His Mighty Girthness Chief Rendwattle Gutwad

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Starfinder Superscriber. ** Starfinder Society GM. 1,170 posts (1,543 including aliases). 7 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 10 Organized Play characters. 2 aliases.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Also, a 30hr day?

No wonder vesk are always so cranky. They probably sleep for 12hrs at a go back home.


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Starfinder Superscriber

That is quite good. Very fun and fitting.

I don't know if it was intentional, but this line...

Quote:
And in the morning, after a good night’s rest, he would again be ready for battle, of a sort. Ramalakesh would do his duty to the empire and conquer Absalom Station. He would make it a part of him, and himself a part of it, and maybe his efforts would help bring the peoples of the Veskarium and the Pact Worlds just a tiny bit closer together in true friendship.

Conjured up a sort of homage to Heinlein's Martians and 'grok'. It's now head-canon that this is what 'conquer' means it Vesk. To make something a part of you and you a part of it. In my head, vesk now use 'conquer' as a catch-all verb for eat, drink, become friends with, mate, own, make peace with, defeat in games, lose in games, and everything in between.

⦵⦵

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Starfinder Superscriber

Every walrus is Teddy Roosevelt in my head...


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Starfinder Superscriber
Ascalaphus wrote:
But you can't do that with soulfire, because a solar weapon isn't a crystal so soulfire can't go on it. So soulfire has to be some kind of exception that stays on the crystal but still boosts the weapon. Again messy.

This, right here, is absolutely not true. No one is making any assumptions about how soulfire works. The text of soulfire clearly defines exactly how it works.

Soulfire wrote:
The soulfire fusion (and soulfire fusion seals) can only be applied to solarian weapon crystals. When you hit a target with a solar weapon augmented by a solarian weapon crystal with the soulfire fusion, you add your Charisma bonus to the damage done, in addition to your Strength bonus.

1. Soulfire as a fusion, can only be put on a solarian weapon crystal.

2. If you're using a Solar Weapon augmented by a solarian weapon crystal with the fusion, you add charisma to damage.

It's two clear sentences. It isn't 'messy'.

The crux of the issue is that the text from solar flare is also clear. If you can't apply a fusion to a small arm, you can't get any benefit from it on your solar flare. Full Stop. That's also clearly written. Soulfire is a fusion you can't apply to a small arm therefore you can't get any benefit from it on your solar flare. There are no massive leaps of logic. A=B!=C therefore A!=C.

If the devs meant for it to work. Great. They can come by and say that, and I hope they do.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Even if it said 'Ranged Weapons' instead of small arms, a Solarian Weapon Crystal isn't that, either.

I really can't see anything but wishful thinking here. I'm only posting the question hoping to head off the inevitable arguments in SFS if and when this gets an AR.

There's going to be a huge difference in Solar Flare performance between the tables where the DM says the damage is 1d4+5 and the ones where it's 1d4+1. I'm a bit of a munchkin, so I'd prefer the 1d4+5, but I can't read what it actually says and believe that it's legal.


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Starfinder Superscriber

The Android Abolitionist Front is a canon organization attempting to free the many androids still in slavery. They seem more CG than LG, but they are fighting for at least some sapient creature's rights.

The Knights of Golarion are an offshoot of the church of Iomedae (LG). They work as protectors for humans and all the 'children of Golarion' among other things. One would assume at least some of that is attempting to protect the rights of sapient creatures.

The Starfinder Society has an alignment and missions all over the Neutral to Good map. At least officially they don't allow evil members. Some of what they do is look for and make contact with sapient creatures.

The Stewards are closer to LN, I think, but LG might be valid. They're essentially a combination of Interpol/FBI, the Coast Guard, and the State Department. But they're closer to a government organization than a non-profit like AI. At least some of what they do is protecting the rights of sapient creatures.

Those are the only canon organizations I can think of that are close. But I'm hoping for more organizations in future Pact Worlds style books. There's a Near Space book coming out in March, maybe we'll get lucky and the Veskarium or Hobgoblin empire has something like that.


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Starfinder Superscriber

All the extant classes, including the mechanic, got new 'base' options and new 'selection' options. For the mechanic, that means instead of choosing Exocortex or Drone, you can now also choose Armor or Weapon, which gives you an experimental (effectively 'bleeding edge') suit of armor or weapon, respectively and the pre-requisite proficiencies to use them.

Mechanics also got a handful of new Mechanic Tricks. Portable Charging Station and Technological Medic could both be really useful in some groups/campaigns.

Oh, snap. There's an 8th level mechanic trick that actually does do something in Starship Combat. Bolster Armor gives you an ability similar to energy shield in normal combat (grant someone temp HP) but in starship combat, you can boost the armor class of your ship in a single quadrant or grant it shield points equal to your mechanic level. Nice! There's also a 14th level one called Inventive Engineer that gives you several new starship combat options.


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Starfinder Superscriber

To start, I usually get:

Armor: Second Skin (250) or Golemforged Plating I (250)
Ranged: Pulsecaster Rifle (100) or Pulsecaster Pistol (250)
Melee: Survival Knife (95) or Assault Hammer (95)

Personal: Industrial Backpack (25), Everyday Clothing x3 (3), Environmental Clothing x6 (60), Travel Clothing (10), Professional Clothing^ (0 or 5), Lighter* (1), Canteen* (1), Hygiene Kit (3)

Technological: Personal Comm Unit (7), Fire Extinguisher (15), Basic Medkit^ (0 or 100), Professional Toolkit^ (0 or 20), Engineering Toolkit^ (0 or 20), Hacking Toolkit^ (0 or 20), Disguise Toolkit^ (0 or 20), Trapsmith's Toolkit^ (0 or 20),

Magical: 1-4 Mk1 Serums of Healing (50-200)

Misc: Field Ration (1) or R2E x8 (8)

*Items from Armory
^Items only purchased if taking the appropriate skills and don't get the effect of them for free.

That's a total between 621 and 1133, so you may not be able to get all of it. I'll adjust the weapons or armor based on proficiency and class. For humans and other races without darkvision, I'll usually add an infrared sensors armor upgrade if I can make that work. I try to replace the pulsecasters (which do nonlethal) with something that drops in the first fight that does lethal damage. For SFS I'll rebuild them away sometime before level 2. For campaign games, I'll keep them as backup weapons for as long as I have the bulk to carry them. The Golemforged plating, likewise, gets replaced ASAP because I hate the speed penalty and lack of dex bonus, but I tend to stick with second skin until near 4th or 5th level when I can afford a D-Suit.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, the above is intentionally missing some things that are very important in many games long term. It doesn't have Rope, a Tent, bedding, or Manacles, for example, which are all things I tend to buy before reaching 2nd level if I can. In my experience, though, most people don't need those sorts of things for the first game most of the time, and they tend to be heavy, so I don't usually start with them. There are also flavor items like holy symbols that I get for characters that would have them that aren't on that list, I tried to keep it generic on purpose.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Here are the rules in question, so that they are clear before we begin.

Soulfire wrote:
The soulfire fusion (and soulfire fusion seals) can only be applied to solarian weapon crystals. When you hit a target with a solar weapon augmented by a solarian weapon crystal with the soulfire fusion, you add your Charisma bonus to the damage done, in addition to your Strength bonus.
Solar Flare wrote:
Any solarian class features (including stellar revelations and zenith revelations) that specifically affect melee weapons (such as the flashing strikes class feature) function with your solar flare, even if they normally work only with melee attacks. Anything that specifically affects solar weapons (such as solarian weapon crystals) affects your solar flare in the same way, though it can’t gain any weapon special property, critical hit effect, or weapon fusion that can’t be applied to a small arm.

Some people are arguing that the intent is for Soulfire to work with Solar Flare. I think the RAW is pretty clear that it doesn't (and I generally assume the developers at least try to write what they intend). Solar Flare can only benefit from fusions that you can put on small arms, and Soulfire is a fusion you can only put on Weapon Crystals. Those two things are not equal, so they can't work. But a number of people are already assuming they do and before this turns into another Ring of Fangs, it would be nice to get dev clarification or a FAQ. Especially since I'd love to be wrong here and get Soulfire on my solar flare.


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Starfinder Superscriber

The RAW for adding Charisma to damage on Solar Flare doesn't work. Soulfire explicitly states that it's a fusion that can only be applied to solarian crystals, and Solar Flare explicitly states that it can only benefit from fusions that work on Small Arms. Those two things are unequal and mutually exclusive. It may have been intended for them to work together, but without a FAQ they don't. I wouldn't recommend building a character around the assumption that they do until a DEV (or your GM in a home game) confirms that they do.

I think you probably want a 16/16 or 18/14 on a ranged solarian (either longarm+armor or solar flare), as you need the resolve and on top of that new revelations for solarian make it possible for you to do some ranged tricks with your other revelations making the DC boost worth it.


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Starfinder Superscriber

We're way way way off topic from the OP, so this will be my last response and I'm only doing it to clarify what I said.

Quote:
Run me through your math on this? I'm not sure how you get to that figure. What I got for a single shot, factoring in specialization but nothing else, is:

Your chart is ignoring the extra damage from the solarian weapon crystals, which does itself work. Solarian Weapon crystals themselves explicitly do affect solar flare, just not the weapon special properties, crit hit effects, or fusions that can't be applied to a small arm that they may have on them.

There's a level 20 weapon crystal that adds 10d4 damage, for example. That makes the total damage 22d4+20 which is either equal to or higher average damage than the highest longarm damage in the game at 20th. There are several level 6 and 7 crystals that add 1d4. That makes the total damage at 6th 3d4+6, which is also comparable to longarms of 6th or 7th level. I'm not sure those are the highest numbers, I just picked the d4 ones because they made the math easy to do in my head.

If you add together weapon crystal damage to base damage for solar flare, the solar flare is roughly equal to or greater than the highest damage longarms of equal level for most levels from level 6-20. The only ones I saw that consistently beat it are those acid ones from Dead Suns 2 that are base d20s for damage. From 1-2 it's small arm or slightly better. From 3-5 it starts catching up from small arm to longarm. After that, it's high end longarm.

I don't think it 'breaks' anything to add charisma on top of that. I just think it's wrong to assume it's intended for you to be adding charisma on top of that.


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Starfinder Superscriber

If it needs to be wrapped in a simplified math formula, is the price

1.5^n*Original Price where n = the number of levels upgraded?

Or Summation (1.5^x*Original Price) where x goes from 0 to n and n is the number of levels upgraded?

My contention is that it's meant to be the former.


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Starfinder Superscriber

I'd love for it to work, but

A - I'm not convinced that it's intended for it to work. You can already do something like 22d4+20 with it at 20th level before solarian revelations or the photon attunement bonus. That already makes far more damaging than any other small arm and I think there's only even one longarm that is close to it. This is a trend for most of the 6-20 range. It's consistently already at or near the top of longarm damage throughout. Letting soulfire work would let it contend from 1-6 where it's clearly behind, so it could be intended. I'd definitely click a FAQ button if someone put a rules thread out there asking that question. But you can't assume its intended just because you want it to be. I'd be happy to be wrong.

B - Soulfire clearly states that it's a fusion that can only be put on a solarian weapon crystal. Solar flare clearly states that it can only benefit from fusions that would work on a small arm. Those two things are mutually exclusive. Neither of these sentences are using fancy or obtuse legalese. "The soulfire fusion (and soulfire fusion seals) can only be applied to solarian weapon crystals." "Anything that specifically affects solar weapons (such as solarian weapon crystals) affects your solar flare in the same way, though it can’t gain any weapon special property, critical hit effect, or weapon fusion that can’t be applied to a small arm." That's not bad language, that's exceptionally clear. It doesn't work.


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Starfinder Superscriber

It's this part that makes soulfire not work...

Bolding Added wrote:
Any solarian class features (including stellar revelations and zenith revelations) that specifically affect melee weapons (such as the flashing strikes class feature) function with your solar flare, even if they normally work only with melee attacks. Anything that specifically affects solar weapons (such as solarian weapon crystals) affects your solar flare in the same way, though it can’t gain any weapon special property, critical hit effect, or weapon fusion that can’t be applied to a small arm.

Soulfire explicitly cannot be applied to a small arm only to a Weapon Crystal, so it cannot work with Solar Flare. I kinda wish they'd have made an exception for it, but it's already pretty well balanced with how much damage it can already do.

To the OP. I specifically asked for a nerf to the confusion ability from Biohacker as I saw how disruptive that was to combat with players that were capable of using tactics. ((Every boss fight becomes a game of ping pong)) They removed it. I also recommended adding a couple of insight bonuses to some skills for the Biohacker. They picked a slightly different set than I wanted, but I think it works.


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Starfinder Superscriber

While I suspect I know how it's 'supposed' to work, I suspect we'd also need RoF clarifications with Shields and Vanguard Entropic Strikes.

At least, I expect there will be enough fuzziness that arguments are bound to start again. A lead designers work is never done.


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Starfinder Superscriber

I can't think of an example of a mech in other media that wouldn't qualify as either a vehicle, power armor, creature, or starship in the framework of the Starfinder rules. We have examples of all them. So, from where I'm sitting, we already have mechs.

What people seem to be asking for, though, is the ability to fly around in a gundam at level 1, and I don't think it would be healthy for any of the other aspects of the game if you allowed that. You'd basically need a separate game for that.


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Starfinder Superscriber
Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
Ah, my hearts can't take much more of this!

I've been pulling other people's hearts out to compensate, but even they can't take much more of this.


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Starfinder Superscriber

The Gap is literally that, a Gap. As in, a space between two things. It has a beginning and it has an end. Noone knows for sure how long it was, as all measurements show conflicting information. It's mentioned in several places that carbon dating (and other radioactive dating methods) give conflicting results, and several stars and planets in the galaxy aren't where they 'should' be based on the estimated length of the Gap. Any records kept during the Gap (such as ledgers, newsprint, or history texts covering that period) are now filled with nonsense, or with data that changes on every reading, or are blank, mostly.

To people that lived during the Gap, nothing was amiss. They lived their lives as normal. History happened. People had Jobs. On the day the Gap ended (319 years ago in the Pact Worlds), everyone woke up and couldn't remember any contextually important data.

The examples given in various places have included:

1. Knowing someone was your spouse but not remembering when or how you got married, met, or what your partner's favorite food was.
2. Knowing (as in the case of the elves, formians, and lashunta) that you were at war with someone (or in a diplomatic pickle, for the elves), but not remembering why or who (in the case of the elves of Sovyrian).
3. Noone knows what happened to Golarian, though many 'felt' its loss (as if it was recent), and some reported that they remembered being there, but no one knows and the gods won't say anything beyond that it's 'safe' and 'in tact'. The Dwarves also have no idea what happened to Torag. People assume he's protecting Golarian, but no one is sure, and the gods aren't saying.

Some people knew things like their names and bank account numbers, but that wasn't universal. It seems it was slightly different for everyone that woke up that day. The few individuals 'alive' who had histories longer than the Gap refuse to talk about it, but can't seem to remember anything about that period or its edges.

Oh, and the edges are fuzzy. The Kasathan's homeworld came out of the Gap decades before the Pact Worlds did, they were already on their way to Akiton when the Pact Worlds awoke to the Gap. There are also randomly placed 'islands of stability' in the record. One example mentioned is that you could look at the annual ledgers for a particular corporation and find that nearly all of it is nonsense, but there be a single 'page' of data somewhere in there somewhere which seems entirely in tact. One of the early 'mandates' in the Starfinder Society was to collect as much of this data as they could.

You can't think of the Gap as a single event. The event (at the end of the Gap) where everyone forgot everything is just a part of the story. That may have been the trigger, or it may have been the result of some long process that began at the beginning. There is even a suggestion that the creation of the Drift (which happens 3 years after the Gap) 'stole' the information in the same way it steals bits of other planes whenever you use it. Hell, it could have stolen Golarion, too.

Humans, though, as a species are mostly 'over' the Gap at this current point in history. Few, if any, humans that were alive that day are still around. As a species they have a short cultural memory. What is happening this week is far more important to the daily activities of most humans than something that happened before their great-grand-rennie was even born.


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Starfinder Superscriber

'Blitz-larian' or the other soldier/solarian hybrids are solid, but they aren't the only way to build a solarian. Power-larian (Power Armor + Weapon Solarian + Max Cha + Soulfire) works really really well. So does 'Shot-larian' (Longarm + Max Dex + Armor Solarian). I've both played and run for those, they're both fun and powerful, and don't think they need much, if anything. I haven't personally seen the BFC-larian builds, but I've heard they can work.

In my home Dead Suns campaign, which began post Armory and therefore the solarian started with a soulfire crystal, the solarian is the primary tank and damage dealer for the group. He outdamages both the melee and the heavy weapons soldier, easily. The first few levels were rough, in that he basically lost consciousness *every* fight, but from level 1-4 he still did well over half the damage for the entire party. Anything that wasn't a boss was a 1 or 2 hit kill and the bosses rarely lasted more than a round after he got to them.

Solarians basically have 3 problems. 1. They're extremely squishy until ~level 4. 2. They have basically nothing to do outside of combat or in Starship Combat. 3. They're MAD.

I think number 1 is an okay tradeoff for the amount of damage they can do, but could probably use a tweak. I probably would have given them Cha to Damage from the start, instead of making that later equipment dependent.

For number 2, I think they probably should have gotten 2 free ranks in their 'chosen' skills and I think Sidereal Influence should explicitly work in starship combat.

Number 3 can be helped pretty easily with equipment or multiclassing. That should have been something caught in playtesting but wasn't. MAD isn't necessarily 'bad' but since they're basically the only class that's MAD out of the box it makes them feel a lot harder than they are. I don't know that there is anything you can do about it without a complete re-write, maybe making them Wis or Con based instead of Cha would have been better. I have a feeling people are going to end up liking Vanguard a lot more than Solarian because they're less MAD from the start, even though, I bet they end up significantly 'weaker' in combat than an optimized solarian.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Weapons with the Force property still deal Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing damage, and are subject to DR as normal for Kinetic weapons. They just target EAC and deal full damage to incorporeal creatures.

Here is an example of a weapon with the force property. You can see that it still deals Bludgeoning Damage (1d6 B) even though it has the force property.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo)

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Male Xenoseeker Halfling Envoy 6 (SP-42/42|HP-38/38|RP-7/7) (EAC22/KAC23) (Saves-5/10/7) (Init-+4) Darkvision 60ft; ER5-Cold,Fire.
Skills:
Acrobatics +11, Athletics +7, Computers +12, Culture +12, Disguise +8, Engineering +12, Intimidate +13, Medicine +12, Perception +8, Piloting +13, Profession-Writer +12, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +11, Survival +2
Stats and Abilities:
Str 9 : Dex 18 : Con 12 : Int 16 : Wis 12 : Cha 18 | Corona Laser Rifle +6 (2d6+6 F) : Static Arc Pistol +8 (1d6+3 E) : Survival Knife +8 (1d4+2 S) | Get 'Em, Clever Feint, Inspiring Boost, Clever Attack

Jindam tries to follow the prodding from Uli and Royo.

Intelligence Check: 1d20 + 3 + 2 + 2 ⇒ (12) + 3 + 2 + 2 = 19 Includes +2 from Royo and Uli

"I think I'm starting to get the hang of this. This way to the great egress."


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Starfinder Superscriber

Yeah, personally, I imagine the overall population is much larger than I think the designers do, and in my headcanon the society is (or at least was, prior to the start of Season 1) easily in the low six figure range for people. The losses prior to season 1 were both direct and indirect as probably many non-agent employees quit or got laid off after the failure of Jadnura's mission and the ensuing organizational chaos and lack of incoming funding.

To me, the organization is just really really flat and most 'agents' don't have set assignments or daily tasks the way they would in a corporate or military structure. Agents are basically expendable freelancers that show up whenever they're bored and not usually full time employees nor soldiers. The full time employees and actual soldiers are usually too important or busy to go out on missions. So in the Society it's much easier for normal low level agents to work directly for high level leaders because those leaders just grab whoever is in the waiting room of their lodge looking at the postings. (Or dropped a LFW tag on WorkMonster.abs this morning.)

Possible minor spoiler for Season 2:
In my head canon this lack of 'organization' for the wetworks side of the society was historically always intentional on their part, precisely to try to prevent anyone accusing them of what they're being accused of in Season 2. If they act like a disorganized mess, no one's going to consider them a threat to existing power structures. The fact that they got their ish together for 1-99 and 2-00 has a bunch of people scared.

One thing HMM didn't mention about Venture Captains that I think is important. Venture Captains seem to usually be the equivalent of semi-retired 'agents' that have become full time employees of the Society. It seems from reading that every 'lodge' has at least one Venture Captain. This person is at least nominally 'in charge' of the lodge and decides what kind of missions get done there. Larger lodges (like the Lorespire Complex) seem to require several just to keep the places running. The factions seem to be like 'meta-lodges' in that they're not always tied to a single location but instead to a general 'mission'. I can't remember if their leaders are called 'Venture Captains' but they're effectively the same thing. So, while we don't know precisely how many of them there are, we can venture to say that it's probably a lot. Certainly a lot more than have actually been canonically named.

EDIT: I would also love to play a game babysitting Fitch's Kids. Though, in my head canon, many of her children are adopted (orphans of lost agents) and in many ways she considers all Starfinders her children, so that could get really interestingly huge.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Counterpoint.... Bantrid.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo)

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Male Xenoseeker Halfling Envoy 6 (SP-42/42|HP-38/38|RP-7/7) (EAC22/KAC23) (Saves-5/10/7) (Init-+4) Darkvision 60ft; ER5-Cold,Fire.
Skills:
Acrobatics +11, Athletics +7, Computers +12, Culture +12, Disguise +8, Engineering +12, Intimidate +13, Medicine +12, Perception +8, Piloting +13, Profession-Writer +12, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +11, Survival +2
Stats and Abilities:
Str 9 : Dex 18 : Con 12 : Int 16 : Wis 12 : Cha 18 | Corona Laser Rifle +6 (2d6+6 F) : Static Arc Pistol +8 (1d6+3 E) : Survival Knife +8 (1d4+2 S) | Get 'Em, Clever Feint, Inspiring Boost, Clever Attack

"Maybe it's also Uli," Jin whispers with a wry grin.


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Starfinder Superscriber

My new favorite aphorism is, ‘an observed cooking receptacle on a heating unit never reaches its boiling point.’

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo)

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Male Xenoseeker Halfling Envoy 6 (SP-42/42|HP-38/38|RP-7/7) (EAC22/KAC23) (Saves-5/10/7) (Init-+4) Darkvision 60ft; ER5-Cold,Fire.
Skills:
Acrobatics +11, Athletics +7, Computers +12, Culture +12, Disguise +8, Engineering +12, Intimidate +13, Medicine +12, Perception +8, Piloting +13, Profession-Writer +12, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +11, Survival +2
Stats and Abilities:
Str 9 : Dex 18 : Con 12 : Int 16 : Wis 12 : Cha 18 | Corona Laser Rifle +6 (2d6+6 F) : Static Arc Pistol +8 (1d6+3 E) : Survival Knife +8 (1d4+2 S) | Get 'Em, Clever Feint, Inspiring Boost, Clever Attack

Jindam moves forward to stand by Ra, gun still pointing sharply at the remaining warden and says, "I know that hurt, buddy. He was a big meany, and the other moron is no better. But you can do this! And I promise to give you an extra big band-aid for your booboos if you need it after we're done here."

He makes a rude gesture at the remaining Lore Warden and then sticks out his tongue in defiance.

Inspiring Boost. Ra gets back 16 SP and can't benefit from another one until he rests for 10 minute to regain stamina.


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Starfinder Superscriber

John said on the twitch stream that the repeatability was so you could get multiple perspectives on the candidates before placing your vote.

I'm just guessing, but I'm betting that if they plan on doing this again in future, they'll 'retire' this scenario and replace it with a new one.


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Starfinder Superscriber
Grave Knight wrote:
Wait, are there really no Kobold stats? Don't they specifically mention Kobolds in Pact Worlds under Triaxus?

Nope. Unfortunately, Captain Obvious was sick the day they discussed that planet at the Paizo offices.

There is a 3pp book (or maybe 2, now) that has them. But I'd prefer they be like Dragoncorp™ office managers and HR reps on Triaxus, officially.


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Starfinder Superscriber

That's my count, too. (100/112)

Things I want in AA4.

PC Stuff...
Grippli (unless they're going to be in the Near Space book)
Tengu
Kobolds
Bugbears
Platyparians
Playable Bone Troopers/Corpsefolk (All this talk of the 'no Con' and/or Immunities 'problem' ignores the fact that PC races do NOT have the same stats/abilities/et al as NPC races. This can be worked out. It isn't even that hard.)
Copaxi
The intelligent fungii from Primoria in DS5 (same planet as Scyphozoans).
Something actually weird (I'm not saying you haven't already done that, but we need at least 2 or three really weird things every book).

Monsters...
More Kaiju.
More 'generic' stat blocks (I could handle 1 or two of these in every book).
More non-combat Robots (and if you want to make them domestic droids, have at it)
More Outsiders (Angels and Demons, and Devils, oh my)


Starfinder Superscriber

You had me at, "Anonymity was for cowards."


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Starfinder Superscriber

Obligatory re-request for the new development team to not forget about the 90+ FAQ requests and 278ish posts on this thread.

[cough]FAQ, Please.[/cough]


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Starfinder Superscriber
Quote:
What is there in SFS outside combat, that is valuable to do as a PC? What are my options to be actually useful? Or is it a bad idea to try to be decent at anything besides shooting, healing spells, and science officer?

SFS scenarios are designed to fit inside of a 4 hour window and appeal to as broad a base of players as possible. In general, you can expect in any given scenario to fight between 1-4 traditional combats (though, these can often be avoided or mitigated with creativity or skill use), 0-3 traps, 1-4 'roleplaying' or 'social' encounters (though, these can often turn into combat if handled poorly), 0-2 Starship combats, 0-1 vehicle chases, and 0-6 'skills challenges' (where something hinges on one or more skill uses but doesn't fall into one of the other categories). There's often a 'moral conundrum' thrown in for good measure, usually at or near the end, which is entirely on the player and not really the character (though, many players react to them how they see their characters as reacting, it's still always a player decision).

Personally, since you can be playing these with any random group of 2-5 other yahoos, I tend to swing more towards generalist characters than specialists. I think it's okay to specialize in one thing, but after that, I try to cast as broad a net as possible to try to contribute to as much of the scenario as possible. This is generally what makes Operatives and Envoys such strong SFS characters, because it's very easy for them to do that.

Quote:
To have a useable level of Computers, I need Skill Synergy, which prevents me from having any combat feat until level 3 at the earliest. Without Computers I can't do anything in a spaceship. Even if I made Ts*eki useless on a ship, I can't give zir 3 combat feats at level 1. And Slow is a level 3 spell that I can't get until Mystic 7, or never if I focus on Biohacker. I can get a combat feat at Biohacker 1, but it has to be Longarm Proficiency. (I get the impression weapon focus/proficiency/specialization is a tax that everyone has to take).

You don't have to take skill synergy. You can take a rank in the skill and use it even if it isn't a class skill. You can also switch your theme to one that grants computers as a class skill. Even with it not being a class skill, the DC's on Science Officer actions are overall the lowest of any of the roles, so you can make it work. You can also avoid scenarios with the Starship Tag (a lot of people do) until you get your level of Biohacker and have it as a class skill.

To be clear, you won't get another feat at level 2 if you take Biohacker 1, though. I'm not sure where you got that.

Quote:
Can I make this concept viable at level 1 without replacing the class?

I have seen some really 'bad' builds out there at level 1. They all survived. There's only a handful of level 1 scenarios where there's any serious risk of death unless you Leroy Jenkins your way through it. You'll be fine.

Quote:
So I assume that means I need a gun that isn't nonlethal?

I tend to start every character with either a pulsecaster rifle or pistol and then switch after a game or two using the rebuild rules to let me just trade out the full credits rather than selling. Yes, you'll eventually want a weapon that does nonlethal, but it doesn't necessarily need to be immediamente.

Quote:
Are any of the ranged injection weapons good enough to be worth buying? Do any of them (or any poisons or acids) work on Undead or Constructs? Is there a way to use such a weapon without wasting tons of money? (SFS scenarios don't have any item loot.) It looks like I can choose Needler Pistol or Needler Rifle. (I'm thinking I have to limit myself to Small Arms, after reading this:https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uwto?Are-there-any-good-multi-classing#1 6) The Pistol does as much damage as Keskodai 1's weapon, so hopefully that isn't sucky.

In order...

With Biohacker yes. With any other class it's dubious if injection weapons are 'worth it.'
Acid works on lots of stuff. I can't think of any poisons that work on undead or constructs, but that'll likely change at some point.
There are ways to save money on the build. The conserving fusion is a way to save money. Using expendables found within a scenario first is another way to save money.
Biohackers get proficiency with any weapon with the injection property, that includes the longarm and sniper ones. Once you get biohacker, you aren't limited to the pistol if you don't want to be. (Assuming they don't change that about biohackers when the book comes out.)

Quote:
guess I could switch to Dex 14 and Int 13, and give up a rank in Survival, Profession, or Mysticism. Then I'd also lose 1 from Computers, Culture, Life Sci, Medicine, Physical Sci, and Profession. Would that be better than what I have now?

Of the 3, survival comes up the least often, but it still comes up. I'd definitely drop it before the other two. Or drop computers and avoid any scenarios with the Starship Tag until you can up your Int later. You would lose 1 from those other skills (except Profession, there are Wis based Profession skills, you should probably pick one of those), for now, but unless they change something in the final release, if you go intuitive Biohacker, you'll get your Wis to those skills instead once you get that level.

Quote:
What "other things" does Medicine do? Does it work on poison or disease before level 3?

Medicine Skill. In addition, there are a number of scenarios where succeeding on one or more medicine checks will mean the difference between partial and full successes. Yes, it can be used on poisons and disease at level 1, but it only provides bonuses to the saves (always), not an outright cure.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Yes, Thank you so much, HMM. I remembered I had questions about it, but I just got out of a test and can't remember anything right now.


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Starfinder Superscriber

In addition to Dracomicron's mentions, which are where I'd start, Soldier + Drone Mech using a combat drone that focuses on heavy explode weapons could work. Mystic + Soldier or Mystic + Solarian could give you a sort of Paladin or Ranger type build, if you planned for it. Operative + Envoy, while having a bunch of stuff that steps on one another's toes, could also be made to work, if you went the sniper operative route and paired it with envoy's unwieldy happy abilities. Same for Technomancer + Operative and the gun magus type abilities under TM.


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Starfinder Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
That wasn't true of the rider in pathfinder 3.5. The only thing a rider could not do was full attack in melee, but only because they would have to wait for the mount to get where it was going and then attack. An archer could full attack, a caster not worried about the concentration check could cast etc.

... You are correct. I have been wrong about that for 19 years. That explains a lot about why people have been running it that way. So, thank you.

I also think I see in the mounted combat rules in the AA3 how it works similarly for creature companions (you still spend the move as the character per the Survival skill, but that counts as granting the mount a move action per AA3 p.141 which it spends on movement per AA3 p140).

I still think this is unfair to drone mechanics that don't take the riding saddle, but I understand the rules argument now. They still get extra (effective) actions compared to drone + mechanic without it. But apparently this is intentional.

So, you're right, I'm wrong, and I withdraw.


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Starfinder Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
If you know how they're going to go crazy sure, but when do we ever get that kind of notice?

1. You're going on a mission to this moon where civilians are rioting. It's going to take a few days to get there via Drift, but it's important that if things go south, you don't murder any of the civilians, so we are providing you with merciful fusion seals.

2. One of the local predators on the planet you're heading to is a swarm of insect like creatures that migrate and eat everything in their path. We're providing you with some AoE fusion seals to help you deal with them should you run across them.

3. This mission is covert and it's important that you can get in and out of the embassy without being noticed. Here are some glamour fusion seals to help you sneak your weapon past the guards. You leave tomorrow.

4. I'm not going to lie to you here, maggots, the brass are sending you into literal honest to Weydan hell. But they want you to be able to hurt the devils when you get there, so here are a bunch of holy fusion seals. The armory will expect you to bring them back, dead or alive, at the end of this mission.

In a well run organization with actual intelligence and planning, there are a lot of mission briefings where giving out fusion seals would make sense. Not all of them, certainly, but enough that there would be a market for the seals.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Ooooooohhhhh.....

Sucks that I'm in class during the live showtime. But I can't wait to catch the re-run.

If you don't mind, I'd love to have the following questions asked.

1. When can we expect the Izalguun always available to start?

2. Will we ever get another 'Alien Archive' boon? (Obligatory)

3. Any spoilers or hype you have for the upcoming Sangoro's Bulwark scenarios?

4. When will 2-00 be allowed for the online region?

5. Goblin Boon when? (Obligatory)


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Starfinder Superscriber

It's not 7 GMs, it's more like 30. I just counted 7 different interpretations. He's one of the GMs in the lodges I play/run in, and, as far as I can tell, the only one with his interpretation. Every time it comes up for discussion he accuses people of being irrational or unreasonable for daring to disagree with him.

Being called stupid over this item has made me want to quit playing/running more than once. It's what led me to start the thread in the OP forum that led to this one. I know of at least two people that left the online community over the argument. It's hurting the game to leave it in limbo.

So, again, FAQ.


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Starfinder Superscriber

I don't know which of the many positions you're referring to, but I, for one, am not on team 'pointy fists'. I am on team, 'this item doesn't give you anything it doesn't explicitly say it does.'

It doesn't say it removes the archaic tag, so it doesn't.
It doesn't say you're always armed, so you aren't.
It doesn't say it gives you the 'Natural Attack' racial trait or that it works like the racial trait, so things that apply to that racial trait do not apply to this item unless they apply to all unarmed strikes.

It says it gives you a bite attack. It says how that bite attack works. It uses completely different language to describe that bite attack than any of the 'Natural Attack' racial traits use. That makes it its own thing.

Even without the stuff the racial traits give, it's a heck of a lot for a 315cr level 3 item and still one of the best items in the game. Certainly the best item for the price. I'm not going to also give it a bunch of other stuff on your word. If someone managed to convince all (or even a plurality) of the other GM's to read it that way, sure.

But since no one has done that. FAQ.


Starfinder Superscriber

In case this isn't meant to be common knowledge.:
Someone talked about it in a QnA at one of the Gencon panels on twitch. That's where I got the timeline and my answer. I just can't remember if they said they definitely would or wouldn't have the 'encounters' stories on top of their 'meet the iconics' articles. I'm pretty sure it was Rob that answered the question and I *think* it was in the 'Paizo 2019 and Beyond' panel, but may have been the 'Secrets of the Pact Worlds' one. Those twitch panels are awesome.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Oh, and to that point. The 'silly' sub-plot in 1-1 - 1-14, and the one in 1-9 are actually pretty heady.

Ziggy's Story:
His obsession with the pop band is about dealing with pain and trauma, both physical and psychological. He's using music as a coping mechanism for both. It's actually a pretty sad story once you see the subtext.

Live Exploration Extreme:
This is actually a pretty amazing critique on modern media and 'reality' culture. The fact that it's a literal 'Ghoul' acting as the director is straight up genius. This scenario is high art masquerading as silly. It is the reason I started playing SF.


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Starfinder Superscriber
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
True. I will have to read those ones you mentioned to get a feel for more serious sci-fi (except for TMIAHM, I heard that was one of Heinlein's worst, or at least most obnoxiously libertarian).

All of Heinlein's work is complex and multi-layered and as often as not used to critique his own positions as support them. That's part of why he has won so many awards. It's unfortunate that it is also the target of a lot of reductionism, especially by people that want to use it to push an agenda. While that particular book isn't my favorite (I prefer Stranger in a Strange Land), it's pretty dang 'serious', as is much of his work. (Despite the pulp-sci-fi cover art.)

I mean, there's seriously a lot of serious sci-fi out there. Even the silly stuff is often meant to have a point. Space Opera isn't just about weird looking aliens having a singing competition.


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Starfinder Superscriber
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
I'll be honest, part of me wonders if it's a matter of genre convention as well...like fantasy as a genre just appears to have more gravitas than sci-fi from my perspective. When I think sci-fi, I think of Star Wars, which has a whole lot of cheese, but when I think of fantasy I think of Lord of the Rings.

Two words... "Tom Bombadil"

Fantasy, as a genre (even with the 'serious' ones) has a whole mess of silliness. Only some of it is intentional.

To each their own on their preferences. I happen to like Dr Who and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Space Opera both for their serious satire/social commentary on the real world and their silliness. I also happen to like Dune and the Expanse and Old Man's War and Neuromancer and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

You can find what you want to find in any genre. It's not the genre, it's the preconceptions you're bringing to the party.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Meh. Different strokes for different folks. Life is weird. I'm playing a 7ft tall Jellyfish in a game. I love that. Others think that's silly.

such is life.


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Starfinder Superscriber

We can't just move along.

I have an SFS character that I built explicitly around the Ring of Fangs. I haven't played them, because literally every time the item gets mentioned, the exact argument in this 260+ post thread happens.

I'm f*****g sick of this argument. I can't just concede the point and accept the (in just my lodge 7) different GM interpretations as all valid, because I play online, and the differences between the different interpretations means that I would have to spend game time every game re-coding the macros I use for attacks in Roll20 to make them right. When I'm GMing, I feel like I'm either punishing players who use the more liberal interpretations or just wasting time even discussing it for those with the less liberal interpretations. All of the interpretations have valid arguments, we're all just choosing to weigh them differently. When COM comes out, shields are only going to make that worse.

I need one official answer. I don't care what that answer is. I don't care if it's "This item is not legal for Organized Play." or "This item works exactly like Vesk Natural Attack except Y." or "This item has it's own rules, they they interact like this." I just need something that I can point to as a player/GM in SFS and say, "This is how it works. Let's play."

I would have been fine taking the GM consensus if there had been one. There hasn't. So, FAQ.


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Starfinder Superscriber

There isn't another option.

No one has managed to convince anyone that there's a 'one holy interpretation'™. Moses has yet to come down from the mountain and convince anyone that the tablets are real.

Every single person that actually participates in the argument seems to come away more convinced that they're the only correct one.

So, I repeat. FAQ. Please.


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Starfinder Superscriber

I've heard your arguments. I've heard them over and over and over again. I don't agree with you. Repeating them isn't going to make me agree with you.

This text...

"Ring of Fangs wrote:
When you wear this ring, your teeth become long and sharp, giving you a powerful bite attack. You can choose to have your unarmed attacks deal lethal piercing damage, and if you are 3rd level or higher, you automatically gain a special version of the Weapon Specialization feat that adds double your level to the damage of these unarmed attacks (rather than adding your level).

Is different than this text...

Vesk Natural Weapons wrote:
Vesk are always considered armed. They can deal 1d3 lethal damage with unarmed strikes and the attack doesn’t count as archaic. Vesk gain a unique weapon specialization with their natural weapons at 3rd level, allowing them to add 1–1/2 × their character level to their damage rolls for their natural weapons (instead of just adding their character level, as usual).

Nothing you have said thus far as convinced me that rules that apply to the latter automatically apply to the former (or vice versa).

The text is different, therefore the rules are different and don't necessarily inherit the same properties from one another. If they intend for them to be the same, they should have made them the same or they should put out a FAQ saying they're the same. If they intend for them to be the same but with some minor difference(s), they could have said, "Here is the difference, otherwise it works like X." or put out a FAQ that changes the rules to that.

You're assuming they're the same. You have reasons why. I don't think those reasons are correct, but I've been willing to concede, from the beginning, that if that's what the FAQ says I'd be fine with it. I'd also be fine with the FAQ saying that only stellifara can wear it and it does nothing but give them teeth to chew food with. I don't care.

What I'm not fine with is the constant implication that anyone that disagrees with you is arguing for the sake of arguing or being 'nit-picky' or arguing in bad faith every time this comes up. Even if your interpretation is the correct one, which, again, it may be, the fact that there are still several other GMs in this thread with different interpretations, means that it's going to get interpreted differently at different tables until there is a FAQ.

That's the problem. The quoted rule from AA3 doesn't fix that. Your repeated assertions that it does doesn't fix that. I'm only responding to this thread, again, because we still need a FAQ. Saying that we don't while there are still open questions and legitimate disagreement is counterproductive to the purpose of this thread.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Some of them are, yes. I think at least 14 or 15 of them are new (to starfinder) though. Maybe more.


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Starfinder Superscriber

In case any developers come along. I still think we need a FAQ, but since I've already FAQ'd several posts in the thread and can't FAQ them again, I'm just going to post again that I think we need a FAQ.

I don't care what the answer is. I'm just tired of the arguments.


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Female Cyberborn Scyphozoan Technomancer 3 (SP-18/18|HP-19/19|RP-4/4) (EAC13/KAC14) (Saves-2/3/3) (Init-+2) Amphibious; Darkvision 60ft; Blindsense 30ft.
Stats and Skills:
Str 13 : Dex 14 : Con 12 : Int 16 : Wis 10 : Cha 8 | Computers +11, Culture +4, Engineering +9, Life Science +9, Medicine +4, Mysticism +7, Physical Science +9, Piloting +8, Profession-Electrician +11
Attacks and Spells:
Azimuth Laser Rifle +4 (1d8+3 F) : Pulsecaster Pistol +4 (1d4+1 E) : Unarmed Strike +3 (1d3+4 A) | Spell slots - 1st 4/4 : Cache 1/1 Energize Spell 1/1

Bewildered and befuddled, Lauren rushes into the proffered vehicle without bothering to pay much attention to the crowd or her teammates as soon as it arrives. When Diedre asks about her position on the ownership of the she shrugs her feeding tentacles, saying, "Miners is ones whos has paid for it... and Captain Moriko" Though she feels it in her bulb, she's unable to put much conviction into her assertion. She still isn't fully sure of the ramifications of any decision.

For the remainder of the trip, she rides in silence as questions swirl around in her head. A few times, she starts to ask one, but then realizes she has questions about the question and stops herself. She feels like she's looking for some core question that would explain everything and failing. As they arrive at the Embassy, she resigns herself to not understanding, now, in hopes that experience and time will be the teacher she needs.

After arriving at the Embassy...

She gets out with the rest of the party and enters Nor's office near the front of the group. She twists and bows her bell in the standard sign of "Thanks" among her species and sits in the seat as directed.

Assuming Diedre does the playback/commentary thing...

Lauren lets Diedre do most of the talking. When Diedre falters about Garry, she interjects with, "Space Lamprey is still outs there, somewhere. Is bad news. If not for aliens artifact, would bombard Drift Rock and leave dust." When she gets to the part about the alien computers, she adds, "Codes was not reading able. But was very advanced. Special. Most important."

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