finding the right subject title is hard but here it goes. feats for martial PC's...

feats for martial PC's that roll a lot of 1-3s for damage. I enjoy the game a lot. but when it comes to combat I feel a lot of dissatisfaction and that's because i tend to roll low. I could always play a casting class because at what ever level they can start casting spells with the metamagic feat "Maximize Spell". as much as i would like to play one at later levels there is no way my spell caster would live long enough to get to that level. so i was wondering since spell casters can maximize their damage is there a way for a martial class to boost/maximize his or her damage so a player who sucks at rolling can enjoy the rigors of combat?

Well its not maximized but measured response certainly removes the possibility of botching damage rolls (or spiking for that matter).

There's a few other options floating around that actually do maximimize but those tend to be either niche (like Furious Finish) or class specific (such as a Kensai's Perfect Strike)

Divine Fighting Technique, scroll down to "Way of the Perfected Fist". You average your dice roll on unarmed strikes, but for a -2 on attack rolls (at least until you gain the greater benefit). Pretty bad feat in Terms of statistics, but if you really roll that low... :D

Furious Finish gives you some decent damage when vital striking with a d12 weapon, but being fatigued afterwards is s##*. Don't know if there are ways to kae it work. I could imagine a vital strike build with only a 1 Level dip into barbarian or Bloodrager, they don't have enough rounds of rage anyways, so they can Furious Finish, attack normally for 2 rounds, Furious Finish again...

Staying with Barbarian (or Primalist Bloodrager which I recommend), you can try to maximize Strength (Abyssal Bloodline, Eldritch Heritage (Orc)) and then take the rage powers knockback, knockdown, savage dirty trick, impelling disarm. They all inflict your Str Mod. as damage, no dice rolling. And you get to use nice maneuvers.

the knockback/bull rush line can be improved to deal 3xStr Mod as damage without rolling dice (Merciless Rush feat and a 1 Level dip into Siegebreaker fighter

The easiest approach is probably to make the die-roll as irrelevant as possible - max out strength, use a two handed weapon, get buffs, and power-attack at all times. Who cares if you rolled a 3 if you're adding 12 to it?

max out strength = 4 dmg
two handed weapon = 1-3 dmg
get buffs = ??? dmg
power-attack = 2 dmg
total = 7-9 dmg

would you be happy with that much damage when the fighter next to you is doing 15-18 dmg or in other cases crazy amounts of damage?

i like the looks of measured response. thanks tarik blackhands

You aren't really defining the situation well. But I am sure there are problems here.

If you maxed out (18) strength and are using a 2 handed weapon. You probably have +6 to damage from strength. Power attack with a 2 handed weapon should be netting you +3 damage at level 1. So you are at weapon damage + 9 before any other buffs.

18 str is a bonus of +4. where are you getting a +2? half of 4 is 2 so with power attack you should get 6 damage.

the question is: since magic users can maximize their damage at 6 or 7. is there a way for a martial character to be able to do the same using feats. i have a tendency to roll really low damage. 1-3s a lot of the time. it's really dragging down the enjoyment of the game. and making my PCs look incompetent and dragging the group down. it maybe bad luck or not knowing how to roll the dice right. but my rolls tend to be really bad. the only good rolls tend to be for stuff that is not useful.

it would also be useful if there was feat along the same lines for healing.

If you use a falchion the 2d4 base should be fine with rolling 1-3 per die.

Though if it really is something in the way you roll dice the a die rolling app is the answer more than feats IMO.

also no matter your perception you don't tend to roll low - that's not a thing that's possible - you'll roll exactly average averaged over many rolls - as luck isn't something you can or can't have it's only your perception that you roll low - I can assure you that you don't

If we had a little more information, we could provide more answers. What levels and classes are we talking about? It's entirely possible that you are making an unfair comparison. Based on your number ranges, it looks like you're referring to level 1. If the PC next to you is a Barbarian 1, it's very possible to have a +12 damage bonus.

A few things to consider:

*Every class is different, and every class has different builds within. Unless you are comparing a build similar to what your benchmark is, you're being unfair to yourself. Otherwise, the answer to the question, "how do I do what ××× class does?" is simply, "play ××× class."

*In your damage bonus breakdown, the numbers are incorrect. You appear to be missing the 2-hand bonus on strength mod and power attack. You should add another +3 to that. That would give you a total damage bonus of +9; if we're talking level 1; that's pretty good, and should drop most opponents in 1 or 2 hits.

*It's generally accepted that the portion of damage being contributed by the weapon dice is inconsequential compared to the total damage. It's not noticeable in the early levels, but by level 5, it really starts becoming insignificant. Whether you have sneak dice, or favored enemy, or smites, or rage, or judgements and bane, your damage is coming from somewhere else. At low level, you notice if your damage range is 4-11, but when your damage range is 51-72, you really stop caring.

* In the meantime, if you are able to roll more small dice instead of 1 large die, that should help out your damage curve. It's less probable to roll 12 on 2d6 than on a d12, but it's also impossible to roll 1 on the 2d6. Whenever rolling more dice, it's going to yield a more average result over time. I like looking at players making the choice between greatsword or greataxe. It really shows who the gamblers are. Just remember: if you're going to gamble, you gotta be ready to accept that bust now and again.

*For what it's worth, I can't make an attack roll to save my life, and I actually do end up playing a lot of casters so I don't have to touch my d20 in combat. I don't need to do damage if I just put people to sleep & stab them in the eye.

I never worry about what I roll on dice for damage. I I work out my damage based minimum rolls and see if that is acceptable.

Like I CRB barbarian with 18 str and Great Sword Raging Str +9, power attack +3 So I do 14 damage minimum per hit at 1st level. That one shots pretty much anything I'll encounter, I'm more likely to not power attack as missing is my greatest problem and 11 minimum is still pretty good.

18 str is a bonus of +4. where are you getting a +2? half of 4 is 2 so with power attack you should get 6 damage.

the question is: since magic users can maximize their damage at 6 or 7. is there a way for a martial character to be able to do the same using feats. i have a tendency to roll really low damage. 1-3s a lot of the time. it's really dragging down the enjoyment of the game. and making my PCs look incompetent and dragging the group down. it maybe bad luck or not knowing how to roll the dice right. but my rolls tend to be really bad. the only good rolls tend to be for stuff that is not useful.

it would also be useful if there was feat along the same lines for healing.

2-handed weapon: ?d?

also no matter your perception you don't tend to roll low - that's not a thing that's possible - you'll roll exactly average averaged over many rolls - as luck isn't something you can or can't have it's only your perception that you roll low - I can assure you that you don't

Actually, if he consistently uses the same dice, and those dice aren't balanced properly, this is totally possible.

18 str is a bonus of +4. where are you getting a +2? half of 4 is 2 so with power attack you should get 6 damage.

There's a general rule in the Core Rulebook that says you add x1.5 strength modifier to damage, rather than x1 damage, when wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon in two hands.

It's in the Combat chapter I believe.

Power Attack has similar wording. You do more damage with a two-handed weapon (or a one-handed weapon wielded in both hands).

May I suggest a different kind of solution?

Play a martial that uses small dice :)

Malachi is a tengu using natural weapons. Two claws and a bite (peck) all using 1d3. Later he will add up to 4 secondary natural weapons, tentacles that do 1d4.

Malachi does plenty of combat damage regardless of the base damage die because of rage and sneak attack. This comes from Bloodrager (and Extra Rage feat) and Snakebite Striker Brawler.

As others have pointed out, eventually static modifiers are more relevant than the die size.

I played a halfing fighter once. I was doing something like 1d1 + 20 per hit at higher levels. In pathfinder, as you level, the base weapon damage quickly becomes a small factor into your damage.

lv1 a fighter is doing dX+9
lv4 it's up to dX +15 using a magic weapon and weapon spec.
lv5 it's up to dX +17 with WT and a str belt.
lv8 it's up to dX +21 with +2 weapon
lv12 it's up to dX + 30 with +3 weapon, +4 str belt, and greater weapon spec.

to me the difference between 32 and 40 per hit at lv12 isn't that big of a deal. And the damage bonus can get even higher, this is a pretty basic build.

also no matter your perception you don't tend to roll low - that's not a thing that's possible - you'll roll exactly average averaged over many rolls - as luck isn't something you can or can't have it's only your perception that you roll low - I can assure you that you don't

so in 150 rolls on a d20 getting above a 10 twenty times and getting a nat 20 three times is average? on a d4 rolled 4 times I might get a 3 once. anything above a 15 I am ecstatic.

* In the meantime, if you are able to roll more small dice instead of 1 large die, that should help out your damage curve. It's less probable to roll 12 on 2d6 than on a d12, but it's also impossible to roll 1 on the 2d6. Whenever rolling more dice, it's going to yield a more average result over time. I like looking at players making the choice between greatsword or greataxe. It really shows who the gamblers are. Just remember: if you're going to gamble, you gotta be ready to accept that bust now and again.

I agree with you there tempus rolling more dice is better. if I can roll two or more dice I do way better I might get a 1 or 2 on one of the dice but the other tends to be of the higher side of damage. but that's only if I am rolling more then one dice at a time. most weapons only have one die for their damage. if i could find a way to roll two d20s that would be great.

dharkus wrote:

also no matter your perception you don't tend to roll low - that's not a thing that's possible - you'll roll exactly average averaged over many rolls - as luck isn't something you can or can't have it's only your perception that you roll low - I can assure you that you don't

Actually, if he consistently uses the same dice, and those dice aren't balanced properly, this is totally possible.

i don't know how to check the balance of my dice other then the D20 its all Greek to me.

dharkus wrote:

also no matter your perception you don't tend to roll low - that's not a thing that's possible - you'll roll exactly average averaged over many rolls - as luck isn't something you can or can't have it's only your perception that you roll low - I can assure you that you don't

so in 150 rolls on a d20 getting above a 10 twenty times and getting a nat 20 three times is average? on a d4 rolled 4 times I might get a 3 once. anything above a 15 I am ecstatic.

Over the next few games, record exactly what the dice are, what the rolls are, and the number of rolls. A spreadsheet with a die range and die roll column will suffice. If something forces you to roll twice or roll multiple dice, record each roll separately. People on the boards here can do mathemagical things that will tell you if you're consistently rolling weirdly low.

dharkus wrote:

also no matter your perception you don't tend to roll low - that's not a thing that's possible - you'll roll exactly average averaged over many rolls - as luck isn't something you can or can't have it's only your perception that you roll low - I can assure you that you don't

so in 150 rolls on a d20 getting above a 10 twenty times and getting a nat 20 three times is average? on a d4 rolled 4 times I might get a 3 once. anything above a 15 I am ecstatic.

An online dice roller or a dice roller app is the simple answer. You might be doing something odd when rolling the dice (this is real), or the dice might be off balance - there's no good way to check that from here - but luck when rolling dice is not a thing. If you take the physical dice out of the equation you should fix either possibility.

If we had a little more information, we could provide more answers. What levels and classes are we talking about? It's entirely possible that you are making an unfair comparison. Based on your number ranges, it looks like you're referring to level 1. If the PC next to you is a Barbarian 1, it's very possible to have a +12 damage bonus.

I am just looking into it for more information. just one of those questions you ask yourself when you come across the maximize metamagic feat. Is there a way to do this with that kind of class sorta thing. then you put it in your back pocket for later.

I was forgetting to add the bonus of half your str bonus to two handed weapon dmg. I have yet to play a Pc that used a two handed weapon.

An online dice roller or a dice roller app is the simple answer. You might be doing something odd when rolling the dice (this is real), or the dice might be off balance - there's no good way to check that from here - but luck when rolling dice is not a thing. If you take the physical dice out of the equation you should fix either possibility.

you do know that random number generators are not really random right? just complicated to script. that aside i have asked my table to allow me to use one at our table and got a resounding "NO! that's cheating". if i could get away with rolling my dice with out actually having to touch them i would. shaking the dice tray at my table is not allowed as well. btw anyone know how to cheat and get nat twenties that way let my know. >.> because i don't know how its done.

avr wrote:

An online dice roller or a dice roller app is the simple answer. You might be doing something odd when rolling the dice (this is real), or the dice might be off balance - there's no good way to check that from here - but luck when rolling dice is not a thing. If you take the physical dice out of the equation you should fix either possibility.

you do know that random number generators are not really random right? just complicated to script. that aside i have asked my table to allow me to use one at our table and got a resounding "NO! that's cheating". if i could get away with rolling my dice with out actually having to touch them i would. shaking the dice tray at my table is not allowed as well. btw anyone know how to cheat and get nat twenties that way let my know. >.> because i don't know how its done.

Most rollers aren't completely random, but you would need thousands (perhaps millions) of iterations to prove otherwise just by looking at the output. And while it is possible to exploit the fact that it isn't truly random, you need a powerful computer, intense and specific knowledge of how the randomizer works, and a custom program to even begin to break it. You basically need to have a team of Russian hackers with a vested interest in your table outcomes. For basically all table intents and purposes, a digital die-roller is completely random, perhaps more so than actual dice. Although solid die-rolling is a pretty surefire way to prevent Russian hackers from remotely influencing your table.

If you want to know how to roll more 20s (by cheating), look up "loading dice" on Google. If you want to do it without cheating, consider getting really good at tossing the dice to land a certain way, since basically all other methods of getting more 20s out of a single roll involve cheating.

cheating complicates life and ruins friendships. rather not waste time on that kinda skill.

As mentioned above, find ways to have your dice not be as integral to the damage you're doing, getting more out of bonuses like from Str, Power Attack, Favored Enemy, a Paladin's Smite Evil, etc., etc.

A reliable method of getting Sneak Attack can also help, since even a low roll on +5d6 damage every hit is going to add up, especially if playing something that can get lots of attacks in a round, like a Tengu using a claw/claw/bite routine, or a Ninja tossing out a lot of shuriken.

If you tend to roll low on the *attack rolls,* that's more of a problem...

I am just looking into it for more information. just one of those questions you ask yourself when you come across the maximize metamagic feat. Is there a way to do this with that kind of class sorta thing. then you put it in your back pocket for later.

There's no need for martials to get a feat like maximize. They have damage riders for days. Spellcasters don't have any riders to their damage dice. Nothing. Zero. 5d6 is 5d6. They don't get INT to damage, or if they're multiclass they can't add smite bonus, or favored bonus. If a martial rolls 1 on damage dice, they still do a ton of damage because of their riders. If a caster rolls 1s, that's it.

It also eats up significant limited daily resources to pull off metamagic spells; a martial doesn't really have resources to expend lime that. Something like that happens in 4th edition however; all classes get daily super powers.

feats for martial PC's that roll a lot of 1-3s for damage. I enjoy the game a lot. but when it comes to combat I feel a lot of dissatisfaction and that's because i tend to roll low. I could always play a casting class because at what ever level they can start casting spells with the metamagic feat "Maximize Spell". as much as i would like to play one at later levels there is no way my spell caster would live long enough to get to that level. so i was wondering since spell casters can maximize their damage is there a way for a martial class to boost/maximize his or her damage so a player who sucks at rolling can enjoy the rigors of combat?

My suggestion is to not worry about damage dice and pump up your static modifiers. This is especially true if you're Dexterity-based, since you'll probably be doing piddly damage dice anyway.

Damage Dice are for classes that maximize in size increasing effects; things like Enlarge Person, Giant Form, Lead Blades/Strong Jaw, and so on, are really the only means to make Dice-based damage work. And even then, that has a limit, and can theoretically be countered depending on feat choice.

Most characters don't have access to those things. The next best thing that boosts damage is static modifiers. Strength, Weapon Specializations, Weapon Enhancements, Buffs, and so on.