Build Help: Ranger - Multiclass?


Advice


I'm looking for help for a Ranger-Multiclass for flavor, but I'm having trouble picking between:
Magus - Eldritch Archer + Arcane Archer
Magus - Eldritch Archer w/o Arcane Archer
Hinterlander Prestige class
- Open to suggestions for others.

The GM has green-lit any of the above ideas.

Our current campaign has a lot of homebrew elements to it as far as lore and setting; there's also a lot of mythology involved, and the GM has said he's planning on going Mythic. He's also using alternate crafting rules, fame and prestige, and homebrew to help get us magical items at a faster rate to fight what he has planned for us, where we're going to also be leaders/generals of towns so we can use Mass Combat as well. (GM: "There's so many cool things out there that no one ever uses, and I want to use them.")

Currently have 9 levels in Ranger, and definitely taking the 10th in it as well to pick up Point Blank Master; I tend to act as a shield for our casters in case something thinks they look tasty with ketchup and gets around the frontline fighters or to help build a barrier shoulder-to-shoulder with the fighters in small rooms.
I want to take a few levels in something else, and even considered Paladin for a while. Even if it's not the "best" option to multiclass, I want to do it for the fun.

Considerations in the build:
- Largest enemy is Undead with ungodly amounts of Dex and DR/Piercing, weak to fire (DMG +50%)
- General theme is Norse Mythology (and therein, protecting the commonfolk).
- Magic damage tends to be a bonus.

My lvl 10 build is as follows:
Half-Elf Ranger
Adjusted ability scores:
STR: 18
DEX: 20
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 16
CHA: 12

Animal Companion: Wolf w/ +2 Darkleaf Lamellar, Cloak of Resistance +1

Magical Items of concern:
+2 Composite Bow of +3 Str, Adaptive, Holy
+2 Darkleak Lamellar
+1 Rapier
Mask, Stalker
Boots of the Winterlands
Efficient Quiver
Cloak of Resistance +1
Bracers of Archery, Lesser
Handy Haversack
Iuon Stone for +2 STR w/ Shining Wayfinder
- There are lots of little ones my character has because I've kitted him as a survivalist, and lots of unslotted wondrous items are great for that.

Favored Enemies: Undead x3, Monstrous Humanoid, Dragon

Traits: Deft Dodger, Hunter's Blood

Feats:
NOTE - for part of the Fame & Prestige, GM added a bunch of ways to get feats no one takes because while they're cool, they're never part of an optimum build, and he wants our characters to get OP so he can throw OP stuff at us and have epic battles.

Half-Elf Skill Focus on Perception
Manyshot
Rapid Shot
Point Blank Shot
Point Blank Master
Deadly Aim
Weapon Focus, Longbow
Alertness (Bonus)
Diehard (Bonus)
Dodge
Endurance (Ranger feat)
Evasion (Ranger feat)
Fleet x2 (Bonus)
Stealthy (Bonus)
Self-Sufficient (Bonus)
Master Craftsman, Armor (Bonus)
_____________________________________________________

My current thoughts:
2 Eldrich Archer, 2 Arcane Archer: If I'm going Eldritch Archer anyway, I probably don't need to worry about picking up Arcane Archer.
Pros:
- Imbue Arrow
- Pick up a 3rd level in Eldritch Archer while I'm at it.
Cons:
-Avoids bonuses to Favored Enemy.
-4 lvls minimum not advancing animal companion.

Eldritch Archer: I'm thinking about a 2 lvl dip here to pick up Spellstrike; with the bow I can be doing 2d6 Shocking Grasp when needed.
- Pros: Quick way to get some extra damage and Arcane spells.
- Cons: Don't advance Animal companion much, but this avoids that problem the least.

Hinterlander: 6 lvls in this if I go this route, minimum. Defended Hearth makes too much sense for the campaign to pass it by if I go any levels into Hinterlander.
- Pros: Fits campaign well.
Cons:
- Doesn't give many advantages over Ranger
- Doesn't really get "cool" until 6 levels in.
- Companion levels, as before.

If you have advice on other things to look at, please feel free.

If you have some strong reasons to stick with Ranger, please let me know as well. Understand that right now I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of what I'd get for Ranger by taking a multiclass, the biggest downside I see with that is Animal Companion levels.


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I would not do that. Any of it.

Rangers get access to Instant Enemy at, what, level 11? Now you drop that sweet +6/+6 on anyone you come across.

Get different types of arrows to help with DR. Take the Clustered Shots feat.


VoodistMonk wrote:

I would not do that. Any of it.

Rangers get access to Instant Enemy at, what, level 11? Now you drop that sweet +6/+6 on anyone you come across.

Get different types of arrows to help with DR. Take the Clustered Shots feat.

Instant enemy isn't as convincing; I would get more damage output from being able to use Spellstrike through the bow plus added versatility. I would get two 3rd lvl spells, and getting +6 DMG each for my only 3rd lvl spell seems like a poor trade to me.

Clustered Shots seems like a solid idea regardless. Thanks. That wasn't something on my radar, but now it's near the top of my list.

I'm already planning on buying Blunt Arrows, which I should have done far earlier.


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Arcayenneist wrote:


Instant enemy isn't as convincing; I would get more damage output from being able to use Spellstrike through the bow plus added versatility. I would get two 3rd lvl spells, and getting +6 DMG each for my only 3rd lvl spell seems like a poor trade to me.

Instant Enemy is 2 levels away. By the time your caster level is high enough to gain versatility and the higher damaging spells you could have been doing +6 to anything for a long time.


If you go with Magus you are giving up full BAB for medium BAB. That delays things like bonus for deadly aim and other feats as well as lowering your chance to hit. This does not affect your first hit, but your latter hits will see the effect more. If you go Arcane Archer that lowers your caster level which makes your spell strike a lot less effective.

It also means your ranger abilities are not going up either. At 10th level your favored enemy bonus is +6, but at 15th you can jump that to +8. Also, your animal companion will be frozen as well. I don’t see boon companion on your feats so that is something else to consider. The higher-level spells for the ranger have a lot of spells that can boost your companion. Animal Growth is a 4th level Ranger spell.

Dark Archive

VoodistMonk wrote:

I would not do that. Any of it.

Rangers get access to Instant Enemy at, what, level 11? Now you drop that sweet +6/+6 on anyone you come across.

Get different types of arrows to help with DR. Take the Clustered Shots feat.

This is the best advice so far


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
VoodistMonk wrote:

I would not do that. Any of it.

Rangers get access to Instant Enemy at, what, level 11? Now you drop that sweet +6/+6 on anyone you come across.

Get different types of arrows to help with DR. Take the Clustered Shots feat.

^This.

With 9 levels in ranger already, trying to multiclass magus, magus + arcane archer, or hinterlander will disappointing. Magus and hinterlander cause you to lose BAB, magus is an Int-based caster, and hinterlander's spellcasting increases are mostly wasted for a ranger as the casting class.

If you are looking for a "useful" multiclass option, then a dip bloodrager might allow you to be a more effective "switch-hitter" when protecting the "squishy" casters. Full BAB, bloodrage, and other bonuses (depending on bloodline and possibly archetype); you might even want to consider 4 levels of bloodrager (Draconic bloodline) and 4 levels of dragon disciple to boost Str and natural armor.


Arcayenneist wrote:
I'm looking for help for a Ranger-Multiclass for flavor, but I'm having trouble picking between: ...

well - you got flavor.

I'm gonna throw some ideas around
You've focused on a Dex build which is not bad (rapier & bow) but not as good as a Str build or elven curve blade. Scimitar with dawnflower is another choice. Branching into ranged attacks is good but there aren't enough feats to go around as archers are pretty feat intensive. If you were to go this route I'd suggest an archetype and try to dump some of the many Ranger class features to try to focus the build more. Ranger's main claim to fame is their "favored enemy bonus" so that's what you want to preserve.

I'm all for dipping to round out a class BUT that class needs to have the room to do that and not suffer too much. Ranger is pretty spread out "as is" so dipping generally into another martial class is a bad idea. The reason to dip is to pick up things you don't have or if you are extremely lucky, pump what your main class already has.

With Ranger(slow & minimal divine caster) for arcane bolstering I can see dipping into Wizard(if you have a 12 INT) or maybe Arcanist. Draconic bloodline was mentioned but remember you'll be operating with a weapon in hand.

Ranger's don't really need precision damage (Rogue) or unarmed strike (Monk) but everyone can use +3 to all your saves. Fighter has FEATS but it's another martial class... Brawler might be a better choice.

If you want to bump your divine casting Cleric(as you already have Wis). Bloodrager was mentioned as Rage IS useful.

If you need skills I'd go Bard as they're different so you're looking to pick up that flexibility and bards have flaaaavor. Skalds are here also.


Instant Enemy doesn't work against targets that are already your favored enemies. And usually you will pick common or dangerous foes as favored enemies, reducing the potential of the spell.

Nevertheless, when it works, it's pretty good.


SheepishEidolon wrote:

Instant Enemy doesn't work against targets that are already your favored enemies. And usually you will pick common or dangerous foes as favored enemies, reducing the potential of the spell.

Nevertheless, when it works, it's pretty good.

That's why the trick is you pick one enemy type that's super common (like humanoid (human) and then all your other picks are enemies that are super unlikely to come up. That way everyone remains a viable target for Instant Enemy. Grab a wand or pearls of power to keep using it all day. Efficient Quiver can let you grab that wand during combat easily. And if you can find a way to make weaponwand permanent you can put your wand in your bow and really have fun.

If your GM allows retraining, you can take other enemies at lower levels that show up in the campaign and then retrain away from them to maximize the use of Instant Enemy.


If you are going to Multiclass into Arcane Archer as a Ranger its much better to go into Deadeye Devotee Arcane Archer. That way you scale your Ranger spells and can get Instant Enemy at level 12. It also trades Seeker Arrow for delivering Cure or Harm spells using your bow's range and getting extra heal/damage which is nice.

(Note you do not have to use your spell slot, just need to be casting it).


Ranger
Instant Enemy:T3 is good but a 3rd SplLvl Ranger/Hunter spell.
You could pump your spellcasting via Clr or Drd but 3rd Spl Lvl means 5th CstrLvl & Samsaran and that's a hefty price to pay AND Double Indemnity as Fav'd Enemy runs on basic Ranger levels... so doesn't look effective.
Hunter offers some benefit but no Fav'd Enemy in the base class.
I like the Ranger Fortune-Finder archetype


Azothath wrote:
Arcayenneist wrote:
I'm looking for help for a Ranger-Multiclass for flavor, but I'm having trouble picking between: ...

well - you got flavor.

I'm gonna throw some ideas around
You've focused on a Dex build which is not bad (rapier & bow) but not as good as a Str build or elven curve blade. Scimitar with dawnflower is another choice. Branching into ranged attacks is good but there aren't enough feats to go around as archers are pretty feat intensive. If you were to go this route I'd suggest an archetype and try to dump some of the many Ranger class features to try to focus the build more. Ranger's main claim to fame is their "favored enemy bonus" so that's what you want to preserve.

I'm all for dipping to round out a class BUT that class needs to have the room to do that and not suffer too much. Ranger is pretty spread out "as is" so dipping generally into another martial class is a bad idea. The reason to dip is to pick up things you don't have or if you are extremely lucky, pump what your main class already has.

With Ranger(slow & minimal divine caster) for arcane bolstering I can see dipping into Wizard(if you have a 12 INT) or maybe Arcanist. Draconic bloodline was mentioned but remember you'll be operating with a weapon in hand.

Ranger's don't really need precision damage (Rogue) or unarmed strike (Monk) but everyone can use +3 to all your saves. Fighter has FEATS but it's another martial class... Brawler might be a better choice.

If you want to bump your divine casting Cleric(as you already have Wis). Bloodrager was mentioned as Rage IS useful.

If you need skills I'd go Bard as they're different so you're looking to pick up that flexibility and bards have flaaaavor. Skalds are here also.

Switch-hitter: This actually was my build for a while; I started out with Quickdraw.

Problem is, once I got Rapidshot + Multi-shot + a second attack, it stopped making sense closing distance in all but the most dire scenarios.
With a homebrew magic item, I was able to make some sacrifices to swap Quickdraw for Deadly Aim, planning at level 10 to get Point Blank Master; I can close range to block enemies as necessary and fire at a 5' increment.

Bloodrager: Interesting and worth my looking into, because it could even play into character backstory already generated as well as existing lore.


Temperans wrote:

If you are going to Multiclass into Arcane Archer as a Ranger its much better to go into Deadeye Devotee Arcane Archer. That way you scale your Ranger spells and can get Instant Enemy at level 12. It also trades Seeker Arrow for delivering Cure or Harm spells using your bow's range and getting extra heal/damage which is nice.

(Note you do not have to use your spell slot, just need to be casting it).

So then Instant Enemy wouldn't be nearly as helpful given the current build.

I'm also not seeing Deadeye Devotee anywhere.


Arcayenneist wrote:
I'm also not seeing Deadeye Devotee anywhere.

It's an archetype for Arcane Archer, released as an official blog post.


NEW PLAN:
What archetype of Rogue/Unchained Rogue would make the most sense for a ranger, with Trapfinding as a must?

So, my previous build plan of 2lvls Eldritch Archer, 3+lvls Arcane Archer are looking more complicated than I planned, and my character is going down more of a sneaky-progression path. He was just "vaccinated" against the virus that created the homebrew-zombie/vampire plague and gained Darkvision, Scent, and Blindfighting as a result.

Now, it very much feels like making my now level 10 (200xp from lvl 11) Ranger into a Ranger/Rogue makes much more sense.

We recently lost our Rogue/Sorceror, and the duties of finding and disabling traps is now on me, and we have no way to disable magical traps - which has become a very, very obvious need, only mitigated by my substantial HP and a wealth of healing spells.

So I'm looking at either Rogue or Unchained Rogue if my GM will allow it. Given the recent developments, Unchained might even make more sense, as my character is now supposed to have a low-grade vampirism, infected with a strain that was originally prototyping being a sneaky supersoldier, so the Weapon Finesse makes sense.

The final option there is Slayer, but the overlap with Ranger is a bit much, and it would require a 2 level dip to get Trapfinding as a Slayer Talent, whereas I could do a 2 level dip into Rogue and get a totally different Rogue talent doing the same thing. Going Rogue gives 11 more class skills, most of which I have points in, so the instant skill boost would be substantial.

As an aside, Bloodrager would really fit into the flavor, considering my PC now has to make DC15 Will saves to not go into a bloodrage when exposed to blood.


It might not be the most optimal, but slipping in 4 levels of Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue (unchained if possible) wouldn't hurt you overly much. You'd only get a single dice of sneak attack (plus one more with a feat) but it would unlock quite a bit of niche abilities you could get access to: rogue talents, ninja tricks, arcane spells, sorc/wiz wand access, trapfinding, dex to damage with a melee weapon, debilitating injury, etc. You'd pick up Evasion early and could probably pick a ranger archetype that trades it away.

Ranger 16/Rogue 4 is a solid choice, especially with the Instant Enemy spell. Personally, I might go with Ranger 12/Rogue 8. More sneak attack, more rogue talents, 3rd level spells on both sides, and I'd use the Ranger Hunter's Bond for your allies. Get an animal companion through the Animal Ally feat chain and act as a quasi-bard to hand out bonuses to your allies when fighting your favored enemies. Since you are a half-elf already, their favored class bonus for the ranger (The duration of the ranger’s companion bond increases by 1 round.) would be perfect.

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