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Dark Archive

Melkiador wrote:

You’ve already shown the numbers but to calculate misfortune you take your odds of hitting and square them. If you hit on 11 or better then 10 out of 20 rolls will normally hit. With misfortune you square those numbers so 100 out of 400 roll sets will hit, which is 25%.

For advantage you do something similar but square the odds for missing instead of for hitting to find the new miss chance. To convert the miss chance to a hit chance, then just subtract the result from 1, or subtract from 100% if you already jumped to making it a percent.

OMG, that's so obvious now you've said it!

Richard

Dark Archive

TheGreatWot wrote:
I know firsthand how effective Misfortune is because the witch in my group shuts down every monster I throw at them with it. :(

I have the same problem - it's a killer. I just wanted to point out just how much of a killer it is.

Most of the encounters my PCs face will be hitting them on about a 15. Misfortune effectively reduces their hit rate by 7 in 10, and criticals disappear completely.

Richard

Dark Archive

I actually didn't do the maths, BTW - I wrote a computer program to enumerate all the possibilities.

Obviously, there is some sort of neat mathematics behind this, because it's so symmetrical, but I haven't figured it out!

Richard

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok, so I've just done a bit more maths (actually, I did it the long way, so I'm not sure how the actual maths works), but I get that:

If your change of hitting is x %, then your effectiveness changes by 100 - x %, better if you roll twice and take the highest, worse if you roll twice and take the lowest.

So, if you need an 11, so you are 50% likely to hit, your effectiveness changes by 50% (of the 50%), so you are now 25% on the poor effect, 75% on the high effect.

If you need a 15, with a 30% chance to hit, your effectiveness changes by 70%, i.e. now 9% on lower and 51% on higher.

It you need a 1, then it makes no difference.

Here's the full table:

need a 20: normal 005.00%, take lower 000.25% (-95%) take higher 009.75% (+95%)
need a 19: normal 010.00%, take lower 001.00% (-90%) take higher 019.00% (+90%)
need a 18: normal 015.00%, take lower 002.25% (-85%) take higher 027.75% (+85%)
need a 17: normal 020.00%, take lower 004.00% (-80%) take higher 036.00% (+80%)
need a 16: normal 025.00%, take lower 006.25% (-75%) take higher 043.75% (+75%)
need a 15: normal 030.00%, take lower 009.00% (-70%) take higher 051.00% (+70%)
need a 14: normal 035.00%, take lower 012.25% (-65%) take higher 057.75% (+65%)
need a 13: normal 040.00%, take lower 016.00% (-60%) take higher 064.00% (+60%)
need a 12: normal 045.00%, take lower 020.25% (-55%) take higher 069.75% (+55%)
need a 11: normal 050.00%, take lower 025.00% (-50%) take higher 075.00% (+50%)
need a 10: normal 055.00%, take lower 030.25% (-45%) take higher 079.75% (+45%)
need a 09: normal 060.00%, take lower 036.00% (-40%) take higher 084.00% (+40%)
need a 08: normal 065.00%, take lower 042.25% (-35%) take higher 087.75% (+35%)
need a 07: normal 070.00%, take lower 049.00% (-30%) take higher 091.00% (+30%)
need a 06: normal 075.00%, take lower 056.25% (-25%) take higher 093.75% (+25%)
need a 05: normal 080.00%, take lower 064.00% (-20%) take higher 096.00% (+20%)
need a 04: normal 085.00%, take lower 072.25% (-15%) take higher 097.75% (+15%)
need a 03: normal 090.00%, take lower 081.00% (-10%) take higher 099.00% (+10%)
need a 02: normal 095.00%, take lower 090.25% (-05%) take higher 099.75% (+05%)
need a 01: normal 100.00%, take lower 100.00% (-00%) take higher 100.00% (+00%)

And perhaps more interestingly:

need a 20, effective d20 addjustment +/- 0.95
need a 19, effective d20 addjustment +/- 1.80
need a 18, effective d20 addjustment +/- 2.55
need a 17, effective d20 addjustment +/- 3.20
need a 16, effective d20 addjustment +/- 3.75
need a 15, effective d20 addjustment +/- 4.20
need a 14, effective d20 addjustment +/- 4.55
need a 13, effective d20 addjustment +/- 4.80
need a 12, effective d20 addjustment +/- 4.95
need a 11, effective d20 addjustment +/- 5.00
need a 10, effective d20 addjustment +/- 4.95
need a 09, effective d20 addjustment +/- 4.80
need a 08, effective d20 addjustment +/- 4.55
need a 07, effective d20 addjustment +/- 4.20
need a 06, effective d20 addjustment +/- 3.75
need a 05, effective d20 addjustment +/- 3.20
need a 04, effective d20 addjustment +/- 2.55
need a 03, effective d20 addjustment +/- 1.80
need a 02, effective d20 addjustment +/- 0.95
need a 01, effective d20 addjustment +/- 0.00

Dark Archive

The effects on criticals (critical threats) are even more pronounced.

Chances of a critical threat:

crit 20: normal 5%, take lower 0.25%, take higher 9.75%
crit 19-20: normal 10%, take lower 1%, take higher 19%
crit 18-20: normal 15%, take lower 2.25%, take higher 27.75%

Basically, a misfortuned person pretty much waves goodbye to any chance of criticalling.

Richard

Dark Archive

I haven't seen it posted anywhere else, so FYI, the effect on a D20 is:

- 3.325

i.e. expected results on a D20 are:

Ordinary: 10.5
roll 2x and take lower: 7.175
roll 2x and take higher: 13.825

Richard

Dark Archive

So Witch + slumber hex = bye, bye, Argus

(I do hate that slumber hex)

Richard

Dark Archive

Yes, well, if I ever employ a sentry, I'll make sure it doesn't suffer from narcolepsy.

Anyway, what does "vulnerable to sleep" actually mean in game terms?

Richard

Dark Archive

I guess, but I can't see what use it is a sentry.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Argus on d20pfsrd

What does "vulnerable to sleep" mean?

And how is this thing a "vigilant and restless sentry" when it's vulnerable to sleep?

Richard

Dark Archive

My argument regarding this would be, enchantment also adds hardness and hit points to a weapon. If enchantment only applied to the head, then you would be able to sunder a magical spear like a normal spear by chopping at the haft. Which isn't the case.

So enchantment must apply to the whole weapon.

Richard

Dark Archive

Turns out my formula was slightly wrong, it should be:

number-to-hit < 21 - ( average-damage / power-attack-extra-damage ) - power-attack-bab-multiplier

where the latter starts at 1, goes to 2 on bab 4, etc

Like I said, this doesn't take into account the 1s and 20s (I'll leave a better mathematician for that one).

Here's my workings:

DPA = max(0.05, min(0.95, (21 + atk - AC)/20)) * (1 + thr * (crit - 1)/20) * dmg

Remove the 1s and 20s bit, and let Z = (1 + thr * (crit - 1)/20)

DPA = ( (21 + atk - AC) / 20 ) * Z * dmg

Factor out the / 20:

DPA = (21 + atk - AC) * dmg * ( Z / 20 )

Power Attack has two components, a bab based one (1, 2 when BAB = 4, and so on), which we'll call B, and a component based on whether you are using a one or two handed weapon, i.e. either 2 or 3, which we'll call T.

So, when you power attack, your atk goes down by B and your damage goes up by BT, giving us:

DPA(pow) = (21 + atk - B - AC) * ( dmg + BT ) * ( Z / 20 )

We should power attack when this is better than not doing so, i.e. Power Attack when:

DPA(pow) > DPA, i.e.

(21 + atk - B - AC) * ( dmg + BT ) * ( Z / 20 ) > (21 + atk - AC) * dmg * ( Z / 20 )

Cancel the Z / 20 on both sides:

(21 + atk - B - AC) * ( dmg + BT ) > (21 + atk - AC) * dmg

Expand the left hand side a bit:

(21 + atk - AC) * ( dmg + BT ) - B * ( dmg + BT ) > (21 + atk - AC) * dmg

And a bit more:

(21 + atk - AC) * dmg + (21 + atk - AC) * BT - B * ( dmg + BT ) > (21 + atk - AC) * dmg

Subtract (21 + atk - AC ) * dmg from both sides:

(21 + atk - AC) * BT - B * ( dmg + BT ) > 0

Move the negative bit across to the other side:

(21 + atk - AC) * BT > B * ( dmg + BT )

Cancel out one B and divide by T

(21 + atk - AC) > ( dmg + BT ) / T

Divide the T on the right hand side into the brackets:

(21 + atk - AC) > ( dmg / T ) + B

Subtract each side from 21 (which reverses the inequality)

AC - atk < 21 - ( dmg / T ) - B

Which is basically my (now slightly corrected) formula.

Richard

Dark Archive

blahpers wrote:
With respect, your example is useless, as it doesn't exist in practice. Pathfinder mechanics don't really scale well past a certain point.

The decision to power attack as a means of achieving optimal damage is a mathematical one, not a game-rule one.

There's a straight formula at play here, and it's as relevant to creatures doing 1000 points of damage as it is to creatures doing 10.

But, you know, if you don't believe me, that's fine :-)

Richard

Dark Archive

I know it feels counter-intuitive but the more damage you do the less you should power attack.

Consider an extreme example: a mega-titan that does 1000 points of damage on average.

Why would such a thing ever power attack?

I'll do a bit more maths if you like, let's assume that it hits on an 11, and ignore criticals. Assume we have a complete average set of 20 rounds in which every number of the dice is rolled once.

Without Power Attack, total damage is 10 hits times 1000 = 10,000

Let's do Power Attack -1 and +3. Now it only hits 9 times but doing 1003 hit points, for a total of 9027. Much less.

Power Attack -2 and +6, and we have 8 hits doing 1006 damage, or 8048.

And so on.

Richard

Dark Archive

I've never seen this very satisfactorily explained anywhere, but from my maths, and without taking into account natural 1s and 20s, which I'm hoping will even out, you should power attack when:

number-to-hit < 21 - ( average-damage / power-attack-extra-damage )

So, for example, a 1st level barbarian with a two handed sword, +6 to hit and 2d6+6 damage: average damage is 13, power-attack-extra-damage is 3 (two handed), so

number-to-hit < 21 - (4 1/3)
number-to-hit < 16 2/3
number-to-hit <= 16

which basically means anything of AC 22 or less.

Which is going to be most things for a 1st level Barbarian

A Frost Giant, however, with a greataxe, +18/+13 for 3d6+13 damage: average damage 31, extra is 3 again so:

number-to-hit < 21 - (10 1/3)
number-to-hit < 10 2/3
number-to-hit <= 10

which basically means anything of AC 28 / 23 or less (go for the average of 25).

Which for a CR 9 monster is going to be pretty rare.

Which makes sense, as anything which does a lot of damage is going to get a very marginal gain from power attack in exchange for losing the chance to do the lots of damage it's already doing.

Most of the time, giants shouldn't power attack.

Richard

Dark Archive

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excuse the necro, but i’m going to suggest that if aid another in combat is not an attack action then it should not break invisibility.

so, either that, or you can fight defensively with it

richard

Dark Archive

just as the title says :-)

Dark Archive

sorry to bump this up but does anyone have any opinion on this?

my reading of the rules is that the shadow does.

richard

(incidentally, i just made it electrical to make a point about non fiery burning)

Dark Archive

so, if my djinn blooded sorcerer casts an ectoplasmic burming hands spell, using alchemical fire as a mateial component, changing the damage type (and spell type) to electrical, against a shadow that fails its reflex save, does that shadow start to burn with ectoplasmic electrical flame?

richard

Dark Archive

is pfs legal for ifrits only

but it is part of the solar sorcerer bloodline which is not race restricted.

so, can a non ifrit solar sorcerer use fury of the sun as his bloodline bonus spell in pfs?

(hero lab says no, btw)

Dark Archive

I just want to check I've got a few things right:

1st level Gnome Sorcerer (crossblooded)

Alternative racial: Lava Gnome (Darkvision and Pyromaniac), Eternal Hope, Nosophobia

Bloodlines: Orc and Solar

1st level bloodline power: Sunsight

From all of this, I have low-light vision, darkvision 90' and although I have light sensitivity I'm immune to being dazzled so it doesn't bother me.

Then:

Feats: Point-Blank Shot
Traits: Gifted Adept (Burning Hands), Extremely Fashionable (Diplomacy)

Spells:
0: Acid Splash, Daze, Disrupt Undead
1: Burning Hands

Burning hands does 3d4+6 damage. Disrupt Undead and Acid Splash both do +2 damage too (point-blank shot and orc bloodline).

I'm getting 2 skill points per level which I'm putting on Bluff and Diplomacy, and wearing very fashionable clothes :-)

Where I'm going next with this is down the fire route, with Precise Shot, Scorching Ray, Fireball, etc. First magic item will probably be an elemental meta-magic rod to turn the fire into electricity if I need to, or intensify to raise my burning hands some more.

Looks good?

Richard

P.S.F.Y.I

Stats are: STR 5 DEX 14 CON 16 INT 7 WIS 14 CHA 19 and I'm putting my one class point into skills

Dark Archive

It was this bit in the arcana:

one target of your choice affected by the spell takes 2 additional hit points of damage

vs this in the swarm type:

A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures

I wasn't sure whether a swarm was a target.

Richard

Dark Archive

will it do 1d4+2 damage x 1.5 for a 1st lvl sorcerer?

Dark Archive

Heroic Recovery is a feat that gives you a once per day ability.

So - does that mean that as a Ki Power it can only be used once per day?

Or do you get to use it every time you use a Ki point?

Richard

Dark Archive

I guess we've taken the approach that no magic item is harder to buy than any other, so I can buy a psychic scroll of faerie fire as easily as a druidic one.

I'm wondering now if there are any spells which you can't cast using Cha.

Richard

Dark Archive

FF is on the Mesmerist spell list, so you can get a psychic scroll made with that spell which you then cast using CHA as the stat.

I think that broadly speaking as long as you are buying the scroll yourself, you can probably always find a CHA based caster that can cast any spell.

Which is most optimal for UMD, since you're likely to have a reasonable CHA just to use the skill.

Dark Archive

Got it; but am I right that otherwise you can pick the most favourable class for your stat bonus (likely charisma for UMD) to avoid having to make that rather hard UMD spell-casting attribute check (i.e. use Oracle for divine and sorcerer for arcane)?

Dark Archive

I *think* this is correct but I want to double check.

If I get myself a scroll of Faerie Fire, can I use it with UMD by pretending to be a Mesmerist, that has FF on its list, but thereby only needing to have a high Cha score rather than a high Wis score?

My understanding is that spells on scrolls do not have a particular class hard-coded into them.

Otherwise, presumably, I could buy a Mesmerist FF scroll.

Richard

Dark Archive

Thanks for all the answers.

I had always imagined they were the same thing but I stand corrected.

Richard

Dark Archive

Although there are some spells which are particularly called "ray", the term seems to have been used as flavour text in some places (e.g. Disintegration) leading me to believe that "ray" was never meant to be a game concept as such and that it is really just synonymous to ranged touch.

Am I right?

Or do you, for example, have to take Weapon Focus( Ray ) and Weapon Focus (ranged touch) separately?

Richard

Dark Archive

Dragonborn3 wrote:
It takes a bit to qualify for, Unhindering Shield would be better.

Thank you for that.

Although it takes 3 feats, you then potentially have access to 6 points of AC (+5 Buckler). That's pretty good, in my opinion.

Richard

Dark Archive

Sorry - I was being stupid.

The quickdraw thing is just to allow you to flurry.

But you are both right.

Richard

Dark Archive

TVM

On the second one, because you put your shield away at the end of your initiative/turn, and then you're no longer wielding it so you *do* get your AC whilst everybody else is busy trying to hit you.

Dark Archive

1) Can a monk with a two handed weapon still deflect arrows when not on his turn, by using free actions to free one hand at the end of his turn and reapplying his hand to the two-handed weapon at the beginning of it?

It would presumably mean that AoOs would have to be with unarmed strikes.

2) Am I right that you need to have Shield Proficiency to use a quickdraw shield, so a monk that wants to use such a shield when it isn't his turn will need two feats: shield proficiency and quickdraw?

Cheers

Richard

Dark Archive

Planar AP coming next?

Dark Archive

I think this is a rules rather than an interpretation question, but an incident came up at our game last night which illustrated that we hadn't (I think) being playing this right.

Dominate Person is very much geared on the concept of a "command". The dominated person is only controlled by the dominator to the degree that they obey that command to the exclusion of all else save their survival needs, and it takes a move action to change that command so this is nothing like a puppetteer subconsciously controlling his puppets.

So what happened:

An NPC bard dominated a PC fighter and told him, trying to be clever, to go and subdue one of his friends (2nd PC) because he's sure that 2nd PC has been possessed. The NPC was trying to make the request sound reasonable because someone had already been possessed earlier in the combat and suggesting subdual is in keeping with what the PC would do - so no need for another saving throw.

All fine and well.

Then the 2nd PC disappeared and the first PC did not know where, although in the light of what happens next one might even consider that this event is not actually necessary.

The first PC still saw the NPC bard that had dominated him as an enemy. There's no "charm" component in dominate. So the PC argued that his survival needs required that he defeat the enemy, which he promptly did before the NPC bard got a chance to use a move action to change his command.

So if all of this was reasonable, which I guess is my question, then any time you dominate someone your command to them has got to include "don't attack me and my friends but do this and that instead" or you could find your command ignored.

Richard

Dark Archive

I quite like this because it suggests that world changing events happen at the rate of 2 a year, which is quite realistic imo. It also shows how incredibly rare PCs are.

I would like to suggest that Paizo thinks about producing something along the lines of The Poor Wizard's Almanac for Golarion.

Richard

Dark Archive

i thought i read somewhere that golarion time runs at the same rate as real world time.

Dark Archive

Is there somewhere a chronology showing everything that's happened in Golarion since Rise of the Runelords?

I suppose more generally, does Golarion represent a world that is changing, or one that is broadly static? If the latter, where's the best place to find out what has changed?

Richard

Dark Archive

Alaryth wrote:
richard develyn wrote:

Veo la misma cosa en Inglaterra con Pathfinder. Desde que empezó D&D cinco, la selección de Pathfinder ha bajado mucho en las tiendes acá también.

I've seen the same thing in England with Pathfinder. Since D&D 5th edition arrived, the Pathfinder selection has gone down quite a lot in the shops here too.

Richard

P.S. Apologies for mistakes in Spanish. I'm not as fluent as I was.

Don't worry; I am not so confident on my English either.

Just to help: In spanish sound better "veo lo mismo" que "veo la misma cosa". And on Spain at least, we use more "aqui" that "aca". "Aca" is more for latin-american spanish.

Soy medio-argentino :-)

I'm half argentine :-)

Richard

Dark Archive

Veo la misma cosa en Inglaterra con Pathfinder. Desde que empezó D&D cinco, la selección de Pathfinder ha bajado mucho en las tiendes acá también.

I've seen the same thing in England with Pathfinder. Since D&D 5th edition arrived, the Pathfinder selection has gone down quite a lot in the shops here too.

Richard

P.S. Apologies for mistakes in Spanish. I'm not as fluent as I was.

Dark Archive

¿Hay mucha gente en España que juga Pathfinder?

Are there many people in Spain that play Pathfinder?

(Imagino que todo el mundo acá entienden Inglés pero me falta practica)

(I imagine everyone here understands English but I need the practice)

Ricardo

Richard

Dark Archive

I couldn't think of a better word than reclassifying, but my question is best illustrated with an example.

Assume an elven first level fighter takes Weapon Focus as his 1st level feat and Weapon Finesse as his fighter bonus feat:

Could he, on going up a level, take Toughness as his new feat by re-classifying Weapon Focus as his second fighter bonus feat?

Or would this be retraining?

Richard

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've just noticed this thread.

It's only taken 11 years.

I'm reading:

Eon, by Greg Bear,
Islam, the Essentials, by Tariq Ramadan,
and this thread.

Richard

Dark Archive

So just to summarise, if the only reason I'm losing Dex to you is because I can't see you, then if I have Blind Fight, I don't lose my Dex to you.

Is that right?

Richard

Dark Archive

That seems sensible.

I just want to know how Blind Fight should work and propose it to my GM that way before deciding whether to take the feat.

Richard

Dark Archive

What's the sensible way for this to work?

Richard

Dark Archive

I've seen previous posts, and they seemed inconclusive on this point (unless I missed one somewhere).

In particular, I'm looking at this part of the feat:

"An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible."

My question is, if the attacker is doing other things which would cause you to lose your Dexterity, such as sneaking up on you, do you still not lose your Dexterity bonus?

RAW as far as I can see implies that if the attacker is invisible then you don't lose your Dexterity bonus no matter what he's doing. In some ways, you are better against invisible opponents against visible ones. That doesn't seem too odd to me - blind people often have enhanced non-visual senses.

It does lead to the curious situation, though, that if a hidden invisible rogue 5' stepped out of cover and attacked you, and you have Blind Fight, then he wont sneak attack you on the first attack, but when he then becomes visible he will (assuming you didn't hear him).

Is this right?

Richard

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm playing the second character in a row that somewhat resembles my daughter (Holly in Kingmaker then Xexilia in Wrath of the Righteous).

Richard

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's down to demand, as well as supply.

High level adventures aren't going to suit casual gamers very much.

I read somewhere that most RPG groups don't last longer than 6 months.

If you look at the reviews for the Paizo APs, you'll see many more reviews for lower level modules than for higher level ones, with particularly the first adventure getting more than the others.

Richard

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