Beyond the Jade Regent


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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Jon Brazer Enterprises

Disclaimer: This is just a rambling and a curiosity. I do not actually expect an answer. This isn't me speaking as a game publisher or a Pathfinder licensee. This is me speaking as a page-licking fan of Pathfinder (if you don't lick your adventure paths, you don't get the good crack ;) ).

I'm curious what is beyond the Jade Regent adventure path. Is there another adventure path in Tian Xia where it is assumed that the players start out as ninjas, samurai, etc? If so, cool. But .... What about the continent we've known and come to love? A whole year without more Avastian adventures. Seems like forever.

But what is beyond that? It seems logical that Paizo will put out another World Guide and another adventure path set there. Is Avastian going to be left as a distant memory?

Reading over this, this sounds whiny to me. It isn't meant to be. Just curious. And excited.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I personally hope for an AP where you will have a chance to use the expression "Pike it, Prime berk" a lot.

Dark Archive

Worldwound! Mammoth Lands!


I believe Erik or James described the APs each year as "one normal, and one more experimental". Each year, the normal one is usually released at Gen Con, and that was explicitly being reversed next year to release Jade Regent with the Ultimate books that contain the oriental information.

As it is "reversed", the normal one would then come out at the beginning of 2012, following Jade Regent. Avistan isn't going anywhere I think :)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

We won't be revealing the plot and nature of the AP after Jade Regent for some time. Probably about 6 to 8 months.

Shadow Lodge

Hmm, Varisia had three APs, Cheliax has had its own, Katapesh as well, so did River Kingdoms, Mwangi and Ustalav and now Crown of the World-Tian Xia. That's a whole lot of area covered yet still many places that've hardly been featured.

Perhaps it is time to look into Galt and Taldor now. A resistance AP without the devilish bent or one where the PCs struggle to help royalists as hired body guards and end up getting a lot more than they bargained for. And I'd be totally in favor of a human or at least a Prime main antagonist once again. We've seen plenty of planar hopping and ancient evil for a while.


Gorbacz wrote:
I personally hope for an AP where you will have a chance to use the expression "Pike it, Prime berk" a lot.

Doubtful, given that most of the cool planescape stuff isn't OGL. :(

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Malaclypse wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
I personally hope for an AP where you will have a chance to use the expression "Pike it, Prime berk" a lot.
Doubtful, given that most of the cool planescape stuff isn't OGL. :(

Yeah, but a Planar AP would be close enough to my ideal. Also, Sigil is pretty much self-contained and can be dropped into Golarion without much trouble.


Gorbacz wrote:
Yeah, but a Planar AP would be close enough to my ideal.

Indeed, a Planar AP would be amazing.

Liberty's Edge

And than, there are Lamashtu's plans for Varisia... More ground for a whole AP! :)

Sovereign Court

Castrovel would be cool but Taldor would be better.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

A planar, or even an off-planet AP is not going to happen soon. We might visit other planes or even other planets now and then (as in Legacy of Fire), but for the most part we have no intention of leaving Golarion (or even the Inner Sea Region, with the exception of Jade Regent) anytime soon.

Dark Archive

I would love to see an AP in Taldor. Make it your experimental AP for the year. It could be based on the intracacies of Taldan society where role play would be stressed and combat would be of tertiary concern. A social AP would be a great change. Combat outside of an occasional duel or a singular rescue mission shouldn't be necessary in such a campaign. Taldor is a hive of scum and villiany dressed in the latest fashions with the best educations and most noble breeding. You haven't faced a true hag until you've been slashed by the razor sharp wit of an elderly matron.

Liberty's Edge

I'm hoping for a AP in Taldor.


Paladinosaur wrote:
I'm hoping for a AP in Taldor.

or Galt

Sovereign Court

drayen wrote:
I would love to see an AP in Taldor. Make it your experimental AP for the year. It could be based on the intracacies of Taldan society where role play would be stressed and combat would be of tertiary concern. A social AP would be a great change. Combat outside of an occasional duel or a singular rescue mission shouldn't be necessary in such a campaign. Taldor is a hive of scum and villiany dressed in the latest fashions with the best educations and most noble breeding. You haven't faced a true hag until you've been slashed by the razor sharp wit of an elderly matron.

I hope it's not too much like some parts of Council Of Thieves. I'm kind of hoping that some legacy of Taldor's noble history might survive - Taldor might be decadent and lazy but it's not hell-ruled.


James Jacobs wrote:
We won't be revealing the plot and nature of the AP after Jade Regent for some time. Probably about 6 to 8 months.

So you don't deny the all-dungeon-crawl Below The Siege Castles adventure path? Or the Hermea kill-every-single-smug-bastard-on-the-isle-and-their-dragon-too path?

Excellent...

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
drayen wrote:
I would love to see an AP in Taldor. Make it your experimental AP for the year. It could be based on the intracacies of Taldan society where role play would be stressed and combat would be of tertiary concern. A social AP would be a great change. Combat outside of an occasional duel or a singular rescue mission shouldn't be necessary in such a campaign. Taldor is a hive of scum and villiany dressed in the latest fashions with the best educations and most noble breeding. You haven't faced a true hag until you've been slashed by the razor sharp wit of an elderly matron.

As above, Jade Regent is the experimental AP for the 2011/12 cycle, so the later one will be reasonably standard.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Enlight_Bystand wrote:
drayen wrote:
I would love to see an AP in Taldor. Make it your experimental AP for the year. It could be based on the intracacies of Taldan society where role play would be stressed and combat would be of tertiary concern. A social AP would be a great change. Combat outside of an occasional duel or a singular rescue mission shouldn't be necessary in such a campaign. Taldor is a hive of scum and villiany dressed in the latest fashions with the best educations and most noble breeding. You haven't faced a true hag until you've been slashed by the razor sharp wit of an elderly matron.
As above, Jade Regent is the experimental AP for the 2011/12 cycle, so the later one will be reasonably standard.

Not necessarily.

The "experimental/safe" route for APs is something that was important when we first started Pathfinder, but with each AP in the can and with each experimental AP being more popular than the "safe" ones, expect us to shift this around. After all, Serpent's Skull and Carrion Crown are both what I'd call "Safe" APs and they're back to back.

What I've got planned after Jade Regent is, perhaps, the most experimental topic for an AP we've done yet.


James Jacobs wrote:


What I've got planned after Jade Regent is, perhaps, the most experimental topic for an AP we've done yet.

This is after you said that plane or planet hopping would be out and we already had Darklands, distant continents, and the Sandbox.

You have to give us a hint!

An AP that plays out all in one day (Or one day per issue)? Time travel? Dreamtime? All-evil group? Having generations of characters? Dungeonkeeper? All monstrous characters? A whole campaign in a dead magic zone?


or an AP where players are undead spies on a mission to infiltrate nex. :)

PS: I would even play this...

Liberty's Edge

I'm willing to try whatever Paizo throws our way. That said, I would repeat an observation that we made on episode 006 of Chronicles: Pathfinder Podcast: the length of time it takes to play an AP is considerable. Sometimes, it's just too much.

I would much prefer that every other AP focused on play in levels 1st-12th and took a shorter period of time to play to the final conclusion.

By trimming about 3 months off of the overall length of a weekly AP campaign, a shorter Adventure Path (I'm talking in terms of actual play time, not page count) enables more players and GMs to play and experience more Paizo products in a shorter period of time.

An every-other-AP, alternating beween 1st to -12th level and 1st to 16th/17th level arcs is a better overall approach to the campaign length taken to play out an Adventure Path, imo.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Partly echoing a comment above I would dearly love to see an AP focussed around societal scheming/factional plotting/etcetera. Presumably based in some urban setting like Taldor. The idea of behind-the-scenes machinations and conflict which has to happen in semi-secret due to social convention or political necessity is something I've always found difficult to pull off as a DM. Despite that, it seems to me it provides a unique style of adventure where defeating the villain is more complicated and subtle than breaking into his lair and killing him. What I've enjoyed about the APs so far is the assistance from professionals to develop adventure ideas I find interesting but which are beyond my abilities as an adventure writer. I really like the fact that each has its own style and theme - perhaps the three Dungeon APs are more 'generic' than those set in Golarion, nonetheless they each have a definite feel which sets them apart.

For that reason, I'd be against another 'plucky rebellion' AP or similar set in Galt/Taldor rather than Cheliax. In my opinion it's important that each AP have it's own thematic focus as well as a geographic one. Diversity in type of adventure is more important to me than exploring new parts of the Golarion world.

Grand Lodge

Maybe an AP that is completely under the oceans!


Although I may be found to be a bit of a stick in the mud, another city campaign is what I am hoping for. CotCT is very nice, but takes the PC's too much out of the city and I've heard mostly bad stuff about CoT.

I'd like a city campaign where the PC's really stay in the city for the duration, maybe venturing outside for half a module. :p


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Steel_Wind wrote:

I'm willing to try whatever Paizo throws our way. That said, I would repeat an observation that we made on episode 006 of Chronicles: Pathfinder Podcast: the length of time it takes to play an AP is considerable. Sometimes, it's just too much.

I would much prefer that every other AP focused on play in levels 1st-12th and took a shorter period of time to play to the final conclusion.

By trimming about 3 months off of the overall length of a weekly AP campaign, a shorter Adventure Path (I'm talking in terms of actual play time, not page count) enables more players and GMs to play and experience more Paizo products in a shorter period of time.

An every-other-AP, alternating beween 1st to -12th level and 1st to 16th/17th level arcs is a better overall approach to the campaign length taken to play out an Adventure Path, imo.

I can relate to that. I usually play weekly in my groups, usually on weeknights, about 4, maybe 5 hours per session. But what I don't get is the speed that some groups breeze through these adventure paths. I haven't finished a Pathfinder AP yet, but I estimate that during the time it takes my groups to play through one AP, at least two, probably more like three new complete APs will be published.

My Savage Tide campaign has now been running for two years (76 sessions) and we're currently playing the Scuttlecove module, so it'll probably take another year, finishing at three years to equal the time it took that group previously to play Shackled City.

My Rise of the Runelords campaign that I started when Burnt Offering was first published three years ago is still ongoing, but we had a stretch of empty time there due to player time constraints, and we're finishing up chapter 5 there.

I think, with the time available and the way we play, it's impossible to finish a Pathfinder AP in less than two years.

The good thing is, I'll never run out of adventures to play, even with three groups, but I'd still like to be able to get through an AP faster.

Dark Archive

Steve Geddes wrote:
Partly echoing a comment above I would dearly love to see an AP focussed around societal scheming/factional plotting/etcetera. Presumably based in some urban setting like Taldor. The idea of behind-the-scenes machinations and conflict which has to happen in semi-secret due to social convention or political necessity is something I've always found difficult to pull off as a DM. Despite that, it seems to me it provides a unique style of adventure where defeating the villain is more complicated and subtle than breaking into his lair and killing him. What I've enjoyed about the APs so far is the assistance from professionals to develop adventure ideas I find interesting but which are beyond my abilities as an adventure writer. I really like the fact that each has its own style and theme - perhaps the three Dungeon APs are more 'generic' than those set in Golarion, nonetheless they each have a definite feel which sets them apart.

Well said, sir. Much better than I put it.

Steve Geddes wrote:
For that reason, I'd be against another 'plucky rebellion' AP or similar set in Galt/Taldor rather than Cheliax. In my opinion it's important that each AP have it's own thematic focus as well as a geographic one. Diversity in type of adventure is more important to me than exploring new parts of the Golarion world.

By "plucky rebellion" I hope you mean working for the shadowy overlords of Nidal or People's Government of Galt to put down said rebellion. You know, like what should have been done with Cheliax in CoT.

Liberty's Edge

Steel_Wind wrote:

I'm willing to try whatever Paizo throws our way. That said, I would repeat an observation that we made on episode 006 of Chronicles: Pathfinder Podcast: the length of time it takes to play an AP is considerable. Sometimes, it's just too much.

I would much prefer that every other AP focused on play in levels 1st-12th and took a shorter period of time to play to the final conclusion.

By trimming about 3 months off of the overall length of a weekly AP campaign, a shorter Adventure Path (I'm talking in terms of actual play time, not page count) enables more players and GMs to play and experience more Paizo products in a shorter period of time.

An every-other-AP, alternating beween 1st to -12th level and 1st to 16th/17th level arcs is a better overall approach to the campaign length taken to play out an Adventure Path, imo.

What Steel said!

Gaming time is short for most of us (kids, real life, job, etc.), and our group sometimes has difficulties finding a day to play. I dm RotRL - we just hit Runeforge and play for almost 1.5 years. DMing above level 12 is a strain sometimes, and i can't wait to dm another AP.
So, it would be awesome, if Paizo would consider this option!


After just discovering the Jade Regent AP is in the works and that it starts off in Varisia, I hope that it involves Ameiko Kaijutsu in some manner. My players really love that NPC (I'm currently running RotRL and she has been very helpful to her rescuers and friends, the PC's). And as a long-time fan of the L5R RPG, hearing about all the oriental themed fluff and crunch that's in the works has gotten me salivating.

Because Golarion just needs more oni. ;)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Spawn of Rovagug wrote:

After just discovering the Jade Regent AP is in the works and that it starts off in Varisia, I hope that it involves Ameiko Kaijutsu in some manner. My players really love that NPC (I'm currently running RotRL and she has been very helpful to her rescuers and friends, the PC's). And as a long-time fan of the L5R RPG, hearing about all the oriental themed fluff and crunch that's in the works has gotten me salivating.

Because Golarion just needs more oni. ;)

Saying "Jade Regent involves Ameiko Kaijitsu" is like saying "Star Wars involves wars in the stars."

Aka, Ameiko will be on the cover of the first volume of Jade Regent. Might be on the last cover too. She's THAT important to the Jade Regent adventure path. In fact, the plot for Jade Regent's been bumping around in my head since Pathfinder #1, and that's a primary reason I put Ameiko in that adventure in the first place.


I would love to see something done with Numeria, Vudra and the worldwound. A great journey type of AP with each part taking place in a different region would also be sweet. But whatever Paizo have planned I am sure they won't disappoint :).


i think it will involve alkenstar and the mana wastes (especially with the new gunslinger base class that may be included in complete combat) i would find it intriguing myself but many gamers don't like the idea of firearms in a fantasy campaign, i don't mind them if done in moderation.


Woo hoo! I can't wait to see what's in the works for Miss Minkai - flights from distant foreign lands to unsettled shores, unrest and turmoil and bleak omens, dark backroom imperial politics, and a destiny that can't be avoided.

My mind is suddenly flashing back to Clan Wars. Ah, good times. Good times.

So with that said, will there be any Thassilonian/Runelord connection in Jade Regent, even as background or a setting in the first adventure?

And what about those runelords? Any of them besides Ol' bumpy-head gonna get outta bed anytime soon? Like 2011 soon?

Scarab Sages

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

As I like ancient Egypt and the idea of playing an Arodenite cleric, I'd like the AP after JR to be set in Osirion circa 2217-2253 AR.

The Even-Tongued Conquest in 4081 might also be an interesting historical setting.

And if this is the long-awaited (and doubtless, dreaded) evil campaign, I'd say it would be set in Nidal and be about the recovery of one or more relics of Kazavon.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Spawn of Rovagug wrote:

So with that said, will there be any Thassilonian/Runelord connection in Jade Regent, even as background or a setting in the first adventure?

And what about those runelords? Any of them besides Ol' bumpy-head gonna get outta bed anytime soon? Like 2011 soon?

There won't be much about Thassilon at all in the Jade Regent Adventure Path.

We're FAR from done with Thassilon, though. But what we've got planned next for Thassilon and the runelords isn't ready yet for the world... someday soon, though!


An AP using newly developed and balanced epic level rules, involving the PC's taking the Test of the Starstone.

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
Spawn of Rovagug wrote:

After just discovering the Jade Regent AP is in the works and that it starts off in Varisia, I hope that it involves Ameiko Kaijutsu in some manner. My players really love that NPC (I'm currently running RotRL and she has been very helpful to her rescuers and friends, the PC's). And as a long-time fan of the L5R RPG, hearing about all the oriental themed fluff and crunch that's in the works has gotten me salivating.

Because Golarion just needs more oni. ;)

Saying "Jade Regent involves Ameiko Kaijitsu" is like saying "Star Wars involves wars in the stars."

Aka, Ameiko will be on the cover of the first volume of Jade Regent. Might be on the last cover too. She's THAT important to the Jade Regent adventure path. In fact, the plot for Jade Regent's been bumping around in my head since Pathfinder #1, and that's a primary reason I put Ameiko in that adventure in the first place.

OK now I'm really interested :)


being new to pathfinder, who is this ameiko kaijutsu?, i assume she is from an early ap, also what is savage tides, i spent about 15 years away from dnd/pathfinder and am not familiar with it.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
captain yesterday wrote:
being new to pathfinder, who is this ameiko kaijutsu?, i assume she is from an early ap, also what is savage tides, i spent about 15 years away from dnd/pathfinder and am not familiar with it.

Ameiko is an NPC from the very first episode of Pathfinder - "Burnt Offerings". She's a member of Tian family living in Sandpoint, Varisia.

Savage Tide is one of the three APs (other two being Shackled City and Age of Worms) that were published in Dungeon Magazine back when it was ran by Paizo.


captain yesterday wrote:
being new to pathfinder, who is this ameiko kaijutsu?, i assume she is from an early ap, also what is savage tides, i spent about 15 years away from dnd/pathfinder and am not familiar with it.

Ameiko Kaijutsu is a Minkai (asiatic) noble-turned rebellious tavern owner in the town of Sandpoint in the first AP Rise of the Runelords. During the course of the first adventure the characters have a chance of saving her from a nefarious fate.

Savage Tide:
Savage Tides is a Dungeon Magazine AP that had nautical PC's exploring lost islands and ancient cities controlled by primitive demon worshipers of Demogorgon. The AP could take the characters to the very Abyss itself to destroy the Prince of Demons.

And welcome back. :)


Yahr, my salt and slovenly dogs, ye be makin' a tale of darin' do on that high sea's or I be talkin' like this until ya do.... the players as shackle Pirates based AP complete with talking parrets, ship to ship combat and small unit combat, cannons, rum and dee....I mean Sahuagin


Gambit wrote:
An AP using newly developed and balanced epic level rules, involving the PC's taking the Test of the Starstone.

+1

That could actually be quite cool.

It could also work if the Test was the second or third installment, with the rest of the AP being the PCs having to deal with gaining worshipers and dealing with the various divine factions.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Firest wrote:
Gambit wrote:
An AP using newly developed and balanced epic level rules, involving the PC's taking the Test of the Starstone.

+1

That could actually be quite cool.

It could also work if the Test was the second or third installment, with the rest of the AP being the PCs having to deal with gaining worshipers and dealing with the various divine factions.

An AP focused on levels 18-30, as a follow-up for all the other APs, complete with attempting the Starstone midway through the series, but then the PCs all fail... and yet survive. Then what do they do? What do they do in the wake of that? How would the people of Absalom react? The rest of Golarion? Hmm. Ideas.

*gets to plotting*

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

How would it sell ? Poorly.

Silver Crusade

Much as I like epic gaming I have to agree with our wise and learned bag of devouring.

Epic rules will come along but they will be a particular line with maybe a couple of supporting books and adventures. The fact is that many people don't like epic gaming and don't want to play it. Epic rules would therefore interest only a proportion of players and GM's

The AP's are Paizo's flagship products and their biggest sellers. They are what got me hooked on Pathfinder and by extension Golarion. Their big selling point is that you can pretty much run them without any adjustment and with very little prep time. They are well written, well presented and well laid out and crucially they are accessible to anyone, veteran and novice alike.

Epic gaming requires a lot more work for both GM's and players. As such if you do a level 18-30 AP it will be very daunting for rookie GM's and players.

Stan Lee once said that he reminded all of his writers at Marvel comics to remember that every issue of every comic will be someone's first. AP's are no different - they have to be accessible to new players or you put people off.

Epic rules are a niche market and they should be treated as such. An addendum to the rules, not a core mechanic.

Oh and I would love a sea based campaign, Avast me hearties!

Sovereign Court

Spawn of Rovagug wrote:
snip...

Hey, Spawn of Rovagug, watch out for spoilers!

Spoiler:
I too have inferred from snippets mentioned by JJ and others that Ameiko is from a noble Tian family but this could be a spoiler for the AP. For all we know even Ameiko herself might not know yet...

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
Enlight_Bystand wrote:
drayen wrote:
I would love to see an AP in Taldor. Make it your experimental AP for the year. It could be based on the intracacies of Taldan society where role play would be stressed and combat would be of tertiary concern. A social AP would be a great change. Combat outside of an occasional duel or a singular rescue mission shouldn't be necessary in such a campaign. Taldor is a hive of scum and villiany dressed in the latest fashions with the best educations and most noble breeding. You haven't faced a true hag until you've been slashed by the razor sharp wit of an elderly matron.
As above, Jade Regent is the experimental AP for the 2011/12 cycle, so the later one will be reasonably standard.

Not necessarily.

The "experimental/safe" route for APs is something that was important when we first started Pathfinder, but with each AP in the can and with each experimental AP being more popular than the "safe" ones, expect us to shift this around. After all, Serpent's Skull and Carrion Crown are both what I'd call "Safe" APs and they're back to back.

What I've got planned after Jade Regent is, perhaps, the most experimental topic for an AP we've done yet.

Now thats just mean. Especially after saying a couple of posts up you won't tell us about it for 6-8 months.

Ok granted now it has been 4 months since that post nearly 5, so any hints yet?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Gorbacz wrote:
How would it sell ? Poorly.

That's certainly the conventional wisdom.

Also conventional wisdom: Adventures don't sell well.

Is epic level play a niche market because no one's interested? Or because there was barely any support of that kind of play beyond the core book? Hard to say.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
How would it sell ? Poorly.

That's certainly the conventional wisdom.

Also conventional wisdom: Adventures don't sell well.

Is epic level play a niche market because no one's interested? Or because there was barely any support of that kind of play beyond the core book? Hard to say.

Clever.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I can only say for myself that high level gaming can get tedious as well as strenuous. I have played in a campaign that went to level 21 with Maure Castle in 3.5, and as a GM, I have had a Shackled City campaign up to level 19 on 3.5, and I currently have a Savage Tide campaign at level 16 and a Rise of the Runelords campaign at level 15, both Pathfinder RPG. I have fun on both of these campaigns, but nevertheless, honestly, I'll be happy when I'm through with them.

Epic level play (i.e. beyond level 20) just scares me.

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