Creative Director
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Back to the AP at hand, which I am delighted to see as a special edition...
What level span can we expect? Same as the original?
Will there be new encounters/"in-game" content, or will the new material likely be for support and clarification only (ie An NPC gallery, a magic item compendium, incorporated errata, etc)?
Definitely excited for this one.
Level span will be the same as the original. The new material will be new "in game" content, mostly to patch up holes or to add in some other fun stuff here and there as space permits. There'll be a new monster as well. Maybe some more stuff. I haven't 100% locked in all of the new stuff yet. Some of it will be directly inspired by feedback from the Runelords messageboards, though!
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Creative Director
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Someone asked a question, beyond re-balancing encounters, about a CR difference between giants in Beastiary 2 versus the original module (14 v 17, apparently)... I'm sure the situation will be similar to other books, where many creatures just get a Bestiary page number but variants get their own statblock on the page.
That's something that I'll be wrestling with in a month or so. There ARE indeed some CR differences there that'll require some fancy footwork in encounter redesigns and other stuff. Similarly, there are some encounters that 5 or so years of real-world playtest feedback have revealed were too tough or not tough enough; THOSE will get some revisions as well.
In fact, I'll be going through the whole thing with a fine toothed comb, similar to how I went through every single page of the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting in preparation for the Inner Sea World Guide.
As for HOW I'll rectify the CR chagnes... you'll just have to wait and see, I guess! (Or perhaps ask me again in a half-year or so when I'll have a better idea of how I fixed it!)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Translation: Paizo might compile AP's in the future, if this compilation proves profitable. Part of the problem is that at 2 AP's a year there really isn't enough material to produce regular compilations. Also, Kingmaker and Carrion Crown, two of Paizo's most popular APs are relatively recent. The popularity of the APs between Rise of the Runelords and Kingmaker probably does not justify a compiled volume.
Personally, I expect that we are going to see a Kingmaker compilation in about three years, along with mini support.
If they convert another AP you can be certain it's one that isn't available in their store at the time. Runelords has been sold out for something like 3 years and it was in heavy demand in the aftermarket. Even so, the announcement waited until their five year anniversary of it's release.
So keep an eye out for which APs are selling out and the 10th anniversary.
Edit: You can keep track of which products are selling out by watching the store blog. They publish lists a couple times a year. The current list is here if they convert an AP it will be one that spends a lot of time on these lists. No sign of Kingmaker there yet.
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Actually I do have a question. Will the players guide be part of it as well? And will the players guide be expanded and updated like the more recent ones?I'm gonna start answering these as I go, so apologies if I repeat any info...
The Rise of the Runelords Player's guide actually had VERY little information specifically about Rise of the Runelords. It was more like an Introduction to Golarion Player's Guide, to be honest.
We'll have some information about how to start your Runelords campaign in the book, though—exactly what sort of additional Player's Guide bonus content we'll have for the hardcover is unclear at this time.
Yeah I was more wondering if we would get a new/expanded one, like something along the lines of what we have recently gotten from Jade and Carrion etc. :)
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Creative Director
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James, I'm interested in the "gallery of NPCs" -- can you elaborate a bit on that?
Sure.
I've identified six key NPCs, one from each of the six adventures, who'll have a 2 page entry in an appendix similar to how we're doing the key NPCs in Jade Regent. That 2 page entry will include their stat block as well as their history and personality and appearance and roleplay notes.
I'm led to understand that this new edition will be changed to reflect Paizo's greater understanding of AP's, but I'm interested to know if this Anniversary edition will be updated to include new material from the RPG line of products in a grand Transmutation worthy of the last Runelord of Greed, or if this is going to be "as similar" to the original as possible, but utilizing Pathfinder rules and builds?
Will pre-ordering this mean that there is no charge for it now? Or are we paying about a year in advance?
Will pre-ordering this mean that there is no charge for it now? Or are we paying about a year in advance?
If you preorder, just like with your subscriptions, you are not charged until the item ships. So it won't be until next June.
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Creative Director
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I'm led to understand that this new edition will be changed to reflect Paizo's greater understanding of AP's, but I'm interested to know if this Anniversary edition will be updated to include new material from the RPG line of products in a grand Transmutation worthy of the last Runelord of Greed, or if this is going to be "as similar" to the original as possible, but utilizing Pathfinder rules and builds?
We may use new material from the RPG line as it makes sense, but for the most point the goal is to keep the AP as similar to the original as possible.
This looks like being an essential in any collection..five years of player feedback should make it the most playtested AP ever.
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I'm tremendously excited about this. When I first got into Pathfinder in a big way a year ago, the first thing I wanted to do was order Rise of the Runelords. Then I discovered that getting ahold of all the copies was hard to do. Then I found out that it wasn't even using the pathfinder rules.
So I was one of those who posted in the thread that I'd pay over a hundred bucks for a new, updated, hardcopy version of the AP. Now I find that not only is it going to be released as I'd hoped but it's also going to have a bit of new content as well for much less than a hundred bucks?
Count me in! Even if I have to wait a year to get it. Thanks, Paizo, for being so cool. Preorder placed.
The maturity level of the content will not be changing either way.Doubtful, but would be awesomeIn fact, this would be a great place to put the original, uncensored version of Hook Mountain Massacre back in!Please DO NOT tone down the "Mama Graul" parts.
Keep them as they are or or crank up the "Deliverance" factor!!!!
Awwwww. If I had been serious with my request, I'd be disappointed now. :D
I never managed to hunt down that old version (apparently it did circulate), but I understand that it was probably too nasty for an AP.
Considering that Pathfinder isn't really squeamish, that says a lot about Mr. Logue's sick, twisted mind. ;-)
Edit) Again, the Runelords player's guide didn't really serve well as a specific for that AP player's guide, really. It was mostly geared at letting players know about Golarion. We don't have to do that now. We've got plenty of that kind of information already.
But there will be a current-AP-like player's guide, yes? One with some background about the area, some advice about race and class, and a bunch of campaign traits (I want to see how close I've come with my version of the traits ;-) and so on?
The monster stats will be treated the same way as they have been in every Pathfinder AP—inline in the text as they are needed for their encounters.
This applies only to monsters that are either "flown in" (like when you use something from the Tome of Horrors) or you create a standard enemy that appears several times ("Goblin Warsinger See page 20"). If you make new monsters just for the AP, you put them in the bestiary.
Will this compilation have a bestiary? Or are all the critters from #1-6's bestiaries (or at least those who actually showed up in the adventures themselves, which wasn't all of them at first) in one of the Bestiaries now? (I haven't seen Bestiary 3 yet, obviously, but so far I can think of at least one critter that isn't yet anywhere else - the Lamia Harridan (I don't remember whether the other types of lamyrkin were actually in the adventures).
Some of it will be directly inspired by feedback from the Runelords messageboards, though!
I'm curious what will happen to a certain mass murderess from the end of the second book.
We may use new material from the RPG line as it makes sense
Eldritch knights becoming magi? Some NPCs getting archetypes? Karzoug turning into a Thassalonian Specialist (Greed) all the way?
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Creative Director
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But there will be a current-AP-like player's guide, yes? One with some background about the area, some advice about race and class, and a bunch of campaign traits (I want to see how close I've come with my version of the traits ;-) and so on?
Unclear. That information might be in the hardcover's introduction. It might be a PDF download. It might be something else. We haven't decided yet.
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Creative Director
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The monster stats will be treated the same way as they have been in every Pathfinder AP—inline in the text as they are needed for their encounters.This applies only to monsters that are either "flown in" (like when you use something from the Tome of Horrors) or you create a standard enemy that appears several times ("Goblin Warsinger See page 20"). If you make new monsters just for the AP, you put them in the bestiary.
Will this compilation have a bestiary? Or are all the critters from #1-6's bestiaries (or at least those who actually showed up in the adventures themselves, which wasn't all of them at first) in one of the Bestiaries now? (I haven't seen Bestiary 3 yet, obviously, but so far I can think of at least one critter that isn't yet anywhere else - the Lamia Harridan (I don't remember whether the other types of lamyrkin were actually in the adventures).
The compendium will indeed have a bestiary of all of the monsters that have not made it into Bestiary 1, 2, or 3, but still have roles to play in the Runelords saga. Including one brand new monster, and one monster that originally didn't have a role but now does.
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Creative Director
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Eldritch knights becoming magi? Some NPCs getting archetypes? Karzoug turning into a Thassalonian Specialist (Greed) all the way?
We may use new material from the RPG line as it makes sense
Eldritch knights will NOT become magi. Magi are not wizards, and one of the KEY elements of Thassilon is that their leaders (and their favorite minions) were wizards or had wizard levels.
Some NPCs might gain archetypes here and there.
Karzoug and many other wizards will certainly become Thassilonian specialists.
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But there will be a current-AP-like player's guide, yes? One with some background about the area, some advice about race and class, and a bunch of campaign traits (I want to see how close I've come with my version of the traits ;-) and so on?Unclear. That information might be in the hardcover's introduction. It might be a PDF download. It might be something else. We haven't decided yet.
I'd like to put my vote in for the new style PDF players guides much like we've seen from Council of Thieves onwards. Complete with traits to tie the PCs to the region (though not necessarily to tightly to Sandpoint).
DM_aka_Dudemeister, I was about to say something similar before reading your comment. Since the most persuasive arguments are likely to be business logic ones, here's where I try to make some... like how a free PDF player's guide may serve as a teaser for the pay product, for a GM on the fence. Oh, and how not having to do any work to create a printable handout for the players is worth something to the target market! Yes, I think we have some winners already. :)
Random question for James--
I'm about to start RotRL for my gaming group, but as we operate on a rotating GM policy, I will wrap up my run after The Skinsaw Murders. I'm likely to be back running Hook Mountain Massacre after this comes out.
I see you mentioned that the compilation will be trying to stick as close to the original adventure as possible, but if I switch over from the original adventure to the compilation hardcover partway through the adventure, am I likely to run into any problems?
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Sure.
I've identified six key NPCs, one from each of the six adventures, who'll have a 2 page entry in an appendix similar to how we're doing the key NPCs in Jade Regent. That 2 page entry will include their stat block as well as their history and personality and appearance and roleplay notes.
Im really hoping you dont do one on a certain tavern owner, as Id be really surprised if there isnt a big description for her in Jade Regent.
1. Nualia Tobyn
2. Aldern Foxglove
3. Shelalu Androsana
4. Mokmurian
5. The Scribbler
6. Karzoug
Am I close?
Im really hoping you dont do one on a certain tavern owner, as Id be really surprised if there isnt a big description for her in Jade Regent.
** spoiler omitted **
Am I close?
Your #3 is also in Jade Regent. My guess is
#1 Nualia
#2 Foxglove
#3 Jakardos
#4 Mokmurian
#5 Athroxis
#6 Karzoug
Where did the "old version" circulate?
Nick posted a summary of the cut material on the now defunct Sinister Adventure boards. It was pretty gruesome. I think he also emailed the cut bits to some fans, but I wasn't one of them. Not for lack of trying.. ;-)
Where did the "old version" circulate?
In the dark corners of the internet. As I said, I couldn't find it. Someone told me you could get it somewhere, but I didn't get it.
Sounds like those stories about that legendary old store that your friend knows and they have awesome stuff there but he can't find it and it has moved but your neighbour knew a guy who was there. Or something. Uhm.
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Creative Director
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Random question for James--
I'm about to start RotRL for my gaming group, but as we operate on a rotating GM policy, I will wrap up my run after The Skinsaw Murders. I'm likely to be back running Hook Mountain Massacre after this comes out.
I see you mentioned that the compilation will be trying to stick as close to the original adventure as possible, but if I switch over from the original adventure to the compilation hardcover partway through the adventure, am I likely to run into any problems?
Nothing major, really. We'll be organizing the book into 6 chapters, one per adventure. The only "problem" in your case I suspect would be that since it's all one book, it'll be easier for one GM to accidentally spoil something for himself in an upcoming chapter. But switching from the original softcovers into the hardcover halfway through should be pretty easy.
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Creative Director
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Where did the "old version" circulate?
It never did, to my knowledge. As mentioned above, Nick may have talked about some of the cut content here and there, but I'm pretty sure a "writer's cut" never went around, since that would be kind of against the rules for Nick to do that in the first place.
The VAST majority of the content I cut from "Hook Mountain" ended up being re-used in Pathfinder #7, for the Eel's End section. Most of the other stuff I cut was not much more than a word here, a sentence there, to edge back from an X rating.
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Creative Director
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Sure.
I've identified six key NPCs, one from each of the six adventures, who'll have a 2 page entry in an appendix similar to how we're doing the key NPCs in Jade Regent. That 2 page entry will include their stat block as well as their history and personality and appearance and roleplay notes.
Im really hoping you dont do one on a certain tavern owner, as Id be really surprised if there isnt a big description for her in Jade Regent.
** spoiler omitted **
Am I close?
You're close, but Shalelu, like Ameiko, has a big role to play in Jade Regent. Their roles in Runelords won't be changing, but neither will they be increasing. Nor is either of them important enough to Runelords to warrant having a 2 page entry in the hardcover.
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Where did the "old version" circulate?It never did, to my knowledge. As mentioned above, Nick may have talked about some of the cut content here and there, but I'm pretty sure a "writer's cut" never went around, since that would be kind of against the rules for Nick to do that in the first place.
The VAST majority of the content I cut from "Hook Mountain" ended up being re-used in Pathfinder #7, for the Eel's End section. Most of the other stuff I cut was not much more than a word here, a sentence there, to edge back from an X rating.
Nick posted encounters that were cut off, but never posted a full version to my knowledge.
The cut part were not indispensable IMO, though I liked the final place in the Hook Mountain, with the Albino.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Will the PDF of this have the new interactive maps?
We'll do everything we can to bring the PDF of this volume up to our current specs... but at this time, I don't know if the old maps even *exist* with all of the layers we'd need to pull off interactivity. (The new maps will, though.)
Will you restat the encounter with Xanesha? Every time I played it it's been a TPK or almost... when I did some math after PFRPG was released, I think I realized that encounter was 6 or 7 CRs above the party level.
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Will you restat the encounter with Xanesha? Every time I played it it's been a TPK or almost... when I did some math after PFRPG was released, I think I realized that encounter was 6 or 7 CRs above the party level.
Nah.
She's a walkover.
She needs a buff.
I want more men to cry at my table.
I will so be buying this when I get the chance. I just hope you guys decide to release updated versions of the other APs that are still using 3.5 rules because I would buy those as well.
I will so be buying this when I get the chance. I just hope you guys decide to release updated versions of the other APs that are still using 3.5 rules because I would buy those as well.
Nope. They lost the original digital files for all the text and art, so someone would have to re-enter and re-draw everything. Nope.
Nope. There was a weird contract in place with the authors of those APs such that any derivative or compilation product would cost $10,000 per printed copy. Nope.
Nope. A hacker has booby-trapped Paizo's computers so that if they even appear to be revising those APs, the entire building explodes, killing them all. Nope.
All fun aside, Paizo wants it understood that wishes or not, such products are hot-potato topics. Don't touch. Bad. Evil. See elsewhere, earlier in the thread for much discussion.
Will you restat the encounter with Xanesha? Every time I played it it's been a TPK or almost... when I did some math after PFRPG was released, I think I realized that encounter was 6 or 7 CRs above the party level.
James did (kind of) answer this one already:
[Xanesha will p]robably [undergo] a sorcererectomy.
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Creative Director
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Will you restat the encounter with Xanesha? Every time I played it it's been a TPK or almost... when I did some math after PFRPG was released, I think I realized that encounter was 6 or 7 CRs above the party level.
That encounter is probably the single most cited encounter in the category of "overpowered TPK machine." So... yes. Rebuilding that encounter is very much going to happen. In fact, we'll be rebuilding and rebalancing a lot of the encounters... some in small ways, some in big ways.
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Will you restat the encounter with Xanesha? Every time I played it it's been a TPK or almost... when I did some math after PFRPG was released, I think I realized that encounter was 6 or 7 CRs above the party level.That encounter is probably the single most cited encounter in the category of "overpowered TPK machine." So... yes. Rebuilding that encounter is very much going to happen. In fact, we'll be rebuilding and rebalancing a lot of the encounters... some in small ways, some in big ways.
Sure, revise her. But keep her fairly tough/deadly. I mean, that encounter is very memorable and it would be a shame to loose that kind of impact.
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Will you restat the encounter with Xanesha? Every time I played it it's been a TPK or almost... when I did some math after PFRPG was released, I think I realized that encounter was 6 or 7 CRs above the party level.That encounter is probably the single most cited encounter in the category of "overpowered TPK machine." So... yes. Rebuilding that encounter is very much going to happen. In fact, we'll be rebuilding and rebalancing a lot of the encounters... some in small ways, some in big ways.
Personally, I hope she doesn't get downgraded too much. I think the fact that she IS so deadly is what makes her such a standout encounter. Not the setting, her personality, or anything else. All things being equal I found the Staglord much more engaging from that perspective. Its the fact that fighting her is so devastating that ensures that five years later, everyone who has played RotRL remembers Xanesha, usually with a shudder. There are aspects to the fight that are easily overcome or compensated for even adding one more level to the characters. The fact that they face her power level at their power level is what sets this apart.
To continue the comparison, I see just as many people dying to the Staglord, though in fairness he causes less TPKs I think. Then again, hes in a nice safe fort rather than.. well, you know...
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James, I'm interested in the "gallery of NPCs" -- can you elaborate a bit on that?Sure.
I've identified six key NPCs, one from each of the six adventures, who'll have a 2 page entry in an appendix similar to how we're doing the key NPCs in Jade Regent. That 2 page entry will include their stat block as well as their history and personality and appearance and roleplay notes.
Ah, that sounds pretty cool. :)
My first thought was that it'd be a gallery in the sense you guys published a couple of two-page art pieces (poster-style) featuring all the major NPCs from the Shackled City AP ("Villains of Cauldron" and "Faces of Cauldron" by Jeff Carlisle). Would something like this also be possible for RotRL?
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I will so be buying this when I get the chance. I just hope you guys decide to release updated versions of the other APs that are still using 3.5 rules because I would buy those as well.All fun aside, Paizo wants it understood that wishes or not, such products are hot-potato topics. Don't touch. Bad. Evil. See elsewhere, earlier in the thread for much discussion.
Yep, if that discussion is allowed to proceed unchecked I predict that Paizo will end up being sold to Necromancer Games for pennies on the dollar.