Cantrips for non-casters? (Martials)


Advice


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I was just thinking it would be nice for my gnome fighter to have a cantrip to be a bit different. He won’t be MC so his proficiency won’t increase so attack ones are pretty much out. What cantrips would you recommend for a non caster?

I suppose I should also open this up if someone did take a MC just to get a cantrip but would not follow up with advancing the proficiency.


Rerednaw wrote:

I was just thinking it would be nice for my gnome fighter to have a cantrip to be a bit different. He won’t be MC so his proficiency won’t increase so attack ones are pretty much out. What cantrips would you recommend for a non caster?

I suppose I should also open this up if someone did take a MC just to get a cantrip but would not follow up with advancing the proficiency.

Shield is great for anyone. Prestidigitation, detect magic, Read Aura, Guidance, Stabilize and Forbidding Ward are all good picks depending on what you want and don't need proficiency or stats.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Taking a multiclassing archetype feat looks like an excellent way to get just a dash of spellcaster added to your martial character. For one feat in wizard multiclassing you get a skill and two cantrips per day (out of four in your spellbook). Pretty good for a feat. Sorcerer looks better - you get two skills and 2 cantrips per day.

In fact all the multiclassing archetypes look very good measured against the many other feat choices you can make. And you don't *have* to take additional feats in that line, as long as you don't want any other multiclassing antics.


Light is nice if nobody else took it, shield is okay if you have 2 hands full, either as a shield on a 2-handed weapon user or 2 weapon fighter, or as a backup for when your real shield breaks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paradozen wrote:
Light is nice if nobody else took it, shield is okay if you have 2 hands full, either as a shield on a 2-handed weapon user or 2 weapon fighter, or as a backup for when your real shield breaks.

I would actually use the cantrip first - a free damage block before you start using your own shield.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Wheldrake wrote:

Taking a multiclassing archetype feat looks like an excellent way to get just a dash of spellcaster added to your martial character. For one feat in wizard multiclassing you get a skill and two cantrips per day (out of four in your spellbook). Pretty good for a feat. Sorcerer looks better - you get two skills and 2 cantrips per day.

In fact all the multiclassing archetypes look very good measured against the many other feat choices you can make. And you don't *have* to take additional feats in that line, as long as you don't want any other multiclassing antics.

You can start off as a Seer Elf [gains detect magic]

take Otherworldly Magic [gain one arcane cantrip]
take rogue
take wizard dedication [2 cantrips] at 2nd
take Magical Trickster [sneak attack with spells] at 4th.
If you want more cantrips, you can take Minor Magic or Cantrip Expansion.


There are also at least three invested magic items that give cantrip use as a free activation, not counting staves, of course.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Xenocrat wrote:
There are also at least three invested magic items that give cantrip use as a free activation, not counting staves, of course.

*nods* I was looking at them too. I'm a sucker for a pile of cantrips. ;)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
graystone wrote:

Youu can start off as a Seer Elf [gains detect magic]

take Otherworldly Magic [gain one arcane cantrip]
take rogue
....

My first character built has done this as I envisage a B&E thief who can see and handle traps and liked the idea of an extra cantrip

I was tossing up between Shield and Telekinetic Projectile however herolab is showing the ranged to hit being just my dex bonus, i.e. assume this is because I am not trained in Spells?
Assuming that is correct, is there a way for a rogue to get Spell Proficiency?
Thanks!


Matsu Kurisu wrote:
is there a way for a rogue to get Spell Proficiency?

Yep, that multiclass dedication does that: "You’re trained in arcane spell attack rolls and spell DCs."

The issue with Telekinetic Projectile is the "ranged attack" as that doesn't state that it's a spell attack roll. For instance, produce flame says "Make a spell attack roll against your target's AC" when attacking a foe at range. So as far as I know, Telekinetic Projectile is always just +dex. This make the cantrip pretty useless as you level up as it doesn't have a scaling to hit.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Xenocrat wrote:
There are also at least three invested magic items that give cantrip use as a free activation, not counting staves, of course.

I think these are all of the non-staff items that provide Cantrips.

Flame Tongue Sword: produce flame

Lavender Ellipsoid Aeon Stone in Wayfinder: read aura

Pink Rhomboid Aeon Stone in Wayfinder: stabilize

Lavender and Green Ellipsoid Aeon Stone in Wayfinder: detect magic and read aura

Cloak of Elvenkind: ghost sound

Hat of the Magi: prestidigitation

Pendant of the Occult: guidance

Hand of the Mage: mage hand


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Thanks for that.
And I suppose RAW Telekinetic Projectile doesn’t fit into any of the Weapon categories (Simple, martial etc) :-(
I was thinking of carrying around sling bullets, and using those......
I am looking to play a society tables, so no go :-(


Matsu Kurisu wrote:

Thanks for that.

And I suppose RAW Telekinetic Projectile doesn’t fit into any of the Weapon categories (Simple, martial etc) :-(
I was thinking of carrying around sling bullets, and using those......
I am looking to play a society tables, so no go :-(

Yeah, it not any 'weapon' and it's not a spell attack so no proficiency and that means untrained rolls... So I agree with you, avoid it like the plague until we see some errata/FAQ's that fix it. I had a similar idea with killing people with copper pieces but once I sow how it was written, I gave up on that.

PS: I love all those free cantrip items but it's kind of a bummer they are all invested. It's be nice if items a certain level lower than you didn't require investing anymore. For instance, if you're 5+ levels higher than the item, no investment so at 7th, a Hand of the Mage didn't need investment anymore.

Also Ring of Minor Arcana: detect magic, mage hand, and prestidigitation.


graystone wrote:
Also Ring of Minor Arcana: detect magic, mage hand, and prestidigitation.

I don't see that item in the CRB.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Also Ring of Minor Arcana: detect magic, mage hand, and prestidigitation.
I don't see that item in the CRB.

The Fall of Plaguestone pg. 58. I found it looking an archives of nethys.


graystone wrote:
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Also Ring of Minor Arcana: detect magic, mage hand, and prestidigitation.
I don't see that item in the CRB.
The Fall of Plaguestone pg. 58. I found it looking an archives of nethys.

That's a cool item!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Gisher wrote:
graystone wrote:
Also Ring of Minor Arcana: detect magic, mage hand, and prestidigitation.
I don't see that item in the CRB.
The Fall of Plaguestone pg. 58. I found it looking an archives of nethys.
That's a cool item!

All the rings from that are nice. Honestly, every single thing from that adventure is sweet. If this is any indication of future adventure content, color me impressed. ;)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Rerednaw wrote:

I was just thinking it would be nice for my gnome fighter to have a cantrip to be a bit different. He won’t be MC so his proficiency won’t increase so attack ones are pretty much out. What cantrips would you recommend for a non caster?

I suppose I should also open this up if someone did take a MC just to get a cantrip but would not follow up with advancing the proficiency.

Pg 302 Core Rulebook - Innate Spells - You always get spell proficiency in spell attacks so you have everything open.


Rerednaw wrote:

I was just thinking it would be nice for my gnome fighter to have a cantrip to be a bit different. He won’t be MC so his proficiency won’t increase so attack ones are pretty much out. What cantrips would you recommend for a non caster?

I suppose I should also open this up if someone did take a MC just to get a cantrip but would not follow up with advancing the proficiency.

I like Arcane Sense early on, as early as possible, just so you never actually miss magic auras that might be around, especially if searching for all the tasty loot.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Stabilize is really good for a martial, especially a tough one like a fighter or champion. To use the first aid action from medicine to stabilize you have to have healer's tools, and have 2 free hands, in order to make a make a check that could possibly still critically fail and quite possibly kill your ally. Which is basically giving up a whole round at least for a chance at helping. Stabilize is automatic, can be done at a distance and is only 2 actions.


Gnomes can get a free cantrip or two as well, depending on your choices. Or you can take Adopted Ancestry and gain a cantrip on a non-gnome character. I did that for my Human Alchemist. Heightened cantrips are super-op and should be really fun.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advice / Cantrips for non-casters? (Martials) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.