Request for Reasonable Ring of Fangs Rebuilds


Starfinder Society

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Yeah, it can be broken, if you try and make it that way. For me it was a flavorful back-up / melee range weapon for my sharp shooter. Always a last resort, and less likely to hit than my main attacks. I could find another back-up weapon, sure, but none that make me feel like a shark!

Second Seekers (Jadnura) 5/5

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I 100% would be happy with the ring giving level ×1 specialization bonus but still be archaic lethal damage.

I'm not trying to compete with a vesk or nuar...I'm trying to be a dragon-shaped robot with a breath weapon and a lethal bite attack. I can do the breath weapon with an available augmentation. Just need a little help with the bite.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Society Developer

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Hey folks,

The team has been monitoring the feedback on the recent change to Ring of Fangs. We've been paying attention both here on the forums and in other areas. After discussing it internally, we're staying with the 100% cost refund for the item.

As for more rebuild options, this is something we would not look at in the middle of a season. Instead, we may look at additional options with the start of a new season (slated for June 17, 2020). The start of a new season also tends to be where we release some limited edition boons that include some rebuild options.

5/5 5/55/5

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**WHIRRR-GRIIIND-WHIRRR**


The fair solution to the Ring of Fangs changes.

1/5 5/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Oh, I thought it was going to be more like this.

:>

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo) 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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Zalibraxis, Dragonbot wrote:

I 100% would be happy with the ring giving level ×1 specialization bonus but still be archaic lethal damage.

I'm not trying to compete with a vesk or nuar...I'm trying to be a dragon-shaped robot with a breath weapon and a lethal bite attack. I can do the breath weapon with an available augmentation. Just need a little help with the bite.

The item itself filled a niche but the damage boost didn't fit in with the rest of the design done for unarmed/natural attacks.

As an aside I do think a future option that was a necrograft or bio-augment would be the way to go here if you want to bring this back in a more sane form.


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Could we maybe include some bioware/cyberware whateverware in a book or AP soonish that gives a bite attack back then? Not asking for double level on on unarmed attacks, just a bite...

5/5 5/55/55/5

Uchuujin wrote:
Could we maybe include some bioware/cyberware whateverware in a book or AP soonish that gives a bite attack back then? Not asking for double level on on unarmed attacks, just a bite...

Bionic dentures?

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Uchuujin wrote:
Could we maybe include some bioware/cyberware whateverware in a book or AP soonish that gives a bite attack back then? Not asking for double level on on unarmed attacks, just a bite...
Bionic dentures?

Or implant hard light projectors, so you can switch between different styles of fangs and colors ^^

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Uchuujin wrote:
Could we maybe include some bioware/cyberware whateverware in a book or AP soonish that gives a bite attack back then? Not asking for double level on on unarmed attacks, just a bite...
Bionic dentures?
Or implant hard light projectors, so you can switch between different styles of fangs and colors ^^

Color-coordinating fangs in the party was a need I didn't realize I had, until now.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Uchuujin wrote:
Could we maybe include some bioware/cyberware whateverware in a book or AP soonish that gives a bite attack back then? Not asking for double level on on unarmed attacks, just a bite...
Bionic dentures?
Or implant hard light projectors, so you can switch between different styles of fangs and colors ^^
Color-coordinating fangs in the party was a need I didn't realize I had, until now.

You are welcome ^^ I wonder if it costs extra to do some telepathic interface so you can change the color/light up the frequency to send a signal... or attune it to the beat at a rave.

Dark Archive

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Xenocrat wrote:
I think there's a case to be made that the Ring of Fangs was such an obvious sin against good game design that everyone who chose to use it deserves their misery now that it's banned, and that Paizo is probably doomed to some unfortunate karma for publishing it and ever allowing it as a SFS option.
Xenocrat wrote:
Right, that's the goal. The "punishment" is the foreseeable results of using a broken and silly option. If nuclear disarmament ever happens no one is going to take seriously any nations claims that they deserve some compensation in new biological weapons.
Xenocrat wrote:
I'm arguing from a moral point of view, not a rules point of view. I feel Ring of Fangs users should feel shame at their past build choices and face up to their sins, not pretend they are victims and ask for redress. What redress have they offered other SFS players who avoided the temptations of evil but had to tolerate the corruption at their tables?

Yeah, how dare those players have the "wrong" kind of fun! Darn kids, choose options that make your characters suck right now!!! Don't make characters that can contribute to your tables and continually be alive, you should be RPing & dying after spending all that time reading and making a character.

LMAO!!!!

3/5 5/55/5 Venture-Agent, Virginia—Portsmouth aka Pogiforce

Zalibraxis, Dragonbot wrote:

I realized that it was broken immediately.

I also waited to use it until Joe Pasini made a thoughtful ruling on it that limited potential shenanigans.

The ring was the only way I could find at the time to get a lethal bite attack on a SRO soldier, so I reluctantly took the available option, devoting a feat and a gear boost to make it work.

If there was a "bite your face off" augmentation I'd be happy with that instead.

Mechanical jaw. Throat augment. Cybernetic. I've been saying, for a while now, that cybernetics get the short end of the stick, which is really frustrating because then there's things like cyberborn.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Premier Event Coordinator

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Xenocrat wrote:
The "punishment" is the foreseeable results of using a broken and silly option

That's a subjective opionion not an objective one. You cannot reasonably say that a published and perfectly legal option that later becomes banned is in any way shape or form the fault of the player. One person's "broken/OP" is another person's just fine. When we do something like that, pulling the rug out from under an established character, we owe it to the player who followed the rules in good faith to return the favor and give them as liberal a rebuild option as possible. Anything less is akin to changing the speed limit after a car has passed and then fining the driver for violating it.


Bob Jonquet wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The "punishment" is the foreseeable results of using a broken and silly option
That's a subjective opionion not an objective one. You cannot reasonably say that a published and perfectly legal option that later becomes banned is in any way shape or form the fault of the player. One person's "broken/OP" is another person's just fine. When we do something like that, pulling the rug out from under an established character, we owe it to the player who followed the rules in good faith to return the favor and give them as liberal a rebuild option as possible. Anything less is akin to changing the speed limit after a car has passed and then fining the driver for violating it.

I’m declining to void your car payments on your Porsche because the speed limit changed and now you want a Honda Civic.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Xenocrat wrote:
I’m declining to void your car payments on your Porsche because the speed limit changed and now you want a Honda Civic.

We're a collection of Players who are playing together under an organization whose primary tenet is to have fun.

I believe you're approaching things from a restrictive vs permissive allowance Xenocrat but the manner in which you're communicating comes across as ranging from dismissive to antagonistic, and the conversation appears to be moving away from the original topic and instead focusing on tête-à-tête style conversation of design and org level actions.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Character options range on a spectrum of mechanical superiority, and players utilize those options on a spectrum of restraint.

In this case, some people optimized the RoF to the exclusion of all other options, and some people utilized the RoF as an afterthought. The majority of users fall somewhere in the middle. Only offering a refund does them a disservice that I don't see the benefit of.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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The ring was legal for almost two years, then Joe Pasini clarified a bunch of questions about it. By then, reasonable people might conclude the ring was there to stay. Now that's changed (for good reasons), it's only fair to give them a chance to rebuild.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

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Thurston Hillman wrote:

Hey folks,

The team has been monitoring the feedback on the recent change to Ring of Fangs. We've been paying attention both here on the forums and in other areas. After discussing it internally, we're staying with the 100% cost refund for the item.

As for more rebuild options, this is something we would not look at in the middle of a season. Instead, we may look at additional options with the start of a new season (slated for June 17, 2020). The start of a new season also tends to be where we release some limited edition boons that include some rebuild options.

Please provide a rebuild for this because of the impact on characters that would become unplayable.

I know if PFS1e mid-seasons rebuilds have been allowed in the past.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Society Developer

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Hey everyone,

Just a heads up that I'm seeing the feedback here and elsewhere. I want to let you know that at there's no plan to change the ruling we've made on the Ring of Fangs.

With the holidays coming up, I probably won't be as active on the boards for the next few weeks, so I'm avoiding any major engagement on this topic just for fear of getting "sucked in" when I'm trying to hunker down on some end of year work pile-ups. Anywho, just want to keep you all in the loop on where things are at.

Be good to one another out there :)


Hey Thursty, regardless of how I feel about the ruling thank you for being an active participant in the organized play forum.

Happy Holidays.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Thank you for your attention to this Thursty, even if I disagree with the outcome.

I cancelled my Starfinder Charter Subscription after your announcement. I believe the decision to not allow rebuilds is unreasonably inflexible, so speaking with my wallet was the only way I felt I could attach a repercussion to my voice. This was painful when it happened back in PFS1, and it's no less of a blow in SFS, and I don't want it to continue.

I hope in the future that both branches of Organized Play work out a more universally lenient approach to allowing rebuilds. I think I speak somewhat for those affected when I say that these instances are stressful. They fester in people's memory and resurface every time it happens again and again. I've spent the last two days dwelling on this, discussing it with fellow gamers, and even explaining it to people who know nothing about RPGs just so I can vent my frustrations.

That's not something I want to do again. I don't want my hobby to become another source of stress in my life.

Dataphiles 4/5 5/55/5

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While I'm not on the same page with your stress about this Nefreet, I want to express how awesomely you communicated your viewpoint. It was clear, concise and respectful.

Wayfinders 4/5

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I don’t think anyone in my area that has a dog in this particular game. However I do think the retraining option of the editors needs to be tweaked OR a different option be available. One of the most helpful, and expensive, options was the Ultimate Campaign offered was retaining.

Very useful.

I’m hoping at the new season next summer will cover that.

The main reason I didn’t comment Like I said was I had no play in the issue.

I appreciate Thursty coming in with his comments during the silly season rush to cover work before the holidays.

I sympathize with the folks who are impaired due to the decision, and I hope when the leadership considers changes at the change over of the season

Most folks commenting pro or con were polite and respectful, and if I could ask anyone this holiday season.

Don’t be rude, disparaging or simply mean because you think you’re right. Try and remember that your circumstances are not the same as others and making folks feel little for not rolling the same way as you do at the table.

I would really like to avoid some of the acrimony that came of the UE revisions and other events in PFS history.

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