I just noticed that the "cone" target word is level 0. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like it could get remarkably powerful in the hands of low level PCs. I'm trying to find something that disallows it, but it seems like you would be able to combine, for example, Acid Burn with Cone to create a cantrip that deals 1d3 damage to everything in a 10 foot cone. Am I reading something wrong, or is this not as powerful for a cantrip as it seems at first glance?
Words of Power are specifically called out as an optional rules system. Seems like that limits them just fine, to me.
Sorry; that makes no sense at all to me. Unbalanced and/or badly-designed rules are still equally unbalanced and badly-designed, regardless of whether they're subsequently tagged as "core" or "optional."
Would you pay actual money for a Paizo "Pathfinder compatible" supplement containing this:
ALTERNATE RACIAL TRAITS:
I just noticed that the "cone" target word is level 0. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like it could get remarkably powerful in the hands of low level PCs. I'm trying to find something that disallows it, but it seems like you would be able to combine, for example, Acid Burn with Cone to create a cantrip that deals 1d3 damage to everything in a 10 foot cone. Am I reading something wrong, or is this not as powerful for a cantrip as it seems at first glance?
Looking at it, an 'un-boosted' cone is 3 squares on a battle mat. So doing 1D3 acid damage on *up to* 3 medium/small targets, who each get a Reflex save for 1/2 damage, doesn't seem particularly overpowered for a 0-level wordspell to me. Sort of like a very weak acidic version of burning hands.
Ah! The reflex save is what I missed! Yeah, I guess when you put it that way, it doesn't seem so great.
So a 10 foot cone dealing 1d3 damage is overpowered ? Really you guys are funny sometimes. :)
Yer mom is funny sometimes...
And yeah, I can see where I went wrong now. Initially, my concern wasn't about this being game breaking by any means, but that 1d3 in an area of effect at will might be too good for a 1st level character. At later levels, it's definitely "pshaw."
My larger concern is Barrier.
Shock Arc Burning Flash Barrier at level 5 on a Wizard = 5d4 Electricity + 5d4 Fire in a close range (placed wherever you want) straight line stretching 10 ft per caster level (50 ft), 20 ft if boosted (100 ft, which has no level impact). This is at the same level as Fireball. Yes, it's still instantaneous.
If you wanted to use the Line function, which is garbage by comparison (WHY WOULD YOU EVER USE THIS TARGET WORD OUTSIDE OF LEVEL 1-2 SPELLS?), you could use a 4th level slot to get 60 ft or a 3rd level slot for 20 ft. It seems that the write-up should have had a specific statement somewhere that says "You can't use Barrier as a Target Word for Instantaneous duration Effects." Alternatively, restricting all of the instantaneous spells out of Barrier (though this would have been text heavy...) would have been an option. This is currently not restricted in any way.
Halflings - Halflings suck so badly that all they can do is whine. All halflings suffer a -10 penalty to Charisma and a -10 racial penalty to attack rolls. No halfling can gain levels in a class that provides spells.
I've been waiting my entire life for a set of rules along these lines. Halflings are type Vermin in my campaigns.
Having just perused this part of the book for ideas, I also think there is a portion in the Barrier info section that states it can't be placed anywhere that is occupied by any being, precluding it from being used anything but defensively. Yes the damages might apply but you can't substitute it as a line spell anyway you want.My larger concern is Barrier.
Shock Arc Burning Flash Barrier at level 5 on a Wizard = 5d4 Electricity + 5d4 Fire in a close range (placed wherever you want) straight line stretching 10 ft per caster level (50 ft), 20 ft if boosted (100 ft, which has no level impact). This is at the same level as Fireball. Yes, it's still instantaneous.
In your reading of the Words of Power system, you missed this paragraph:
Multiple Effect Words and Damage: If more than one
effect word causes the wordspell to deal damage, the total
number of dice of damage the wordspell can deal can be
no greater than the wordspell’s caster level. The caster
can decide which dice belong to which effect word, in any
combination, so long as the total number does not exceed
his wordcaster level and the number of dice allocated to a
specific effect word does not exceed its maximum.That spell deals 5d4 Electricy OR Fire. And it is instantaneous. And he's limited himself to Close range that can only effect two squares. By comparison, if he used a Boosted Line he could effect 24 squares. Even a non-boosted Line could effect 4 squares. Alternatively, he could use the Burst target word and have the same Close range and effect 12 squares. Or a Boosted Burst for squares at Medium range.
Clearly Barrier is the losing choice.
The system has flaws, but that's not one of them. Evoking is better under Words of Power, but that's about the only type of casting that is better. And Evoking is so horribad in general, that a slight boost under an optional system is not only ok, it's warranted.
You can place a barrier over a creature (says so under it), a boosted barrier would give you a (shapable) area of effect.
My larger concern is Barrier.
Shock Arc Burning Flash Barrier at level 5 on a Wizard = 5d4 Electricity + 5d4 Fire in a close range (placed wherever you want) straight line stretching 10 ft per caster level (50 ft), 20 ft if boosted (100 ft, which has no level impact). This is at the same level as Fireball. Yes, it's still instantaneous.
In your reading of the Words of Power system, you missed this paragraph:
Multiple Effect Words and Damage: If more than one
effect word causes the wordspell to deal damage, the total
number of dice of damage the wordspell can deal can be
no greater than the wordspell’s caster level. The caster
can decide which dice belong to which effect word, in any
combination, so long as the total number does not exceed
his wordcaster level and the number of dice allocated to a
specific effect word does not exceed its maximum.That spell deals 5d4 Electricy OR Fire. And it is instantaneous. And he's limited himself to Close range that can only effect two squares. By comparison, if he used a Boosted Line he could effect 24 squares. Even a non-boosted Line could effect 4 squares. Alternatively, he could use the Burst target word and have the same Close range and effect 12 squares. Or a Boosted Burst for squares at Medium range.
Clearly Barrier is the losing choice.
The system has flaws, but that's not one of them. Evoking is better under Words of Power, but that's about the only type of casting that is better. And Evoking is so horribad in general, that a slight boost under an optional system is not only ok, it's warranted.
You're right, I did miss that HD cap on damage. Thank you.
re: Barrier. It's not a losing choice. You can create 10 ft per caster level base in a straight line at rock-bottom spell level compared to spending extra spell levels to boost the Line. Yes, the range part sucks. If going at level 6, using any of your level 3 slots with a level 3 equivalent spell, you're looking at a 20 ft line (4 squares) or 60 ft barrier (12 squares).
If you're expecting optional rules systems to be as well tested and balanced as "core" rules systems, you can expect a life filled with disappointments.
The gaming industry doesn't have those kinds of resources.
-Kle.
After we pay for the core rules system they have even more resources for the optional then they did for the core, logically it should be better then core.
Borrow time is horribly, horribly broken. Note that you can put more than 1 effect word into a spell. As long as you put a borrow time and another effect in a spell, you can keep going and going and going for ridiculous nova-potential. This puts us back in the territory of "whoever wins initiative wins the battle".
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Borrow time is horribly, horribly broken. Note that you can put more than 1 effect word into a spell. As long as you put a borrow time and another effect in a spell, you can keep going and going and going for ridiculous nova-potential. This puts us back in the territory of "whoever wins initiative wins the battle".
It actually not that broken. All words in a wordspell affect the same target.
There are only to broken things about borrow time: The way it works with spell combat and the option to cast it three levels higher on the whole party.
Borrow time is horribly, horribly broken. Note that you can put more than 1 effect word into a spell. As long as you put a borrow time and another effect in a spell, you can keep going and going and going for ridiculous nova-potential. This puts us back in the territory of "whoever wins initiative wins the battle".It actually not that broken. All words in a wordspell affect the same target.
There are only to broken things about borrow time: The way it works with spell combat and the option to cast it three levels higher on the whole party.
Target yourself twice (or thrice) with a the borrow time effect then. You get 2 or 3 full actions. Use one of them to cast another word spell with 2 or 3 borrow time effect words. Rinse and repeat.
Target yourself twice (or thrice) with a the borrow time effect then. You get 2 or 3 full actions. Use one of them to cast another word spell with 2 or 3 borrow time effect words. Rinse and repeat.Borrow time is horribly, horribly broken. Note that you can put more than 1 effect word into a spell. As long as you put a borrow time and another effect in a spell, you can keep going and going and going for ridiculous nova-potential. This puts us back in the territory of "whoever wins initiative wins the battle".It actually not that broken. All words in a wordspell affect the same target.
There are only to broken things about borrow time: The way it works with spell combat and the option to cast it three levels higher on the whole party.
You cannot use more than one effect word from the same group unless otherwise specified.
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Target yourself twice (or thrice) with a the borrow time effect then. You get 2 or 3 full actions. Use one of them to cast another word spell with 2 or 3 borrow time effect words. Rinse and repeat.Borrow time is horribly, horribly broken. Note that you can put more than 1 effect word into a spell. As long as you put a borrow time and another effect in a spell, you can keep going and going and going for ridiculous nova-potential. This puts us back in the territory of "whoever wins initiative wins the battle".It actually not that broken. All words in a wordspell affect the same target.
There are only to broken things about borrow time: The way it works with spell combat and the option to cast it three levels higher on the whole party.
A wordspell typically cannot have more than one effect word from the same group, but there are exceptions.
That's a bit of a problem. It may be interpreted, that it would be okay to include multiple instances of the same word, although that would only work for healing effects.
On the other hand, if you include multiple instances of the same word, the wordspell would certainly include more than one effect word from the same group.
Would you pay actual money for a Paizo "Pathfinder compatible" supplement containing this:
ALTERNATE RACIAL TRAITS:
Dwarves - Dwarves are awesomely skilled miners. As a full-round action, a dwarf can mine his way to the center of the world, releasing a molten holocaust that destroys all life on the planet.
YES, YES I WOULD!
But only if the dwarf gets immunity to molten holocausts released by mining endeavours. I'm not in for suicidal tactics.
Look, who do you think has more resources - a game company, or a mass-market book publisher?Read any mass-market books, lately? They are unedited messes of typos and poor construction, compared to a decade or two ago. If the Mass-market publishing industry has reduced it's editing and proofreading to this degree (it unquestionably has), why do you think a relatively tiny company in a fringe market is going to be perfect?
How about gazillion-dollar game software companies? When was the last time that you bought a computer game that didn't need to be immediately patched, or worse, was pretty much beta? Heck, Windows Vista was basically beta, and I'm pretty sure Microsoft is a slightly bigger company than Paizo...
I've been around the edges of the gaming industry for a long time, and Paizo does a very good job by industry standards. On top of that, they're actually making money on gaming, which is nearly miraculous.
Sorry to hear you guys are grumpy and disappointed by this, but your expectations are simply out of step with reality.
-Kle.
Who do you think has more money, a game company, or the same game company after selling their original product to thousands of people?
The only reason product should get worse after making money would be paizo doing what those companies your referring did, rode the success of the first product to sell later ones. We b%!$@ so pazio knows we wont tolerate cash grab products. Consumers like you that buy saying "oh well" reward thought-less exspansions (eg. see 3.5)