Pathfinder Lost Omens: Tian Xia Character Guide

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Pathfinder Lost Omens: Tian Xia Character Guide

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Countless Peoples, Countless Techniques!

The boundless continent of Tian Xia features innumerable peoples, each with their own rich history and practices. Bring your character to life with this 136-page guidebook crammed full of everything a player might need to build a hero hailing from or journeying through these vast lands, including:

  • Six new ancestries, including the reincarnating samsaran, trickster tanuki, and shadowy wayang, as well as Tian-inspired additional feats and heritages for existing ancestries, like the peachchild leshy, bakuwa lizardfolk, and gandharva sprite!
  • Feats inspired by Tian Xia’s diverse arts and practices, from new elemental medicine to alchemically fortified cuisine to how the zodiac can guide your character’s path.
  • Spectacular magical and martial techniques to vanquish the toughest opponents, whether that's through weightless sword arts or by borrowing the ancient power of magical familiars.
  • Dazzling new magic items and weapons to forge or find, from the subtle kotodama whistle to legendary artifacts like the staff of Sun Wukong.

Written by: Eren Ahn, Jeremy Blum, Logan Bonner, Alyx Bui, James Case, Banana Chan, Rick Chia, Hiromi Cota, Dana Ebert, Eleanor Ferron, Basheer Ghouse, John Godek III, Sen H.H.S., Joan Hong, Daniel Kwan, Jacky Leung, Jesse J. Leung, Monte Lin, Jessie “Aki” Lo, Adam Ma, Ashley Moni, Collette Quach, Christopher Rondeau, Joaquin Kyle “Makapatag” Saavedra, Michael Sayre, Shahreena Shahrani, Kienna Shaw, Philip Shen, Tan Shao Han, Mari Tokuda, Ruvaid Virk, Viditya Voleti, Grady Wang, and Jay Zhang.

ISBN-13: 978-1-64078-579-3

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Pathfinder Lost Omens: Tian Xia Character Guide is also available as:

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Some of the data is terrible

3/5

I can forgive the strength of spirit warrior and fan dancer. But I can't forgive wandering chef's poor stats. Can you imagine the pain we felt when we saw this archetype while dreaming of being a gourmet adventurer? It's not even weak, it doesn't work in the game! I'll give it 3 stars in honor of the wonderful ancestries and art, so please fix wandering chef as soon as possible.


Great Themed Addition to Golarion and Player Options

5/5

Found myself enjoying this book much more than I expected as a dug into it.

At first glance, it felt light (partly because it followed the core and Tian Xia physically heavier books) and partly because when doing a first pass, I skipped over the "people" section because I assumed it was just world-guide type survey of people with smattering of character options that I'd look at later.

That was a mistake soon rectified by a deeper read. There are some nicely written options that expand and illuminate the Tian Xia setting and aren't just simple reskins of existing content.

The authors did a great job of providing colorful, interesting expressions of Tian Xia for a PF2E setting, a place that should be and is very different from the Inner Sea region. Definitely some areas I'd like to try out and will keep an eye out for more APs set in Tian Xia

Well done.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
ornathopter wrote:
I've been a bit confused about the Spirit Warrior and Cultivator archetypes - it seems like they have two mutually exclusive specialties, but within the same archetype (kaiju defense vs trickster bane, good cultivator vs death cultivator). How does that work? (Also, do the Kaiju Defenders get any particularly fun, kaiju-themed abilities, like atomic breath?)

They are just different paths within the same archetypes. The Cultivator must choose between them and cannot choose both, but the Spirit Warrior could take both of those feats as long as they spend a 4th level feat slot and a higher level feat slot, though you might want a more level-appropriate feat for that higher level slot. I will paraphrase and summarize the answers.

For the Cultivator, in addition to both feats being 10th level, Ghost-Path Epiphany sanctifies you as Unholy and Three Pecks of Dew sanctifies you with the Holy trait.

For the Spirit Warrior, the 4th level feats - Kaiju Defense Oath, Tricksterbane Oath, and Sacred Wilds Oath - all focus on methods and mandatory edicts to deal with different types of creatures; none of them contradict one another.

Kaiju Defense Oath - bonuses to damage vs. creatures at least 2 sizes larger than you & to saves vs. kaiju hazard with an edict to protect others from massive creatures. Also, this is just one feat - so no kaiju-themed powers here.

Sacred Wilds Oath - can use Diplomacy to Make an Impression on and make very simple Requests of animals while getting bonuses to Making an Impression on fey, beast, or Kami and must take an edict to aid any animal or nature spirit in need.

Tricksterbane Oath - bonuses to Perception and Recall Knowledge checks to detect and learn, respectively, about malevolent shapechangers. As part of the Spirit Warrior’s Overwhelming Combination Strike ( granted in the dedication) you can try to counteract 1 polymorph effect. The edict is that you must reveal and slay evil or predatory shapechangers.

Wayfinders

The cultivator dedication grants a domain spell from Divine Mysteries which doesn't release until November...


Corbin-626 wrote:
The cultivator dedication grants a domain spell from Divine Mysteries which doesn't release until November...

The mechanics for it might be from Gods and Magic, which already released, so it may not be that big a deal.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm not sure of I'm just missing something or its just intended as a modifier, but The Wandering Chef Dedication mentions a modification to the Alchemical Crafting feat, but doesn't appear to give it as part of the Dedication, nor does anything else in the dedication seem to give alchemical food formulas. Other than spending money to buy formulas, I'm not sure how your actually supposed to use the feat as written without also purchasing a formula book and formulas.
Player Core 2 seems to have a similar issue with the Herbalist and Poisoner Dedications also not inherently giving any starting formulas.

Am I just missing something? - Thanks

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
ckobbe wrote:

I'm not sure of I'm just missing something or its just intended as a modifier, but The Wandering Chef Dedication mentions a modification to the Alchemical Crafting feat, but doesn't appear to give it as part of the Dedication, nor does anything else in the dedication seem to give alchemical food formulas. Other than spending money to buy formulas, I'm not sure how your actually supposed to use the feat as written without also purchasing a formula book and formulas.

Player Core 2 seems to have a similar issue with the Herbalist and Poisoner Dedications also not inherently giving any starting formulas.

Am I just missing something? - Thanks

Herbalist: give you Advanced Alchemy Benefits that give you Alchemical Crafting feat that give you 4 formula. Note that herbalist says you don't need a formula book, you memorize them off the top of your head.

Poisoner: give you Advanced Alchemy Benefits, like herbalist. And like Herbalist, it says that you don't need a book.

Wandering Chef: give you Quick Alchemy Benefits that give you Alchemical Crafting feat, like the advanced alchemy benefits for the other dedications.

The "benefits" these archetypes gives are on Player Core 2 Page 174, in the Archetypes introduction. The two archetypes in PC2 mention the page number, but I guess the Tian Xia Character Guide might have been written before the exact page was set in stone, thus they didn't reference it, sadlly.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Elfteiroh wrote:
ckobbe wrote:

I'm not sure of I'm just missing something or its just intended as a modifier, but The Wandering Chef Dedication mentions a modification to the Alchemical Crafting feat, but doesn't appear to give it as part of the Dedication, nor does anything else in the dedication seem to give alchemical food formulas. Other than spending money to buy formulas, I'm not sure how your actually supposed to use the feat as written without also purchasing a formula book and formulas.

Player Core 2 seems to have a similar issue with the Herbalist and Poisoner Dedications also not inherently giving any starting formulas.

Am I just missing something? - Thanks

Herbalist: give you Advanced Alchemy Benefits that give you Alchemical Crafting feat that give you 4 formula. Note that herbalist says you don't need a formula book, you memorize them off the top of your head.

Poisoner: give you Advanced Alchemy Benefits, like herbalist. And like Herbalist, it says that you don't need a book.

Wandering Chef: give you Quick Alchemy Benefits that give you Alchemical Crafting feat, like the advanced alchemy benefits for the other dedications.

The "benefits" these archetypes gives are on Player Core 2 Page 174, in the Archetypes introduction. The two archetypes in PC2 mention the page number, but I guess the Tian Xia Character Guide might have been written before the exact page was set in stone, thus they didn't reference it, sadlly.

I was under the impression that since the Alchemical Crafting feat was listed under the second paragraph of the main Alchemy class feature for the Alchemist and since the Dedication each only give a subsection of the Alchemy class feature (ie either the Advance Alchemy or Quick Alchemy benefits) that technically the Alchemical Crafting feat would not be included.

Your interpretation completely makes sense to me, and makes sense as the intent since both of the subsections reference formula books. Not trying to be argumentative, I just wish as written the access to the Alchemical Crafting feat was explicit instead of implied.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Quote:
Your interpretation completely makes sense to me, and makes sense as the intent since both of the subsections reference formula books. Not trying...

Sorry for the double reply and quoting myself, unfortunately I came to the following conclusion after the edit period had expired.

So after rereading the Alchemist's Alchemy section and all three Dedications I realized the intent probably isnt to give any of the Dedications the Alchemical Crafting feat at all since it would allow the Dedications to craft any alchemical item. Each Dedication instead gives the ability to craft a narrow subset of alchemical items in the Dedication itself.

Wandering Chef allows Quick Alchemy to create "consumables, and the consumables must be alchemical food"

Herbalist allows Advanced Alchemy to create "alchemical consumables with the healing trait"

Poisoner allows Advanced Alchemy to create "alchemical poison consumables"

Alchemical food is a little wobbly since it isn't an actual game trait as far as I can tell, just a designation for certain items in the Tian Xia Character Guide, Treasure Vault, and Grand Bazaar. But at least they are all called out as alchemical foods in those books.

So after research and reflection, I think what the Dedications are actually missing is granting four level 1 or 2 formulas for items with the indicated traits and that's what I will run with going forward. That's a potential 8 gp savings for a 2nd level character whose average wealth per the GM Core should be 18 gp.


Would anyone be able to give the heritages for the samsaran and the yaksha? I'm trying to make some character ideas, and I'd love to be able to conceptualize them better with heritage stuff.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Samsaran

Healer Samsaran: past lives as healers: Medicine skill
Mountaineer Samsaran: past lives around cold weather mountain tops: cold resistance
Oracular Samsaran: past lives exploring spirituality: innate cantrip
Sanctuary Samsaran: past lives in Samsaran sanctuaries: fortune reroll on missed Recall Knowledge check
Wilderness Samsaran: past lives in wilderness and remote areas: Survival skill

Yaksha
All have additional required edicts based on their protection vows

Deny the Firstborn Pursuit: protect from cruel fey: mental resistance & bonus on Recall Knowledge for fey
Deny Lady Nanbyo's Charity: protect from natural disasters: bonus bulk and athletic check to Force Open and Escape
Deny the Traitors' Rebirth: protect from asuras and rakshasas: darkvision and Perception bonus
Respite of the Cloudless Path: protect the lost: environmental extremes lessened and bonus to saves vs environmental hazards
Respite of Loam and Leaf: protect form blight and pollution: primal cantrip and plant trait
Respite of a Thousand Roofs: protect and feed the poor: Crafting and Cooking Lore skill and Improved Tool feat


Are Kitsune rewrited on the book? Are they better than the basic version?

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
ckobbe wrote:
[...] Your interpretation completely makes sense to me, and makes sense as the intent since both of the subsections reference formula books. Not trying to be argumentative, I just wish as written the access to the Alchemical Crafting feat was explicit instead of implied.

Don't look at the class. They are not giving the Alchemist's class features. They are giving the general archetypes benefits defined in page 174 of Player Core 2. And it IS explicit that it gives the feat, and it's the very first thing these "benefits" mentions.

Player Core 2 p174 wrote:

Alchemical Archetypes

Some archetypes give you the ability to use alchemy in a similar manner to an alchemist and say that you get the advanced alchemy benefits or Quick Alchemy benefits.

And:

Player Core 2 p174 wrote:
Advanced Alchemy Benefits: You gain the Alchemical Crafting feat (Player Core 252) if you don’t already have it. [...]
Player Core 2 p174 wrote:
Quick Alchemy Benefits: You gain the Alchemical Crafting feat (Player Core 252) if you don’t already have it. [...]

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Alaryth wrote:
Are Kitsune rewrited on the book? Are they better than the basic version?

There's new heritages and feats, but no ancestry have been reprinted here. Everything is completly new.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Elfteiroh wrote:
ckobbe wrote:
[...] Your interpretation completely makes sense to me, and makes sense as the intent since both of the subsections reference formula books. Not trying to be argumentative, I just wish as written the access to the Alchemical Crafting feat was explicit instead of implied.

Don't look at the class. They are not giving the Alchemist's class features. They are giving the general archetypes benefits defined in page 174 of Player Core 2. And it IS explicit that it gives the feat, and it's the very first thing these "benefits" mentions.

Player Core 2 p174 wrote:

Alchemical Archetypes

Some archetypes give you the ability to use alchemy in a similar manner to an alchemist and say that you get the advanced alchemy benefits or Quick Alchemy benefits.

And:

Player Core 2 p174 wrote:
Advanced Alchemy Benefits: You gain the Alchemical Crafting feat (Player Core 252) if you don’t already have it. [...]
Player Core 2 p174 wrote:
Quick Alchemy Benefits: You gain the Alchemical Crafting feat (Player Core 252) if you don’t already have it. [...]

Thank you so much! I doubled checked the archetype rules in the Player Core 1, but completely forgot to follow up with the Player Core 2 section to see if anything had been added. You even mentioned it in your original post and I still missed it. Feeling like and idiot, but at least now I know lol! Thank you for your patience!

Wayfinders

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Corbin-626 wrote:
The cultivator dedication grants a domain spell from Divine Mysteries which doesn't release until November...

Yeah, adapt self is from Gods & Magic, so it should work (gotta adjust the traits, dropping transmutation and adding presumably manipulate and concentrate, but that's about it).


ckobbe wrote:

Samsaran

Healer Samsaran: past lives as healers: Medicine skill
Mountaineer Samsaran: past lives around cold weather mountain tops: cold resistance
Oracular Samsaran: past lives exploring spirituality: innate cantrip
Sanctuary Samsaran: past lives in Samsaran sanctuaries: fortune reroll on missed Recall Knowledge check
Wilderness Samsaran: past lives in wilderness and remote areas: Survival skill

Yaksha
All have additional required edicts based on their protection vows

Deny the Firstborn Pursuit: protect from cruel fey: mental resistance & bonus on Recall Knowledge for fey
Deny Lady Nanbyo's Charity: protect from natural disasters: bonus bulk and athletic check to Force Open and Escape
Deny the Traitors' Rebirth: protect from asuras and rakshasas: darkvision and Perception bonus
Respite of the Cloudless Path: protect the lost: environmental extremes lessened and bonus to saves vs environmental hazards
Respite of Loam and Leaf: protect form blight and pollution: primal cantrip and plant trait
Respite of a Thousand Roofs: protect and feed the poor: Crafting and Cooking Lore skill and Improved Tool feat

Thank you so much! Is there anything interesting about the Howling Aspect that was revealed in the Lunar New Year stream?

Dark Archive

Any news on the spirit warriors ability to share runes or make ranged attacks? It sounds like those are both L6 feats but some more description would be nice.

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Red Griffyn wrote:
Any news on the spirit warriors ability to share runes or make ranged attacks? It sounds like those are both L6 feats but some more description would be nice.

So the archetype shtick is to fight with both your "fist" unarmed attack and a one-handed melee weapon (or melee weapon with agile or finess), and you get Overwhelming Combination [1 action] (Flourish), that is like Flurry of Blow, but one "fist" strike, and one weapon strike, instead of two unarmed.

At lvl 6, Cutting Heaven, Crushing Earth let you apply the runes from your invested Handwraps to a single weapon you are wielding that you can use with Overwhelming Combination. Also, when you hit a target with one of your two attack, you make them off-guard to your next attack with the other (hit fist -> offguard to weapon, and vice versa) until the end of your next turn. So you pretty much "infinite combo" them as long as you alternate.

Lvl 6 Sword-light Wave [2 Action] let you use your weapon's or fist's proficiency and runes to make a ranged strike within 60ft (so hard cap on range like a spell), but ALL damages by the attack is converted to spirit. So can't use it against a soul-less construct. (And the weapon must be one that fit the Overwhelming Combination's requirement. That's true of ALL of their abilities that use a weapon.)

I personally really like the lvl 10 feat that let you break your weapon as a reaction once per 10 minutes to cancel an attack (to you or an ally in reach) that would hit and damage, and Swap to another weapon. Or the lvl 12 one that give you a reaction when you or an ally is targetted by a strike, to try to disarm their weapon, disrupting the attack on a success and legit stealing the weapon on a crit.

Dark Archive

Elfteiroh wrote:

So the archetype shtick is to fight with both your "fist" unarmed attack and a one-handed melee weapon (or melee weapon with agile or finess), and you get Overwhelming Combination [1 action] (Flourish), that is like Flurry of Blow, but one "fist" strike, and one weapon strike, instead of two unarmed.

At lvl 6, Cutting Heaven, Crushing Earth let you apply the runes from your invested Handwraps to a single weapon you are wielding that you can use with Overwhelming Combination. Also, when you hit a target with one of your two attack, you make them off-guard to your next attack with the other (hit fist -> offguard to weapon, and vice versa) until the end of your next turn. So you pretty much "infinite combo" them as long as you alternate.

Lvl 6 Sword-light Wave [2 Action] let you use your weapon's or fist's proficiency and runes to make a ranged strike within 60ft (so hard cap on range like a spell), but ALL damages by the attack is converted to spirit. So can't use it against a soul-less construct. (And the weapon must be one that fit the Overwhelming Combination's requirement. That's true of ALL of their abilities that use a weapon.)

I personally really like the lvl 10 feat that let you break your weapon as a reaction once per 10 minutes to cancel an attack (to you or an ally in reach) that would hit and damage, and Swap to another weapon. Or the lvl 12 one that give you a reaction when you or an ally is targetted by a strike, to try to disarm their weapon, disrupting the attack on a success and legit stealing the weapon on a crit.

This sounds like so much fun. Switch hitting can get so complicated in this system and a weapon/unarmed switch hitter is basically none-existent up until now due to the cost of runes. Its too bad it isn't L4, because at L6 its forcing you to invest in weapon/handwraps for a few levels for no good reason.

This is super exciting. I don't think you'll be able to get a fighter maxed out in weapon + fist (unless you want a 1D4 brawling weapon, want to burn L7 weapon weird oils once per hour, or wait until L10 and take the sword master archetype), but for other martials (especially swashbuckler/rogue) this sounds like an awesome way to flexibly fight with your body/weapon. I mean, even war-blooded weapon alchemist could make use of this.

Funny combinations already come to mind. Dwarves have a L5 ability called spark fist (+1 fire damage per weapon damage dice) on your fist. Talos has a L1 ferrous soul ability that can give it modular B/P/S. The golem grafter has a feat that ups your fist to a 1D8 (swap your hand for a clay hand). The stonebrawler archetype does something similar (stance for a 1D8 stone covered fist -> its a named strike so might need GM intervention). The wooden fists spell explicitly makes your fist 1D6, 2D6, 3D6, and 4D6 and reach at spell rank 1/3/7/9. There are ancestries that can add 1d4 persistent damage crits with unarmed strikes (L5 for orc, L9 for most others). You could stack a number of weapon siphons if you'll generally be following up strikes with the fist. Probably more weird options.

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Red Griffyn wrote:

[snipped by Elfteiroh to limit tunelling]

This is super exciting. I don't think you'll be able to get a fighter maxed out in weapon + fist (unless you want a 1D4 brawling weapon, want to burn L7 weapon weird oils once per hour, or wait until L10 and take the sword master archetype), but for other martials (especially swashbuckler/rogue) this sounds like an awesome way to flexibly fight with your body/weapon. I mean, even war-blooded weapon alchemist could make use of this.

After getting the runes at lvl 6, you also get the nice free off-guard!

Fighter -> Choose either your weapon or fist as you specialty. It's now +2 above your other attack. I'll assume the weapon is also agile, to reduce the MAP footprint.
Attack first with your non-specialty. Good chances of hit.
Attack second with your specialty. It's agile, so +4 MAP. BUT it's your specialty, thus effectively "only" +2 MAP... And the foe is off-guard... so effectively no MAP! :P And that was only one action! And it's still off-guard to your next non-specialty attack, that would be effectively... +6 MAP. BUT THEN, your 3rd action can be a specialty strike AGAIN. That would be, effectively, +4 MAP if you managed to hit that last strike. You're not quite a legendary ranger flurry, but it's close... and only at lvl 6! xD (So, in summary: +0 -> +0 -> +6 -> +4)
That's not *big* damages cause of agile limitation, and that's in the very best case "white room" situation, but it's nothing to scoff at. Just need to use the "bonuses" to counteract the MAP.

You can also focus the specialty bonuses on the "first"/main attack, but then the secondary one will get the most of the MAP penalties, and you're less likely to get a second attack with that main attack, BUT when you do, it's more likely to hit, or even crit. Effective MAP numbers in this scenario, assuming best case of all hits: -2 -> +2 -> +4 -> +6... Actually, that's a nice gradual slope lol. Last two are swapped, and it's easier to drop that last, less likely to hit attack, when my previous scenario had the dangerous strike on that earlier 3rd attack. Uh. Might actually be safer if you really want a 3rd attack. Uh!

So yeah. There's lot of possible permutations! And you can change it on the fly depending on situations. xD


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Got my copy!

Dark Archive

Yeah, but if I'm a fighter I want the crit increase on my first attack. Especially if I'm using say a falcata. You're probably better to actually Falcata + Fist + electric arc with your two remaining actions to be honest (at least on the faster spell DC class progression classes like monk/ranger you are).

As a fighter you could use an aldori dueling sword to get them both at +2. At L8 you can jump into the aldori dueling fighter archetype and retrain your preferred weapon group from 'x' to 'brawling' which will get you a dex heavy fighter that is swinging the sword/fist at the fighter's max proficiency. You won't get an amazing weapon like a falcata but you'll get your fist/sword both at +2. I suspect the falcata version will be more damaging especially if that ranged version is actually a 1D8 Fatal D12 falcata strike.

If its FA then you can also grab the ranged option at L6 or L8 (depending on whether the +2 matters more to you vs. switch hitting).


Elfteiroh wrote:
Red Griffyn wrote:
Any news on the spirit warriors ability to share runes or make ranged attacks? It sounds like those are both L6 feats but some more description would be nice.

So the archetype shtick is to fight with both your "fist" unarmed attack and a one-handed melee weapon (or melee weapon with agile or finess), and you get Overwhelming Combination [1 action] (Flourish), that is like Flurry of Blow, but one "fist" strike, and one weapon strike, instead of two unarmed.

At lvl 6, Cutting Heaven, Crushing Earth let you apply the runes from your invested Handwraps to a single weapon you are wielding that you can use with Overwhelming Combination. Also, when you hit a target with one of your two attack, you make them off-guard to your next attack with the other (hit fist -> offguard to weapon, and vice versa) until the end of your next turn. So you pretty much "infinite combo" them as long as you alternate.

Lvl 6 Sword-light Wave [2 Action] let you use your weapon's or fist's proficiency and runes to make a ranged strike within 60ft (so hard cap on range like a spell), but ALL damages by the attack is converted to spirit. So can't use it against a soul-less construct. (And the weapon must be one that fit the Overwhelming Combination's requirement. That's true of ALL of their abilities that use a weapon.)

I personally really like the lvl 10 feat that let you break your weapon as a reaction once per 10 minutes to cancel an attack (to you or an ally in reach) that would hit and damage, and Swap to another weapon. Or the lvl 12 one that give you a reaction when you or an ally is targetted by a strike, to try to disarm their weapon, disrupting the attack on a success and legit stealing the weapon on a crit.

This archetype feels a bit messy, because it never specifies what weapon you MUST use.

It keeps alternating between "one-handed, agile or finesse".

Must the one-handed weapon BE agile or finesse, or not?

What about two-handed weapons? Could you use an elven curve blade, dueling spear or spiked chain (all 2H agile and finesse) and either let one hand go to punch or kick instead of punching?

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
JiCi wrote:

[snipped by Elfteiroh to limit tunelling]

This archetype feels a bit messy, because it never specifies what weapon you MUST use.

It keeps alternating between "one-handed, agile or finesse".

Must the one-handed weapon BE agile or finesse, or not?

What about two-handed weapons? Could you use an elven curve blade, dueling spear or spiked chain (all 2H agile and finesse) and either let one hand go to punch or kick instead of punching?

That's just normal enumeration. You only write the "or" or "and" at the end, after the last comma.

Specific example:
"a one-handed, agile, or finesse melee weapon" -> "a one-handed or agile or finesse melee weapon". First version just flows better. And that's also a very good example of the usefulness of the Oxford comma, as that last comma makes it clear that all the other commas should be considered "or"s. Of course, if the actual text was like the one you mistakenly quoted, "a one-handed, agile or finesse melee weapon", then yes, that would be a one-handed weapon that is agile or finesse. But the comma force a split and a pattern.

But most importantly, here the original requirement for the special action: "a one-handed melee weapon or a melee weapon with the agile or finesse trait;"
The others are basically only "reminders" of that.
So yeah, as long as they have the agile or finesse trait, a two-handed weapon is a valid weapon for this archetype.
Also reminder that "fist" refer to a specific "unarmed weapon stat block" that ACTUALLY represent any part of your body that you could logically use to strike, like your head, knee, feet, elbow, etc.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

A minor detail:

Page 131, the staff of Sun Wukong: "the Staff of Sun Wukong is made of solid iron with two brilliant gold bands at either end."

This says to me that there are four gold bands on the staff, two at each end. However, there's a picture of the staff, and it doesn't have that, it has one wide band at each end.

"the Staff of Sun Wukong is made of solid iron with a brilliant gold band at each end."

At least, that's how I would word it. In Navy terms a Commodore's single wide stripe rather than a Lieutenants two regular stripes. (There is also a "narrow stripe", one of which appears on a Lieutenant (Junior Grade)'s uniform (along with one regular stripe). A Lieutenant Commander has one narrow stripe between two regular stripes. These two ranks, Lieutenant (Junior Grade) and Lieutenant Commander, are the only ones that have the narrow stripe.

BTW, a staff is normally the same diameter throughout its length, while a bo staff is tapered slightly at the ends. In the picture, the Staff of Sun Wukong doesn't appear to be tapered. :-(


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I am a little disappointed that the Imperial Dragon bloodline, the Phoenix bloodline or the kitsune were not remastered in this book. It would have been the appropriate place to do so,


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Elfteiroh wrote:
JiCi wrote:

[snipped by Elfteiroh to limit tunelling]

This archetype feels a bit messy, because it never specifies what weapon you MUST use.

It keeps alternating between "one-handed, agile or finesse".

Must the one-handed weapon BE agile or finesse, or not?

What about two-handed weapons? Could you use an elven curve blade, dueling spear or spiked chain (all 2H agile and finesse) and either let one hand go to punch or kick instead of punching?

That's just normal enumeration. You only write the "or" or "and" at the end, after the last comma.

Specific example:
"a one-handed, agile, or finesse melee weapon" -> "a one-handed or agile or finesse melee weapon". First version just flows better. And that's also a very good example of the usefulness of the Oxford comma, as that last comma makes it clear that all the other commas should be considered "or"s. Of course, if the actual text was like the one you mistakenly quoted, "a one-handed, agile or finesse melee weapon", then yes, that would be a one-handed weapon that is agile or finesse. But the comma force a split and a pattern.

But most importantly, here the original requirement for the special action: "a one-handed melee weapon or a melee weapon with the agile or finesse trait;"
The others are basically only "reminders" of that.
So yeah, as long as they have the agile or finesse trait, a two-handed weapon is a valid weapon for this archetype.
Also reminder that "fist" refer to a specific "unarmed weapon stat block" that ACTUALLY represent any part of your body that you could logically use to strike, like your head, knee, feet, elbow, etc.

OMG, thank you :O

That DOES clarify the whole thing, because it should have been written: "The weapon must be one-handed OR have either the Agile or Finesse trait."

As for the "fist", well, that's because 99% of Brawling weapons are "wielded" with your hands. That's why I thought unarmed strikes were reworked for only your fists, unless noted otherwise. I have yet to see battle greaves, steel-toed boots or blade boots being added, let alone horned helmets ^^;


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Take a look at the unarmed attacks that ancestries like the lizardfolk, tengu, kholo, ratfolk, hungerseed, sarangay, and others get. They are all in the brawling group, and even “fist” is listed that way on the weapon table in the player core.


I'm sorry to the writers but the Starlight Sentinel is barely scratching my itch. They worked so hard to give us an inch and now I want a mile. I'm going to have to write my own third party book expanding on the existence of magical girls on Golarion.


So, would you be able to use a claw or jaw or tail attack instead of a fist with Spirit Warrior?

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ornathopter wrote:
So, would you be able to use a claw or jaw or tail attack instead of a fist with Spirit Warrior?

Not without your GM houseruling it, no, cause it SPECIFICALLY calls out to fist, and not "unarmed attack". So you have to use the fist stat block.

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Chocolate Milkshake wrote:
I'm sorry to the writers but the Starlight Sentinel is barely scratching my itch. They worked so hard to give us an inch and now I want a mile. I'm going to have to write my own third party book expanding on the existence of magical girls on Golarion.

Because of how space each feat takes, yes, that archetype would DEFINITELY gain from two extra pages. I was talking about it with friends over voice chat the other day. xD


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Elfteiroh wrote:
Chocolate Milkshake wrote:
I'm sorry to the writers but the Starlight Sentinel is barely scratching my itch. They worked so hard to give us an inch and now I want a mile. I'm going to have to write my own third party book expanding on the existence of magical girls on Golarion.
Because of how space each feat takes, yes, that archetype would DEFINITELY gain from two extra pages. I was talking about it with friends over voice chat the other day. xD

It's also an excellent chassis to base a tokusatsu-style archetype off of, as well. So, ya know, more pages are required.


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magnuskn wrote:
Since Rage of Elements already was made under the ORC license, I'd heavily doubt that the next hardcover out will still be under OGL, even if it is in the partner line of setting books.

According to the comments in Rage of Elements, it was released under the OGL, but the rules are compatible with the Remaster. The intention was to make it ORC, but the ORC License took too long to come out.


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Reading through my copy, and found the Tsukumogami Poppet heritage. I believe poppets are licensed under OGL, but this heritage is ORC. I wish there was a Player Core 3 that updated all the OGL material to ORC Licensed material.

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ShogiDude wrote:
Reading through my copy, and found the Tsukumogami Poppet heritage. I believe poppets are licensed under OGL, but this heritage is ORC. I wish there was a Player Core 3 that updated all the OGL material to ORC Licensed material.

There have been many explanation of why it won't happen.

Mostly, it's a question of sales. The bigger the number on a book, the lower it's sales will usually be. But also, for "omnibus" books like this proposed one, the farther it is from the core fantasy, the worst it sells. Things that are farther from the core fantasy of fighters and wizards, elves and dwarves, the more they need to be in "heavily themed books", to stay in context.

And anyway, as displayed with Guns & Gears and the Beginner Box, they will reprint as many books under the ORC as they can, when they run out of print. They also need to release more new content, as a lot of people are getting tired of seeing the same stuff getting rereleased first for PF2 from PF1, and now with the remaster... and the writers are the same. They don't like rewriting the same stuff over and over again. So yeah. :X

I know that this means that this is kinda prolonging teh growing pains of the remaster, but sometimes there's no perfect answer.

Horizon Hunters

Sad that Shoony aren’t in here, as the most appropriate book for pug-people, but otherwise enjoying so far.

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Moth Mariner wrote:
Sad that Shoony aren’t in here, as the most appropriate book for pug-people, but otherwise enjoying so far.

Interesting? From what I know, most of them live on Kortos island, near Absalom, as Aroden created them soon after raising the star stone?

Why would a book about Tian Xia be appropriate for them?
(Legit question, I never assume I know everything, and I might be ignorant of some lore about them in that region.)

Silver Crusade

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Assuming because in reality the pug originated in China


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Reality? What is this construct?


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I was really hoping to see Imperial dragon options for the Dragonblood versatile heritage in this book, but both books were probably being written around the same time. Hopefully there will more dragon options beside the new core dragons for Dragonblood sometime in the future.


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I think I might've found an error in the book now that I've gotten my hands on it. I'm not a lore master or anything but I noticed in both the Tian Xia World Guide and this book Round Moutain is placed in Poli on the map, but both times it is referenced in this book (in regards to halflings and oni's) it mentions being in the Darklands under Bachuan(Pg 26 and 31).


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Hi, super duper important question - does anyone know what the lil guy on page 16 is? The tiger rock spirit thingy under Magic in Tian Xia? I love him and it's imperative that I know what he is so I can properly introduce him into a game.


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AvarielGray wrote:
Hi, super duper important question - does anyone know what the lil guy on page 16 is? The tiger rock spirit thingy under Magic in Tian Xia? I love him and it's imperative that I know what he is so I can properly introduce him into a game.

Yes! I actually happen to know exactly what he is! That's what known as a https://yokai.com/torakoishi/ There isn't a Pathfinder stat block for this creature yet but I was pleasantly surprised to see one of my favorite Yokai in the book!

Liberty's Edge

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Watanuki wrote:
AvarielGray wrote:
Hi, super duper important question - does anyone know what the lil guy on page 16 is? The tiger rock spirit thingy under Magic in Tian Xia? I love him and it's imperative that I know what he is so I can properly introduce him into a game.
Yes! I actually happen to know exactly what he is! That's what known as a https://yokai.com/torakoishi/ There isn't a Pathfinder stat block for this creature yet but I was pleasantly surprised to see one of my favorite Yokai in the book!

Linkified

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Watanuki wrote:
AvarielGray wrote:
Hi, super duper important question - does anyone know what the lil guy on page 16 is? The tiger rock spirit thingy under Magic in Tian Xia? I love him and it's imperative that I know what he is so I can properly introduce him into a game.
Yes! I actually happen to know exactly what he is! That's what known as a https://yokai.com/torakoishi/ There isn't a Pathfinder stat block for this creature yet but I was pleasantly surprised to see one of my favorite Yokai in the book!

Thanks for sharing!

...
Aaaaaand I cried. Q_Q


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;-; Little Tiger Stone....

Thank you so much friends! Your wisdom is greatly appreciated! I'mma keep my eye out for statblocks for this lil guy in the future but until then I might just homebrew one if ever I need it.

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