumbersome to list the final level for all three tracks. Besides, there's a growing trend to ignore XP tracks all together and do advancement by fiat.
Thanks for the info Erik!
Should the compass on the Blackcove map on page 6 be turned upside down? Seems like from the map, Blackcove faces the south to the Hellmouth Gulf.
Should the compass on the Blackcove map on page 6 be turned upside down? Seems like from the map, Blackcove faces the south to the Hellmouth Gulf.
Hey Dolgo!
The compass can really work however you like, given all the cutback coves and craggy jetties of the Hellmouth that carve into the continenet every which way. As represented, it could just as easily be a deeply inset, backwater cove oriented the way depicted, though if I could snap my fingers and have it done, I'd point the compass rose so that current North is West. It would make a little more sense that way.
Whatever works'll work! =-)
And thanks for covering my butt on the quick reply on level advancement yesterday, Erik!
Should the compass on the Blackcove map on page 6 be turned upside down? Seems like from the map, Blackcove faces the south to the Hellmouth Gulf.Hey Dolgo!
The compass can really work however you like, given all the cutback coves and craggy jetties of the Hellmouth that carve into the continenet every which way. As represented, it could just as easily be a deeply inset, backwater cove oriented the way depicted, though if I could snap my fingers and have it done, I'd point the compass rose so that current North is West. It would make a little more sense that way.
Whatever works'll work! =-)
And thanks for covering my butt on the quick reply on level advancement yesterday, Erik!
Thanks Brandon, I will run it as you stated as a cutback cove. I listened to your insight on PF Chronicles podcast, good info into the module, its a huge help!
Thanks, Dolgo! I tell 'ya -those boys leave no stone unturned. Hahaha.
Have a blast with From Shore to Sea!
Thanks, Dolgo! I tell 'ya -those boys leave no stone unturned. Hahaha.
Have a blast with From Shore to Sea!
Thanks, I know it will be a well received adventure after reading it.
I was wondering, what to you do to show your players the map of Blackcove or of any other map that's in a module? Do you roughly draw it? Photocopy them but cover up important sites names? Other? I've always had a roadblock about how to display the maps in modules but not give away everything they show fearing my PC's would say "lets go straight to A8 that looks interesting."
I was wondering, what to you do to show your players the map of Blackcove or of any other map that's in a module? Do you roughly draw it? Photocopy them but cover up important sites names? Other? I've always had a roadblock about how to display the maps in modules but not give away everything they show fearing my PC's would say "lets go straight to A8 that looks interesting."
Typically, I just rough-sketch it out on a piece of paper or battlemat for something like the village. Just a really simple line-in-the-sand type of thing, that way numbers and labels don't give anything away.
If you have any photoshop skils at all, you can copy the map over and do some concealment of the labels and key with some clever copy/paste, then print that out and hand off to players. Otherwise, you might do a quickie trace job before the game with some of the outstanding buildings hightlighted, and in this way may emphasize places you really want to bring to the PCs' attention for exploration.
When it comes to the Observatory, you don't have anything to worry about, so you should be able to just show it, but with the final lair you do have that
to contend with, so a quick trace, or, even better, a running dialogue of events as you draw things out on the battlemap, is the best way to go.
Thanks again Brandon, good info!
Brandon, wanted to say our first session went awesome and have one question. I don't fully understand the aquarium room. It seems like such an awesome visual to describe so I want to make sure I got it down pat. How deep did you envision the pool? Does the constant flowing water come down strong in front of the bubble back into the pool? How high is the bubble to the pool? How does melee reach the octopus? Sorry if thats alot but any info would be great!
Brandon, wanted to say our first session went awesome and have one question. I don't fully understand the aquarium room. It seems like such an awesome visual to describe so I want to make sure I got it down pat. How deep did you envision the pool? Does the constant flowing water come down strong in front of the bubble back into the pool? How high is the bubble to the pool? How does melee reach the octopus? Sorry if thats alot but any info would be great!
Good morning! Great to hear the first session went well!
I just pulled out the adventure to have a look, and I know this room, without a map, can be a little confusing, and it is slightly different than my original turnover. So, let's just break down the elements:
1.The building is a 60-ft. diameter circular room.
2. There is a central pool, 30-ft. in diameter and 5-ft. deep, set into the floor, with no raised lip or rim.
3. Imagine that a thin sheet of water overflows the central pool and spreads out in every direction across the floor -maybe 1/16-inch deep, but not strong enough to trip anyone or anything. You should make it at least slippery there, and each step splashes a fine mist of water on PCs. Once this sheet of water reaches the wall, it then flows up the walls, across the ceiling, then back down into the central pool in another thin sheet around the pool's diameter, creating a sort of a thin, hollow column of water around the pool's outer edge, approximately 25-ft. in diameter. This same effect creates a "door" of water at the entrance, which means PCs have to walk through the upward-flowing water in order to enter the room.
4. The "bubble" is a 20-ft. diameter floating sphere of water about 5-ft. above the pool (which is at floor level, so the sphere floats 5-ft. high) and within the thin boundary of the central water column. This is where the
5. Originally, there was no large central bubble, and the room was instead filled with about a dozen much smaller spheres floating all around, with 6 of them containing a regular CR 1 octopus. The central pool and the flowing water sheet acted as a mechanism to replenish the oxygen in the spheres. These spheres reacted to the will of the creatures within, and would slowly float toward the characters with a movement of 10-ft per round, trying to subtly surround a character and attack, because they've been left in there by the skum and are hungry. There was also an assassin vine in the back of the room, sprouting out of a skum skeleton, but this simpler version is the more effective and challenging encounter.
Does that help at all, or have I only made it more complicated? Haha. Hope it goes off without a hitch and you guys keep having a ball with it.
Perfect description, I fully get it now. Thanks a bunch for the help! Its so great to have the original insight into the module.
My pleasure! Questions like this mean that people are playing and [hopefully] enjoying the adventure, so the confirmation that this thing is out in the world and coming to life under the care of responsible GMs makes all the work worthwhile! Thanks!
I can't wait to fold this mod into my kingmaker AP on candlemere island. I'm changing the
With some other minor changes as well.
Brandon first off great mod ! Second thanks for the feedback about the Aquarium room.
I actually had a player say man we are getting out actioned by a boss. Who knew a giant octopus was so awesome
I had not the heart to unleash rust monsters at the party.
This adventure is awesome.
This is the second thing I've ever GMed for. The first being Carrion Hill. I'm going to try to tie those together, emphasizing the Lovecrafting elements of both.
My party has finally saved the villagers (although before going to the excavation. I just had
But since this is my 2nd module (and 1st campaign GMing), I do think I'm a bit over my head. There are a lot of subtle bits, and there isn't much guidance for how to explore the island.
Plus, I'm really not sure how to explain the roads-but-actually-cliffs bit. How does that work? Are they sheer? Are they gradual? They look sheer in the map, hence my confusion.
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except that
Also, if the party doesn't have a wizard, its nearly impossible to complete the mod as written. a 6th level wizard with all the bonuses provided (amulet, lectures) is only going to have maybe a 25% chance of getting a DC 40 spellcraft needed to shut down the orrey amplifying the aboleth's powers. No other class is likely to have a spellcraft high enough, and since the story requires 4 ranks to assist the check (which can only be attempted once per day) you'll really never get that either.
Given how close the excavation is to becoming complete, anything more than one attempt would likely mean the aboleth gets away. fighting the aboleth with the amplifier on would be suicide, given that it can dominate 60+ villagers without having line of effect.
Its a great story, and the island environment is very cool, but the mechanics need some editing.
THANK YOU for the exceptional praise, Mr. Pett! I can think of no higher endorsement than from the master of Lovecraftian horror himself!
Now, shutting down the Orrery, while daunting, is far from "nearly impossible" for a 6th level party, Chernobyl.
If the PCs take all the steps set out in the adventure, they can end up with as much as +20 bonus to their Spellcraft check at the end of the first day's attempt (+5 for deciphering the instructions, +10 for studying it with an identify spell, and +5 with a recovered armillary amulet). As the adventure outlines, this bonus increases by +2 for every daily attempt, and another +2 for every PC with 4 or more ranks that can Aid Another, but you hardly need them.
Because if they take those steps, the skillcheck basically becomes a DC 20, which isn't going to be incredibly difficult for a 6th level spellcaster even without max ranks or stats.
Given that parties are likely to have at least one spellcaster with several ranks in Spellcraft (all core spellcasting classes get the skill as a class skill, and if we assume, say, a 12-16 INT, they've got a total +10 or +12 mod to their skill check if maxed out), then you've got the party spellcaster making the check on an 8-10 or better on the first day if they've taken the appropriate steps, without others aiding them, taking extra days, or even having Skill Focus (Spellcraft). Heck even if they aren't totally maxed out, chances are they can still make it on, say, a 12 or better. If they ARE maxed out, and have skill focus, you can get into the territory of skipping a hook or two and still succeeding!
So, far from impossible, and actually quite likely if the adventure hooks are taken. I'm pretty sure a dozen playtests, hundreds of contributing patrons picking over the adventure with a fine-toothed comb, and the crack editors at Paizo would have let a such an obviously harrowing DC like that through without the intense scrutiny it received. Concealment snafu with octopus ink? Maybe. But not that orerry DC. Dozens of GMs from all over the country have reported great responses to the adventure with their groups, and none have said the whole thing fell apart because the DCs were too high or the octopus was blind. I'm sure others will survive. =-)
I do have some questions about the area
A PC was killed by the Chuul ambush. Luckily he had rolled a 20 on the Knucklebone of Fickle Fortune, so he'll be coming back.
At this point, the party decided to reattach the head of the PC, and drag the body out.
But, they've set off all sorts of alarms, and the enemies now know that something attempted to break into their sanctuary (and possibly who it was and how they fight. I'll be rereading the module for anything like that), presumably to kill them.
So they're beefing up defense. What sort of creatures and tactics can I do to play this up? I'm thinking more eels or such in the pool of water at the bottom of the 90' drop into the lower levels. With wind wall in place at the bottom, to deflect arrows.
I do have some questions about the area ** spoiler omitted **
Spoilers as well:
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All I'm saying is, there should have been an option to figure it out without a skill check requirement. you need to plan for groups that may not have that ability.
** spoiler omitted **
I dunno. If a group doesn't have anyone who excels at understanding the nuances of arcane energy, I'd hope that they'd have a hell of a time understanding the nuances of arcane energy.
I think I'm going to have the skum wheel some cannons to the shorelines.
Try this.
I found it by doing a Google search for ShoretoSea_WebExtra.pdf
I was wondering if anyone had tried adapting this and combining it with Carrion Hill? I'm running a group through Carrion Crown, and thought that the two of those together could serve as a supplement to or replacement for Wake of the Watcher. I'd love to run all three, obviously, but I worry that going too heavy on the Lovecraftian horror would diminish how unique the terror is intended to be.
Hopefully Brandon is still floating around the boards, but anyone who has run the module can probably answer.
I have a 6th party that is a mix of good characters. I have limited experience with running the Golarion setting, but look forward to it. I am curious for information about Cheliax. We are starting at 6th - haven't played in a long time and don't get to play often, so looking to adventure at a more medium low level - and the players have been trying to build backgrounds. I really want to start right at the beginning of the module on the road along the Hellmouth rather than gming a segue or something similar. However, I told the players we would be starting in Cheliax and after doing research they are having a hard time figuring out why they would be adventuring in LE nation when they are Good. I tried to explain to them that its just the ruling class and that many people on Cheliax might just oppressed neutral and good folk who live under the dominion of the diabolists and the Hell Knights. Thoughts?
Also, I am concerned that since they have this feeling about Cheliax they make not only make Shadow over Innsmouth assumptions about Blackcove, but may also assume they are potential Asmodeus followers. They likely won't find this isn't true unless they investigate the shrine - which apparently Lira discourages them from doing?
Lastly, they all used Charisma as their dump stat! We have a fighter, a rogue/fighter, a rogue/wizard, and a Druid. I am concerned about the diplomacy check in the lighthouse. It seems the more information they have the better the hook to go to the island and the more sympathetic and less suspicious the villagers seem.
TLDR: Good Party. Suspicious of adventuring in Cheliax. Will no doubt be incredibly - and rightly so - suspicious of Blackcove. Terrible Charisma scores - likely to have trouble moving crowd in lighthouse beyond hostile or unfriendly. Help?
Hey there! I most certainly am still floating around the boards! Happy to help.
For starters, I think your answer (and Andree's echoed suggestion) concerning their LE location as Good-aligned adventurers is already spot-on. There are LOTS of nations with terrible rulers across the breadth of Golarion, and what better locale to stir up trouble than one ruled over by devil-summoning despots? In any case, the adventure's starting point assumes adventurers are just passing through, and if they already know what they've admitted about Cheliax, then taking the coastal road where the adventure starts is the lowest-profile route they've got. They could try ship, but they'd have to open themselves up to inspection by authorities, you know?
And you're right about the make-up of most citizens of Cheliax. Just because the rulers are influenced by diabolical forces doesn't mean your typical farmer and fishermen cares two wits about all that stuff. Drive this point hope to inspire more sympathy for the commoners in the region--they'll need all you can solicit from your players. I'll spoiler the rest:
They can make the Shadows over Innsmouth assumptions, but keep in mind that they'll have it a bit backward. The villagers, unlike those in Lovecraft's original, aren't quite privy to the real deal of what's going on with their heritage. They are totally getting snookered by the offshore ulat-kini through the hypnotic power of the wedding rock, and few are those who realize what is really going on.
The shrine is an important clue to this and, again, another chance to illicit sympathy for the poor villagers even if players charge up the stairs breaking doors down to figure out what they suspect. Let them. They'll discover a desecrated shrine to Asmodeus re-consecrated to an amalgamated pantheon of various sea gods, something which the villagers don't want exposed because they worry about the consequences they would face by authorities if discovered they're blaspheming the state-mandated religion.
Even a Charisma-dump party should do OK with the villagers. Even low rolls should give them enough information to proceed, and if they roleplay it well, screw what the numbers tell you. If they save some villagers in the lighthouse attack, in particular, then the brute force they paid for by dumping Charisma should pay off in information, which is by design. If the going gets rough, start the attack, let them save some lives, and re-kickstart negotiations!
Just go with the flow, and don't worry to much about sticking strictly to it. I promise not to show up at your game and tease you for doing it wrong. =-)
Thanks Brandon and Andree! Super helpful.
One final thing. I'll be running the first part of the module this week - hopefully we end by landing on the island. For the session after that I would love to get my hands on the "10 interesting ruins" sidebar. It seems to have been taken down/all of the links are bad. Any chance it's still out there somewhere?
Hello Long-Staff, I situated the module near Korvosa, you could put it anywhere on the coast of Varissia, as the Thassilonians are an offshoot of the Azlanti.
So we are about to climb to the final tier of the island - just cleared the Showering Tower and the Archives. The players are really loving it - they are super freaked out by the taints and the wedding rock.
My only question is... what to run next? My plan was to go with "Realm of the Fellnight Queen" and set it in either Ravounel Forest or Barrowood. What are everyone's thoughts? Is there something else we should run through instead of Fellnight?
Hello Long Staff.
I would expand the module...
There is so much to do... Some of the BBEGs relatives might want revenge.
Some of the villagers may want to settle down and rebuild, and there is so much around for the Adventurers to explore below the surface.
Then there is the world hopping potential of the observatory.