Is there a spell that just cleans yourself like taking a bath?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


If not, what level would it be? I would say 0 since it doesn't give you any mechanical benefits.

Silver Crusade

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Prestidigitation is commonly believed to be usable for that.


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I wish there was in real life. I love being clean. I hate getting wet.


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Yes there is such a spell made by the kalistrade:

The 1st level spell Fastidiousness. It automatically cleans you all day and gives a bonus against disease.

Presitidigtation is very versatile but has some very harsh restriction. Ex: can only clean 1-ft cube of items per round.


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Temperans wrote:


Presitidigtation is very versatile but has some very harsh restriction. Ex: can only clean 1-ft cube of items per round.

correct, but is a 0 level spell, so can be used 10 times in one minute. most people are less than 10 cubic feet in volume....


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Fastidiousness's recurring cleanliness is the best, shame it's self only. I could see a character making large statues as command word magic items of fastidiousness to improve local health.


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spells aren't really written to do mundane things as those uses aren't fantastical and typically they do not result in mechanical benefits. For this reason GMs should let general cantrips/orisons cover these mundane tasks that involve less than 1gp and have no mechanical benefit.
PCs DO need to eat & drink and sleep as those have penalties associated with not doing them so GMs should exercise some game balance sense.


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In my personal homebrew ruleset, I have dozens of cantrips that function the way cantrips were intended to be in 1st ed AD&D. Practice spells and practical everyday magic for roleplaying purposes (consequently, there's no catch-all prestidigitation spell and they're not at will the same way they are in PF/5e, but casters get a LOT more cantrip slots per day). Here's one I designed (adapted for PF use in terms of class spell lists)

Bathe
Abjuration
Level: Brd 0, Clr 0, Drd 0, Inq 0, Sha 0, Sor/Wiz 0, Sum 0, Wch 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Touch
Target: One willing creature of Large size or smaller, touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Bathe causes you or a willing target creature to enjoy similar benefits to a nice bath with warm, soapy water. The recipient of the spell must be nude to receive its full benefits; otherwise dirt and odors from clothing may simply reapply themselves to the body. Thus, by casting this spell, external body odors are eliminated from the recipient.
Bathe will not clean clothing (though the wash spell will), nor will it freshen breath or clean teeth. This spell does not actually use soap or water but simply removes the offending soils, excess oils, and odor causing substances as effectively as soap and water. The spell usually doesn't bother the targeted creature (as a cat might be bothered by a real bath).
Substances that will not readily wash off with warm, soapy water will also not be well-affected by bathe. Skunk spray, for example, will not be completely removed, but this spell may help, and several applications will begin to take its toll.


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Unrelated to the bathing question, but tangentially relevant, there's a 3pp book for more mundane magic.

101 Spells for the Common Man


Wishlisted. Thanks.

Liberty's Edge

Foeclan wrote:

Unrelated to the bathing question, but tangentially relevant, there's a 3pp book for more mundane magic.

101 Spells for the Common Man

Brought some time ago. :-)

In my homebrew I have introduced a feat to be able to prepare 2 cantrips every day from a "folk magic" list (you use your best mental stat for it, so you need a 10 in at least one mental characteristic) and added free feats at level 3 and 7 that can't be spent in combat, item creation, or metamagic feats and that should be approved by the GM.
That way I am trying to have people select some of those roleplaying feats that have little combat use but give flavor to the character


dot


Just adding to what TxSam88, Redella and Temperans said upthread, Prestidigitation is the way to go. The duration of the spell is 1 hour. The description of the spell is unclear if a single casting performs the SAME trick for the full hour or if you can switch between tricks the spell allows you to perform, but many GMs, myself included, allow you to switch things up during the duration.


Actually it does not really matter if you can only perform 1 action per casting. Prestidigitation is a cantrip and can be cast as often as you like. There is nothing in the spell description that says you can only have one prestidigitation active at one time.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The Knight Inheritor's Ring is a slightly up-priced Ring of Protection that specifically states: "At will, the wearer can make himself presentable as if using prestidigitation to clean up his clothing, skin, hair and armor."

Thus, prestidigitation would certainly work for those that can use it.

*edit* I bring up the ring specifically because the spell Prestidigitation itself is pretty darn unclear on what it can do, and it specifically calls out cleaning 'items' and not people.

Liberty's Edge

ErichAD wrote:
Fastidiousness's recurring cleanliness is the best, shame it's self only. I could see a character making large statues as command word magic items of fastidiousness to improve local health.

That's an interesting. Perhaps an entrepreneurial PC or NPC could create various magic items to create a business like a bath house or laundromat that that has the implements of cleanliness cast that spell.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TxSam88 wrote:
Temperans wrote:


Presitidigtation is very versatile but has some very harsh restriction. Ex: can only clean 1-ft cube of items per round.
correct, but is a 0 level spell, so can be used 10 times in one minute. most people are less than 10 cubic feet in volume....

Most people are less than 2.25 cubic feet.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TxSam88 wrote:
Temperans wrote:


Presitidigtation is very versatile but has some very harsh restriction. Ex: can only clean 1-ft cube of items per round.
correct, but is a 0 level spell, so can be used 10 times in one minute. most people are less than 10 cubic feet in volume....

Most people are less than 2.25 cubic feet in volume.


Ravingdork wrote:
Most people are less than 2.25 cubic feet in volume.

Er...no. A typical adult human* weighs about 75kg and is slightly less dense than water (we float). So that's about 80 litres, or 0.08 cubic metres, which is 2.825 cu ft. So once you've included the big 250lb half-orc, his armour and pack you probably want to allow at least 5 cuft.

Though in any case, that's still well within the 10 cuft capacity of the spell. A horse is a different matter.

It's a bit odd that it's dependent on volume. You'd think surface area was the important factor.

* I admit that Ravingdork said 'most people' not 'a typical adult human' so arguably he's right if you include children and halflings.


When I google average human volume I get 62,000 cubic centimeters, which should translate to roughly 2.2 cubic feet. Of course, above average humans are higher.


all of the 3 or 4 above comments still fall within the 10 cubic feet volume I mentioned, which means they could be cleaned in less than 1 minute while using using prestidigitation.


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Kevida wrote:
ErichAD wrote:
Fastidiousness's recurring cleanliness is the best, shame it's self only. I could see a character making large statues as command word magic items of fastidiousness to improve local health.
That's an interesting. Perhaps an entrepreneurial PC or NPC could create various magic items to create a business like a bath house or laundromat that that has the implements of cleanliness cast that spell.

As for making a business...

1. be a class that can spam Prestidigitation all day; check w/your GM to see if multiple castings will allow you to clean an entire person, a Large sized creature like a horse, etc.

2. if you've got GM's buy-in... get a stool

3. Park yourself on a stool near an entrance to the settlement. As travelers enter, covered in road dust, dirt smatters and so on, offer to clean them for 5 GP

Spellcasting services in the Core book state that a PC can hire an NPC to cast a L1 spell for 10 GP. By that logic, an NPC can be hired to cast a 0-Level spell for 5 GP. Normally under the Downtime rules, a PC earns a daily wage by making a Skill check and dividing the result by 10 for the number of GP you earn. If a PC uses Craft +5 and takes 10, they earn 1.5 GP in a day.

Well, if just ONE person hires you to cast Prestidigitation from your stool, 5 GP in one day is the equivalent of a 50 on the skill check


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Kevida wrote:
ErichAD wrote:
Fastidiousness's recurring cleanliness is the best, shame it's self only. I could see a character making large statues as command word magic items of fastidiousness to improve local health.
That's an interesting. Perhaps an entrepreneurial PC or NPC could create various magic items to create a business like a bath house or laundromat that that has the implements of cleanliness cast that spell.

As for making a business...

1. be a class that can spam Prestidigitation all day; check w/your GM to see if multiple castings will allow you to clean an entire person, a Large sized creature like a horse, etc.

2. if you've got GM's buy-in... get a stool

3. Park yourself on a stool near an entrance to the settlement. As travelers enter, covered in road dust, dirt smatters and so on, offer to clean them for 5 GP

Spellcasting services in the Core book state that a PC can hire an NPC to cast a L1 spell for 10 GP. By that logic, an NPC can be hired to cast a 0-Level spell for 5 GP. Normally under the Downtime rules, a PC earns a daily wage by making a Skill check and dividing the result by 10 for the number of GP you earn. If a PC uses Craft +5 and takes 10, they earn 1.5 GP in a day.

Well, if just ONE person hires you to cast Prestidigitation from your stool, 5 GP in one day is the equivalent of a 50 on the skill check

I think you would make more if you charged considerably less.


of course you could go all out with a bathtub, bar of soap, and Create Water:C0.

Liberty's Edge

Loren Pechtel wrote:
Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Kevida wrote:
ErichAD wrote:
Fastidiousness's recurring cleanliness is the best, shame it's self only. I could see a character making large statues as command word magic items of fastidiousness to improve local health.
That's an interesting. Perhaps an entrepreneurial PC or NPC could create various magic items to create a business like a bath house or laundromat that that has the implements of cleanliness cast that spell.

As for making a business...

1. be a class that can spam Prestidigitation all day; check w/your GM to see if multiple castings will allow you to clean an entire person, a Large sized creature like a horse, etc.

2. if you've got GM's buy-in... get a stool

3. Park yourself on a stool near an entrance to the settlement. As travelers enter, covered in road dust, dirt smatters and so on, offer to clean them for 5 GP

Spellcasting services in the Core book state that a PC can hire an NPC to cast a L1 spell for 10 GP. By that logic, an NPC can be hired to cast a 0-Level spell for 5 GP. Normally under the Downtime rules, a PC earns a daily wage by making a Skill check and dividing the result by 10 for the number of GP you earn. If a PC uses Craft +5 and takes 10, they earn 1.5 GP in a day.

Well, if just ONE person hires you to cast Prestidigitation from your stool, 5 GP in one day is the equivalent of a 50 on the skill check

I think you would make more if you charged considerably less.

My playing group has calculated that a 1 gp has approximately the purchase power of 50 $/€ (the calculations are approximate enough that the slight difference between € and $ doesn't matter).

So 5 gp would be approximately 250 $/€. For thoroughly cleaning the person, his gear, and his clothes, plus (depending on how you interpret Prestidigitation) trimming his hair and beard, it isn't that outrageous, but still pretty high.
You could get some clients in a first-class hotel, way less on the roadside.


RAW is crazy.

If you went to the trouble of providing a bar of soap, a bathtub and cast Create Water... not at the request of some patron for which you charge the spellcasting rates, but just to have water to provide to clientele that MIGHT want a bath, you'd earn either unskilled labor earnings (1SP/day) or if you had a Profession skill that matched up with bathing folks, you'd earn half your skill check in GP/week of dedicated work.

However, that still means that if your PC has 1 rank in, say, Profession (Innkeeper) but you didn't run an inn, you just provided bathing services with your trusty bathtub, bar of endless soap and create water spells, you could still be taking 10 on the check for a week's work. Wis based spellcaster, say 16 Wis, Profession as a class skill and 1 rank... that's a 17 when taking 10. If your GM allows it, could be that you're also casting Guidance on yourself 1/minute, every minute, of every hour you're working... for 18 instead.

That means your PC by RAW just made 8, maybe 9 GP in a week, which is more than 1 GP/day. Again, following RAW however, you didn't TECHNICALLY expend any additional resources; that's over $50 a day per DR's post there for doing nothing more than offering folks a bar of soap in a bathtub filled with room-temp water.

Also by RAW though, there is a specific cost associated with spellcasting services. If a PC pays an NPC, the cost is 10 GP x Spell Level x Caster Level and for 0 level spells, the Spell Level is considered 1/2. So, if a PC wants to pay an Adept 1 to cast Prestidigitation on them for a quick 1 minute clean and trim, that's 5 GP. Well, if an unskilled hireling in the "equipment/hirelings" section costs 1 SP/Day and the daily wage of a PC using unskilled labor is 1 SP/Day, it stands to reason then that a PC can charge the same amount for casting a 0 level spell as an NPC right?

Diego, of course the GM has the right to say you get no clients in a day. The GM could deem the PC's skill (Craft, Profession, Perform, Sleight of Hand etc) not viable in this settlement to earn a daily wage as well. Just because you have a high Int and 1 rank in Craft (Baskets) as a Class skill doesn't mean you automatically earn a little over 1 GP/day using that skill.

All I was saying is that, by RAW, that's the way to make the most money by casting a spell to clean people or objects.

Incidentally, if your GM was using the Downtime rules and you had a business with the Bath room in it, you'd be making a daily GP check using your relevant skill and gaining a +3 from the Room on that check. Your earnings would be your full check divided by 10. So, Profession (Innkeeper) +7, with the +3 from the Bath room, means you're making 2 GP/day. It also means however you either paid 130 GP outright to own that Room or you spent 65 GP and 8 days constructing it. The fastest the room pays for itself at that point is what, 32.5 days bare minimum? I'd rather take my luck walking around asking folks if they want a Prestidigitation spell...

Liberty's Edge

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

RAW is crazy.

That is the key part.

In the real world, people can make way more or way less than what people earn with Pathfinder job rules.
Let's consider a level 5 bard. We are speaking of someone equivalent to an RL famous performer. Even before the recording industry, radio, TV, and the Internet, they made a good quantity of money. Successful traders make and made sickening levels of money.
Pathfinder mechanics are a simplification for ease of play. If you have a group that wants to play the economic part of the game you will need to make tons of adjustments.

Or wing it using a monetary conversion in RL money to have an idea of the prices of the stuff.

If you consider that a +1 magical sword costs around 115.000 $ and compare it to a tractor, a caterpillar, or other costly hardware you get a better idea of who can buy it and how common it is.


... a Divine Caster using Create Water to earn a living.
My guess is Profession(Barber). (this is kinda the old catch-all for wanna be barbers, groomers, doctors, love specialists, wascally wabbits, etc)

As a GM playing your local cleric who takes your tithe and explanation as to WHY you are using ____ holy blessings to empower bath taking and charging a small fee. Do you have official booklets of ____ available to convert the bathers? Do you talk to them about ____? Can you please roll a Diplomacy check on your local church's cleric?... Otherwise you may get youngsters in nice attire wanting to talk about ____ or if there's a local church and they like your work they may go in with you on it for a percentage...
(I am reminded of a rather amusing book of law from here about hot tubs where consuming vegetables is determined to be the cause of 'certain personal' diseases)

maybe you should go in with a masseuse for "Bath & Body Works"

at this point I'm wondering if you can put wheels on the tub and call it a wagon.


LOL, golarion faiths using orisons for business purposes:

Abadar - cast any spell; that'll be 5 gold b/c mercantilism!

Calistria - create water for a bath; no, it's not 5 GP to get clean...

Pharasma - create water for midwifery; start boiling all of this, and bring towels; we'll bill you for it later!

Sarenrae - spark; FIRE!!!!

In all seriousness though, a Wis based caster isn't necessarily a divine/profane caster, and not all divine/profane casters are trying to convert folks.

Sorcerers with the Empyreal bloodline have nothing to do with churches. Shamans are all about spirits and Druids may or may not have orders depending on what kind of world you're running. Rangers and Hunters, like Druids, likely aren't devoted to a single deity but if they are, like in the case of Freya having rangers dedicated to her service instead of paladins in Frog God Games' setting, I doubt they're concerned with recruiting.

Heck, even Clerics don't have to spend any Downtime preaching to the heathens. Like, the way I understood the Inner Sea gods in Golarion, the common yokels worship most of the pantheon all the time, but only a little bit. Pharasma for example; a Cleric of the goddess devotes all their energy only to her worship, but most folks in Absalom throw out an "Our Mother" any time a pregnancy is announced, a kid is born, or someone dies.

So, if a Cleric of Abadar wants to fill a bathtub as a side hustle when she's in town, it might be that her clients need no preaching and have no issue throwing 5 GP to the church of banking. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'...


I hear "cleanliness is next to godliness"... who knew? I personally figured it was just some cthulhu hogwash to anoint the clueless masses and start their transition into deep ones... that and Norgorber clerics acting as insurance salesmen running scams on avoiding accidents...


A reminder that if services are common then the price goes way down. There are a decent enough amount of adepts in any given town that certain basic spells would be extremely cheap. Bigger cities only have it worse since there are a lot more 1st level characters in general. 1st level spells being limited per day means that you can charge more.

So instead of dividing cantrips by 2, dividing it by 10 or 20 seems more appropriate.


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The presumption here is that Prestidigitation takes no skill in itself other than casting it. Sure, you can give the guy a haircut, but is it a good haircut? Is he clean, or have you missed a bit, or tried to remove a tattoo and scraped him raw? Is the 'dirt' that you removed from his clothes actually a wax-print Batik pattern that's supposed to be there?

And likewise, if you want to flavour food, how appropriately did you flavour it? Basil and garlic ice cream is flavoured, but I suspect it's not nice. And so it goes.

As it's just a 0th level all-purpose spell, I'd think that it's a case of Jack of all trades, master of none. It's just providing the tools to do a job, but none of the skill.

Liberty's Edge

Mudfoot wrote:

The presumption here is that Prestidigitation takes no skill in itself other than casting it. Sure, you can give the guy a haircut, but is it a good haircut? Is he clean, or have you missed a bit, or tried to remove a tattoo and scraped him raw? Is the 'dirt' that you removed from his clothes actually a wax-print Batik pattern that's supposed to be there?

And likewise, if you want to flavour food, how appropriately did you flavour it? Basil and garlic ice cream is flavoured, but I suspect it's not nice. And so it goes.

As it's just a 0th level all-purpose spell, I'd think that it's a case of Jack of all trades, master of none. It's just providing the tools to do a job, but none of the skill.

Inventing a haircut or choosing the best one for a person requires skill.

Basic stuff like cutting a beard and trimming hairs in a standard way, way less. Profession and craft skills can be done untrained, so unless you are trying something difficult there is a very low chance of failure.

Same for flavoring food. You only need to remember what was the flavor of the food you want to copy, you aren't adding real spices. Probably it will be bland, but getting some strange flavor will only happen if you are trying to do something strange.


Always remember that Prestidigitation is always worse than other spells because it is so versatile.

So if you are treating it as "create a disguise, but its just yourself but prettier" then it should be worse than disguise self and similar.


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Whoa whoa, I never said prestidigitation is equal to a professional cut and style job. I figured the PC is cleaning someone, maybe trimming split ends or doing a little beard shaping. If a client wants a perm or a dye job and blowout, unless they want their hair monochrome (insert basic color here that Prestidigitation can do), they need to go to Ye Olde Salon.

As for skills used in conjunction with Prestidigitation, that'd be entirely up to the GM in the houserule territory. There is no "skill use" called out with the spell. Incidentally, Profession is a skill that cannot be used Untrained so DR, sorry, no Profession (Salon Stylist) available without putting a rank in it.

Craft skills though...So Prestidigitation is avail to Psychic casters where Int may or may not be a factor of the PC, but otherwise it's a Wizard/Sorcerer, Bard, or Magus spell. Wizards and Magi need Int for casting and Bards that keep their Lore usage or bard-like casters who have a Lore component might have at least a +1 Mod from Int.

Craft is an Int based skill usable untrained. Craft (Clothing) is one option for the skill. A PC then with a high Int might attempt a Craft (Clothing) skill, maybe not to professionally style or even mend clothing worn by their client, but at least to professionally launder it well. Similarly you might rule the same thing for Craft (Armor), Craft (Weapons), Craft (Leather) and so on.

Again, I'm NOT suggesting that this kind of cleaning would grant bonuses to a Disguise check, grant any sort of combat bonuses or otherwise mechanically alter game play; Prestidigitation has specific wording that it can't do those things. As for getting the client and their gear really, REALLY clean though... I think the case could be made that 1 minute with Prestidigitation and some Craft skill checks could pull that off.

Lastly, I don't think Prestidigitation just RANDOMLY assigns smells or flavors. The caster needs to choose those. Again, these cannot have explicit mechanical impact on gameplay per the spell, so no poisoned drinks or giving someone a Stench ability. However, the case could be made that assigning a foul odor to a person might give creatures with the Scent ability the opportunity to count that person as having a "strong smell" for detecting that person at 60' instead of 30'.

So, if I can choose the scent or flavor I deliver to my clients, then for 5 GP and 1 minute of a person's time, I can: expertly clean and launder their person, clothing, gear, armor, weapons etc; trim (not style, but trim) any hair to uniform length; put a single simple color on their nails; leave them smelling of jasmine, lavender, patchouli, etc for at least an hour after leaving my care.

I'd consider a service like that worth 5 GP.

Liberty's Edge

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Incidentally, Profession is a skill that cannot be used Untrained so DR, sorry, no Profession (Salon Stylist) available without putting a rank in it.

I was sure it could be done untrained. Now I am wondering how may parties end with food poisoning because no one has the Profession (cook) skill.

;-)

You recognize the adventurers because they are the ones that bur the water.


I'll just comment that you should avoid making skills TOO specific O, that way madness lies; let me shun that


What's going on here is that people are using what it would cost to hire a caster for a purpose as an estimate of what people can make doing it--in practice there are many spells that generally would have no customers at standard casting rates.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Incidentally, Profession is a skill that cannot be used Untrained so DR, sorry, no Profession (Salon Stylist) available without putting a rank in it.

I was sure it could be done untrained. Now I am wondering how may parties end with food poisoning because no one has the Profession (cook) skill.

;-)

You recognize the adventurers because they are the ones that bur the water.

I’ve never had a character try to cook without having the skills. If no one is a chef, then you just eat cold rations on the journey and warm meals at an inn.

Scarab Sages

Mainly posting to say thanks for the link to the 101 spells for the common man I like that sort of thing. As for prestidigitation I tend to treat spells as using the casters skills unless they specifically state they acheive a result or are really powerful wish/miracle so you can use it for a shave and haircut but you'll only get as good a job as the caster would do which may include missed tufts of hair, uneven fringes or like nicks and cuts. The advantage is it can bypass tools e.g. you may overspice the meat but with prestidigitation you don't need spices to do it.

Liberty's Edge

Overspice the meat? Sure. I think making it bland is more probable, but both results are probable.

More than an uneven cut I see the result as "place a bowl on the head of the character and cut around the rim" (When I was a child there was a neighbor that did exactly that to her sons). You don't get little nicks and cuts as the spell can't do any damage or discomfort.

@Melkiador In RL I know a lot of people that cook without anything equivalent to a rank in a skill. As I see it, Profession (cooking) is the skill to cook at a professional or gourmet level, not the skill to boil water and make a boiled egg.


Profession(anything) is basically "how good are you at this if it were a job".

Craft(anything) is "how good are you at making things".

So a normal cook might have craft (food) but a person doing the job not caring about the quality or food might have profession (cook).


I suspect that the average peasant and his wife have no ranks in Profession: Cook, but somehow they seem to survive. It's a mystery.


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Fry an egg. Boil a potato. Grill some meat. None of these require much skill. The result might not taste that great, but it will be edible.

The Mercenaries Spies and Private Eyes game gave everyone a free rank in cooking skill. Of course in the modern world, you can get microwaveable meals.


Mudfoot wrote:
I suspect that the average peasant and his wife have no ranks in Profession: Cook, but somehow they seem to survive. It's a mystery.

I suspect they all just take 10/20 and call it a day.


Keep in mind that everyone including commoners get skill points. What else is a peasant’s wife going to put their skill points into? I highly doubt they are putting them into anything except craft, profession and maybe handle animal. Most of the time the farmer’s wife is probably going to have the game equivalent to a professional skill housewife. Not sure what the actual title would be. Just because adventures ignore these skills does not mean that NPC’s do.

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