I am not sure this is a valid character, but if i understood the interaction correctly this would be very fun. THis character uses the free archetype rules.
A human dhampir summoner with a plant eidolon and the sorcerer and reanimator archetype. The plant is a cruel and bloodthirsty nature spirit, a rose that wants to spread over the world and drink the blood of civilized being with their roots. The human freed them in a time of need and now is trying to reign in their worst impulses with little success.
Humans can unlock animate dead at level 5 with Adaptive adept, and the reanimator makes it an automatic signature spell, bypassing adaptive adept's restrictions. The undead in question would be more "unholy masses of vines moving a mockery of an humanoid body" than your classic undead, but that's just a reskin.
An aasimar summoner with an angel eidolon. he grew up as pampered as someone in the mana wastes can be, a living good omen of divinity in his village, which gave him an overinflated ego and no empathy whatsover.
Of course, when it came the time to actually plead with the celestial planes like everyone expected him to to there were some problems, but nothing that a little help from the lower planes could not solve.
So he gained a bound angel to serve his every whim. Some misadventures convinced him to move to the big city in Geb, where he started working for a powerful vampire as a torturer and enforcer.
Angels are, after all, amazing at beating people within an inch of their lives without killing them and every undead is at least unsettled by positive energy, and his abilities come without those pesky needs to follow divine edicts.
Drakes are not flying companions, they are just a fast land mount.
I'm with Alchemic_Genius on the need for a true CG science deity. The closest i could find was the Azlanti god of exploration and discovery,wich could fit a scientist in a way, but does not even have the knowledge domain. There is passion in science, wonder at unexpected phenomena, hope for the knloedge acquired to be used to build a better future and just a desire to "f%%~ things up and see what happens". We need a god for that.
That said i also think that the "laws of nature" are inherently lawful, because they are attempts to impose order on the world, to find predictability where there was none before. The primordial inevitables ensure that the planets follow their orbit, the proteans send the odd meteor or two to shake things up and nature includes both.
I wanted to add something about the whole "chaos-entropy" connection. There is a canonical primal Inevitable, Kerkamoth, that has entropy and stillness as his areas of influence. He represents the status of maximum entropy in the physical sense, and inevitables in general seem to be very connected to physics as a science, as expressions of the natural laws of reality.
Proteans, on the other hand, seem to draw more on the "chaos as primordial soup" interpretation, which fits with their more artistic and metaphorical view of reality.
Hard science is precise,exact, not open to interpretations, so scientific entropy falls under the Inevitables. More mythological intepretations of chaos as a place of endless potential fall under the proteans.
As to why they are more antagonistic than their LN counterparts, i believe it is because while both of them are utterly alien, and world ruled by them would probably impossible to live in, LN outsiders at least respect the existence of life forms as part of the natural order. They may not like it, but if the rules say "leave humans alone unless they do x, y and z" they will leave the majority of us alone. Proteans on the other hand, do not follow any rule at all by definition, so they are free to spread their version of reality. And their version is not something humans can survive in.
Kobold Catgirl wrote:
I would like to point out that there is an argument for neutrality in the second case. "Indifference" is pretty much the defining characteristic of neutral alignments in Pathfinder and i can absolutely see a N or CN pc refusing to feed the man and keeping their neutral status. And if there is a law against feeding the homeless, the LN can join the "fun" too. Which is another example of why the morality system in Pathfinder is unfit for reality, as everybody here would call that action "evil"
Outsiders can and do petition the Boneyard for particular souls, and i see no reason why this character could not be escorted to Elysium by the azata themselves after they die, retaining their personality and memory.Also, an Azata would never put duty above their passion and for an immortal being, a mortal's life, even if they are long-lived like an elf, will pass by in the blink of an eye. You can easily give them an happily ever after, from the character's perspective at least.
One of my first character concepts was actually from Nex, a goblin Mage/Alchemist that started working in Oenopion ooze pits, stealing bits of knowledge here and there from the snotty mages that tought him their inferior and making alchemical and arcane experiments with the dangerous slimes he worked with. When he finally meaged to create a familiar he realized that enough is enough and ran away, with dreams of becoming powerful enough to be feared by the same mages that once treated him like dirt.
I will never tire of Her Infernal Majestrix, Queen Abrogail II of the Thrice-Damned House of Thrune. She is such a fun villain, it's always interesting to see where her schemes will take her.
Belimarius is also a very interesting charachter. She is a fish out of temporal waters, but unlike Sorshen she wants to bring back the glory days of the Empire. I simply love villains who can suffer a major setback, stare a better way in the face and just say "NO" to redemption. She has the potential of becoming one of the most threatening villains of the Inner sea, and her relationship with Sorshen is something i want to see explored more. They are so different, and yet they can uderstand each other better than anyone alive.
Realm of the Mammouth Lords is my favourite place in all of Golarion, i simply love prehistoric fantasy and i can't wait to see what thy will do with it in the next AP.
Numeria and Sarkoris are close seconds. Mixing high tech and barbarian fantasy is a strong aesthetic and you can do amanzingly pulpy things with it. Sarkoris has a very strong "reconstruction after the disaster" thing going on that i like, and there is a lot of interesting space to explore with the god-caller culture.
Lastly, even if it not really a region, i love the Vaults of Orv. I am a fan of the "worlds within the worlds" theme, and it has so much potential to create unique charchters and setting, making something truly alien.
Honorable mention: Rahadoum. It has the potential to be extremely interesting, but at the moment it suffers from its age and a general lack of direction. If it gets a 2e write up it might become my favourite region, but as it stands it does need some work before it can truly shine.
I wanto to point out that this thread is not meant to criticize the skill of the writers. They created an excellent sandbox to play in, with enough tools to satisfy everyone. I only created this thread to see which themes were considered "not interesting" by the majority of players in the forum. And this has been interesting, i never expected for Numeria to be mentioned so often for example, since i find it one of the best parts of Golarion. I am sorry i did not make it clearer in the OP.
The Raven Black wrote:
Other races can become positive energy undead (Deathless), Aerenal Elves just have a whole culture around it. Also, while is not 100% canon, in a book made by the setting creator we are told that the promise of a non-elven undying councilor is a tool used by the sea elves to keep other acquatic races, like the locathath in line.
The ultimate "i have just the thing" character. My group always plays with free archetypes, so i am going to do a Thaumaturge/Talisman master/Scroll trickster merchant character. He has accumulated a veritable trove of useful and less useful stuff over the years, but he knows that adventure is the only way to get the truly powerful objects. He wants to make the family business truly soar, even if he has to risk his life for it.
Dammerich says "yes", he is the Empyreal lord of executions. As for the "alignment of revenge" debate i would also agree that, as an action, it can never be good and probably never lawful. That does not mean that LG charachters can't pursue it. Revenge is always a deeply personal and self-concerned action. It can't be good becuse it is ultimately selfish, even when it has an overall good effect on the world. This is what separates it from extra-judicial justice. And the fact that it is so personal makes it not-lawful. Law is standardized, impersonal, emotionless. It can give you the right of revenge, but it unconcerned with your emotions. And revenge is all about emotion, about personal satisfaction. Law sets limits to preserve the commmunity, revenge does not care at all about the community.
Happy holidays to everyone! Today i wanted to know the hivemind opinion about something i tought about recently.
Golarion has been described as a kitchen-sink kind of setting. This has some pretty big advantages for a TTRPG world. No matter what you like, from the gothic horror of Ustalav to the swashbuckling adventures of the Shackles, there is probably one place on Golarion that is just made to tell those kind of stories.
Unfortunately, this also means that there is at least one place on Golarion that was made for stories that do not interest you at all. The one place that is so boring, you could not imagine having an fun adventure in. The one place that you skip over in the lore books, the one that could be erased by Golarion entirely and you would not even notice.
For me, for example, that place is Brevoy. "Noble houses who are good with swords" does not hold my interest at all, especially when compared with its much more epic neighbours. I just can't imagine an adventure there that could not be made more interesting by moving it elsewhere, or even just creating a Brevic character that would be fun to play.
So, what's YOUR least favourite place in Golarion? As always, keep it civil and remember that your thrash may be someone else's treasure.
Yes, yes, and yes. The mix of hostile nature, strong tightly knit communities and mysterious eldritch horror has a very strong appeal to me. I don't think it could carry an entire book, byt maybe it could be part of a Frostburn equivalent, together with Irrisen, the Land of the mammouth lords and the Land of the Linnorm Kings.
I generally find that the more Pathfinder lets go of its old D&D roots, the better it becomes.
Or people in your own culture that do not share those ideas. "Gay people should not have children" is a pretty popular cultural stance in my country, but i would still classify it as "bad".
Returning to the actual topic at hand, Cintra's sidebar suggestion is great! Transparency is always appreciated and giving a clear out-of game explanation of a retcon is probably the best way out when the writers find themselves in thorny situations. Which have happened in the past and will happen again, given Pathfinder's long history.
If they see them pray to a patron, sure, but if they just...chat with it? It might not even be remarkable. Withes occupy this interesting space where the entities that give them power might be gods or demigods, but their powers are very much non-divine in nature (most of the time) and indipendent from their personal faith. They might not even be aware of who their patron is. There are a number of ways they could make them interact with the Pure Legion, and i definitely expect some diffences of opinion within the order.Which i believe would be a very interesting space to explore.
Strong agree here. It just feels like a huge missed opportunity. Osirion is one of the oldest cultures in Golarion. They must have developed some pretty unique views on the gods, their nature and their relationships. One of my favourite parts of the Mwangi expanse book was that it finally gave us more details on regional and cultural variations of familiar gods. It's something i really hope is kept and expanded in future books.
Also i want to see more about Rahadoum. Now that Paizo has finally clarified and explained the nature of magic in Golarion Rahadoum is ready for an update.
I am especially interested to see the new roles and power primal and occult casters are gaining in the Nation. Rahadoum has to rely on them to fill the gap and this opens up all sorts of possible plotlines. How does this sudden change influences old druidic faiths in the area? How do they deal with the fact that some of their members may still worship nature deities, despite their magic being primal? Do they use this opportunity to seize more political power or do they try to retreat from the sudden interest of the state apparatus in them?
The role of occult casters has also not been explored up until now, but it could be even more interesting. Now that only occult casters can deal with spirits how does this change the role of bards in the region? And what about witches? Is there an increase in the number of pacts with mysterious patrons? And how does the Pure Legion see non-divine witches in general?
Dancing Wind wrote:
Usually, when a company declares some long term project and they have some channels dedicated to receive customer's feedback, It helps to give that feedback. That's half the reason these forum exists. The other half Is the fun of talking about the game with other fans, like we are doing now.
You're right, why even bother with setting books at all? What Is the purpose of these things called "AP"? GMs have to do worldbuilding and creative writing anyway. It's a wonder why Paizo even tries to put such useless products on the market. Also no one on these forums has ever complained about having to fill in any gaps, which Is why the most popular products have plenty.
Because they decided to leave some pretty important threads hanging to avoid grappling with the issues they cause. This Is the core of the issue, they took an easy way out for them that leaves anyone want a better exploration of those themes unsatisfied. It shifts the effort from them to the customers and that Is not acceptable.
because they have also shown a lot of improvement over the years, their most recents products are a blast and some, like the Mwangi one, fixed some poor narrative choices of the past in an excellent manner. If this trend continues i can't see why they should not be able to handle slavery appropriately. They have the skill to handle anything else so why not that?
Ian G wrote:
This. Setting and Adventure books exist because Paizo writers are better at writing and worldbuilding than most of their clients. It's why they are payed. So when they say "We won't cover this aspect of the world we created anymore, tie up the loose threads yourself" it feel like a cheat. I can write my own headcanons about the Golden Road region, inclusive of slavery, but i would much prefer having this done by a professional writer team who is actually good at it.
the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:
That is a really good hook, i never tought about it this way. i usually just eliminate allignement from my games when possible, but this is giving me ideas.
I may be in the minority here, but i do not see a problem with neutral societies condoning slavery. Mostly because it is shown, times and times again in many lore and monster manual books that "Neutral" can mean "does a lot of terrible s**t but is not mean about it". One of the aforementioned terrible s**ts is looking at evil and doing nothing. With all due respect to Desmond Tutu, in the world of Golarion he is wrong. Cosmologically wrong. Neutrality in the face of oppression does not make you evil, it makes you neutral. There are many beings made of pure Law,Neutrality or Chaos that spend their entire immortal existence watching oppression and doing nothing, and not a molecule of Evil enters their bodies. And that's without looking at the genocides they carry out on the regular, while still mantaining their perfect neutrality (looking at you Imot and Fulgatis). So a society that is not dependant on slavery, that does not specifically target people to be slaves, but is just apathetic towards it? Where slaves are just another item on the market? Perfectly neutral according to the working definitions of allignments. The very existence of neutrality is probably the most egregious example of disconnect between real world morality and Pathfinder's alignment system.
Which is why here i can read a discussion about slavery without wanting to rip my eyeballs off after the first page. Things are good here. Especially when put in perspective with the rest of the TTRPG world.
I believe this is simply due to the audience. Paizo forums skew heavily left compared to most places on the internet, so there is more scrutiny on Golarion than on the Forgotten Realms or Eberron. Or, if we move a little further, the still very popular world of Warhammer.
There are some evil demigods that are opposed to slavery as well.
Anogetz, The Fated Fangs is a Daemon Harbringer of revolutions, coups and animal attacks. Definitely someone that could be interested in shattering an oppressive order (as long as the process of liberation is bloody enough)
Tarksun is especially interesting. He is a LE Asura Rana, with the liberation domain in 1E and both the freedom and revolution subdomains. His areas of concern are Anger, Dreams and the shattering of bonds. He is the perfect demigod to worship for a REALLY angry slave. I find the idea of a LE abolitionist incredibly interesting, and could give rise to some excellent characters and stories.
There are many ways to create awful, terrible governments without making them fascist. Make them pacifistic for example. Fascism is a ideology that worships military strenght and the role of the army, so a nation that rejects that won't feel fascist. Or maybe create a very individualistic culture, where cooperation for the common good is seen as foolish and loyalty to a hierarchy is an alien concept.
Another way you can make the evil state not fascist is by making it ruled by a council of many small petty tyrants rather then one big tyrant. Fascism requires a dictator, a Strong Man to get behind, and many small leaders required to engage negotiations with each other will not be fascist or, more importantly, feel fascist.
Paizo made me happy when they announced an AP in the Realm of Mammouth lords, as i find prehistoric fantasy to be both beautiful and way underused. I simply love the idea of vast, untamed expanses of land where humans are still subjected to the harsh law of nature and need to rely on each other against an hostile world.
Other than that, i would love a planar-hopping adventure, something that makes the PC planar travel from the very start. This is a fantasy game, i want to be dazzled by the most fantastical and impossible locations from the start, without having to wait until later levels.
Lastly, and i know this is not going to happen, a story about a group of Darklands natives climbing from the Vault of Orv to the surface could be an interesting inversion of a clichè.
Kobold Catgirl wrote:
Yeah, that is kind of the problem here. Changing the word Geb, or any other country, uses for "Slave" but not the actual institutions strikes me as nonsensical, a non-solution that borders on insulting. Now i do not envy the position Paizo is in. Changing course when you have such a beloved and well established world is hard. But trying to just avoid the issue , especially when in less than a year there is an AP coming out in a nation where slavery of the worst possible kind is an important feature is not a good way out. Paizo will have to come back to Cheliax or Katapesh or Quadira eventually, since they are very popular regions. And trying to just...not mention slavery is not a good way to handle this particular can of worms.
I must say, while Golarion is a world big enough that there are many areas to explore where slavery can be safely ignored, it is interesting to see this announcement when we know there will be an AP set in Geb in the future, and slavery in Geb cannot be ignored.
The fact that there are living people in Geb bred as food for the ruling undeads is something very unique about the nation, and a logical consequence to its fundamental premises. So, do you think they will fix it with some sort of "artificial substitute for meat/blood", they will have "vegetarian vampires" Twilight-style, or they will just ask us not to think too hard about it?
The Eidolon can get knockdown, push and grab on his natural attacks. Automatic combat maneuvers without the need for a check. Just hit the attack and the target is prone/shoved/grabbed. The fighter has improved knockdown, which has a similar effect, but it requires the investment of 2 feats and it is a flourish and a 2 action commitment, while combat grab requires you to have a free hand, it has almost always no reach and it is a press attack, so always done with a penalty. The eidolon can become excellent with combat maneuvers.
Honestly i don't think giving the Eidolon 2 attacks is worth it in most cases. If you are fighting some weak minion sure, but otherwise i believe that that 4th action flexibility can be better used on something else. Sure, every martial can use electric arc+attack (not with 18/18 tough), but we can also use the extra action for intimidate/battle medicine/knockdown/Grab/whatever is needed. The fact that eidolon get the automatic combat maneuvers feats is extremely powerful and should not be underestimated. In general i believe that the eidolon should be a worse martial when it comes to sheer damage, since no other martial can have the utility they have in and out of combat (tremorsense at level 4 anyone?) nor can they change their entire build on a day-by-day basis.
It's worth noting that Abadar accepts LE worshippers. A banker that buys an entire poor neighborhood and gentrifies the hells out of it is probably viewed favourably by the other clerics, as the overall economic output of the city will grow considerably. And if they can reabsorb the displaced people into the workforce by, for example, making them work as employees in those same luxury shops, even better. The toughts and feelings of the poor people in question do not matter at all. The city is richer and everybody has a job, and that's enough for Abadar.
I would like to add that a +4 alchemical bonus to Cha is extremely useful to CHA casters, especially at lo levels. There are not many sources of alchemical bonuses, and the pheromones will be much appreciated by any bard or sorcerer. In this case i could even see a power+1 justified. It is a pity there is no way to improve it.
Anandi. Give me the spider people. Their culture seems so interesting, you don't often see institutionalized poliamory done right in a fantasy setting.
During its many years of publishing, Paizo flled golarion with many interesting entities, both good and bad, but sadly only a few of them menaged to get under the spotlight in an adventure, a campaign or a companion book. So i ask you, what entities do you wish to see utilized and expanded in the future , both as antagonists and as allies of the PCs? What favourites of yours would you like to get more love in this edition? Those below are mine, i want to know yours.
Daemonic Harbringers in general:
Diceid He introduces he threath of ecological collapse, one that is seldom seen in most fantasy works. Most fantasy worlds are always about to end for a myriad reasons, we know it, but villains that target the ecosystem itself are usually relagated to morality tales for children to show the benefits of enviromentalism. Diceid and his cultists have the potential to be the perfect villains for a much more mature take on this theme, perhaps for some nature-themed module or adventure path. Also, he has one of the most baddass titles in the game, so it just has to be utilized.
Cyxiron everyone favourite way to give firearm proficiency to their cleric would also allow the writers to explore the darker sides of progress. Golarion has always been more technologically advanced then most others high fantasy settings, and Cyxiron itself is proof of that. He would also be an excellent antagonist for anything set in the Mana Wastes, to reflect the darker sides of the hardened survivalists that inhabit those lands, people who are willing to do anyting to give just a bit more power to their trusted guns.
Laivatiniel This harbringer introduces some pretty mature themes to the game, but it is also on of the most suited for a psycoogical horror module,something that would leave the players chilled to the core. Laivatiniel is a creature of paradoxes, an embodiment of hate that has love and coddling, however twisted, as part of her domain. For that alone i believe she deserves a better exploration.
Lythertida I mean, her cults sounds like one that produces loads of martyrs. She would be perfect to insert in a campaign that relies heavily on the themes of idealism and practicality. She is a lord that sparks revolutions, but can her cult sustain them?
Black Butterfly Everyone favourite Empyreal Lord, she has been explored way more that the other entities on my list, but she and her cultists still have to make an official appearence. They would be perfect allies in an adventure focused on the threats that lurks between the stars.
All the Asura Ranas