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Somehow Class archetypes weren't even on my radar as a possibility since so much of the classes comes in the form of feats, I just assumed they weren't needed/likely - glad to hear I'm wrong. Well, I feel like this thread is a win since I know Mark has at least read and responded. Just wanted to voice the desire and have designers take notice.
As I was doing some thinking about a new PC for a 1E game, I realized two big holes in archetype genres in 2E that I really miss, and thought I’d put a post up to see if others felt the same. The first kind, which I don’t think 2E can do, is when it would be an amalgam of the class with some other class feature(s). Archeologist Bard, Phantom Blade Spiritualist, Sanctified Slayer or Sacred Huntmaster Inquisitor, Sacred Fist Warpriest, and so forth . I guess MC Archetypes now fulfill this, but it just doesn’t feel as fun to me. The other thing I miss, and that I think 2E could do really well, is object-oriented archetypes. So here I am thinking of things like the Black Blade Magus, Namekeeper Shaman, Cartomancer Witch – anything that has an interesting object that provides story/RP opportunities. Would love to see such things in future products.
I was just coming here to ask if anyone had started thinking through the changes that 2nd Ed would require for PbP, so thanks so much for this. I hope others will share issues and solutions as we start in earnest.
Question that I hope someone can help with. PbP game, btw. Vetrivides specifically gives the PCs a list of suspect contracts, but in the description earlier about looking at contracts it says they can only ask for specific contracts and then lists the Hellknight and Gellius Thrune. Otherwise they have to look randomly. So I guess I'm confused about how to proceed as they are in the Fastness and want to look at contracts but don't know about the Hellknight yet. They could come around to ask for Thrune's, but text implies they have other names. Just wondering if others ran into this.
Very interested and been waiting for this since I saw you mention it on the product thread! Currently ruminating on several options, but interested in filling the arcane or support slots. How do feel about the magus archetype Jistkan Artificer from Blood of Ancients. I just love the flavor of the golem arm, and would not be doing any crazy min-max magus shenanigans. Loss of the arm would be tied to the character arc, possibly due to either Nidalese torture or shadow infestation. Can imagine this character serving as partner/guard for someone with the Returning Missionary trait, and would probably take Liberator’s Calling or Eyes in the Dark. If no, then probably going more straightforward arcanist or wizard with Shadow Savant trait. My application will probably cut it close the deadline because of the holiday break.
So the PC I was going to bring, LeGuin, has yet to do part II of mysteries under moonlight, having done part 1, and even .5 xp puts him out of 3-7 tier . . . so I need to bring someone else, but wanted to see how the party fleshed out. I'm thinking probably Hector (aka 'The Flame of Liberty'), my Ifrit Swashbuckler/Oracle {Liberty’s Edge} who is 9th lvl. Also have a 9 rogue/mesmerist, but he's better for social heavy scenarios and I have the impression this is not one of those.
How much experience do you have with Pathfinder rules?
How much experience do you have with Roleplaying in general?
Are you familiar with PbP formatting and how to?
Have you ever played Reign of Winter before, even just a little? (please be truthful)
How many PbP games are you currently active in?
Will you be able to check the game at least daily or every other day to post? If not explain and we can work with you.
What type of characters do you like to play? Personality, Class, Themes!
I submit for the GM and party’s consideration Roke Rostlander, male human feyspeaker druid. Hope you don’t mind I haven’t created an alias yet; already suffering from bloat in that regard. Roke Background:
Bastard son of House Lebeda, Roke was nonetheless decently cared for and was fortunate to be taken under the wing of his half-brother (and legitimate child), Zade Lebeda, when he wasn’t busy at the Temple. Roke began forays into the woods in an effort to get away from some less pleasant family business when Zade was away. Intensely curious and a lover of the wild places, Roke was once transported to the First World while exploring the woods near his home. He does not talk about his time there, but came back infused with the powerful life force of the First World, and also constantly harassed by unseen fey pranksters. He maintains his curious spirit and has a proclivity for feylike mischief-making. He is headed to the Stolen Lands as a companion to Zade, hoping to keep him safe in the wilds. Roke’s party niche:
He’s built to be a utility caster in the wilderness and provide a modicum of healing via druid spells. The archetype makes him a more castery druid, and I’m also taking Thorns domain instead of an animal companion (with 6 players, an AC is overkill imo) to further that aim. Because this archetype on as ½ bab advancement, he also won’t be using wild shape to fight, but might be a good scout in animal form eventually.
For the kingdom role, I would imagine Councilor or Grand Diplomat, but depending on how things develop High Priest could be an option too. Roke Stat Block:
Roke Rostlander Male human feyspeaker druid 3 NG Medium humanoid (human) Init +6; Senses Perception +8 -------------------- Defense -------------------- AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +2 Dex) hp 27 (3d8+9) Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +7 -------------------- Offense -------------------- Speed 30 ft. Melee quarterstaff +2 (1d8+1/×3) Druid Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +6) 2nd—barkskin[D], lesser restoration, warp wood (DC 15) 1st—cure light wounds x2, thorn javelin[D] (DC 14), heightened awareness 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, guidance, stabilize Domain: Thorns (subdomain of Plant) -------------------- Statistics -------------------- Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 17 Base Atk +1; CMB +2; CMD 14 Feats: Improved Initiative, TBD Traits: Bastard (campaign), Dangerously Curious, Deft Dodger Skills: Bluff +7, Climb +5, Diplomacy +7, Disguise +7, Handle Animal +8, Heal +6, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (history) +3, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (nobility) +3, Perception +7, Ride +6, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +8, Survival +7, Swim +5, Use Magic Device +9; Languages: Common, Druidic, Elven, Sylvan SQ nature bond (Thorns domain), trackless step, wild empathy +6, woodland stride Gear: wand of cure light wounds (20 charges), acid (2), alchemist's fire (2);
Cruel Thicket (Su): As a standard action, you can cause the ground in a 5-foot-radius burst centered on you to sprout twisting, thorny vines. Any creature moving through it must travel at half speed or take bleed damage equal to half your cleric level; if you activate this ability in an area with numerous plants (grass, weeds, trees, etc.), the area also becomes difficult terrain. These effects last for 1 minute, after which the vines crumble to dust. Creatures able to move through natural undergrowth unhindered ignore the effects of this ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. Trackless Step (Ex): You do not leave a trail as you move through natural surroundings. Wild Empathy +6 (Ex): Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy. Woodland Stride (Ex): Move through undergrowth at normal speed. Feyspeaker Archetype
A feyspeaker loses the ability to spontaneously cast summon nature’s ally spells. She gains the wild shape ability at 6th level and gains all benefits related to wild shape 2 druid levels later than usual. She can never use wild shape to transform into an elemental. This ability alters wild shape and spellcasting. Fey Speech (Ex): At 1st level, a feyspeaker’s words carry a tiny fragment of the otherworldly power of the fey’s voices. She gains Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, and Sense Motive as class skills. A feyspeaker also learns Sylvan as a bonus language. In addition, the feyspeaker gains a number of skill ranks at each level equal to 6 + her Intelligence modifier, instead of 4 + her Intelligence modifier. The feyspeaker’s base attack bonus from her druid levels is equal to half her druid level (much like a sorcerer’s base attack bonus is calculated), rather than the usual druid base attack bonus. This ability replaces nature sense and alters the druid’s base attack bonus, class skills, and skills ranks per level. Wild Mischief (Ex): At 1st level, a feyspeaker can fool an animal into thinking there is food, a potential mate, or a predator nearby. This ability functions just like a Bluff check to deceive a character. To determine the result of the wild mischief check, the feyspeaker rolls 1d20 and adds her druid level and her Charisma modifier. As with Bluff checks, wild mischief checks are modified depending on the believability of the false information. A typical domestic animal is not particularly suspicious of the feyspeaker (no circumstance modifier), whereas wild animals are usually suspicious (–5 penalty on the check). To use wild mischief, the feyspeaker and the animal must be able to study each other, which means they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but as when influencing people, it could take more or less time. A feyspeaker can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check. This ability replaces the druid’s proficiency with medium armor.
note about joint application: Zade and I have played together in person for many years, and thought it would be fun to join a pre-existing group together. So we created our back story in conjunction with one another, but we are more than happy if only one of us gets in (and it should be Zade over me, if you're smart)
Good idea, GM. And thanks for sharing those build rules. I had missed that post. Man, I think I underestimated how much time it was going to take me to digest the new rules. Sounds like we have a bard and ranger so far. Anyone else solidifying a choice? Need to read much more, but currently considering cleric, druid or sorcerer. If others chime in, I can be flexible so we have a diverse party. Also, does anyone know if/when pregens are being released? I feel like I read that they would exist for at least 1st and 5th. Just wondering as it would be interesting to take a look at those builds.
I'm really torn on resonance. I see all that it accomplishes mechanically, but it is annoying to have another thing to track when part of the mission of PF2 was streamlining some of the janky bits. What I do like about it, and the bits we've heard about the sources of magic (don't remember which blog, but the parts about mental vs spirit vs. will, etc) is that it implies a little more clarity about in-world magic and how it functions. One of my favorite things about different fantasy books is how they construct and explain the magic system. In PF it is so generic, and I'd love to see a little more clarity. I do realize it is generic b/c of the variety of styles it is trying to emulate. Share concerns about the generic nature of archetypes. I'm not sure why when given more choices it feels less fun, but I really love archetypes that provide cool story hooks/RP opportunities that also have fun mechanical bits (black blade magus, for instance). Or that swap class abilties around, like the relic hunter inquisitor which trades judgment and bane for occultist relics. It does make sense to have cross-class archetypes, the examples just don't excite me.
Here's my submission, Teodorn Psychic (Mindtech Discipline)/VMC Sorceror (nanite bloodline) I hope you'll forgive me for not making an alias yet. Background:
Teodorn was born into a nomadic Kellid tribe, but he never felt like he belonged. From an early age his presence unsettled the tribes’ animals. While his parents were caring, he was not ever fully accepted by his extended kin and clan, and they avoided his company when they could. Perhaps because of this, Teodorn would go on long rangings. He began to seek out the forbidden places of metal buried in the ground, where his clan shaman said iron fiends lived. He overcame this superstition and became an amateur archeologist, trying to understand these strange sites. He seemed to find them easily, and he realized he could hear the machines calling to him. Teodorn knew some answers might lie in the settlements his clan would visit to trade with on their seasonal route. He was always particularly keen on Torch, from which a purple beam of light shot into the sky. Overheard whispers let him know the people in the town used the light to craft metal with great skill. Here he saw hypocrisy – these wonders were condemned, but his clan would trade for the weapons and tools forged by this purple light. This made Teodorn bolder in his explorations, and shortly after his clan’s departure from Torch in his 16th year, Teodorn went on a ranging, leaving his sheep unattended again. Unfortunately for him, he encountered what seemed a malevolent force as he explored an iron cave. He fell down shaft, breaking his ankle. He cried out, and in response an angry mist rose from a bank of lights. They swarmed around his ankle, and he could hear in his mind them saying “Repair! Repair!” – and indeed his ankle was healed. But then the swarmed moved up his body, rending and reshaping his flesh. When the mist retreated, he had lost much blood, and he no longer looked the same – his face and body were not the one he was born into. Wiping away dust from a reflective panel, Teodorn did not recognize the face that stared back at him. He managed to get back to his clan’s encampment, confused and disheveled. Not recognizing this wounded young man, the clan warriors harried him with blows until he fled. Not knowing where to go and almost delirious from the preceding events, Teo saw the purple beam on the horizon. He walked towards it, and collapsed shortly outside the town walls. He was found by an apprentice of Khonnir Baine, and he was nursed back to health. Baine recognized, and later explained to Teo, that he had encountered a malfunctioning medical nanite swarm, and part of it was still inside Teo. Whether out of kindness or professional curiosity about Teo’s tale about being able to talk to the machines, Khonnir took Teodorn as an apprentice. It’s been 3 years since that happened, and Teo has settled into life helping Khonnir with his work while mastering his own abilities.
Personality:
Teodorn is curious and warm to those he knows. Subconsciously, he wants a “clan” of his own to replace the one he was born into. That said, Teo is more distant with new people until they have earned his trust, and he feels they won’t judge him for his connection to the machines. He believes that the hidden wonders of Numeria could be a great boon to the common people, and he resents the Technic League’s control and suppression. Teodorn Stat Block/Build:
Teodorn Male human (Kellid) psychic 1 (VMC sorcerer, nanite bloodline) NG Medium humanoid (human) Init +1; Senses Perception +5 ————— Defense ————— AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10 (+1 Dex) hp 8 (1d6+2) Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3 ————— Offense ————— Speed 30 ft. Special Attacks phrenic amplification (overpowering mind), phrenic pool (2 point) Psychic Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +4) 1st (4/day)—technomancy, color spray (DC 15), enlarge person (DC 15) 0 (at will)—detect magic, light, stabilize, telekinetic projectile Psychic Discipline: Mindtech ————— Statistics ————— Str 8, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 10 Base Atk: +0; CMB -1; CMD 10 Feats: Skill Focus (Knowledge [engineering]), Technologist Traits clever word play (social, Int to Diplo), local ties (campaign) Skills Diplomacy +4, Disable Device +6, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (engineering) +10, Knowledge (local) +7, Knowledge (nature) +7, Linguistics +7, Perception +5, Spellcraft +7 (used background skills on linguistics and engineering) Languages: Androffan, Common, Dwarven, Elven, Hallit, Orc SQ bloodline (nanite) Other Gear 120 gp – need to go shopping! ————— Special Abilities ————— Overpowering Mind (Ex) 2 pool: increase Will save DC of linked mind-affecting spell by +1. Phrenic Pool (2/day) (Su) Pool of points you can use to modify psychic spells as they're cast. Technologist You are familiar with the basic mechanics of technology.
Possible progression and alterations: If I can take Technomancer with a psychic spellcaster (hoping mindtech discipline + nanite bloodline makes that a reasonable thing), then I’d switch to that prestige class at level 7 or 8. Alternating, I could create Teodorn as a nanite sorcerer. I’d also be happy to reconfigure him into an archeologist bard (or the like) if the party needs more of a face.
Character Inspirations:
I’m taking a fair amount of inspiration from Horizon Zero Dawn’s Sylens and Banuk Shaman who speak to the “spirits” of the machines. Also, the little boy from ‘Heroes’ who could talk to machines. about me: Thought it might help to know a little about me. I have a flexible work schedule, so I can reliably post daily, often more than once. I’m a father, and that has cut into my real world game time, and PbP seems like a great way to play and fill that void. That said, I’m still new to the format, having just started in March with the Flaxseed Outpost Con. Here’s a link to one of my games that might give a sense of me as a player. I’m Merrick in this game: http://paizo.com/campaigns/Outpost2018GMZoombasBeaconBelow/gameplay&pag e=1
As my first-ever PbP games head toward their conclusion, I wanted to express my appreciation for this community. I've been playing in home games and PFS for many years, and was hesitant to try PbP, but I'm very glad I took the plunge. In particular, shout outs to GM Bearington and GM Zoomba for helping me learn the ropes, to my fellow Pathfinders in both games, and to the organizers of Outpost and Online Play in general. I'm in awe of the supportive and good-natured vibe of Flaxseed Lodge that I see here on the boards. Not many places like this on the internet these days. I look forward to more PbP in the future.
Blade-bound - seems like this could be a generic archetype open to many classes, although it certainly was particularly good for magus, and hence maybe out of bounds Actually, I'm a fan of archetypes that have unique items that bring RP and flavor opportunities (and as others have mentioned, could play with resonance mechanic): Cartomancer witch, namekeeper shaman and living grimoire inquisitor are other examples; could be cross class if PF2 goes the SF route of generic archetypes (I'm hoping there are both generic and class specific options) Alchemist: Grenadier [made it feel more martial and connected to bomb side of the class, but honestly there are so many ways to go with the alchemist it's hard to choose; this is the one I've played] Any Bard archetype that means I'm not a performer. I'll jump on the Archeologist and Arcane Duelist bandwagons I've seen. Eldritch Scoundrel: anything that's gets me more "6th lvl caster" classes out of CRB classes. Really going to miss being able to make inquisitors, magi, and occultists.
I don't care about my stars, or any special boons (I mean there have definitely been rewards in the PF1 campaign, so I don't know that special boons are needed) but I really don't understand why the stars need to be wiped out. If so much is staying the same narratively (we're all still Pathfinders based out of lodges right?) then I don't see why those who have stars can't keep them, while allowing new folks to earn them in PF2. It seems odd that the one of the few unilateral, not up for discussion aspects of the new blog was that stars WILL be wiped out (well, ok, they still exist, but don't mean anything). Again, take my stars, 2 ain't that impressive, but for my friends who keep our local lodge alive with their GMing, it feels like an insult, especially those who are deep into their 4th.
Mechanical Question:
Walter’s guide to the magus, in talking about amulets of NA, mentions: “Your natural armor bonus to AC does not stack with other enhancement bonuses to natural armor, but does stack with raw natural armor, does not apply to touch AC.”
Story Question:
Thanks for any assistance.
I don't know, probably dex, but I hope you report back about how your plan goes! Also, given what JJ said, doesn't that mean it would be best to take 4 lvls in monk in order get both ki pools? Maybe it's even worth it to go Monk 4/Pally2? What do people think?
Been enjoying this thread, since I am considering building a Champion myself for PFS. I've been wrestling with Monk4/Paladin1 vs. Monk3/Paladin2. It seemed ki pool and unarmed advancement vs. divine grace and LoH. This makes me think 4/1 is the way to go, or maybe even going 4/2, and waiting an extra lvl of the PrC. My only question is that the Champion of I text reads, "At 2nd level, a champion of Irori gains a ki pool equal to 1/2 his class level + his Wisdom modifier; this functions like the monk ability of the same name, and levels in this class stack with levels in other classes that grant a ki pool." So they both stack and yet you have two pools? That doesn't make sense to me.
Thanks Gauss. The text of the trait reads, "Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action." So I was concentrating on the bolded aspect, hoping carry = hold, as Gauss bolded. It makes sense that 5 lb. is beyond "small." I was thinking of this for a PFS character, so sadly, no wiggle room from the GM.
Playing with creating a Tiefling Magus, and was wondering if I took the prehensile tail alternate racial trait if it could be used to activate a metamagic rod? If not, what about if I took the additional "Grasping Tail" feat? I guess I don't fully understand how a metamagic rod gets "used" when casting the spell. Does it just need to be held, or waved around in a particular way, in which case the tail isn't up to the task? Perhaps my search-fu is weak, but I could only find discussion of Tiefling tails and not being able to use them to wield weapons.
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