Spawn of Rovagug's page

Thank you!

No, I was just needing some clarification from an outside pov on the Ethereal Plane and the Dimension of Dreams.

As for the native outsider rules, I see now where I misinterpreted the mechanics.

Thanks again!

I am currently running this game and I have a player who threw me a curve ball which I can't seem to find the answers to. The issue is they are running a tiefling with the alternate racial trait of being able to see creatures on the Ethereal Plane. While we have not progressed past the initial investigation, this has brought up a couple of concerns for me with this adventure. Specifically...

Any help, advice or rules clarification would be appreciated.

I had a situation come up in the game I ran today where the party wizard with a penchant for Craft: Alchemy used 5 gp worth of gold to boost the spell Infernal Healing with the intent that it would add one to the total hit points healed per round with fast healing 1, effectively doubling the healing power of his spell, for 20 hp of damage healed. I was unsure if that was the authors and game designers intent and couldn't find any clarifications, so I house-ruled that it only added +1 hit point to the total healed over the course of that minute (for a total of 11 hp) with the proviso that I'd look into finding a clarification.

However, after game I've looked through several of my books including the Adventurer's Armory and the Alchemy Manual and can't find anything that helps clear up this nebulous region of rules interactions. As I can see how a ruling one way or the other could have a significant impact upon how much or how little of his resources the wizards devotes to Alchemical Power Components, I'm hoping someone on these boards knows the answer.

Any help or clarification would be most appreciated. :)

Yesterday I went to go check up on what was shipping for my next subscription total and discovered that there nothing listed. I checked again just a few minutes ago and still the same thing - I'm still subscribed, there is just nothing listed for my next subscription shipment. Help?

Spawn of Rovagug wrote:

Is the City of Brass detailed in [...] The Great Beyond?

Yes. Pages 18 and 19-20.

The material there was sparse, and nothing on spy organizations or secret police who might look for wish abuse. Still, nothing claims such a group doesn't exist either, so I'm going to have to add a secret Efreet police force and assassination squad which lurks in the wings. Too egregious an abuse in the wishes and the Efreet breaks the byzantine and tyrannical laws the Grand Vizier and his bureaucracy have put in place over him and he suffers immediate execution by said police force. That's a good check on any abuse, plus the player will suffer the loss of the Efreet as a servant (as well as effectively a feat) in exchange for a number of wishes. I'm ok with that balance-wise.

He hasn't taken the Arcane Discovery, but he is working on learning the True Names of as many creatures as possible. He's playing a Chelaxian Devil-binder and I'm running a pretty flexible, sand-box style, player driver campaign. I'm usually open to player ideas and input, I just may make them jump through some difficult hoops to accomplish what they want. An Efreet's name will be difficult to come by to say the least, and at a minimum he will have to make some hard research or interrogation rolls to accomplish this seeing how rife for abuse this particular outsider can be. While I don't dislike the heavy handed 'kill squad' solution, I prefer to use such methods as last-resort options. Still, it will be on the table as soon as he starts abusing the power. The Malik idea is cool - I think that might be the way to go, *if* the Malkik notices the abuse of his underling. The more heinous the number or type of wish(es), the more likely the Malik takes action. Might make the Summoner think twice about calling upon the Efreet. As for the Efreet attacking, I was considering that as well, but the True Name really leaves the Efreet vulnerable (though the Plane Shift and Fire Elemental aid is a good solution to that impediment). And it definitely sounds like I'll have to read up on the City of Brass and their hierarchy and policing forces for ideas on who may seek to quash such mortal abuse of the Efreet's power. Is the City of Brass detailed in Legacy of Fire? Or The Great Beyond?

At least he's not chain binding.

Do you mean doing something like using the Wish to cast a Greater Planar Binding Spell to bind a more powerful Outsider to his service? I've been pondering that potential problem as well...

I'm currently GMing a game where one of the players (who is playing a wizard) informed me of a potentially unbalancing (yet clever) way of getting wishes on a daily basis at 11th level: take the True Name Arcane Discovery and summon forth an Effrit to dole out wishes whenever the character wants.

Looking at the wording it's clear the True Name acts as a Planar Binding spell, so while the player was expecting to get 3 wishes a day I realized after the first service was completed (the first wish granted) it could immediately return to where it came from. I feel reasonably justified in curtailing the number of wishes granted to one.

However, I dislike the entire idea of an 11th level wizard with a daily wish-granting servitor, though I think the route to doing so is clever and don't want to say no just out of hand. Ingenuity should be rewarded... but abuse should be curtailed.

If the player decides to go through with the daily wish-a-thon I want to make him seriously regret trying to blackmail an Effrit so I ask my fellow GM's and players: Do any of you have any ideas or advice on how an Effrit might plan and prepare to gain revenge upon his tormentor? Could the Effrit eventually change it's true name, and if so, how? What sort of plan might an Effrit exact to free itself from the one who knows it's true name? Murder, or something more heinous?

Thank you!

Last week I asked Customer Service through the messageboards if I had enough time to change my order to included a subscription copy of Mythic Adventures instead of just the book (since I wanted the pdf and my order hadn't shipped yet) and a CS rep suspended it until I added it to my order. I did so, added it to the ship with my next order (the current one) and let customer service know that I had made the changes for my order. It was taken off of suspended and placed back onto pending, and I thought it was done. Now I'm told I didn't hit "ship with pending order" when I'm fairly certain I did.

If you look at my order you'll see I had a Mythic Adventures shipped - I was trying to change that copy to a subscription before it did (my subscription to the Pathfinder RPG "starts" with Mythic Adventures), but apparently that didn't happen.

So, now my question is do I need to buy the pdf of MA since it seems that CS didn't change my order of MA to a subscription copy before it shipped?

Last week I slipped in a Pathfinder RPG subscription onto my order at the last minute so I could get the Mythic Adventures pdf, and yesterday I received the email notice that my order is shipping, but alas, there is no Mythic Adventures pdf. Help?

Quick question: I added the Mythic Adventures book (only) to my subscription order, but I'd like to add the Pathfinder RPG subscription (starting with Mythic Adventures) so I can get the pdf. Is it too late to add the subscription to my order (without double charging me for Mythic Adventures) so I can get the pdf when it ships?

Here's my take on the situation for redeeming Ileosa:

So in other words, way beyond the scope of most campaigns.

Ok, Thassilon question time:

Looking at the map in the Inner Sea World Guide on Page 213 of the Lost Empires of Golarion, it appears that Haruka, the domain of the Runelord of Sloth, contains the the pyramid of Sorshen of Eurythnia (aka Korvosa). Is this an obvious error or is there some interesting territorial-dispute story there? I only noticed this because I was trying to identify in which domain the valley of Mundatei lay (it appears to be on the borders of Haruka and Shalast) for an upcoming side-quest for my campaign.

We'll probably get a bit more detail into the Magnimar part of the adventure, yes. And I suspect both the townhouse AND the sawmill will have the maps re-drawn... but mostly because we want maps that fit half pages better. Being able to redraw those maps to be a bit more realistic as houses and sawmills is a bonus.

Can I put in my $.02 and suggest Blando? Those maps of his that I have seen are very well constructed, a treat for the eyes, easy to interpret and make sense (even if the structure itself is fantastic).

Very Cool! I'm looking forward to this more than S&S or JR, and not just because I'm a big fanboy of Thassilon and all the Rune-inspired goodness of Varisia. I'm also stoked to see more on Magnimar coming out to help flesh out the first major city-state of the Pathfinder setting and what role the Pathfinder lodge plays in the region.

Just wish it had come out a little earlier than this tho (as I conclude the Skinsaw Murders tonight). :)

Having just about finished running The Skinsaw Murders (the players face Xanesha tonight - They all know they're in for a hell of a fight and have been researching and planning) I have to note that there was a decided difference in the ease of GM work between the first half of the adventure (Sandpoint environs and Foxglove manor) and the second half (Magnimar). Besides brief descriptions of how the Magnimar city watch was handling the situation, I found the maps of the townhouse, sawmill and shadow clock to be hard to interpret or unrealistic in design (especially the sawmill). I'm hoping (since I believe I saw Vic mention something about new maps) that these will be corrected in this edition, as well as a little bit more fleshing-out of the city's reaction and handling of the murders. In addition, I'd really like to see a few red herrings or a list of rumors for PC's to come across and follow up on, as well as a bit more information upon Magnimar's history. Any chance we'll see something like this?

I'd really like to see info regarding cultural norms and taboos in each chapter; something that gives each Lost Kingdom a distinctly different feel than the current civilization that rules the area. In regards to Osirion, I'd really like to see more info on the elemental clans, the Dominion of the Black (Nyarlathotep baby!), and the Four Pharoahs of Ascension (just how great was their power?). This could be in the form of NPC's, artifacts, spells or monsters. In regards to Ghol-Gan, I'd like to see what it looked like geographically *before* the Eye of Abendengo hit the area, along with more info on the astrology cultist in later years who committed mass suicide (Cult of Starry Wisdom?) and their connection to the ancient kingdom of the Cyclops (who, if memory serves, were also known for their strange foresight). As for Thassilon, I want to see... EVERYTHING! Rune magic, the Rune Law, the rise of Lissala (and the Peacock Spirit and other religions of the ancient empire of Xin), the major (and lesser) monuments, the geography, the rulers (more on Xanderghul please!), the castes, the society, the rise of sin within the empire (and what role did demons, the personification of sin, play?), etc.

I'm led to understand that this new edition will be changed to reflect Paizo's greater understanding of AP's, but I'm interested to know if this Anniversary edition will be updated to include new material from the RPG line of products in a grand Transmutation worthy of the last Runelord of Greed, or if this is going to be "as similar" to the original as possible, but utilizing Pathfinder rules and builds?

Thank you Paizo for listening! So excited for this!

The rune side of Thassilon's magic hasn't been ignored. We did a big article about it back in Pathfinder #5, actually. It's a big enough subject that it would have been TOO much to put into Inner Sea Magic. The sin magic stuff is simple and one page long, so that was easy to get in there.

Maybe someday if we do something more with Thassilon, though, we'll do more about their runes.

Yes Please! More on Thassilon and their magic, please! I've been looking for something to really make the magic of Thassilon something special for my RotRL campaign and while the article in Pathfinder #5 is great as a jumping off point, I was hoping for a bit more on the history of the tri-partite rune language, the goddess Lissala (and the Peacock Spirit), the Rune Law, Old Xin, and how rune magic was corrupted and/or perverted into being associated with sin.

I'm not a subscriber to the campaign setting line yet ordered this book since I'm running RotRL currently, but I'm really curious what sort of treatment sin magic received: is it just a clarification and re-hashing of previous 3.5 materials, is their more flavor text describing the differences in the mystic paradigms and philosophies of drawing upon sin to fuel your magic, or are there any new mechanical differences?

I'm also curious about Varisian tattoo magic and any correlation between it and the rune magic that it (initially) appears to have been birthed by; what are the key differences between this new magic system and say, the Inscribe Rune feat? Anything alike?

Triga wrote:

Any one else think this is in order? I would buy one right away.

I'd buy one, but I think most of us already have the books here, so I am not so confident this would sell all so well.

Also, it'd need some reediting and extra content.

Overall, I'd prefer new products set in Varisia with ties-ins, and more Kaer Maga, than a reprint.

I'm all about a new consolidated, updated and expanded hardcover version as well and I think it would be a big seller - I've been asked by several friends and game store acquaintances if I was interested in selling (one at above cover cost) my first 3 issues of Pathfinder.

I ran a side-quest for my campaign yesterday where the characters left Sandpoint to go hunt down the Sandpoint Devil within the Pit on Devil's Platter. Sad to say, the Devil left the party with two fatalities and a serious maiming (the character lost his right arm - he was killed, but had 2 hero points to spend to survive).

And so the Legend of the Sandpoint Devil grows...

Ah! I see what I was doing wrong: for some reason I was thinking that both target effects had to be applied rather than choosing between one or the other. D'oh! Much better effects among the Heal and Life categories now that I understand what the Targeting Restriction line should read as. Thanks for the clarification!

Going through the WoP section in UM, I noticed that all of the Healing effects have a Target Restriction of Personal on them; is this correct? If so, it radically weakens the Healing effects and makes a wordspell of Soothing Touch near worthless ("I can only stabilize myself when I'm dying, yet I have to be conscious in order to cast a spell..."). I also noticed this Target Restriction on the Life effect of Purify. Is this correct as well?

I just noticed that the "cone" target word is level 0. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like it could get remarkably powerful in the hands of low level PCs. I'm trying to find something that disallows it, but it seems like you would be able to combine, for example, Acid Burn with Cone to create a cantrip that deals 1d3 damage to everything in a 10 foot cone. Am I reading something wrong, or is this not as powerful for a cantrip as it seems at first glance?

Looking at it, an 'un-boosted' cone is 3 squares on a battle mat. So doing 1D3 acid damage on *up to* 3 medium/small targets, who each get a Reflex save for 1/2 damage, doesn't seem particularly overpowered for a 0-level wordspell to me. Sort of like a very weak acidic version of burning hands.

That's a fragment we never developed. There's a couple of those in the first volume of Pathfinder. The city of Melesa doesn't exist. Xin-Edasseril was somewhere in the Ironbound Archipelago though, so its likely located on one of those islands and its stones were perhaps "gutted" for the city of Halgrim.

Ah! I suspected that there were some changes in Thassilon when it described Gastash's fertile holdings around Korvosa in the same article. Thanks for the clarification and the alternate city idea.

In RotRL #1, in the Thassilon chapter, it gives each of the domains of Thassilon a brief summary, and under the Edasseril heading it claims that Xin-Edasseril has been gutted in modern times for the stone in order to build the city of Melesa nearby. Yet having looked at numerous maps of Varisia (including THE MAP of the Inner Sea) I can't find any listing of Melesa anywhere.

Am I missing something or is this an oversight on the part of the various authors?

I'm currently running a RotRL campaign and having received Ultimate Magic, I immediately took a liking to the Words of Power chapter (which could have something to do with my love of Ars Magica's magic system) and want to incorporate it into my campaign. So I'm throwing this out there to others who are interested in the Words of Power rules and have played/are playing/have read RotRL for their input and/or ideas.

My first thought is to incorporate the new magic system as a deeper understanding of the Thassalonian runes of power developed by Old Xin and later expanded upon and codified by his Runelords. The runes themselves are described as derived from the language of creation, so I figure it's a perfect mesh for the campaign. I mean, if inscribing runes upon the flesh can alter a person's lifeforce (i.e. Inscribe Rune feat), what might speaking them in the proper sequence and intonation do?

Yet the language itself presents a hurdle in that it is a dead, three part construct based upon positive, neutral and negative symbols, so the chances of a modern speaker actually being able to utilize it are next to nil. So this brings up a problem: How do the casters in the group have the chance to learn it and utilize it?

I figure they need a primer or two and a good dictionary, or someone fluent in spoken Thassalonian to instruct them; luckily, the campaign gives me both at the Therrasic Library with the Clockwork Librarian and the volumes of lore housed there.

However, I'm not sure when to actually incorporate it into the campaign and the additional question of how much to give my players. Here's my initial thought on how I might handle that:

I figure the library will be a good time to hint at the system and to field test it in my campaign by giving Mokmurian a few words to play around with instead of spells. In the library itself the casters could uncover some of the basic words and maybe a low-level effect word, and learn from the Clockwork Librarian how to pronounce (use) them properly, yet I'm thinking that Runeforge would be where the real trove of rune magic lies.

My idea is that within Runeforge a truer understanding of the spoken rune could be found among the Lords of Sin lab notes. I'm thinking I could scatter different types of words among the various labs of Runeforge, matching their primordial sin (and/or school) with the most appropriate area for it to be found in (Death effects among the Ravenous Crypts, Concealing effects among the Shimmering Veils, etc.). Yet I'm also thinking that some of the more exotic stuff (Gravity, Time, Power effects) can only be found in Xin-Shalast; specifically, I'm thinking at the Pinnacle of Avarice, where Leng seeps down into this dimension and space/time is corrupted.

This is just my first thought of how to incorporate this new system of magic into the RotRL campaign, but if anyone else has any idea or comments on it, I'd love to hear them. It helps stimulate my imagination when I see it from different angles.

Personally, I was pleased to see that Cha was the chosen stat to increase the Ki pool of the ninja class. As someone else pointed out, it takes stage presence to make people look where you want, and Wis doesn't do that. I also like the idea of Ki not just being connected with one stat - sort of a Yin/Yang thing. One is a passive force (Wis: focused on the within; an introvert) while the other is an active force (Cha: focused on the without; extrovert). Not a perfect analogy, I know, but Cha makes far more sense to me for the ninja than Wis.

Just my opinion.

Theoretically...

-For PFS (if I wanted to play, which I don't) I'd want the GM to change things very little or not at all; so a 0.

-For PF modules I'd want the GM to have as much flexibility as possible; so a 5.

-For an PF AP I'd want the GM to follow the storyline but add some red-herrings, side-quests and personalized mini-adventures; so a 3 (maybe a 4).

But I haven't played a PC in about 3 or 4 years (sad, I know, but my skills are in demand for GMing) so I'm a bit biased and skewed when it comes to such things. :)

It's not changing the rules on a whim that's the problem, necessarily; it's whether the DM lets the players respond appropriately. Don't like Knowledge checks? Fine, but tell your players before they waste their skill points. The players come to the game with a set of expectations based on the rules set you claim to be running, and arbitrarily violating those expectations is...well, it makes having fun a lot harder as a player.

I absolutely agree that letting the players know of your preferences and game style before play are not only appropriate, but wise to announce if you are to have a fun game. Players will know what to expect by the tone and flavor of a campaign and a smart GM can also help make suggestions in character choices during creation that help their players (especially inexperienced ones) to have more fun in the campaign.

And personally I would never dream of removing Knowledge skills from the game as a GM - no, they are far (FAR!) too useful in directing a storyline or helping clueless players who aren't putting the pieces of the mystery together at 1am in the morning. :)

lovecraft .......so hard to read ......but so dame good .......but not before bed time......

Are you kidding? That's the best time to read Lovecraft, especially his Dream Cycle stuff like the Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath. And I have found his Dreamlands creatures and locations to be easier to translate to a fantasy game than other creations of his.

i got one should i worry about the other elder gods and such or is it not worth the reading to add to my game?

It really depends upon what you want for your game, but personally, I suggest reading all the Lovecraft you can, if for no other reason than inspiration.

Mostly, it's your game and up to you whether you want any of the other great old ones to even exist on your world. :)

mmmmmmmmmm thats really good ...............

i will now shamelessly steal that from you

and again thank you for your input

It's not stealing if it is given freely. :)

And you're welcome. Anytime you have a question in regards to the Mythos, just holler.

I understand the need for a GM to control the game but to me the players should have the same opportunity. After all, what is a GM with no players? As GM I can control a lot of things but I have to play the same game as the PCs. I can't decide Knowledge Checks aren't part of my game as GM yet still have my players invest skill pints in Knowledge. I can't decide as GM to not use initiative but have my players select Initiative based feats. Players and GM, I believe, need to be using the same rulebook so I as GM don't get to overrule it at my whim.

Any GM who decides to arbitrarily remove game mechanics or override the rules in such a fundamentally blatant way is not a GM I'd want to play with. That is taking the role too far - the game has rules for a reason. And I wasn't talking about changing the rules, I was discussing what is in the GM's purview - NPC reactions in a tactical situation. Players should only get to dictate that when they have Dominate Monster going (or some other similar effect).

However, in regards to GM's changing the rules, I believe that if a GM has a serious problem with the RAR then they should propose changes to their group that work, are balanced and has a rationale behind it. And players should have the right to ask and question why rules are changed, and to express displeasure at changes they disagree with in an adult manner. Ultimately though it is the GM's decision. The power to change the rules should never, EVER be left to players alone.

As for overruling the rules on a whim, I do it all the time - when I roll dice behind the screen. If I feel that my players are getting trounced through bad die rolls on their part, I will throw a few bad die rolls on my own, even if they are nat 20's. This is to help preserve the story and the fun and enjoyment of the players, not to show them up or lord it over them.

One of the first things I learned as a GM is I can kill the player characters on a whim. I can have their 1st level PC's "randomly" attacked by horde of angry ogres, or the master assassin in town take a serious dislike to them and poison the whole lot (just in case). But that sure as heck isn't fun for anyone except the power-tripping GM-wannabe.

GMing is all about finesse - how many balls can you keep in the air while distracting your audience enough to temporarily steal away with their mundane concerns? Rules are a science, but running a game is Art.

cthulhu's bounds i was going to use the vaults things from "into the darklands" this one being held together by the faith in the gods when the people stop having faith in the gods they lose there power and cthulhu gets free and that what the under-folk and more so the aberrations are working toward kill/taking over/in slaving the faiths

Destroying faith is an incredibly hard thing to do. Hope is hard to crush. Doing it on a global scale would be nigh impossible. Perhaps, instead of hinging upon the loss of faith in the gods, the cultists plan instead to "awaken" the innocent masses to the truth of their cosmic insignificance by amplifying the very power that drew them to worship mighty Cthulhu - his Call.

If you read the Call of Cthulhu you'd remember that his psychic calling drove numerous people to commit suicide or to go mad when heard by the more sensitive type of people in the world - artists, dreamers and psychics. Perhaps the tsochar may seek to enhance this call through some great plan or design, so that when all those peoples of the surface hear the calling of the great old one and understand the truth of how insignificant they and their gods are, that this causes massive riots, murders, wars and the collapse of civilization, weakening the various holy (and unholy) sites that act as loci for a massive binding seal that keeps the great lord in his death-like state.

Just a thought.

If I ever encounter a player who is going to challenge the reactions of the NPC's and thinks they know all the motivations of said NPC's, then I would sit him down outside of the game, listen to his concerns and then politely, but firmly explain two things: First, as a GM my rule is law. Period. It overrides everything in the Core Rulebook. In any game book. I create the world, I control the gods, the seas, the weather, the animals, the people, the dimensions, everything. I am the Game Master. If I want my goblins to stand their ground and fight, they will. If I want them to run away, they will. But no player will dictate to me how I will run *my* game, because as the job title says, I am the master of the game. And second, the one rule that sums up the entire game - Have Fun. If they aren't having fun, and I can't address those concerns with my GM style, then they should move on to another group. However, that rule applies to the Game Master as well. If I as the GM am not having fun and having players challenging my depictions of creatures because it's not as it is in the book, then why the heck do I want to invest my time and money into running a game for a bunch of people who can't appreciate the effort I put forth? It's not like the vast majority of GM's out there are getting paid to entertain the players - so why put up with it?

Just my 2 cents.

I like what I see. Various levels of "it's there if you look hard enough". I personally prefer a mix of using published material with a hidden spin. I almost always try to keep it in the background when I run a game, but I'm currently running a RotRL campaign and I think I'll be increasing the Lovecraftian elements (which will add more mystery and menace, I hope). I don't just mean the cosmic-horror influence either - I personally love his depictions of the various antiquated and insular (and many times, degenerate) communities in rural New England.

Any GM's come up with interesting Lovecraftian twists or depraved cults which might pop their heads up Varisian?

Here Are a couple of rough sketches of some ideas I'm working on...

-Grubber's Hermitage: A group of insular varisian fishing families who don't like outsiders poking into their affairs. (screams "Shadow over Innsmouth" to me but I'm going with a slightly different approach) Named after the strange hermit who lives in isolation upon the southern spur of rock, the fishermen keep to the north edge, plying the waters and worshiping Gozreh at a small cliff-side shrine.
+Reality: The group of somewhat inbred varisians are a tribe that have been "awakened" to the worship of the great old ones (and who all bear the hideous scars of that awakening upon their skulls) by their ancient raunie, a seer who long ago fell under the psychic influence of creatures trapped beneath Kaer Maga (the Drowned Levels). Years ago she led her people to the sea, to the tip of a ruined Thassalonian complex and the deathless dreams of its prisoners. However, standing in her way is the mad barnacle grubber, the strange hermit who was driven to isolation by the voices of the dead (oracle of Pharasma - waves mystery) and who guards the underwater entrance to the ruins because the dead tell him that "the dead must stay dead."

-Windsong Abbey: Built upon the Lost Coast, this beautiful gothic sandstone structure is renowned for the strange and eerie tunes that sing through it's halls when the wind blows. Indeed, music seems to always fill the air here as the various faiths sing their praises at all hours. However, at night, when the mists from the coast begin to creep across the land and the deep reds, blues and greens of the stained glass are lit from within by the dozens of candles held by choristers singing their hymns, the beauty of the scene can only be be described as haunting. Under the watchful eyes of the charming yet stern Masked Abbess (a worshiper of Shelyn who hides her own features for the sake of others since she was not blessed with a pleasing appearance) the various cloisters of nuns and monks see to the local farmers needs when not engaging in spiritual and philosophical debate with each other.
+Reality: Built upon the ruins of a hellstorm flume, the minor runewell ensconced below flared to life with the awakening of Karzoug. This did not go unnoticed by the Abbess, who, as all abbots and abbesses of the past, knew of the secret chambers beneath the abbey and the hidden trove of forbidden lore stored their. However, her motives do not coincide with Shelyn, as she is a secret worshiper of the Peacock Spirit, long since converted to its worship after having uncovered blasphemous tomes locked away below. With a handful of willing converts (and a number of murders of those who were not willing), the Abbess has spent the past 5 years researching the mysteries and scrolls available to her in secret, gazing within the bubbling depths of the runewell and preparing her followers for what is to come. All the signs seem to indicate that something is awakening - something the Peacock Spirit wishes to come to pass. However, a fat monk of Cayden Cailean who tends the winery and fields surrounding the Abbey, has noted the changes in some of the nuns and after the first few disappearances, began to suspect that all is not right within the hallowed halls. More and more has he turned to his cups to wash away the worry that something evil has taken root here.

-The Peacock Spirit: A creature of such blinding beauty that shields its face from the gaze of creatures who would die of shame at their own unworthiness, the lore of the Peacock Spirit tells of how it came into the universe from elsewhere, cast out by beings jealous of it's beauty. When it fell through into this reality, the transition shattered its perfect form into a thousand fragments of unearthly beauty.
+Reality: Nothing more than another Mask of the Crawling Chaos.

More will come as the campaign progresses as the players are still only on Burnt Offerings.

Being a long-time fan of the Cthulhu Mythos, I'm curious how many other GM's out there incorporate the monsters and dark lore concerning it into their own games and to what extent?

For future reference (in case you aren't at a computer), thunderstones are described in the Core Rulebook on page 160 under Special Substances and Items and listed on page 158 under the same heading.

Ahem. one word for you:

Ptolus.

+1

being new to pathfinder, who is this ameiko kaijutsu?, i assume she is from an early ap, also what is savage tides, i spent about 15 years away from dnd/pathfinder and am not familiar with it.

Ameiko Kaijutsu is a Minkai (asiatic) noble-turned rebellious tavern owner in the town of Sandpoint in the first AP Rise of the Runelords. During the course of the first adventure the characters have a chance of saving her from a nefarious fate.

And welcome back. :)

Woo hoo! I can't wait to see what's in the works for Miss Minkai - flights from distant foreign lands to unsettled shores, unrest and turmoil and bleak omens, dark backroom imperial politics, and a destiny that can't be avoided.

My mind is suddenly flashing back to Clan Wars. Ah, good times. Good times.

So with that said, will there be any Thassilonian/Runelord connection in Jade Regent, even as background or a setting in the first adventure?

And what about those runelords? Any of them besides Ol' bumpy-head gonna get outta bed anytime soon? Like 2011 soon?

If a person has access to the Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide, pages 39 to 42 has a good list of music that would more than likely be appropriate to Carrion Crown.

And I have to second the Ravenous Soundtrack. Been creeping out players with that one for years.

While it will be sometime yet before I reach the end of this AP, I've already begun brainstorming plans for an Expedition to Sarkomand and the nefarious plots of the Denizens of Leng. Towards this end I seeded the campaign with character hooks and vague mysteries that involve the machinations of the Black Ships in the Varisian Gulf. And part of their plans will undoubtedly include Bakrakhan, the Polymorph Plague, Hollow Mountain and the major runewell secured there.

After just discovering the Jade Regent AP is in the works and that it starts off in Varisia, I hope that it involves Ameiko Kaijutsu in some manner. My players really love that NPC (I'm currently running RotRL and she has been very helpful to her rescuers and friends, the PC's). And as a long-time fan of the L5R RPG, hearing about all the oriental themed fluff and crunch that's in the works has gotten me salivating.

Because Golarion just needs more oni. ;)

I'm curious - will the Council of Thieves Adventure Path have a player's guide like the previous four? 'Cause I can't seem to find one listed on the website. Or is it that the Pathfinder Companion book, Cheliax: Empire of Devils, is going to be the equivalent? (I have found the player's guides *very* helpful for giving guidelines for what sort of characters are most appropriate or useful for the game, as well as hints or interesting flavor for the campaign.)

Just curious: Where is Glimmerhold located in Golarion? Is it in the Mindspin Mts, the Five Kings, the Menador range, or somewhere else completely?

I would actually consider 'playtesting' legendary games kineticist as a (extremely loose) way to see how a class that focuses more on spell attacks and dcs works against the chassis in paizos kineticist. Obviously there are a ton more factors, and legendary kineticist might be a bit overtuned while paizos is maybe undertuned, but it could be a fun comparison.

That was my original intent with this, but people were more interested in arguing over homebrew vs 3rd party.

I would agree with you, but most tables I have played at don't like using 3rd party materials to replace officially released materials. While I will at my table, you should assume that official trumps 3rd party. Not that they will coexist.

Seppukumon wrote:

You mean the ones who asked for the class to be ported over want it to feel like it used to? Shocking.

Oh yeah cuz that's how balance is achieved.

Wait it's not.

Not very shocking though

Very easy to balance it while keeping the same feel.

Just because you can't see that doesn't make it not true.

You mean the ones who asked for the class to be ported over want it to feel like it used to? Shocking.

I mean, the playtest is the time to complain the most, and I'm mainly keeping it here, and only then because no one was interested in actually playing along with the prompt of the thread.

Which wasn't is it as powerful, but how do the comparative playstyles feel on the table.

Ignoring the semantics argument only one person actually answered.

But if you want the current version scrapped that's your perogative. Just don't be surprised if some people state that they like where current playtest is heading and just want to see some basic changes to better realize it.

There are people who will like anything, that's why I said in my original post, if this is near how it will be when released I am sticking with the Legendary Kineticist for my players.

Same damage means nothing when the damage between the two systems isn't the same nor health values. Plus, that's base damage. What 1e kineticist was functioning at base even half the time.

But it you want to remove most of the classes versatility. Locking it mostly be to single Target or self buffs and completely focus on blast's I guess that's an option.

One I don't expect to happen. Because it would require a complete rewrite. While revision happens often, I don't think I've seen a complete and utter change to that extent yet.

I still maintain 1e was a fundamentally flawed and broken system and should never receive anything more than a nod for lore reasons.

You seem confused, infusions still used base damage, and often used half base damage on success. At the cost of your level in hit points. Composite blasts did 2d6 instead of 1d6 per level, but cost (2*lvl) in burn damage, so that wasn't an all day every day ability. That is without any other augment on it.

2e is just as broken and flawed as 1e, just in different ways.

Yes, they should do a full rewrite, playtesting is THE time to do full rewrites, and no you don't need to remove versatility to balance it, you just add a resource to limit the number of uses of the versatile features. Focus points, a burn pool similar to reagents or spell slots, etc.

They want to change it because the pf1e design has no actual place in 2e biome so it must be changed.

Obviously given the feedback on this forum this won't be the final version of the class for this edition.

That's not true at all, there are clear ways to take something from 1e and translate it in 2e terms. This is why we still have things like power attack, which itself is just vital strike from 1e except that it multiplies on a crit.

You don't HAVE to change it in its entirety when there is a clear way to do it in the new terms that doesn't break it, and something being broken works both ways, overpowered and under. They have focus spells, those are clear perfect uses for infusions instead of overflow which would remove the infinite use excuse for it to be so underwhelming in what it can do, they have drained or stunned for burn as an optional consequence for overchanneling in desperate situations, they have the same cones lines columns bursts and auras that can be used for form infusions, they have new more specific terms for status effects to be used for substance infusions, put flourish on it to make it once per turn but don't make its main thing provoke AoO, use con for attack or bonus damage so that it has SOME use outside of DCs and 1 ability that lets you use it to name a number of creatures to not be effected by an aura.

The change they are doing is not because the design has no place, it's change for change sake.

Verzen wrote:

Seppukumon wrote:

What the title says, I am curious what people think when comparing what the homebrew brought compared to what the playtest has.

Mainly, cantrips vs "strikes", focus abilities vs overflow, burn as stun vs no burn at all, proficiency progression going to legendary for blasts vs master.

If the class releases anywhere near how it is in the playtest I believe I personally will continue to use the homebrew as I personally find it to be better thought out and implemented than how the playtest reads.

I am unfortunately not in any PF2E games at the moment, my group is running a few other systems right now so I probably wont get to play to see how it really feels. So I wanted to hear what anybody who has played with the Legendary Kineticist homebrew and the playtest, which do you prefer?

I like what the Legendary did with elemental defense. I really, really want it back.

Good news for you! The Legendary Games Kineticist exists. If it does what you think the kineticist should do, talk to your GM about using it. If they don't want to then talk to them about why. It doesn't seem like the developers at PF2 want to make that exact same class for their game.

It feels like they want to change it just to change it but don't really know what to do with it honestly.

It seems that Adapt Element "Gather" option allows you to Gather any element in your environment, no matter your inner gate. Then, even without specific impulse, you use this "gathered element" for generic purpose, such as Element blast "...using your gathered element".

Not gamebreaking, but quite nice to have options.

Choose a non-magical portion of an element you can channel that’s within 10 feet of you.

You have to be able to channel the element, so your 1 element as a dedicated, 1 of 2 for dual, or any of the universal.

*Edited formatting.

The homebrew is imbalanced is my opinion.

It isn't like game breaking imbalanced, it does need a few tweaks. I played the Legendary Kineticist from level 1-20 in a campaign and had a player play one from 1-20 in one of my campaigns. Neither were doing too much more than anyone else to where it was noticeable or game breaking. Though again, yes it does need a few tweaks to keep it in line with other classes.

Martialmasters wrote:

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

It's weird to refer to Legendary Kineticist as "homebrew" when it's by a reputable 3rd party publisher and an author who has worked for Paizo in the past.

Imo if it's not official paizo material it's home brew, even if it's been licensed and put up for sale.

Heh, in all fairness tho, even if kinda-sorta technically correct, it's prolly better to differentiate the commercially available 3rd-party stuff with somebody's completely free homemade game stuff- so as to minimize confusion. ;p

In my defense I was very tired and forgot the term 3rd party when I was writing my original post.

What the title says, I am curious what people think when comparing what the homebrew brought compared to what the playtest has.

Mainly, cantrips vs "strikes", focus abilities vs overflow, burn as stun vs no burn at all, proficiency progression going to legendary for blasts vs master.

If the class releases anywhere near how it is in the playtest I believe I personally will continue to use the homebrew as I personally find it to be better thought out and implemented than how the playtest reads.

I am unfortunately not in any PF2E games at the moment, my group is running a few other systems right now so I probably wont get to play to see how it really feels. So I wanted to hear what anybody who has played with the Legendary Kineticist homebrew and the playtest, which do you prefer?