Mulgar's page

Never understand the low magic campaign craze. It is after all a fantasy role playing game.

Mulgar wrote:

As for casters in general, the level difference makes Magic Missile into a godsend. On my Sorcs, I prefer to use one of their Spontaneous Heightening options on Magic Missile. Every time. Why? Because on a monster that is higher level than me, Magic Missile is going to be the best damage the party has to offer. It might well be the ONLY damage that the party has to offer. So while the Fighter is going in with his move-miss-raise combination every turn, I'm dishing 3/6/9/etc missiles.

@Mulgar - If you don't like the PF2 Magic Missile that is 20% better at PF2 level 5 than the PF1 version at level 9, and you don't enjoy spells like True Strike and Shocking Grasp that are comparatively improved from PF1, try out Summon Monster that is also comparatively improved from PF1 for duration and impact at lower levels.

Or explore other options to make work - it is a playtest, after all.

It's not that I don't like magic missile. I don't like the whole cantrips as your most cast spells thing.

I have looked at summon monster. They gave you a duration boost and a creature nerf. My summon options in the play test had a worse chance to hit than i did with my "mighty" cantrips.

The true strike and shocking grasp spell are fine, but all it does is turn me into a low ac, low hp, subpar damage dealing compare to others.

I get elfier and elfier as I level up makes NO sense. I was raised in a culture, ancestry, race or whatever you want to call it. It is counter-intuitive that as I leave that culture and go out into the world I become a more recognizable member of that culture.

Cantrips that dish damage are pretty sexy.

Acid Splash is probably the weakest and you can rightfully ignore it.

Chill Touch does a nice little bit of damage equal to swinging a 1d8 weapon (with a better-than-level-appropriate rune). For a caster who does not have high strength, this is very strong in melee, esp Vs undead.

Disrupt Undead is the ranged version of Chill Touch, but focuses only on undead. It's a massive 1d10 damage, with again a better-than-level-appropriate rune on it. The downside is that it allows a Fort save for half.

Electric Arc can ping TWO targets for damage, making it a twin-attack feat that many martials get.

Just a few, alphabetically top of the list, examples... and they're all pretty good.

Cantrips aren't supposed to light the world on fire, but be the bread-and-butter "reserve" spells. To that end, they're really good and the design space is yet unexplored. Think of a spell like Shield that can sorta turn your character into a mage-tank. If Shield was designed to not have the 10-minute cooldown, you could totally spam that and it is character defining, or nearly so. That's kinda amazing.

As for casters in general, the level difference makes Magic Missile into a godsend. On my Sorcs, I prefer to use one of their Spontaneous Heightening options on Magic Missile. Every time. Why? Because on a monster that is higher level than me, Magic Missile is going to be the best damage the party has to offer. It might well be the ONLY damage that the party has to offer. So while the Fighter is going in with his move-miss-raise combination every turn, I'm dishing 3/6/9/etc missiles.

I totally agree that something needs to be done to allow players to work in tandem to reduce the level difference. As it is, you get only 2 penalties to apply, along with making a character flat-footed. And there's not a single penalty debuff a player character can apply that gives the maximum of -4. This needs to change, such that players can debuff something down to their level if they work...

These comments make me wonder if you have played a wizard in playtest. The cantrips do not play as your bread and butter "reserve" they play as your main line damaging spells after a cast or three. If you as a caster want to do ANYTHING in combat you will end up using cantrips as the spells you cast most often.

Making magic missile the most effective options a joke. There was a PFS1e wizard in my area that would only ever cast magic missle. Heightened magic missile, quickened magic missile, maximized magic missile, tripping magic missile; you name it he memorized it. And all the players hated his wizard because of it. Now to make magic missile and the cantrips the "power of a wizard" vs. a fighter getting in position and making multiple attacks is very disappointing.

While playing a wizard in the playtest I am the weakest character on the board. I have the lowest hit points, lowest ac, and the weakest attack options. This game was always based on a high magic concept for decades.
Now I just don't have fun playing it anymore.....

Shain Edge wrote:

Fighters get to use their attack all day. Wizards at first level get only a couple of uses, then gain about a spell use per level. Wizards SHOULD be powerhouses based on limited use per day.

Cantrips, Cantrips, Cantrips, Cantrips.

Not only can the caster use a strike action or concentrate on a spell (say a summon), but they can cast a cantrip as well in one round. These cantrips auto heighten and often have a critical effect as well (even marital characters have a hard time blocking weapon critical effects... wizards get this at lvl 1).

I agree it's sad to see spells get nerfed, but if we are trying to level the playing field and lessen the gap between the old tiers of PF 1 then I feel the changes are pretty balanced considering the action economy. Also, seeing as even on a saved spell there is usually an immediate effect and that means your cast is rarely ever completely wasted.

Auto Heightening all spells is interesting, but I would say probably swings us way out of balance. Effectively eliminating all lower level spell slots and converting them to free higher level slots.

I am a mighty wizard. I have given up access to all armor and most weapons for arcane might the likes of which you can never image......

Casts my 15 cantrip of the day for less damage than the fighter using a +1 weapon.....

dragonhunterq wrote:

edduardco wrote:

I think is only fair to expect a certain degree of consistency, either: all held items don't require investment including staves, or all items required it including weapons.

I'm not sure I agree, exceptions are not inherently bad, as long as they are minimal, and staves being the sole exception (known) so far fits minimal.

.

Because most exceptions I've seen seems to be targeted against casters.

Because most nerfs I've seen seems to be targeted against casters.

There fixed that for you.

How about a Stamina system (but without Resolve)?

Every level, you gain Stamina Points equal to your Con, and Hit Points based off your class.

Stamina Points are lost first, once you run out of Stamina you start taking HP damage.

A 10-minute rest restores all your Stamina Points.

Please god, just no.

I HATE the stamina mechanic. I don't need two hit point pools to track. It is so needlessly complicated.

edduardco wrote:

This is more than just CLW wands, this is also replacing the body slots, and hopefully charged items.

I will also support the idea of exempting single use magic items of Resonance cost

I understand the idea of wanting to get away from the Big 6, but doesn't simply banning stat/save/to hit boosts from items and giving inherent character bonuses already do that? The system in unchained was workable, and if tweaks were needed then tweaks could be made. How in the world is it better, or "more Pathfindery" to make everything you do tally against some score determined by how likable you are?

In thinking about it, it's partially the fact that this system is based on Charisma that's bothering me. There is no logical, in-game explanation for why people who are more fun at parties should be able to use magical items more often. It's strictly a metagame construct to boost the usefulness of a stat that the designers have decided is underutilized.

How in god's name is Charisma underutilized!!!!!

Multiple classes that use it as their main stat (paladin, sorcerer, oracle and bard come to mind). Multiple skills that are essential to the game come to mind (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, perform and UMD). Several classes use it as a secondary stat (cleric, arcanist). Multiple builds plan to using charisma for practically everything.

I see this as an attempt to both limit magic items and increase the number of stats a character needs to be viable.

I generally like the new look, but it would be great if we could resize the font. Some of us are closer to 50 than 15....

Some of us are 50.

James Daniels wrote:

Joe Bouchard wrote:

As long as you have a history of playing games at other store(s), it shouldn't be an issue. If you suddenly rack up 20 tables of play in 30 days, and you're only playing under that one event, it may raise eyebrows. Home PFS games in moderation should be a-ok. I've done it before, and that's how my buddies and I report Adventure Paths for PFS credit.

Actually since PFS is perfectly legal to play at home games it isn't an issue at all. If you and your friends want to play 20 tables in 30 days go for it. If you only ever want to play at home with your friends, go for it. The eyebrows of others shouldn't be raised if you are following the rules.

Yeah, this is me assuming someone who audits the PFS event codes might find it suspicious. I have no actual basis on this.

I just find that it could be easily exploited by less than honest people.

However, we should treat new players as honest players. I started with 1 real pfs game and then played 10 or so home games with my family. All as legal as i knew how.

As long as you have a history of playing games at other store(s), it shouldn't be an issue. If you suddenly rack up 20 tables of play in 30 days, and you're only playing under that one event, it may raise eyebrows. Home PFS games in moderation should be a-ok. I've done it before, and that's how my buddies and I report Adventure Paths for PFS credit.

Actually since PFS is perfectly legal to play at home games it isn't an issue at all. If you and your friends want to play 20 tables in 30 days go for it. If you only ever want to play at home with your friends, go for it. The eyebrows of others shouldn't be raised if you are following the rules.

Metal armor => mine ore, cut trees to make charcoal and or dig coal out to the ground, smelt metal, burn more wood/charcoal/coal to forge the raw metal to armor.

Leather armor => Thank you animal for giving your life to feed me and my family. I will in your honor use all of your body for a useful purpose which can include tanning your hide to make leather and armor.

Seems to make sense to me......

love my warpriest

and wizard

and skald

and inquisitor archer

and magus ninja

and ...

well, now you see the problem

Hello Mulgar,

I can see an item in your cart, but I don't see a payment method attached to it. I don't see one on your account at all. If you add a payment method on the Payment tab do you still have the issue?

Just tried again and I am having the same issue. I add my card info on the payment method step and it tells me that my payment method was changed. So I click continue.

When I try to go on to order status and checkout I get a message that says "This order requires a valid payment method." I have tried multiple different cards and continue to get the same message.

When I go to the my account link and add an payment method to My Payment methods I get the same issue. All the steps seem to work but the payment method does not show up.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: I get the same message using microsoft edge or firefox

As listed in the title; You have 30 rounds to save the world from complete destruction. The entire nuclear arsenal of the world, fifteen thousand nukes, have been launched, and is directed to burn the world in fire. All your possessions, your demiplane, and everything you possess have been teleported with you.

If you do not save the earth, you cease to exist.

You only have to save 40% of the population.

Rules:
-No Wishes (Edit: Or miracles, or similar abilities).
-You can cast spells on earth; After you finish casting spells, so can anyone else.
-After this, gods, the planes, all of it applies to earth suddenly.
-No custom magic items.
-It actually doesn't have to be wizard, but wizard seems most applicable.
-DSP materials is available. As is Spheres of Power.
-Otherwise, follow RAW. Abuse the rules in any way you can to save the world.

If three minutes is not enough time, is 10? 30? What's the lowest amount of time you'd need.

You don't get to 20th level wizard by following the rules.........

If it's not for PFS, why not?? In a home game you can do anything you can get your gm to agree to.

But in SFS, sorry no.

OK, pancakes for breakfast, bigggggg steak for dinner.

mmmmm mmmmm gooooooood

I play warpriests, inquisitors, wizards, and a magus/ninja in PFS. I have found two things to be invaluable in playing these:

The buff deck it absolutely wonderful.

you can download a wonderful pdf file from Dyslexic Studios at http://charactersheets.minotaur.cc/ and it has specially designed sheets for individual classes. I have to connections to these guys but I LOVE their sheets. Makes it much easier to track things on complex classes.

When I first picked up the 5e begginer box, the main thing I noticed that I didn't like was... the difficulty, actually. Whena full health fighter gets one-shotted well into the negatives by a bugbear, (not with a critcal hit or a very high damage roll, just an average one), or when a party of second level characters has to run away from a few orcs in a random encounter, something is very wrong. These arbitrary rules are not only OP, but also don't make sense. Bugbears get an extra damage die because... they're really mean??? 5e is supposed to be new-player friendly, but it seems very brutal. Honestly, someone who is going to be playing a game like D&D is almost certainly going to be able to handle quite a complex rules system and not require as much simplification as 5e.

That said, I do like 5e a lot, and I do think it's the best edition of dungeons and dragons.

Gee, I think Pathfinder does a better D&D than any D&D edition.

Rysky wrote:

...wut?

Mystery wrote:

Anything that is kept secret or remains unexplained or unknown.

**** wall of text ****

So, again, why should you care?

The fun part is the answer can be anything you want it to be.

it's a conspiracy man... James Jacobs covered up Starfall man....Drunk Golarion ancient alien theorist

well anyway Mr. Jacobs did say as far as golarion is concerned he is dead.

thus something did happen. Mr. \Jacobs also said that Paizo deliberately left that out of it.

Ok, so now in my Golarian, the starstone is an alien spaceship. The failed aspirants are now the failed experiments. They weren't strong - healthy - sane enough to handle the conversion.

You see, the aliens were running from something bad(what it is, is currently unknown from most of golarion's beings). Aroden was also in on the conspiracy, and he was killed by the "bad thing" which broke prophecy.

Now the aliens are finding the best beings in Golarian, you see there's a battle coming, and they need an army........

James Daniels wrote:

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Mulgar wrote:

You can only buy a partially charged wand if it is on one of your chronicle sheets.

And those items will have a limit x on them, which means you can buy it a maximum of x times.

not all of them, there are a few that aren't limited, unless there is an errata to the chronicle sheets that I don't knoe about

There is a certain four charge wand on a certain early season chronicle sheet that does not say limit one. I used it to great effect in Bonekeep 3, and spent all four charges.

And I have a wizard who used 5 wands of false life (CL 3) from one chronicle.

DrDeth wrote:

BUT it does give one a unique set of experiences to draw on when talking about PLAYER behavior.

Don't get me wrong it's not that I want to argue against you being more experienced than, let's say, me. Though I'm not sure if those ten years you have over me, as far as the game of roleplaying is concerned, really make a difference when talking about player behavior.

Still I think that your contribution to the game (in form of the thief) is much more worthy of a badge of honor than "having survived". I mean I also have survived from a time before D&D was published and I'll probably survive the next 40 years as well, but that's only an achievement if you're living in a third-world-country where most people die before they reach my age.

It's like with the charter subscriber tag. I wore it proudly as long as I had it, but it definitely didn't make me think of myself as being somehow better than all those people joining later. And while I regret having lost it, it still doesn't change the fact that I was a regular at these boards before the whole Pathfinder business started, so in the end, it means nothing (apart from the personal satisfaction to wear it).

So if you're just saying: "I'm a grognard." as in: "I was there when it all began." I actally might envy you a bit for that. But if you mean it as in: "I was there before you, so I know more, am more and you better keep your mouth shut when I'm talking." I call this arrogant and condescendent. And unluckily, this set of mind is no rarity, neither in the roleplaying community, neither elsewhere.

And using the terms "grognard" and "whippersnapper" in the same sentence can never be interpreted as the first meaning. I don't think anyone in this thread (especially not thejeff) is really thinking this way, but it still rubs me the wrong way to see it.

Well I do expect you to shut your mouth whem i'm talking. It's quite rude and disrespectful to talk over someone.

Then again I'm a teacher......

We must really be Grognards if we have trouble remembering where a specific table came from. :)

All I remember is that Avalon Hill's Swords and Sorcery was so confusing as to be unplayable. I took it off the shelf recently to see if I was just to young to get it.

I wasn't, it was still unplayable.

Lets see, i own and have played

Red box series
ADD 1st
ADD 2nd
ADD 3rd
ADD 4th
Pathfinder
Runequest
Warhammer
Warhammer 2nd
Swords and Sorcery
Champions
Gurps
Fantasy Hero
Sapce hero
Merp
Rolemaster
Toon
Call of cthulu
Gamma world
Boot hill
Traveller
Paranoia
Star wars d6
Top secret

And thats just off the top of my head.

So I guess I qualify

There is a scenario where it came up but I think you can mostly do without it.

I hope Paizo learned that lesson.

Learned what lesson? I looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove the technology scenarios.

Technologist feat was never really a problem, just use the technomancy spell.

Played this Saturday 10/22.

LOVED IT. Made me use more of my spells that ANY OTHER SCENARIO I have played since ... well since forever. I was scrambling to kill the last guy in one encounter and well disintegrate, quickened lightning bolt can mess up a persons day......

I have only GM'd eyes, not played it so I can't compare it.

I have played Academy of Secrets, and this was so much better than academy.

Nesterin my conjurer wizard is now 15th level and looking forward to be the first wizard in my area to cast an 8th level spell as he plays the next two parts

I don't get all the conplaints. It seems straight forward to me.

1) Paizo is trying to reward the FLGS's.

2) Paizo is giving players a relatively minor in game boost to you if you support your FLGS.

3) It's not unreasonable for a for profit company to have policies in place to support their profits and continued existence.

Thank you very much Tonya for this incentive..

...our weapon speed modified our initiative.

I think the last thing we need is more paperwork

I think the last thing we need is more people making a mockery of the PFS rules by making any character they want without regard for owning the books.

I am not the richest person in the world, but I have paid my own hard earned money for ALL the books/pdfs I use. I have actually been told by gm's, oh, nevermind, I know you own your sources. Because I have show them before. I am now know in our local group as a person who follows the rules. But that's just who I am.

And it frustrates me to see people say I as a GM shouldn't audit my characters. I don't have to do a full audit every time. Sometimes I just say let me see your spells memorized/known list and check them. One thing at a time, quick and easy, not a full character audit everytime.

DmRrostarr wrote:

You fought a Huge dragon which means you get a choice of the following:
large mwk hide + a shield
medium mwk banded mail + a shield
small mwk half-plate + a shield
tiny mwk full plate + a shield

Yes, I understand that's the rule, but the rule is DUMB.

Then change the rule, it is your game, do what you want.

Then move on......

Quote:

eople seem to be forgetting that Hero Lab is a tool, and that it's possible to use other tools for the same task. There's no need for hero lab to do this. It just makes it easier. When writing down the latest feat, piece of equipment, or what not on your character sheet put a notation on what book it's in and what page number it's on. For example:

Spiffy Sandals (occult origins pg 40)
Yes, that's a fake item on a non-existent page in Occult Origins. That's deliberate.

Well here's why..

because If i bought spiffy sandles i need to mark down that they Take up the boot slot, were bought on chronicle 26 for 12,000 gold and leave room for which chronicle sheet i sell them on. That's starting to run over into the "Wands" section on my its as it is, where the wand needs the amount paid the charges left when it was bought and when it kicked the bucket.

A spell list is the same thing, but it's an ever changing erased and re written version of the above. I know i usually memorize 2 Aquarius orbs but don't necessarily remember what book they came out of.

So, BNW, what other rules of PFS do you think it's ok to let slide?

Can I fudge a attack roll, just add 10-15% to the roll, that's not so bad, is it?

What about prices paid for item, is it ok to take a 10% discount?

What if I add in a couple extra points of extra damage to my weapon damage rolls? what's the difference between 1d8 + 6 and 1d8 +10, I mean you're not going to audit me right?

And those are all examples of things that can be caught on an audit

Oo, yeah, those you are probably against, I mean integrity of the game and all.

The point is that Paizo as a company has done a wonderful job of making their product available online for free. It's not so outrageous to expect folks to buy their sources for PFS, how else can a GM function? I mean they can't be expected to own everything, or we wouldn't have many GM's.

Also, how fair is it for me to follow the own it to use it rules, but GM's let people just bring anything to the table?

I agree with you alot, but not on this one.....

Love me some technology in my fantasty.

*crosses fingers*

please be good, please be good

Limited Resources: Core Campaign PCs are limited tonusing the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, Pathfinder Society

Roleplaying Guild Guide, and Pathfinder RPG Character
Traits Web Enhancement when building their characters.

and

In Core mode, you use only the

Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook content and this guide in
character creation. It reduces the amount of resources
you must own, and provides a simplified version of the
campaign by limiting choices.

I don't get this discussion at all. The bestiary has been take away during character creation. Since the CRB says I can summon monsters and the ONLY place where those creatures stats are available is in the bestiary, then during play i would think that the point is mute.

I can't use bestiary during character creation. That's OK summon monster spell is in the CRB and specifically lists the monsters I can summon.

Those monster's stats are in bestiary, but I only need them while playing my character.

Soluzar wrote:

It might be a good idea to put this list in the next Guide.

While it would be a great idea to add this list to the guide, it will always be in a constant state of flux.

A list of 90% of the specials and or evergreens would be better than none.

Soluzar wrote:

It might be a good idea to put this list in the next Guide.

by the time you're nearing star 5 you should be able to dig it up on the forums

But you shouldn't have to dig it up. Just like the list of evergreens.

It seems to me to be quite easy to put a link up for both of these.

My cleric with 10 channels at level 2 sure feels viable. I sat down at a table with multiple brand new characters. I told them, "Don't worry, you're not allowed to die." The way you can play a tank changes when a healer is around.

One of my characters so enjoys a certain life oracle he knows that a proposal of marriage was made.

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

There's a no-evil hellknight order?

Oh... I suddenly have interest in hellknights now!

You should always have interest in the Hellknights. Or they will have interest in you.

"I know when you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake...."

Bottom line, is their crap worth playing the game for?

Doesn't matter if you can find another group to play with or not.

Fun > their crap = keep playing

Fun < their crap = quit.

Derek345 wrote:

Orcus Porcus wrote:

I have a medium fighter (titan fighter) wielding a large great axe. A large great axe does 3d6 Damage damage x3 on crits. Does that mean I roll 9d6 on a crit? Or 3d6 plus 3d6?

Your critical will deal 9d6 + 3*(any static bonuses you have which are not called out as precision damage).

no, it will deal (3d6)*3 (you roll 3d6 and mulitply the total by 3)

Critical: The entry in this column notes how the weapon is used with the rules for critical hits. When your character scores a critical hit, roll the damage two, three, or four times, as indicated by its critical multiplier (using all applicable modifiers on each roll), and add all the results together.

You don't multiply, you actually roll again.

Why all the hate for what they are doing? It's legal, well it is now with the changes made in this thread.

They are doing it because they want to.

And quite simply it isn't for us to judge. What they are doing is legal, let them go have fun.

Tempest_Knight wrote:

If we MUST allow, as Nefreet contends, Occult class feature retraining that has been signed off by a prior GM, then we must allow the Undead Lord and the lvl 1 with an effective +10 weapon if they have been signed off on.

Signing off on a character that is blatantly and clearly against the campaign rules =/= signing off on a character that is currently not explicitly against the rules but isn't explicitly by-the-rules either.

I think the comment was much more directed at the comments made that when a character sets at a table, the current GM according to some, has NO right to reverse the decisions of what previous gm's have signed off.

...

2.) According to page 34 of the Guide to the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, the second paragraph covers our ability to make rulings that have not been covered by Campaign Management or existing Pathfinder sources.

Guide to Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild page 34: Table Variation second paragraph wrote:

As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and responsibility to make whatever judgements, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience. This does not mean you can contradict rules or restrictions outlined in this document, a published Pathfinder Roleplaying Game source, errata document, or official FAQ on paizo.com. What it does mean is that only you can judge what is right for your table during cases not covered in these sources.

What this means, in my opinion, is that if someone comes to you requesting to retrain any aspect of an Occult Class (for example), the paragraph quoted allows a table GM to process that...

The sections above are the basis of the argument.

Is retraining occult in the rules? No, it's not in the rules.

Would you be contradicting the published rules of the game? Well you have now proven that the ACG classes could not retrain legally until the blog post clarified the synergies. This would actually support the need for PFS to call out synergies and class features allowable before a character could be legally retrain.

Sean Izaakse wrote:

Sort of another side question while I build one of my characters.

In the Weapon Masters Handbook under the Divine Fighting Style by Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard is says
"Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size."

So any feats that apply to a light mace will apply to a tankard I wield right?

Thanks again for the input everyone. You've gotten me super excited for my game this weekend.

Just be mindful that tankards are not weapons. Most special materials only have prices for weapons or armor, so a tankard couldn't be made from those materials. You could buy a mithral tankard since that material lists pricing for random items by weight. Tankards not being a proper weapon also prevents you from enchanting them as magic weapons. However there are a few specific named magical tankards that are enchanted as magic weapons.

If I treat it in all ways as a light mace, why can't I by a masterwork tankard?

I can buy a masterwork light mace, I should be able to make a masterwork tankard.

I can buy an Adamantine Light mace, I should be able to buy a adamantine tankard.

I can buy a +1 light mace, I can buy a +1 tankard.

Is there somewhere that the PFS powers that be have ruled on this and I have missed it? I got a really neat barmaid figure with a tankard that is just begging me to make a TWF tankard fighter of Cayden.

So... I think that the Guide really meant to say that I can award extra gold to players for good roleplaying. I mean, it doesn't explicitly say that, but the intention is clear when you read between the lines.

Other GMs might not agree, so expect table variation... but at least they can't take that gold away from my players.

But I feel that I'm in my rights to refuse the character to be played at my table in that instance.

Your interpretation of the rules is no more correct or valid than theirs.

You're claiming it is. That's what I have a problem with.

It is if they retrained a class feature that is not called out in ultimate campaign. We as PFS gm's are not allowed to add to that list.

Mulgar wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Mulgar wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Mulgar wrote:

Not me, however, that crap won't fly at my table, play something else, here I have a copy of all the pregens for you.

You'd need spelunking levels of character audit to even notice it, and even then would only spot them because they were being honest and trying to play by the rules, pay the price for retraining, and wrote it down rather than the undetectable new character sheet, new abilities here i come" method.

I understand that, but if I catch it, it doesn't fly.

I have a big problem with this stance.

Table variation is one thing. GMs using a player's Chronicle Sheets as a battle ground is another.

As a GM, you don't have the authority to rewrite or undo another GM's decision. If you did, that GM would have equal authority to rewrite everything you just did. The result becomes a frustrated player caught in the middle.

Auditing is meant for players and their characters, not their previous GMs.

I do have the right to audit their characters, and ask them to fix it if its against the rules. If another GM allowed a retrain that is in a grey area I feel I'm within my right to not allow that character to play (the player can play, but must play a legal character).

This just sounds like a "Not at my table!" argument.

What makes you think you have the right to tell the player of a legal character that they can't sit at your table?

That falls under my definition of "Don't be a jerk".

What makes you think a player of a illegal character has the right to tell the GM that they can sit at your table?

That falls under my definition of "Don't be a jerk".

See it goes both ways.

When I sit down to GM, I am agreeing to enforce the rules of PFS. Currently, I read those rules to not allow retraining that is not specifically called out in Ultimate Campaign. Without a clarification from PFS, under my interpretation of the rules I can't allow an illegally retrained character to play.

I understand you disagree with me. Nothing your have said so far has persuaded me. I think the best thing would be for us to disagree

For what its worth I don't believe the intention in allowing retraining was to end up with a system where some classes can retrain and others can't. I can see some have an issue with this so lets come up with something simple to add to the PFS FAQ /clarifications or even The Guide

The retraining rules are available to all characters and classes in the campaign. Class features that give a choice between options (such as rogue talents) or a choice between class features (such as the wizards Arcane Bond and Arcane Familiar) may be retrained using the class feature retraining option.

The hybrid classes presented in the Advanced Class Guide have synergy with their parent classes and any class both their hybrids share a synergy with

Unless clarified in a further rules source or update new classes do not have synergy with any other class.

Woah now, what's the voice of reason doing here?