Golarion Modern Chronology


Advice

Dark Archive

Is there somewhere a chronology showing everything that's happened in Golarion since Rise of the Runelords?

I suppose more generally, does Golarion represent a world that is changing, or one that is broadly static? If the latter, where's the best place to find out what has changed?

Richard

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Virtually all AP happened around the same time, except some AP mentioning some previous events (like Shattered Star), so at most, you are looking at 1 or 2 years since 4716.

Dark Archive

i thought i read somewhere that golarion time runs at the same rate as real world time.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Not sure, I don't recall ever hearing that.
No new materials has ever mentioned that we are in the year 4720+.


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because were in 4717, RotRL took place in 4707/08 ;)
Golarion is both, static and changing, depending how you prefer it. Most APs can be played in any order (with Shattered Star being the exception, happening after RotRL, CotCT and SD; and JR being the other exception, happening after RotRL; and HR/HV being the other other exceptions, happening after CoT...and then there are threads going through the Varisian APs that make more sense if you play them in publication order, but most people don't even notice them)


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The default assumed date is pretty easy to work out. Check the date the AP was published. Take the last two digits from that year. The default assumed date is 47xx, where xx equals the last two digits of the published year.

So, RotR is assumed to take place in 4707, Reign of Winter in 4712, and Strange Aeons in 4716.

Fun little fact, Reign of Winter establishes that the year on Earth in 4712 is 1918, which means that Strange Aeons is assumed to take place in the 1920's, when most of Lovecraft's stories take place.

Dark Archive

I quite like this because it suggests that world changing events happen at the rate of 2 a year, which is quite realistic imo. It also shows how incredibly rare PCs are.

I would like to suggest that Paizo thinks about producing something along the lines of The Poor Wizard's Almanac for Golarion.

Richard


well, if the PCs are successful, world changing events are AVOIDED twice a year, most of the time


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richard develyn wrote:
I would like to suggest that Paizo thinks about producing something along the lines of The Poor Wizard's Almanac for Golarion.

I feel that, outside of the context of playing an AP that assumes the events of another AP have already happened, it's probably for the best that Paizo does not otherwise comment on major world-changing events. Since if they drop a reference to, say:

Spoiler:
The Worldwound closing, or the Chellish naval defeat in the Shackles

in a player companion or campaign setting book, and we haven't played Wrath of the Righteous or Skull and Shackles yet, that's potentially a bummer for the player who didn't expect that spoiler. Plus, of the APs people have played, the events likely played out very differently from table to table, so anything more than vague allusions run the risk of invalidating some group's story from a position of authority.

Plus, it's not as though we ought to prevent people from telling completely different stories that are mutually exclusive with the events of an Adventure Path, if that's what they want to do. If you want run a campaign where you overthrow the House of Thrune and install democracy in Cheliax, you can do that, but you're not going to be able to play a bunch of APs set there thereafter without a lot of tweaking.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Plus, it's not as though we ought to prevent people from telling completely different stories that are mutually exclusive with the events of an Adventure Path, if that's what they want to do.If you want run a campaign where you overthrow the House of Thrune and install democracy in Cheliax, you can do that, but you're not going to be able to play a bunch of APs set there thereafter without a lot of tweaking.

I don't think that I see your point there, because I don't see the difference. As soon as I do something like that, the next AP playing in Cheliax will pose that problem for me, no matter if time has continued ot not. It's basically no difference to me if my version of Golarion deviates from the status quo kept or if it deviates from the continuation of the timeline as envisioned by the authors.

And the only way to avoid that would basically to reset the setting with each new AP, and that would in fact invalidate everything that happened in our game before.


WormysQueue wrote:

I don't think that I see your point there, because I don't see the difference. As soon as I do something like that, the next AP playing in Cheliax will pose that problem for me, no matter if time has continued ot not. It's basically no difference to me if my version of Golarion deviates from the status quo kept or if it deviates from the continuation of the timeline as envisioned by the authors.

And the only way to avoid that would basically to reset the setting with each new AP, and that would in fact invalidate everything that happened in our game before.

What I'm saying is that plot development that takes place in Adventure Paths should be limited to Adventure Path line books and not bleed over into Player Companion or Campaign Setting stuff. If you're playing an AP you're making certain assumptions about Paizo's authority over your version of Golarion, which is all well and good, but if you avoid APs because you don't want that, you shouldn't have to deal with it. APs are peculiar in a way that other books are not, since as soon as Ultimate Wilderness comes out the Shifter Class will exist, but the events of an AP won't have happened for a specific group until they sit down and actually play that AP.

Indeed, IMO APs should be as self-contained as possible. While people in Osiron would have certainly heard about the events that took place in Wrath of the Righteous, you don't want to comment on them in the next Osiron AP though you can talk about Mummy's Mask all you want, though you should do so in vague terms that allow for a range of possibilities to be tuned for a group that has played Mummy's Mask.

Any sort of authoritative book about "In year X such-and-such event from an AP took place, rather than the other events that could have happened in that AP instead" would be a bad idea.

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
What I'm saying is that plot development that takes place in Adventure Paths should be limited to Adventure Path line books and not bleed over into Player Companion or Campaign Setting stuff.

Ah, thanks for the clarification now I get it. I'm not necessarily agreeing with your opinion on that, because I really like a continuous flow of time, but then I'd also have no problems on spending money on an updated Campaign Setting book from time to time. As I also have no problems playing or running an AP that basically happened in the setting's past.


PossibleCabbage wrote:


plot development that takes place in Adventure Paths should be limited to Adventure Path line books and not bleed over into Player Companion or Campaign Setting stuff.

This has already happend a couple of times and the world is still spinning and just as an educated guess the world might stil spin if it happens again.

An updated Campaign Setting every ten to fifteen years or so is absolutely reasonable, in my opinion. It's just when the setting gets updated every year (or similar short spans) when it starts to get annoying


Our group has a similar opinion, and we "time-hop", using the default assumed timeline, but many groups don't. Not only that, but the individual results for adventure path conclusions vary so wildly as to make "canonical" resolutions to them have no value (and in fact have a *negative* effect, as it may make the idea of playing "predetermined" adventure paths an extremely uncompelling option for many players.)

In fact, even though we "time hop", we also rotate GMs, and we don't really look into the events of campaigns we haven't run yet, *because* we tend to make our own personal marks on whatever AP we touch. We generally have a rough idea of what happens in an AP and use that to make very vague references if necessary.

I do get what you're saying, but if it's something you want for "your" Golarion, it's nothing a bit of Googling can't solve for you.


Hythlodeus wrote:

This has already happend a couple of times and the world is still spinning and just as an educated guess the world might stil spin if it happens again.

An updated Campaign Setting every ten to fifteen years or so is absolutely reasonable, in my opinion. It's just when the setting gets updated every year (or similar short spans) when it starts to get annoying

I think the thing is, that it's really quite difficult to keep up with APs so almost every group, no matter how regularly they play, will have some of them they haven't gotten around to but may yet someday. So if you print a big "campaign setting update" book, that says "In AP X all these things happened" then you're basically telling people who haven't played that one yet "don't bother, you already know what happens from reading this."

I think the only ones it's really reasonable to canonize at this point are RotRL (because it's the iconic original), and the APs that are pre-PFRPG which still use the 3.5 rules (because it's honestly kind of difficult in 2017 back-converting to 3.5.) If there's a similarly sized rules update, so that it will involve extra adaptation work to convert old APs, and you're not planning on releasing updates special editions, I guess you could canonize those too.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was said somewhere (might have been in Shattered Star, perhaps? Or later Society seasons?) that everything up to Shattered Star has been assumed to have happened in the setting at this point, and that assumption is used in most world sourcebooks now.

I mean, realistically, a number of the AP's effects are not exactly public. If Second Darkness was averted, for instance, there would be virtually no public knowledge of what went on. Some sages might know a few parts, and Kyonin may have changed a little, but overall, there are few effects a player part will notice. I presume most of the other APs are similar.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ah-ha - it was actually in Shattered Star itself.

Quote:
The Shattered Star Adventure Path is a first in Paizo's Adventure Path line—a complete campaign set after the events of previous Adventure Paths. Shattered Star serves as a spiritual sequel to Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Second Darkness alike, yet it delves into a brand new storyline, making it as good as a group's first introduction to Varisia as a return to old stomping grounds.

So, SS presumed the previous APs had taken place.


Hell's Vengeance assumes that Council of Thieves happened:

(From the Player's Guide)

Quote:
In addition, Hell’s Vengeance assumes that the events of the Council of Thieves Adventure Path have already occurred. This has little effect on the Adventure Path as a whole until the final adventure, but if you or your GM are planning to play or run Council of Thieves in the future, you should be aware that there will likely be some inconsistencies between the two campaigns if they are run outside of the assumed order.

But there's a big difference between "AP set in Cheliax assumes previously published AP happened" and "a campaign setting book that intersects with Cheliax assumes Cheliax AP happened" and even more difference between those and "Player companion book that references Cheliax assumes Cheliax AP happened."


PossibleCabbage wrote:

Hell's Vengeance assumes that Council of Thieves happened:

(From the Player's Guide)

Quote:
In addition, Hell’s Vengeance assumes that the events of the Council of Thieves Adventure Path have already occurred. This has little effect on the Adventure Path as a whole until the final adventure, but if you or your GM are planning to play or run Council of Thieves in the future, you should be aware that there will likely be some inconsistencies between the two campaigns if they are run outside of the assumed order.
But there's a big difference between "AP set in Cheliax assumes previously published AP happened" and "a campaign setting book that intersects with Cheliax assumes Cheliax AP happened" and even more difference between those and "Player companion book that references Cheliax assumes Cheliax AP happened."

wasn't there a recent book with organizations of the Inner Sea that was clearly set AFTER CotCT? or am I imaging things?


Tonight I actually found a really great way to mention the events of a AP in a non-AP book without running the risk of spoiling anybody or overwriting anybody's experience.

The Heritor Knight's 6th level ability is named (I think) as a reference to a thing that *can happen* in Wrath of the Righteous, so will have a special meaning to people who have completed that AP and did that thing, but would pass without mention for anybody else.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hythlodeus wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

Hell's Vengeance assumes that Council of Thieves happened:

(From the Player's Guide)

Quote:
In addition, Hell’s Vengeance assumes that the events of the Council of Thieves Adventure Path have already occurred. This has little effect on the Adventure Path as a whole until the final adventure, but if you or your GM are planning to play or run Council of Thieves in the future, you should be aware that there will likely be some inconsistencies between the two campaigns if they are run outside of the assumed order.
But there's a big difference between "AP set in Cheliax assumes previously published AP happened" and "a campaign setting book that intersects with Cheliax assumes Cheliax AP happened" and even more difference between those and "Player companion book that references Cheliax assumes Cheliax AP happened."
wasn't there a recent book with organizations of the Inner Sea that was clearly set AFTER CotCT? or am I imaging things?

That's the Adventurer's Guide, and yes, it assumes several APs (Council of Thieves, CotCT, Hell's Rebels--maybe some others, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head) have taken place.

I'm fine with how they're doing it currently, personally, with most relatively unconnected but the sort of background vague assumption that the past APs have taken place (without referencing them except in certain cases). My group's timeline for APs differs quite a bit from the assumed progression, though. I usually do work in links to past APs played/cameos of characters from those into APs on my own, though. Fun bit of personalization.

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