Castle_Bravo's page

If we go by this argument, we need to go back to the thirteen classes that were available for second edition Dark Sun and remove all others.

Not really. This is obv not the case since I see no problem with a lot of the pathfinder classes and think they should be included (as is or 'wish listed' like in the list above).

Simple. Their access to their powers manifests from their bloodline, but they still need to draw energy from the surrounding flora to power their spells.

Then why don't the source 'magical creature' defile when they use their spell like abilities? Why does the sorcerer evolve into a dragon when he is bloodlined as an undead or whatever.

For what it is worth, I wasn't really trying to convince anyone of anything just thought (and still do think) your project shows a lot of promise. Maybe my posts in this thread seem like a troll to you but honestly this forum has a lot of kiddiegloves just based on who plays pathfinder for the most part... and you are writing a conversion for a game that features slavery and cannibalism.

Still not trying to diss (you would know if I was), I am just an old jaded man. So I am sorry if my words seem/ed like an attack. I have tried to give you the '2e ds' perspective as someone who has tried to do a conversion like this before. It was wayyyy to much for me and I really don't have enough PF rules knowledge..

I sincerely hope you succeed where I have failed and that I will soon stand on your shoulders. So from here I'll thank you again and enjoy the rest from the sidelines. Best of luck.

On the other hand, if noone picks a sorc you don't have to explain anything and the class is already designed so you don't lose much including it.

These issues are...?

I kinda go into when I suggest pulling them.. but when 2e ds was created, sorcs were not a base class so all of the canon lore assuming the old 'vancian' style of casting. If Sorcs still derive their powers from their heritage, why do they need defiling at all? How is magic so rare and controlled if some have magical powers that naturally occur. Can a sorc evolve into a dragon?

Also many bloodlines aren't really appropriate for a few reasons: base monsters for the bloodline is poorly represented in DS (aberrant, abyssal and the list goes on and on); and a few monsters that are totally or strongly psionic instead of magical (yaunti, a lot of undead). So if you can get over these issues, you are still left with a shell of the class as described in PF core.

On its face there don't seem to any issues with it, but the more you dig into the details it becomes slightly problematic imo.

+1, I don't really mean like literally ninjas, but more like 'ki thieves.'

Oracle/Witch I think could both be appropriate for arcane or divine casters (read their class features more than the specific spell lists). I don't think spontaneous arcane casters are super problematic within DS, but there are just a few issues with their execution that one should be aware of.

Def can appreciate your thoughts on Domains. Re: madness for example I think works better than what I was suggesting.

If I help do you want to rework existing domains that are clearly tied to one element, ala getting rid of ice spells for water? Example, here are my reworks of a few of them that I just did. I'd also be willing to create a first draft for a magma domain.

Air Domain
Replace lightning arc SP with Wind Blast from Wind Domain.
Replace Electricity Resistance with Air Friend
Air Friend (Ex): At 6th level, you gain a +6 save versus effects caused by the elemental planes of rain, air and sun; additionally you gain a +6 to save versus any natural air or wind phenomenon. At level 20, you gain complete immunity from any effect caused by the elemental plane of air. Additionally, at will, you may resist movement and damage caused by any natural air or wind phenomenon, including silt storms, tornadoes and similar. However a tree flying though the air would still cause normal damage, at DM discretion. (Kinda struggling here to describe this from a rules perspective but I think you get what I mean. Certainly the easiest thing to do is to just keep the electricity resistance.)
Replace Domain Spells as follows: 1st Entropic Shield; 6th Sirocco

Earth Domain
Replace level 1 domain spell with stone fist

Fire Domain
Unchanged

Sun Domain
Replace Domain Spells as follows:
SU, Replace Sun's Blessing with Flare Burst 1/day for every 2 cleric levels. Nimbus of light no longer deals damage to undead, but allows the cleric to cast other sun spells as thought the sun is visible.
1st - Sun Metal; 4th Shield of Dawn; 5th Mirage Arcana; 6th Blazing Rainbow; 7th is still Sunbeam, but it does same damage undead as normal (4d6 or as follows), and if the sun is visible then it does 50% additional damage. Fungi, Molds, Oozes and Smiles still take 1d6 per caster level up to 20d6 (only the normal +2 levels effective casting level if the sun is visible, and still has -1 casting level if the sun is not visible), and additionally so do any elemental beings from the planes of silt, rain and water. 8th, Still sunburst but does not additional damage to undead and effects silt/rain/water elemental beings as described in Sunbeam above.

Some more feedback on classes (assume as described in the most upto date pdf, and if they are not listed then please consider my 'wish list')

Arcanist/Bloodrager/Sorcerer - I actually would suggest a few options: eliminate this class wholly; make it a flavor of defiler/preserver; make some specific types of sorcerers and make an option for psionic or magical sorcerers depending on the bloodline. For example Yaunti are canon, and always have a psionic version once monsters are revised for psionics. Clearly this is a pretty hard to implement solution, so I kinda side towards removing them completely, since sorcerers do not learn spells really like canon preservers/defilers.

Anti-paladin/Inquisitor/Paladin/Summoner - def would like an elemental flavored version of these classes

Brawler/Hunter/Investigator/Skald/Squashsmuggler/Slammer/Werepriest - seems fine

Monk/Ninja - needs psionics imo

Summoner - elemental version seems appropriate imo

Oracle/Witch - elemental version or preserver/defiler versions seem appropriate

Bard - great job

the races are a great, great improvement on said old version that i won't trash again.

<3 Bod, love how you breeze over a bunch of stuff, granted a lot of it is flavor stuff that has been discussed somewhat already. FWIW, I rename Andropinis 'Balic' in my game and I think that's the easiest thing to do.

Anyrate, I am putting together a list of domains by elemental/paraelemental type and reworking the domains where needed (byyyyyeeee ice spells, protective sun spells, and a bunch of special abilities that don't really work). Here is my working list of domains for the moment. I will rework the special abilities and spells next, hopefully within the next few days.

domains lists by elemental type, drafto numero 1.3

air: air, chaos, freedom, good, language, liberation, luck, protection, revolution, trade, travel, wind

rain: air, chaos, cloud, good, growth, healing, luck, protection, purity, restoration, storms, water, weather

water: community, growth, good, healing, home, plant, protection, purity, restoration, water

silt: catastrophy, chaos, decay, destruction, earth, evil, insanity, madness, trickery, water, undead

earth: caves, community, construct, defense, earth, exploration, home, metal, law, protection, repose, resolve, strength, toil

magma: ash, catastrophy, caves, chaos, destruction, earth, evil, exploration, ferocity, fire, insanity, madness, rage, strength, undead

fire: ash, catastrophy, chaos, destruction, evil, ferocity, fire, insanity, liberation, madness, rage, revolution, smoke

sun: air, ash, chaos, catastrophy, day, decay, destruction, evil, fire, insanity, light, madness, rage, sun, trickery, undead

We are actually using the 3.5 conversion site athas.org for a lot of what we are doing. We know it was never officially a 3.5 setting. I probably won't use all of Bod's rules myself, but this makes it easier than coming up with everything on my own. He also knows the setting better than I do so I get to save myself some reading. :)

It has saved me a lot of reading as well. It spells out how the planes work (same info from the defilers and preservers) in a much more concise and clear way than the canon materials. Generally I really like that conversion and it hits the mark with the 2e canon in most all ways. I didn't notice if there were Paladins in it, but I just wanted to make sure people didn't think there was canon 3.5 DS, and surely not paladins in canon in 2e. :D

What is the Age of Heroes? I guess I mean what year did it begin in? I don't see it mentioned on the Athas.org site.

Sorry in advance if I mess some names up because I am typing this from memory.

The original campaign setting is set in the Age of Kings, where all of the city states are run by a different sorcerer king. (Disclaimer I have never read these books /disclaimer) The Age of Heroes kicks off with Titian and the novel characters kill Kalak, the Sorcerer-King of Tyr, creating the free state of Tyr (this is where the revised campaign setting starts and that is the character creation that includes aarakocra and pterran, neither of which were in the original campaign setting).

This drives most of the metaplot throughout the accessory products, upto I think defilers and preservers, windriders of the cliffs. You can tell because the book designs changed, also if you see reference of the Cerulean Storm that is 'post age of heroes' although technically calendar wise I think it is still the Age of Heroes. Surprise surprise, Cerulean Storm named for a novel, yawn. Raistlin made these guys too much money!!!

There are ages before the Age of Kings as well, notably the Blue Age where only halflings exist and there are great oceans, the Brown Age where a malfunction of the lens turns the ocean brown, and so on. Somewhere in here before the Age of Kings is an Age of Champions or named something like that where Rajaat appoints his champions that kill off the specific races. There were many races that were successfully exterminated by all-human, defiler-champions, until the champions realize that Rajaat planned to give Athas back to the halflings, then they trap him in the black I think.

I did not know spell components were a capital offense, but it does make sense for a world that hate arcane magic to see them as contraband.

Darksun may have said mobs attack casters, but its not logical, unless of course they are so feared that allowing them to live is worse than death. Then I could agree.

Most won't know what spellbeads are, but those who do will.... extort you, report you to the templars/guards, form lynch mob, shun you or similar. For example an enchanter focused preserver might get by for a long time even occasionally casting. They just have to successfully hide their casting and most will think it is mind effecting psionics (until they probe your mind!). The guy hurling fireballs is going to have a harder time.

The reasoning is simple, Athas used to be a fertile planet until defiling destroyed it. There is also misinformation where the Sorcerer-Kings claim to be gods (but are actually just magic users) and that evil magic users destroyed the earth. This lie serves their purposes well as they don't really like competition and fear is always useful for a dictator.

Also, templars from what I have been told are divine casters, and not every caster is appropriate to...

Yes, Templars are divine casters and don't count in the above. They also don't defile unless they are defilers as well. This is pretty common as they are trusted associates of their Sorcerer-King, so the knowledge is freely available if they earn trust. For example, maybe a templar spends a few levels and becomes a level 5 'cleric' of his Sorcerer-Queen. Then after that becomes a 7 defiler. In my ideal rule set, you would metamagic all of your defiler spells (and in fact require defiling to work at all), but the templar spells would have to be metamagiced normally. Sorry I know I kinda mixed them before so that was maybe a bit confusing. It is very common in game for a templar to later become a defiler.

As to having mentors that also does not make sense. If people in other settings can learn on their own once they are level 1, there is no reason why DS should have that restriction,

I don't really want to turn this into that thread where I tell everyone else how I think dnd should be played, but personally I feel every single bit of character development is important. It is kinda like the above discussing mythic classes and feeling the need to disallow a dm from doing something that is clearly a bad idea. If ya'll wanna have stuff that doesn't make any sense at all in your games that is on you. DS is much different in that you can't walk down the street and buy a scroll or find a teacher in the open market. In that way it is definitely different.

All just my opinions, thanks again.

And one last random thought, magic is not overpowered in darksun even if every spell you cast has a free meta magic feat, because all of your spell components are a capital offense, casting a spell will summon a crazed mob with a bloodlust for magic user and once you are known as a powerful/renowned spellcaster the character's whole life and that of their companions are all changed (read they will get the business everywhere).

Also, it is really not appropriate for most spellcasters to be single classed mages. Magical knowledge should be hard to come by, and my opinion is that dms should restrict spell levels without training, dedication, mentors, a stolen spell book or something. Want to be a pure caster? Bow before the head templar and he will happily teach his apprentice as reward for completing his tasks. The veiled alliance gets pitched as the good guys a lot, but each branch is wholly separate of the other branches and many alliance wizards are as bad as the defilers. Well, in my DS flavor at least....

GL all and happy RPing.

First off, really nice thread. I love DS more than any other fantasy setting, have been working on some conversion myself and really appreciate yours and others links to their conversions. Saves me a lot of damn time and lots of good ideas from all imo.

Disclaimer in advance, I still have the original and revised 2nd edition physical copies. That is the version of dark sun that I love and some more recent version (4e coughcough) were TERRIBLE. If you liked 4e ds and your the type to get mad when someone on the internet has a different opinion, it might be a good idea to skip this whole post. In the 4e's vers defense, largely I think the classes were presented well with a few exceptions. :P

I don't recall elementals ever being a big thing in Dark Sun until you were a very high level Cleric or Druid, so the Elemental Channel ability seems to be of incredibly limited utility.

I believe the 2nd ed all clerics get the ability to gate their element from whatever elemental plane at level 7, summon elemental at level 9 and transform into an elemental similar to the dragon transformation after 20 levels cleric and psionicist. Channel Element is very appropriate to me, and a much more powerful effect than it seems on its face. For example, gating water WILL save your life.

The main problem I see with the clerics as presented is that there are simply not enough domains (I had the same problem). I don't think you should have sun listed as on without giving the other paraelementals love (lava, silt, rain and sun). Another problem with the domain is that paizo water domains are almost all cold related, which just doesn't work for ds. Also, I would suggest allowing summoners, but change them to elemental summoners and maybe give them spell access to one domain.

Believe it or not, there is precedence. It's small, I'll grant you, but they were allowed in 3.0/3.5. It's not something I would encourage people to play in a Dark Sun campaign, but I won't want to exclude things just because they might be difficult to play.

Well dude, this is just crazy talk. There is literally no 3rd ed dark sun, only a fan conversion. I would personally go as far as to say everything after the revised edition with the original 'accessory products' (Earth Air Fire and Water; Will and the Way; Dune Trader; Elves of Athas; a few others) should be totally discarded.

And really, the way I would suggest playing it is before all of the age of heroes crap but with the accessories mainly as it (except the sell some books plot lines). The thing is that Athas is not a land of heroes overcoming crap. It is brutal. Death is around every corner. To be a hero is a death sentence. Those who trust will be largely abused until they learn otherwise. I'll give my most honest opinion, the age of heroes was setup to sell novels, not maintain the campaign setting.

I won't go into all of what is wrong with 4e, but basically everything. Tieflings, goblins? Literally goblins were erased as a species in the source material so making them a playable race is like importing gods into the setting and acting like you are playing dark sun. Throw this version completely from consideration.

The mutant halfing crap from the Windriders of JC is just insane. Let's call this supplement what it is, an insane move of the power curve in order to revive a dying product line. There are some really interesting ideas, but as a whole it fails because you CANNOT COMBINE THIS WITH THE OTHER PRODUCTS IN DARK SUN or it. will. destroy. the. game. pahpahperiod.

I guess a lot of this is a history lesson so you can understand some context. There are still some very glaring problems with the source material that DO have to be changed. No matter how else you want to look at it, to me you have to change Andropenis' name, because it destroys the suspension of disbelief that a ruler would allow himself to be called that. (Through the years this setting has some of the worst and most inappropriate names, good lawd.) You have to change something in Draj, because it is far far far too close to real world culture and that just doesn't make any dang sense.

It makes me cringe a bit when you say stuff like 'obv you have to make the magic weapons with magic!' because the only reason that there are +2 magical bone long swords in DS is because mechanically in 2nd edition dnd there was no way to create psionic weapons. The only reason that there aren't +2 psionic bone long swords is bcause they setting wasn't around long enough for them to fix this 'quirk' of the time the game was designed. Psionic weapons are the only thing that make sense in dark sun outside of some very unique items. (or elemental magic at a minimum, but still there would be way more psionic ones)

Another lol example of this kinda stuff, there was a supplement called valley of dust and fire that had what was on the other side of the silt sea that is to the east of the tyr region. When the Cerulean Storm plotline was introduced, something totally different was drawn on the maps across the silt sea. Maybe this is exactly how it was explained in canon, but quite simply a lot of things in the setting don't make sense or were totally changed throughout the different version.

Some random things....

Re: Paladins, there are no reason to have these guys in dark sun. There is literally nothing that they can worship. If you really want to go back to the source in Defilers and Preservers, there is no way from Dark Sun to access the outer planes, where gods are found in the other dnd worlds (I believe this idea was drawn from the novels). If you include them, they should be elemental themed and have the alignment requirement (and all of the I am a goodie twoshoes abilities) removed.

I actually think Ki is very appropriate, but I would theme them towards psionic powers.

A small thing, but Druids in the source could only transform into animals from their guarded lands.

Pls don't take this post as a flame, I really appreciate what you are doing here and the conversions in this thread are definite improvements on some past conversions which I won't shame by name. Thanks a bunch to all and keep em coming.

Happy New Year! Oh wait, that's the wrong one.

Double dice boom!

Definitely in. Since this is on the other side of the continent, I will probably bring a different character this time.

I would like a masterwork Elven Blade but am indifferent on the rest. Surprise me. :D

It is my first PFS.

Ok, I found it. #108735

Can you tell me what you think about the cleric water domain, ala all the ice spells that seem very out of flavor for Dark Sun. Thoughts on fixes for this? (Flotsam, Ocean and Ice subdomains have similar problems.)

Hi, getting an idea for a concept...

Both are fine for me.

I'm in (:

"You'll pay for this!" Zotu takes another furious two-handed swing at the bandit.

Agreed the DMing is good. This is probably sacrilege to say on Paizo, but the map is extraneous imo.

Sorry. Can't say I'm very experienced with roll20.

"The cubs are best with their mother, even a sick mother." Zotu says sternly near the bear.

Derp, yes I think that would be a good idea. Too late to take my action back?

RIP computer. GL Frederik. Killed 2 computers last year, I feel your pain.

Zotu pulls a 50 foot length of rope out of his pack and starts to prepares it to tie Kalkamedes up.

For better or worse, I'm back.

I've found it, never mind. (blush)

Link to the discussion thread? Definitely still interested if you have room. If not, no worries and have fun all.

Unfamiliar with northern plants, Zotu looks at the thicket. He is quite familiar with different species of vines, which perhaps aids his examination.

Done, done and done!!

In. Level 1 Savage Elf Barbarian-like Ranger, fresh off the boat, literally into Varasia.

I tracked that download down. Thanks very much for the info Walter.

I like this module because the character is from the Mwangi (Savage Elf).

Can you clear something up for me? Would a Savage Elf from ARG be allowed? Kinda unclear to me.

"Select your character’s class and race from the choices offered in the Core Rulebook. You may also select aasimar, tengu, or tiefling as your character’s race with access to the proper Additional Resources book. Other races are not legal unless the character’s Chronicle stack includes a race boon. Additional class and race options from resources like the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide, and Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide are generally available with few or no alterations, as well."

Signed up to get on the waitlist. I guess it is unlikely I will make it in, but crossing my fingers anyway. If Savage Elf is not allowed, that will kill my concept unfortunately.

Oh wait, do we have to use a PFS character? Haha, ya that kills my app too.

Sorry, can you link to the exact game? I just get
http://i.imgur.com/KEjjRCS.png?1
on the Warhorn page.

My concept is Rylduan Maerret, a half-drow gladiator. He was raised in the Drow slave pits and only freed himself in the last 7 years. Since coming to the surface, he has become more soft-hearted. He has recently fallen in love with a wood elf wizard and converted to Desna, the god of Travel, Stars and Liberation.

He has come to Ruby Phoenix Tournament on the rumors of his sworn enemy, slavers. He will feel quite conflicted about stepping foot into an arena again. The last time he fought in the pits he was a merciless killer who slew anything that crossed his blade.

Rylduan would be a level 7 Fighter (Mobile Fighter kit), level 3 Stalwart Defender. He fights with a flying blade. He showcases the feats: Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, Combat Patrol, Weapon Specialization Flying Blade, Improved Sidestep, Defensive Power - Halting Blow. His general game plan is to keep melee opponents at a chain's length and protect his squishier allies. His weaknesses are his will saves and sometimes uncontrollable anger, particularly anger directed at Drow and slavers.

Wow at this thread....

Anyone running a game? I'd prefer skype voice or similar, but any game would be awesome. I was working on a Pathfinder conversion but gave up for the time being.

Wouldn't be too opposed to running one if there was interest. I'm not the best at acting but have a solid knowledge of the world. Prefer to play to be totally honest. Only thing I'm really opposed to is 4e, as I hate that system.

Sorry guys, appears my life troubles are not ending any time soon. Hope I can be back and playing in the next month.

Stonefist, sorry for the delays.

Fell by the blow the goblin flies nearly 7 feet into the air. Blood and spit streams out of his mouth as he strikes the ground unconscious.

Where does it say that rage is a free action? (Not that I am complaining) Any protips on which types are free and swift?

Move = standard action or just a 5 ft step?

I'm very new btw too, so don't hesitate to let me know if I am doing something wrong. :)

Someone said something about a ridiculous initiative score? (I even rolled pretty averagely. :D

Sorry, please just PM me if I am MIA...

Also GL sir and do you speak goblin?

A large orc pats Napju'Mme on the back with his only arm. Perhaps the other was torn off training angry goblins. He says to Napju'Mme, "Vja avu. Azu de yquid'vi vji piy'quid vifa."

The goblin beats his chest with his bare hands. He is a large goblin, 3 foot 2 inches tall and about 35 pounds. He has a large head with oversized teeth. They appear sharper and longer than a normal goblins. His body is covered by the finest and perhaps smallest Orcish mithral armor ever crafted, a black cloak and armbands, and boots small enough to fit on his miniature body.

He exclaims to his opponent, "Napju Mmesli!" pointing at himself. "Ne ophic'mo uzo!" pointing to his opponent. He begins letting out a long growl similar to that of a small dog. The sound oscillates as he shakes his head side to side. Clearly becoming angered he takes into his tiny hands a large club, the only apparent weapon on his body, almost as tall as he.

Initiative 19

TY Connor, but I think this is too many PPD for me. GL

Can you explain a little more about
- the world, map regions or anything?
- how are we playing? pbp? something else?
- if pbp, what are your posting expectations

I think that's a no (:

Someone mind posting the arena map again? :P