How do you sleep at night? Therapy for adventurers...

[VoodistMonk]

Is there therapy available for retired/ex-adventurers, or literally anyone that has even witnessed the everday horrors in Golarion? Much less participated in said horrors...

What class/archetype/skill check/spell/deity would you turn to? Would this all fall under the special insanity and gore rules?

In a perfect world, every player would be so invested in their characters that this would all be roleplayed around the campfire, the time spent travelling would be filled with charater backstories... the horrors of their past... the things that keep them up at night. You spend 8 hours in a guard tower with a complete stranger and you come out knowing their hometowm, their first car, what age they got drunk the first time, what age they lost their virginity, their favorite color, their worst fear... it's somehow more intimate than a first date. But you can go 19 levels without ever learning the Barbarian's name. Lol.

So, how does a character deal with living through some of the things that happen, even in printed AP's? Is it expected that it is just magic'ed away?

PS. I have typed or started to type this thread several times in the last few days, and erased it each time. I do not want to offend anyone, or come off as making fun of therapy. I recently spent entirely way too much time on the phone, battling asinine menues and robotic messages to get in touch with a VA therapist, so that's why it's on my mind.

[ErichAD]

Rules wise, someone to talk to, rest if you have positive charisma, restoration line spells. Somehow this feels even more flaccid than getting brought back to life if you die. Apparently you can make it so only rest works, so people without charisma go crazy and everyone else gets better.

I've got to say, that's pretty messed up.

I'm of the opinion that you wouldn't gain experience without keeping the side effects of the bad experiences. You've got to carry those events with you if you want to keep going on fighting life or death struggles to save the world without getting knocked back on your heels every time. You never get better, you just come up with plans on how to deal with that horror next time.

You know, like normal.

[Taja the Barbarian]

How do I sleep at night??? On a huge pile of treasure, of course!

I mean, I'm not actually retired yet, but someday...

[Senko]

Probably either very badly or many, many sesssions with a psychiatrist. That's not sarcasm one of the AP's (strange aeon's I think) has the players start off in a sanitorium. Given pathfinder is roughly Victorian era they'd probably be fairly rudimentary in their treatment methods and exorcism of demons is a valid option but they do exist so they'd be an option. Probably fairly rare and expensive too but that's less of an issue for most retired adventures. They may also seek solace with a priest of their faith talking to them about their troubles and nightmares.

[Mysterious Stranger]

One big difference between the real world and a game is that the deities take a more active role in the world. This is going to mean that for a lot of people there is less doubt whether their actions were right or wrong. When you worship a deity, and you know that deity approves of your actions you are less conflicted. Also, there is going to be less guilt killing demons and undead as opposed to other humans.

In the modern world we place less importance on religion so therefore it gives us less comfort. I think that is why in the past people who fought in wars seemed to deal with it better. They did not need therapists as much because they turned to religion more. Basically, their clergy were their therapists. This was the case with my father who was a World War II vet. Growing up I always thought my mom was the religious one in the family, but really it was my father. It was not until he passed away that I really found out how important religion was to him. He never made a big deal about it, but he was a man of great faith.

In the game setting Religion plays a greater role in everyday life then it does in the modern world. It makes sense that good religions will be providing services to their congregation. Evil religions take a different approach. Instead of counseling the person and helping them work through it they encourage people to only think of themselves. In the end the results are similar, but I have to say I think the good churches approach is a much better.

[Diego Rossi]

Mysterious Stranger made a very good argument. Religion helps.

Another "classical" solution for adventurers is excessive drinking and other excessive behaviors.

Then there is the de-humanification of your opponents. The opposite of what modern society does. We tend to see a kind of reflection of ourselves in animals and even plants. We emphasize with them, so harming them harms ourselves. In the medieval/renaissance mentality of our characters, even other humans matter less, so harming them is less problematic.

The horrible entities from outer space or other planes are another matter. Her, possibly, a modern human would have a better ability to handle the consequence of the encounters. We are way less certain of being the center of the universe and all that mater. On the other hand, people in Golarion and the other worlds are used to the existence of other sapient species, even very different ones.

Moving to the game mechanics, mental problems are generally depicted as a form of ability drain from the mental stas. Restoration, greater restoration, and heal, with different degrees of efficacy, can cure mental problems.

A retired adventurer that was successful enough probably has some of those spells cast on him in the course of his career, removing or lessening the mental damage. And if he had problems after retiring it is probable that he could get them cast by a local church.

A retired unsuccessful adventurer almost certainly is a cripple or even a corpse in some ditch.

[Kasoh]

There's probably a poor sample bias here, but every time we visit sanatoriums in Pathfinder, they end up pretty gnarly.

Heal can remove insanity and cures a lot of mental ailments, but at a certain point, it depends on if your table is into dealing with the consequences of repeated, brutal, violence.

PCs in games I've been in became quite weary of it all. Tired, paranoid, despondent. I've come to assume that this is why there aren't a lot of high level PCs. They retire and want to be done with adventuring.

[Diego Rossi]

Kasoh wrote:

There's probably a poor sample bias here, but every time we visit sanatoriums in Pathfinder, they end up pretty gnarly.

If I lived in the world of Pathfinder, I would resist with all my might if someone tried to bring me within 100 meters of a sanatorium and I wouldn't live within 10 kilometers of one. ;-)

[VoodistMonk]

Kasoh wrote:

PCs in games I've been in became quite weary of it all. Tired, paranoid, despondent.

I have seen this, as well. Probably guilty of it, myself.

[Senko]

I admit in a world like Golarion early sanitoriums are probably more likely to wind up a place of terrrible horrors than our world given the difference between "I think the rats in the walls are talking to me" and "the rats in the walls ARE talking to you and will eat the nasty people trying to take you away" is well non-existent in a lot of cases. Not to mention examples like Friday the 13th Part VII where the psychiatrist is trying to make the girl use her psychic powers for his own fame rather than actually help her recover from killing her dad." Not to mention what happens in Until Dawn and other horror games.

Religion ironically was my first thought of solace. My thought processes went "Adventurers probably talk to their priests as there's no therapists." . . . "Wait its Victorian era was psychology and psychiatry around that early? Well I know they had hysterectimies and the like." . . . "Wait one AP STARTS in a sanitorium". Then I posted about the psychiatrists and forgot the clerics didn't I.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Yeah... I'm goin' the opposite of Mystery Strange there. In a world like Golarion, while you know definitively there's right and wrong b/c religion, you also know there's monsters. Religious monsters. Like, beings from other planes that can see into your mind, your heart, and judge you for that right and wrong.

Imagine that for a second. You know your deity is real and they can peek into your very essence when they need to. But you also know Asmodeus is real; that means devils are real. The nine hells are a REAL place. Maybe if you're pious, virtuous you won't see into the Abyss, but with magic and wizards and religion, there's no guarantee that the Abyss isn't seeing into you.

I'm a commoner working in the fields around, say, Absalom. It is common knowledge that if I pick a fight with that old human man in the point hat with the stars all over his robe, he might just be a kook or he MIGHT be able to explode me with a few words and some bat guano.

Can you imagine the heightened level of fear and paranoia real magic would bring to most people in Golarion? Or the existence of demons and angels, gods and devils... dragons?

Let's put it another way: mechanically, a commoner with no Knowledge skills could conceivably know what a zombie or skeleton is. This means that everyone has some vague knowledge that some dark forces can be wielded to animate a corpse. But yet, they worship Pharasma and they KNOW their deity is real. How can an all powerful being that opposes the undead exist, while at the same time the undead continue to rise?

Fear. Doubt. Anguish. I would think that there'd be a lot of business for therapy in Golarion.

[Senko]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Yeah... I'm goin' the opposite of Mystery Strange there. In a world like Golarion, while you know definitively there's right and wrong b/c religion, you also know there's monsters. Religious monsters. Like, beings from other planes that can see into your mind, your heart, and judge you for that right and wrong.

Imagine that for a second. You know your deity is real and they can peek into your very essence when they need to. But you also know Asmodeus is real; that means devils are real. The nine hells are a REAL place. Maybe if you're pious, virtuous you won't see into the Abyss, but with magic and wizards and religion, there's no guarantee that the Abyss isn't seeing into you.

I'm a commoner working in the fields around, say, Absalom. It is common knowledge that if I pick a fight with that old human man in the point hat with the stars all over his robe, he might just be a kook or he MIGHT be able to explode me with a few words and some bat guano.

Can you imagine the heightened level of fear and paranoia real magic would bring to most people in Golarion? Or the existence of demons and angels, gods and devils... dragons?

Let's put it another way: mechanically, a commoner with no Knowledge skills could conceivably know what a zombie or skeleton is. This means that everyone has some vague knowledge that some dark forces can be wielded to animate a corpse. But yet, they worship Pharasma and they KNOW their deity is real. How can an all powerful being that opposes the undead exist, while at the same time the undead continue to rise?

Fear. Doubt. Anguish. I would think that there'd be a lot of business for therapy in Golarion.

For me I figure your average run of the mill commoner isn't going to be any more bothered by these things than a peasant in our own mideval period or (given I know even in recent years people have killed others for being witches) a particularly devout person today. Yes they may know demons could possess them but this is no different to an exorcism or the like. Its simply going to be beyond their scope of concern unless for some mysterious reason the milk is suddenly sour from the cows or their daughter starts vomiting and chanting in a foreign language. Yes there are demons but there are also angels, villains matched by heroes and all those things happen. However that's in far away forrin places or the domain of the mighty they aren't going to care about you and your desire to one day own a cow of your own in a quiet little village in the middle of nowhere. Contrary to adventurers most people go their entire lives without being targetted by eldritch horrors from beyond the stars unless they go off exploring and colonizing. It just means when the old man say's "Stay away from Camp Crystal Lake its got a death curse." or the local farmer say's "We don go up to the old nunnery in the hills there's a dark presence there." people will (a) believe them and (b) they'll be telling the truth.

Personally I'm less bothered by that than by the existence of things like Hellfire Ray. Its one thing to know "Hell's real and if I'm a bad person I'll go there rather than heaven." Its quite another to know "this spell bypasses the normal check in process and sends you to hell REGARDLESS of where you should go." THAT is worrying, sure there are ways around it (will saves + raising from the dead) but just the fact a core spell any decently high level spellcaster can use (its on pretty much everyone's spell list) to send even a saint to hell is pretty worrying. Redirecting souls final destination should not be in mortal hands.

[The Shifty Mongoose]

There was a sanitorium in Rise of the Runelords, with part of the horror coming from it having been run by a man who was more interested in studying insanity than caring for its inmates as people. He'd made zombies out of previous patients, but he was the best defense in the area for a plot-related thing that was going on. It left my PCs in a moral dilemma.

Similarly, I had a charcter once who was a LG Cult Master mesmerist, who I played as a magic psychotherapist. He was honest that his False Lay-On-Hands was a special trick he had learned and improved to ignore pain, and that they'd need some real healing or medicine later. The Leadership followers he would get would end up being staff for his eventual praxis, but I left the adventure before it got that far.

[Mark Hoover 330]

In the Settlements section of the rules a Thorpe is only 1-19 people and they have 1st level spellcasting capabilities for sale to the general public. This isn't someone willing to buy or sell potions and scrolls, that's a visible member of the community capable of calling forth some supernatural power at their fingertips on a daily basis as a business model.

Mechanically, any DC 10 knowledge check can be attempted by anyone regardless of your skills or Int score. Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Planes, Religion) can ID monsters less than CR 1 with a DC 10, so that's lots of humanoids, weird PC/NPC races, low-CR undead and so on. If the avg mortal NPC has an Int of 10 and no Knowledge skills, that still means a 55% chance that they know of the existence of any of these creatures.

Per the Exploration rules, there is a 20% chance, 4 times/day, that a wanderer passing through a hex will have an encounter. A hex can be defined as a settled area and while, in settlements or their hinterlands, the majority of encounters are likely urban in nature, that doesn't preclude the encounter of ANY creature of an appropriate CR being in a settled hex and menacing an NPC.

From all of the above, just RAW alone tells us that every commoner knows that monsters are real, the dead can rise from their graves, travel isn't always safe and magic is a fact of life. Now throw in Golarion-specific facts: The Starstone, the Worldwound, Treerazer, and so on. For some countries these are myths and fairy tales but if you live in Ustlav you know, DEFINITIVELY, that there is an open gateway of demonic energy, like a radioactive ribbon of energy, that is spewing out literal demons into this world.

Now, some of the RAW I'm quoting here is meant to make the mechanics and lives of being an adventurer in this fictional game easier. The unintended consequence though is that every person living in Golarion has to contend with some fairly brutal and fear-inducing knowledge. Speaking of knowledge, there's one last thing I'd like to point out about magic: by RAW there isn't a single use of Knowledge: Arcana, other than ID'ing CR less-than-0 monsters, that can be achieved without at least 1 rank in this skill, so while every Settlement has a spellcaster for hire, a firm knowledge and understanding of that person's powers wouldn't be widespread throughout the community.

So, you have a person living in your community, perhaps someone you interact with on a daily basis, who might be able to heal the sick, start a fire, shoot painful beams of force from their hands, etc, whose powers and abilities you don't understand. This person wields a power which, common knowledge tells you, used in a certain way can animate a corpse to kill without mercy.

While that spellcaster may be a neighbor, maybe even a friend, you've got to REALLY trust that person in order to get past the age-old "humans hate what they don't understand" trope. Gods forbid that local spellcaster for hire has a neutral or evil alignment or otherwise abuses their power and status for personal gain.

[Senko]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

In the Settlements section of the rules a Thorpe is only 1-19 people and they have 1st level spellcasting capabilities for sale to the general public. This isn't someone willing to buy or sell potions and scrolls, that's a visible member of the community capable of calling forth some supernatural power at their fingertips on a daily basis as a business model.

Mechanically, any DC 10 knowledge check can be attempted by anyone regardless of your skills or Int score. Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Planes, Religion) can ID monsters less than CR 1 with a DC 10, so that's lots of humanoids, weird PC/NPC races, low-CR undead and so on. If the avg mortal NPC has an Int of 10 and no Knowledge skills, that still means a 55% chance that they know of the existence of any of these creatures.

Per the Exploration rules, there is a 20% chance, 4 times/day, that a wanderer passing through a hex will have an encounter. A hex can be defined as a settled area and while, in settlements or their hinterlands, the majority of encounters are likely urban in nature, that doesn't preclude the encounter of ANY creature of an appropriate CR being in a settled hex and menacing an NPC.

From all of the above, just RAW alone tells us that every commoner knows that monsters are real, the dead can rise from their graves, travel isn't always safe and magic is a fact of life. Now throw in Golarion-specific facts: The Starstone, the Worldwound, Treerazer, and so on. For some countries these are myths and fairy tales but if you live in Ustlav you know, DEFINITIVELY, that there is an open gateway of demonic energy, like a radioactive ribbon of energy, that is spewing out literal demons into this world.

Now, some of the RAW I'm quoting here is meant to make the mechanics and lives of being an adventurer in this fictional game easier. The unintended consequence though is that every person living in Golarion has to contend with some...

The flip side is familiarity breeds contempt. If you know (a) there's undead roaming the hill where the bandit lord used to live and (b) Tim who puts in a good day work can also hurl bolts of positive energy to lay those undead to rest are you going to hate and fear Tim?

[Diego Rossi]

My neighbor is a hunter and he has several deadly guns. He can kill me as easily as the guy that can hurl fireballs. I don't live in fear of him.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Senko wrote:

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

In the Settlements section of the rules a Thorpe is only 1-19 people and they have 1st level spellcasting capabilities for sale to the general public. This isn't someone willing to buy or sell potions and scrolls, that's a visible member of the community capable of calling forth some supernatural power at their fingertips on a daily basis as a business model.

Mechanically, any DC 10 knowledge check can be attempted by anyone regardless of your skills or Int score. Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Planes, Religion) can ID monsters less than CR 1 with a DC 10, so that's lots of humanoids, weird PC/NPC races, low-CR undead and so on. If the avg mortal NPC has an Int of 10 and no Knowledge skills, that still means a 55% chance that they know of the existence of any of these creatures.

Per the Exploration rules, there is a 20% chance, 4 times/day, that a wanderer passing through a hex will have an encounter. A hex can be defined as a settled area and while, in settlements or their hinterlands, the majority of encounters are likely urban in nature, that doesn't preclude the encounter of ANY creature of an appropriate CR being in a settled hex and menacing an NPC.

From all of the above, just RAW alone tells us that every commoner knows that monsters are real, the dead can rise from their graves, travel isn't always safe and magic is a fact of life. Now throw in Golarion-specific facts: The Starstone, the Worldwound, Treerazer, and so on. For some countries these are myths and fairy tales but if you live in Ustlav you know, DEFINITIVELY, that there is an open gateway of demonic energy, like a radioactive ribbon of energy, that is spewing out literal demons into this world.

Now, some of the RAW I'm quoting here is meant to make the mechanics and lives of being an adventurer in this fictional game easier. The unintended consequence though is that every person living in

...

I don't know... ever read the tagline from X-Men comics about how people hate and fear mutants? You know Tim can throw bolts that slay the undead; cool! Maybe you want Tim to solve other problems, and when he doesn't you become distraught. You accuse Tim of hoarding his power, not using it for the betterment of all. And for that matter, why does Tim charge you 5 GP every time he's gotta throw one of those bolts in the first place?

Tim has ALL the power... just sitting over there, in his fancy cottage while the other 18 of you in your community live in thatched hovels... why should all the adventurers who pass through only talk to Tim... pay TIM for his fancy "spells?" If YOU had Tim's power...

Wait, that's it! If Tim won't use his powers for free, you'll MAKE him use them! Maybe even take them!

… and boom, the Contract Devil that's been watching you this whole time shows up with something for you to sign. Or maybe a hag, or a Biloko, or whatever "mastermind" type villain in the area preying on the craven and angry. Then you're manipulated, your brain gets messed with, and you need therapy.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Diego Rossi wrote:

My neighbor is a hunter and he has several deadly guns. He can kill me as easily as the guy that can hurl fireballs. I don't live in fear of him.

I do. Folks with boom booms have committed unspeakable acts in the nation in which I reside. There is a mild but ever-present fear I have at all times of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[SheepishEidolon]

Golarion has a few creatures with superhuman wisdom. Wisdom helps to intuitively understand what's going on inside of other creatures. Maybe a local good-aligned dragon volunteers to listen and guide traumatized humanoids. Maybe an angel uses the role of a patient innkeeper as a disguise and a chance to casually further the goals of Good. Maybe a monk got enlightened enough to understand fellow mortals within moments.

These individuals would be very rare, but some of them could be well-known, so people might travel a long way to see them.

[Diego Rossi]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

My neighbor is a hunter and he has several deadly guns. He can kill me as easily as the guy that can hurl fireballs. I don't live in fear of him.

I do. Folks with boom booms have committed unspeakable acts in the nation in which I reside. There is a mild but ever-present fear I have at all times of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Guys with boom booms have killed people here too, the "lupara" after all was born as a hunting shotgun but had been known worldwide for the use by Cosa Nostra. People get insane even here and kill other people.

But, on average, the neighbor with the hunting rifles isn't more dangerous than the neighbor that repairs furniture in his home and doesn't know anything about safety measures or the guy that likes to push his Ferrari when moving along a city road with a limit of 30 mph.

[Senko]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Senko wrote:

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

In the Settlements section of the rules a Thorpe is only 1-19 people and they have 1st level spellcasting capabilities for sale to the general public. This isn't someone willing to buy or sell potions and scrolls, that's a visible member of the community capable of calling forth some supernatural power at their fingertips on a daily basis as a business model.

Mechanically, any DC 10 knowledge check can be attempted by anyone regardless of your skills or Int score. Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Planes, Religion) can ID monsters less than CR 1 with a DC 10, so that's lots of humanoids, weird PC/NPC races, low-CR undead and so on. If the avg mortal NPC has an Int of 10 and no Knowledge skills, that still means a 55% chance that they know of the existence of any of these creatures.

Per the Exploration rules, there is a 20% chance, 4 times/day, that a wanderer passing through a hex will have an encounter. A hex can be defined as a settled area and while, in settlements or their hinterlands, the majority of encounters are likely urban in nature, that doesn't preclude the encounter of ANY creature of an appropriate CR being in a settled hex and menacing an NPC.

From all of the above, just RAW alone tells us that every commoner knows that monsters are real, the dead can rise from their graves, travel isn't always safe and magic is a fact of life. Now throw in Golarion-specific facts: The Starstone, the Worldwound, Treerazer, and so on. For some countries these are myths and fairy tales but if you live in Ustlav you know, DEFINITIVELY, that there is an open gateway of demonic energy, like a radioactive ribbon of energy, that is spewing out literal demons into this world.

Now, some of the RAW I'm quoting here is meant to make the mechanics and lives of being an adventurer in this fictional game easier. The unintended consequence though is

...

X-men's not really the best example particularly since its set in a sort of semi-communal marvel world and people hate Bob the mutant who can hurl lighting but don't hate Thor the Asgardian god who can do the same thing + more besides. Its an interesting world to look at but it doesn't make the most thematic sense. Avengers are a group of people with superpowers and beloved, X-men are also a group of people with superpowers and hated? Which doesn't even get into the fact that the primarily X-men focused stuff is Human/Mutant wheras in Golarion it'd be more Human/Undead Abomination/Demon/Angel/intelligent animal.../dragon/owlbear/alien being.../android/hobgoblin... and so on. As Terry Pratchet put it in our world black and white fight, in the Discworld Black and White band together to beat up green.

Its also a lot more understood than "mysterious hermit" so while peasant A may not be able to explain Tim the enchanters magic he'll know there's a whole slew of horrific things out there that aren't human who Tim can help him against and that Tim is also part of the Nethys Accademy of magic licenced and authorized by other mages and if he were up to no good there'd be options to deal with him. Saying someone will fear magic because they don't understand it in a world like Golarion is like saying someone will fear Science because they don't understand it. Admitedly some do but for most people its just something they don't worry about. Even in our world there have been court Alchemists and wizards as well as I believe in some cultures recognized jobs doing magic.

[Diego Rossi]

Royal astrologers. Even Galileo made horoscopes to round up his stipend as a teacher.

In Golarion a good number of people will distrust magic users that aren't sanctioned by some kind of authority. It depends on the person's and the nation's alignment and culture.

A wandering bard can be an entertainer or a swindler and use magic for both, so probably they are seen as a saltimbanco or a mountebank (I am not sure if it translates well, I mean a street performer of dubious repute).

Wandering clerics, recluse wizards, shady sorcerers, all can have negative connotations and be considered some kind of gypsy, but at the same time, they can be seen as heroes, holy men that go around healing the sick, saviors from natural disasters and so on.
Essentially, they are seen as "adventurers", someone that probably you will thank profusely when needed but don't want near your daughter or son when there isn't any trouble.

[Senko]

I was actually thinking of the Onmyōji of Japan but those work too.

[Scavion]

Modify Memory is a good low level spell. My Psion Nomad in a game demanded one from his employer as worker's comp because he accidentally glimpsed Shub-niggurath through an interdimensional gateway and it was freaking him out.

In Carrion Crown, we Culling of Stratholme'd a town and that kept Gadrick up at night. Both his patron deities were pretty cool with it, but it wasn't until he could sit down with his mentor/surrogate father and have a talk that he really got over it.

[Loren Pechtel]

I would figure heal would handle PTSD perfectly. Once you have access to that kind of magic there shouldn't be an issue.

Also, a lot of not sleeping at night is about situations in which there was no good answer. That's rarely the case for adventurers unless the DM sets out to create a world where it's a problem.

[Senko]

Loren Pechtel wrote:

I would figure heal would handle PTSD perfectly. Once you have access to that kind of magic there shouldn't be an issue.

Also, a lot of not sleeping at night is about situations in which there was no good answer. That's rarely the case for adventurers unless the DM sets out to create a world where it's a problem.

Heal is one of those spells I've been in a debate about in the past wondering if it has any limits e.g. healing magical insanity, healing trauma induced insanity, healing genetic disorder caused insanity.

[Loren Pechtel]

Senko wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:

I would figure heal would handle PTSD perfectly. Once you have access to that kind of magic there shouldn't be an issue.

Also, a lot of not sleeping at night is about situations in which there was no good answer. That's rarely the case for adventurers unless the DM sets out to create a world where it's a problem.

Heal is one of those spells I've been in a debate about in the past wondering if it has any limits e.g. healing magical insanity, healing trauma induced insanity, healing genetic disorder caused insanity.

I would draw the line at genetic issues--it can only repair. Genetic disorders might not produce the desired outcome but that's how the creature is, there's nothing to repair. You need to rewrite the genetics to change them and that opens a huge issue with balance. What exactly can you rewrite?

Power-wise things like removing a genetic defect or changing a trivial gene expression are non-issues and a fairly low level spell should suffice. However, the ability to play with genetics opens the possibility of finding and copying important genes from one creature to another. Rewriting genes to give you an 18 stat is extremely powerful.

[VoodistMonk]

Magically altering genetics... these are the things that keep adventurers up at night. Lol.

[Senko]

Loren Pechtel wrote:

Senko wrote:

Loren Pechtel wrote:

I would figure heal would handle PTSD perfectly. Once you have access to that kind of magic there shouldn't be an issue.

Also, a lot of not sleeping at night is about situations in which there was no good answer. That's rarely the case for adventurers unless the DM sets out to create a world where it's a problem.

Heal is one of those spells I've been in a debate about in the past wondering if it has any limits e.g. healing magical insanity, healing trauma induced insanity, healing genetic disorder caused insanity.

I would draw the line at genetic issues--it can only repair. Genetic disorders might not produce the desired outcome but that's how the creature is, there's nothing to repair. You need to rewrite the genetics to change them and that opens a huge issue with balance. What exactly can you rewrite?

Power-wise things like removing a genetic defect or changing a trivial gene expression are non-issues and a fairly low level spell should suffice. However, the ability to play with genetics opens the possibility of finding and copying important genes from one creature to another. Rewriting genes to give you an 18 stat is extremely powerful.

Well we do have canon malfunctioning clone spells that rip your soul out of your body and permanently insert it into a Sorsha the runelord of rusts one. That's a fairly major change. I also recall a spell I'm pretty sure was 3rd party that turned the target into something else I think it was human. Maybe it turned a human into an elf can't recall either way it was high level and a permanent change.

In fact thinking about it you could make an argument using wish to get an inherent +1-5 to a stat is genetic rewriting to make you stronger/smarter/etc.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Heal is a conjuration spell not a transmutation. It uses “positive energy to wipe away injury and afflictions”. It also does not remove negative levels or restore permanently drained ability scores.

Rewriting a targets genetic code is possible with magic but it would be a transmutation not a conjuration. I think a lot of the genetic abnormalities would also cause permanent ability drain which heal specifically does not heal. So, I would say that heal is not going to fix genetic disorders.

[Mark Hoover 330]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Magically altering genetics... these are the things that keep adventurers up at night. Lol.

How do you think Sorcerers, Arcanists, Bloodragers and other "bloodline powers" folks were made?

Some damage you just need to grow from. Wis damage, inflicted insanity, even genetic diseases can all be cured using Heal, Restoration, Limited Wish and so on. Trauma though, those scars will remain.

Though, if you catch it fast enough, there are memory removal spells that will scrub the brain clean. That'd be a decent way to treat mental trauma.